List DVD Recorders with Component Input - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 144 Old 12-26-2006, 11:43 AM - Thread Starter
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List of DVD Recorders with Component Inputs (Component, not composite)

1) Polaroid 2001G (80gb HDD)
2) Magnavox MRV700 combo DVD + VHS recorder. AVS post
3a) Philips DVDR 70/72/75/80, VR615, DVDR3400
3b) Philips HDRW 720 (80gb HDD (HardDiskDrive))
4) Sony RDR-HX900 (160gb HDD)
5) Magnavox MRV660, MRV640
*) .............


Since most DVD recorders do not have Component Input, here is a partial list of DVD recorders Without Component Input:

1) All from Panasonic
2) All from Pioneer
3) ...............


For details on HighDef (HD) recording (current DVD recorders cannot do it), see the sticky thread at the top of the forum list.


Benefits of Component Input on DVD Recorders
1) Ability to record directly from a Component source
2) Some cable/satellite STB (boxes) output 16:9 content with black bars (letterboxing) via S-video. This is an issue if you want to record full-frame 16:9 without the black bars. Generally cable/satellite STBs can be configured to output 16:9 without letterboxing via the Component Output. Thus Component Input on a DVD recorder may allow you to record full-frame 16:9 without black bars. This is 16:9 Standard definition 480i, not high-def. For more details, please check with each DVD recorders manual/user-threads and each cable/satellite STB's manual/forum. (All this is independent from the Widescreen flag which only affects how 16:9 content is displayed on a 4:3 TV).


*** Please make any additions, corrections, rephrasings, as necessary...

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post #2 of 144 Old 12-26-2006, 01:58 PM
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I think this is a very short list. Especially for current models. Some Sony models have been mentioned. I posted this previously about the Magnavox MRV700:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&&#post9055786
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post #3 of 144 Old 12-26-2006, 02:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nextoo View Post

I think this is a very short list. Especially for current models. Some Sony models have been mentioned. I posted this previously about the Magnavox MRV700:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&&#post9055786

Thanks! I'll update it!

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post #4 of 144 Old 12-26-2006, 02:34 PM
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Here's a long thread that lists the Sonys (mentioned on this board in posts) and a couple Philips models. The last post in the thread is incorrect. It should say just Sony and Toshiba for the WS flag - Pioneer was mentioned incorrectly.

http://forum.ecoustics.com/bbs/messages/2/47191.html
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post #5 of 144 Old 01-02-2007, 07:46 PM
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Philips DVDR3400 has component input also has HDMI output. On sale at best buy this week.
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post #6 of 144 Old 01-03-2007, 09:19 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blueoval4ever View Post

Philips DVDR3400 has component input also has HDMI output. On sale at best buy this week.

Thanks! I added to the list!

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post #7 of 144 Old 01-04-2007, 10:32 AM
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Magnavox MRV660
Magnavox MRV640

These are not combo machines and as a result are fairly small so they may fit nicely into an entertainment system as a component to s-video converter.

I just picked up a MRV660 for $.99 plus shipping on ebay so they can be a bargain as well. Was "as is" but should be an easy fix based on the description. Sounds like the parental controls are set at max which is blocking disc playing. Even if the dvd drive has problems it is a cheap converter. I'll see.
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post #8 of 144 Old 01-04-2007, 11:08 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nextoo View Post

Magnavox MRV660
Magnavox MRV640

These are not combo machines and as a result are fairly small so they may fit nicely into an entertainment system as a component to s-video converter.

I just picked up a MRV660 for $.99 plus shipping on ebay so they can be a bargain as well. Was "as is" but should be an easy fix based on the description. Sounds like the parental controls are set at max which is blocking disc playing. Even if the dvd drive has problems it is a cheap converter. I'll see.

Can't argue with that price! :-)

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post #9 of 144 Old 01-05-2007, 03:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ncaahoops View Post

List of DVD Recorders with Component Inputs (Component, not composite)

1) Polaroid 2001G
2) Magnavox MRV700 combo recorder. AVS post
3) Philips DVDR 70/72/75/80, HDRW 720, DVR615, DVDR3400
4) Sony RDR-HX900
5) Magnavox MRV660, MRV640

Do any of these have an internal hard drive?
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post #10 of 144 Old 01-05-2007, 05:03 AM
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Quote:


I just picked up a MRV660 for $.99 plus shipping on ebay so they can be a bargain as well. Was "as is" but should be an easy fix based on the description.

I absolutely refuse to buy an item off of ebay where the shipping is more that the price I bid for the item.

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post #11 of 144 Old 01-05-2007, 05:07 AM
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Originally Posted by vferrari View Post

I absolutely refuse to buy an item off of ebay where the shipping is more that the price I bid for the item.

Then bid the price up to more than the cost of shipping if it makes you feel better.
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post #12 of 144 Old 01-05-2007, 10:01 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by vferrari View Post

I absolutely refuse to buy an item off of ebay where the shipping is more that the price I bid for the item.

Well this is partially because eBay "taxes" the item price with eBay fees, but does not tax the shipping fees. So if an honest seller moved hers/his costs in the item price and offered free/discounted shipping, they would have to raise the item price by the % of the eBay fees, plus the percentage of the said increase, etc, etc LOL. But then you have people obnoxiously charging $7 S&H for one music CD via First Class or Media mail.

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post #13 of 144 Old 01-05-2007, 10:04 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Icon Master View Post

Do any of these have an internal hard drive?

The Sony HX-900 has a 160gb HDD.
The Philips HDRW 720 has an 80gb HDD.
The Polaroid has a 80gb HDD

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post #14 of 144 Old 01-05-2007, 07:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blueoval4ever View Post

Philips DVDR3400 has component input also has HDMI output. On sale at best buy this week.

I'm pretty sure this model does NOT have a component input. At least it says it doesn't on Best Buy website and on Cnet. It does have HMDI out though.
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post #15 of 144 Old 01-05-2007, 07:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Beaumaloe View Post

I'm pretty sure this model does NOT have a component input. At least it says it doesn't on Best Buy website and on Cnet. It does have HMDI out though.

If this is the case then strike it off the list.

Unless anybody else can add a different opinion. Thanks!
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post #16 of 144 Old 01-05-2007, 11:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nextoo View Post

If this is the case then strike it off the list.

Unless anybody else can add a different opinion. Thanks!

That is actually the only feature this POS has going for it. I had one for a few hours (before I returned it) and can verify that it does have a component input and will properly accept and record 16:9 material. It also has an HDMI output, but does not upconvert. Will only output 480i, 480p, 576i, and 576p via HDMI.
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post #17 of 144 Old 01-10-2007, 02:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nextoo View Post

Magnavox MRV660
Magnavox MRV640

These are not combo machines and as a result are fairly small so they may fit nicely into an entertainment system as a component to s-video converter.

I just picked up a MRV660 for $.99 plus shipping on ebay so they can be a bargain as well. Was "as is" but should be an easy fix based on the description. Sounds like the parental controls are set at max which is blocking disc playing. Even if the dvd drive has problems it is a cheap converter. I'll see.

The MRV660 arrived and the drive problem was a hardware problem. I may repair it I may not. But for around $15 (w/