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post #3031 of 3058 Old 12-03-2014, 11:34 AM
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@MrEmoto
I would love to see the Media ID for the OQ BD-R DL. If you are using ImgBurn to make your burns you can get that info directly off the disk properties screen. I doubt it will be Philips but I'm curious if it is the same as the OQ 6X BD-R.

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post #3032 of 3058 Old 12-03-2014, 01:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelson View Post
@MrEmoto
I would love to see the Media ID for the OQ BD-R DL. If you are using ImgBurn to make your burns you can get that info directly off the disk properties screen. I doubt it will be Philips but I'm curious if it is the same as the OQ 6X BD-R.
Oh yes, forgot to address that. I will take a look when I am home and see what I can see and post back here. The biggest challenge will be for me to remember to do it.
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post #3033 of 3058 Old 12-04-2014, 05:03 AM
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Newegg has HP 16X DVD-R 50 packs on sale for $5.99 with 99¢ shipping. The advertisement that I saw this in said the promo codes expire 12/10. This item doesn't need a code so I'm not sure when this offer expires. I had to be logged in to my Newegg account to see the sale price.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817292122
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post #3034 of 3058 Old 12-04-2014, 06:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelson View Post
@MrEmoto
I would love to see the Media ID for the OQ BD-R DL. If you are using ImgBurn to make your burns you can get that info directly off the disk properties screen. I doubt it will be Philips but I'm curious if it is the same as the OQ 6X BD-R.
I popped one into the drive this morning and ImgBurn said this:

HL-DT-ST BD-RE BH12LS35 1.00 (SATA)
Current Profile: BD-R

Disc Information:
Status: Empty
State of Last Session: Empty
Erasable: No
Free Sectors: 24,438,784
Free Space: 50,050,629,632 bytes
Free Time: 5430:52:34 (MM:SS:FF)
Next Writable Address: 0
MID: RITEK-DR3-000
Supported Write Speeds: 2x, 4x, 6x

Disc Definition Structure:
Certified: No
Scanned: No
Manufacturers Name: HL-DT-ST
Additional ID: BD-RE BH12LS35
Serial Number: K9AB1GE1832

BD Disc Information (L0):
Disc ID: RITEK-DR3-000
Disc Type: BD-R
Disc Size: 120mm
Disc Class: 0
Disc Version: 1
Number of Layers: 2
Layer Type: Writable
DVD Layer Present: No
CD Layer Present: No
Channel Bit Length: 74.50nm (25GB Per Layer) Push-Pull Polarity: Positive Recorded Mark Polarity: HTL BCA Present: Yes Maximum Transfer Rate: Not Specified First PAA of Data Zone: 131,072 Last PAA of Data Zone: 1,658,494

BD Disc Information (L1):
Disc ID: RITEK-DR3-000
Disc Type: BD-R
Disc Size: 120mm
Disc Class: 0
Disc Version: 1
Number of Layers: 2
Layer Type: Writable
DVD Layer Present: No
CD Layer Present: No
Channel Bit Length: 74.50nm (25GB Per Layer) Push-Pull Polarity: Positive Recorded Mark Polarity: HTL BCA Present: Yes Maximum Transfer Rate: Not Specified First PAA of Data Zone: 2,535,808 Last PAA of Data Zone: 4,063,230

Format Capacities:
DT: 0x01 - NB: 24438784 (0x0174E800) - TDP: 413696
FT: 0x00 - NB: 23652352 (0x0168E800) - TDP: 24576
FT: 0x32 - NB: 23652352 (0x0168E800) - TDP: 24576
FT: 0x32 - NB: 11200512 (0x00AAE800) - TDP: 413696
FT: 0x32 - NB: 24307712 (0x0172E800) - TDP: 4096

Performance (Write Speed):
Descriptor 1...
-> B0: 0x02, B1: 0x00, B2: 0x00, B3: 0x00
-> EL: 24438783 (0x0174E7FF)
-> RS: 28,890 KB/s (6.4x) - WS: 8,991 KB/s (2x)
Descriptor 2...
-> B0: 0x02, B1: 0x00, B2: 0x00, B3: 0x00
-> EL: 24438783 (0x0174E7FF)
-> RS: 28,890 KB/s (6.4x) - WS: 17,982 KB/s (4x)
Descriptor 3...
-> B0: 0x02, B1: 0x00, B2: 0x00, B3: 0x00
-> EL: 24438783 (0x0174E7FF)
-> RS: 28,890 KB/s (6.4x) - WS: 26,973 KB/s (6x)
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post #3035 of 3058 Old 12-04-2014, 06:48 AM
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@MrEmoto
Hey, thanks a lot.
Ritek -- wow. I fully expected to see some unrecognizable chinese media code like on the OQ 6X BD-R. Ritek (a.k.a. RiData) is an established upper mid-tier supplier who sells under their RiData name and also supplies media to other brands -- for all I know the OQ 4X BD-R with the Philips media ID could be sourced by Ritek.

If they ever drop to $1 each I'll give a spindle a try -- given they are Ritek I would even bite on $1.50/disk. But based on the price history of DVD-R vs. DVD-DL, I doubt that will ever happen. DL media just never seems to get significant traction and volume that would bring the price down.

Question: are you burning at 6X or 4X. If burning at 6X, does the burn start slow and ramp up to 6X. If burning at 4X, does the burn start out at 4X and hold steady through the burn.

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post #3036 of 3058 Old 12-04-2014, 06:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelson View Post
@MrEmoto
Hey, thanks a lot.
Ritek -- wow. I fully expected to see some unrecognizable chinese media code like on the OQ 6X BD-R. Ritek (a.k.a. RiData) is an established upper mid-tier supplier who sells under their RiData name and also supplies media to other brands -- for all I know the OQ 4X BD-R with the Philips media ID could be sourced by Ritek.

If they ever drop to $1 each I'll give a spindle a try -- given they are Ritek I would even bite on $1.50/disk. But based on the price history of DVD-R vs. DVD-DL, I doubt that will ever happen. DL media just never seems to get significant traction and volume that would bring the price down.
No worries. Glad you voiced an opinion on Ritek. I had heard the name but had not used them. Googling around gave me quite a few instances of people who claimed to have very bad results, both in burning/playing and in longevity. So, not sure what to think.
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post #3037 of 3058 Old 12-04-2014, 09:09 AM
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guys,

Please help me out in explaining what this means:
Free Time: 5430:52:34 (MM:SS:FF)

5430 minutes = 90+ hours; how do they get to this figure?

I record my sporting events via homerun prime and then edit in videoredo; I save in MPEG2-M2TS....(part of the reason is that the save only takes 5-6 minutes, other options might take an hour or more to save) - I then title and chapter mark via AVCHD and burn via ImgBurn.

Going from my extrapolation, I should be able to get approximately 3:30 of material on a 25GB disc, are there other codecs that I should be using that would be better /allow for more capacity?

Any info you guys have is always appreciated

thank you
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post #3038 of 3058 Old 12-04-2014, 09:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrEmoto View Post
No worries. Glad you voiced an opinion on Ritek. I had heard the name but had not used them. Googling around gave me quite a few instances of people who claimed to have very bad results, both in burning/playing and in longevity. So, not sure what to think.
I have properly stored Ritek DVD-R that were burned 10 yr ago that are still fine. IMHO, the quality of the burner is 90% of the equation. I have always burned with LG PC burners -- even when I was using a Panasonic DVDR I would only use the deck to burn off to RAM so I could sneaker-net the disk to my PC for editing and burning. PC burners are cheap. An LG WH16NS40 Super Multi Blue Internal SATA 16x Blu-ray Disc Rewriter runs only $55. So, I don't let them get old and replace the heavily used ones every 2-3 yr.

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post #3039 of 3058 Old 12-04-2014, 10:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelson View Post
I have properly stored Ritek DVD-R that were burned 10 yr ago that are still fine. IMHO, the quality of the burner is 90% of the equation. I have always burned with LG PC burners -- even when I was using a Panasonic DVDR I would only use the deck to burn off to RAM so I could sneaker-net the disk to my PC for editing and burning. PC burners are cheap. An LG WH16NS40 Super Multi Blue Internal SATA 16x Blu-ray Disc Rewriter runs only $55. So, I don't let them get old and replace the heavily used ones every 2-3 yr.
Ten years? That's a relief!
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post #3040 of 3058 Old 12-04-2014, 10:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billmich View Post
Please help me out in explaining what this means:
Free Time: 5430:52:34 (MM:SS:FF)

5430 minutes = 90+ hours; how do they get to this figure?
Damn if I know. It never made sense to me to even have that number let alone try to figure out what it means. Play time capacity of the disk depends on the bitrate of the content, so the playtime of a content file could be as long or short as a piece of string. I deal in bytes.

Quote:
I record my sporting events via homerun prime and then edit in videoredo; I save in MPEG2-M2TS....(part of the reason is that the save only takes 5-6 minutes, other options might take an hour or more to save) - I then title and chapter mark via AVCHD and burn via ImgBurn.

Going from my extrapolation, I should be able to get approximately 3:30 of material on a 25GB disc, are there other codecs that I should be using that would be better /allow for more capacity?
Yes, I remember you like to use MultiAVCHD to author your disks with menus, etc -- you have my admiration. Saving the edits in an .m2ts container is the right choice because that is the native container for BDMV -- MultiAVCHD uses it directly and doesn't have to waste time remuxing it. I leave all my HDTV captures as MPEG-2. For HDTV recordings from any channel except ABC, your estimate of 3.5hr on a BD-R is pretty much right on if you leave it as MPEG-2.

The alternative is to use VRD to re-code to H.264. The default VRD setting for MPEG-2 --> H.264 is VBR and decrease the bitrate by 30% so you come out with a file that is 70% the size of the original. I played a lot with this and found that this default is very close to the original MPEG-2 quality, but only if you use 2-pass encoding in VRD -- 1-pass encoding just plain sucked for PQ and had audio synch issues. On my i7 with 12GB RAM and using all the cores it takes a couple hours to re-code a 42 minute show (1hr episode minus the commercials). I have a 65" Panasonic plasma with dead blacks. The MPEG-2 bitrate of HDTV is already too low to render dark scenes without blotchy blacks -- if I shrink the recording more than the default 30% with H.264 the blotchy blacks become even more noticeable and I don't like the PQ at all. All in all, for a meager 30% savings I don't feel it is worth my time and effort so I don't bother with re-coding and just leave things as MPEG-2 the way they were broadcast.

You might feel differently. If you do, start with the default setting and make sure you edit the "H.264 - M2TS" save profile in VRD for 2-pass encoding. Then you just save your edited file in VRD as "H.264 - M2TS" filetype. You will need to experiment to see how much further you can go with compression and still consider the result to be acceptable. It will also help to get acquainted with the VRD batch utility -- I use it all the time to batch saves after a big editing session. And of course, H.264-M2TS is native BDMV format so MultiAVCHD will use it directly without having to remux.

- kelson h

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post #3041 of 3058 Old 12-04-2014, 11:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrEmoto View Post
Ten years? That's a relief!
Keep in mind that proper storage for me is: in sleeves, stored vertical in a covered disk box, no light and no extremes of temperature. Also, I don't play the physical disks. All the content that I want ready access to is stored on HDD's for network streaming and the physical disks are the backups to the HDD's. Hence the disks are kept pristine.

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post #3042 of 3058 Old 12-04-2014, 11:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelson View Post
Keep in mind that proper storage for me is: in sleeves, stored vertical in a covered disk box, no light and no extremes of temperature. Also, I don't play the physical disks. All the content that I want ready access to is stored on HDD's for network streaming and the physical disks are the backups to the HDD's. Hence the disks are kept pristine.
Hmm. Interesting info. Thanks. I may have to re-evaluate my "disks stacked randomly everywhere" approach.

I suppose I should ask, is there a thread somewhere you would suggest to learn the basics for that kind of streaming for viewing?

Last edited by MrEmoto; 12-04-2014 at 11:11 AM.
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post #3043 of 3058 Old 12-04-2014, 11:43 AM
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I suppose I should ask, is there a thread somewhere you would suggest to learn the basics for that kind of streaming for viewing?
This forum is dedicated to that topic.
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post #3044 of 3058 Old 12-04-2014, 02:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelson View Post
Damn if I know. It never made sense to me to even have that number let alone try to figure out what it means. Play time capacity of the disk depends on the bitrate of the content, so the playtime of a content file could be as long or short as a piece of string. I deal in bytes.



On my i7 with 12GB RAM and using all the cores it takes a couple hours to re-code a 42 minute show (1hr episode minus the commercials). I have a 65" Panasonic plasma with dead blacks. .
I am not waiting 4-5 hours for any type of recoding...that's insane. I have the question out in the VRD forum if they can assist with a recode that is close in time to MPEG-2 M2TS.(it takes about 6 minutes for a 2:30 edited football game)

Tell me more about what all this 1-pass and 2-pass stuff means.
If I have a WTV file, will it take a lot longer to save it to h.264 M2TS than it currently takes me to save?

I have the Panasonic 65" VT 50, what model screen do you have?

Last edited by billmich; 12-04-2014 at 02:22 PM.
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post #3045 of 3058 Old 12-04-2014, 04:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billmich View Post
I am not waiting 4-5 hours for any type of recoding...that's insane. I have the question out in the VRD forum if they can assist with a recode that is close in time to MPEG-2 M2TS.(it takes about 6 minutes for a 2:30 edited football game)

Tell me more about what all this 1-pass and 2-pass stuff means.
If I have a WTV file, will it take a lot longer to save it to h.264 M2TS than it currently takes me to save?

I have the Panasonic 65" VT 50, what model screen do you have?
We are getting way off topic here, so briefly:
  • Re-coding always takes a long time. It is one of the most CPU intensive tasks the home user can run. The better the quality you want, the longer it takes.
  • 2-pass runs a first pass to analyze the video for optimum re-coding then does the re-code in pass 2.
  • Panasonic 65VT60

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post #3046 of 3058 Old 12-05-2014, 08:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelson View Post
We are getting way off topic here, so briefly:
  • Panasonic 65VT60
Probably the best plasma ever made

I will PM you with further questions I have and get this thread back on topic
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post #3047 of 3058 Old 12-05-2014, 10:33 AM
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Probably the best plasma ever made
Yes, it has the Kuro technology. That's why I bought it last year as soon as Panasonic made it official that it would be their last plasma and they were done. It took the place of my 50" Panasonic PZ-85 plasma from 2008.

Next panel will be 80" 4K OLED in 5 yr.
LCD = never

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post #3048 of 3058 Old 12-11-2014, 06:45 AM
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Somewhat off-topic, but to burn a back-up of one of my 3D blu-ray movies, is that capability dependent on the hardware at all, or only on the software?

Panasonic VIERA TC-P55ST30 55-Inch 1080p 3D Plasma HDTV TV
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Panasonic DMP-BDT215 3D Blu-ray Disc Player
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post #3049 of 3058 Old 12-11-2014, 09:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrEmoto View Post
Somewhat off-topic, but to burn a back-up of one of my 3D blu-ray movies, is that capability dependent on the hardware at all, or only on the software?
Do you mean a commercial BluRay?
If you do, go here Ripping Blu-Rays II

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post #3050 of 3058 Old 12-11-2014, 09:23 AM
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post #3051 of 3058 Old 12-11-2014, 02:52 PM
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to update comment or feedback i made about the Optical Quantum 6X BD-R discs some time back, where i had dismal failure rate (6 out of 6 failing to verify w/ImgBurn) burning the discs on an LG laptop BD writer - this past weekend i finished up a new computer build (my first) and i used a LG WH14NS40 5.25" rewriter, and have burnt 9 OQ BD-R disks and all verified and played fine. All were burnt at 4X but that's the same speed i used on the verbatims earlier on the laptop burner.

It looks like kelson was right that it was the burner but it still doesn't make sense why 6 out 6 Verbatim BD-R disks would burn and verify fine, and the exact opposite result with the OQ discs.

but man did my processing time come down with the new computer

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post #3052 of 3058 Old 12-11-2014, 03:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by larryccf View Post

It looks like kelson was right that it was the burner but it still doesn't make sense why 6 out 6 Verbatim BD-R disks would burn and verify fine, and the exact opposite result with the OQ discs.
I also get lots of failed burns using cheaper DL blanks using my laptop and 1 HP desktop and 1 Dell with the stock burners, using a older Compaq desktop or a older LG external burner I get no failures with the same DVDs. Note Verbatims burn and verify just fine on all burners.
So like you and kelson I believe a burn is almost more dependent on the burner than blanks but high quality blank may burn on most any burner.
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post #3053 of 3058 Old 12-11-2014, 03:54 PM
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it seems illogical though - i've been trying to wrap my brain about what it could be, and with no knowledge of disk composition other than the basic, i'm wondering if it's cheaper or inconsistent dye material on the lower cost disks and the verbatims having more consistent dye material, - that coupled with a stronger laser (maybe) in the 5.25" burner ??? who knows

and for the record, that LG laptop bd burner cost about $23 more than the 5.25" burner, so it's not a case of a cheap burner

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post #3054 of 3058 Old 12-15-2014, 01:57 PM
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Verbatim 4.7 GB up to 16x Branded Recordable Disc DVD-R 100-Disc FFP 97460 on sale at Amazon for $15.99. Lowest I seen since last Dec 2013 at ($16.99). Just purchased 3 spindles.





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post #3055 of 3058 Old Yesterday, 11:32 AM
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Thanks, couldn't resist, got one and may go back for another. And here I was trying to tell myself I don't need to burn any more DVDs.
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post #3056 of 3058 Old Yesterday, 01:58 PM
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Yes it's a great deal on very good media, unfortunately I'm busting at the seams for blanks, I just DON'T need anymore
BTW they're still $15.99!
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post #3057 of 3058 Old Today, 10:00 AM
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Originally Posted by jjeff View Post
Yes it's a great deal on very good media, unfortunately I'm busting at the seams for blanks, I just DON'T need anymore
BTW they're still $15.99!
My wife likes to order little stuff from Amazon that is usually in the $20 range. I've fallen into the bad habit of tacking on a Spindle of OQ BD-R to the order to bring the total above $35 for free shipping. I just noticed that I'm now bursting at the seams with BD-R blanks.

- kelson h

The bitterness of poor quality lasts long after the sweetness of the low price is forgotten . . . life is too short to drink bad wine

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjeff View Post
Yes it's a great deal on very good media, unfortunately I'm busting at the seams for blanks, I just DON'T need anymore
BTW they're still $15.99!
Now $20.04
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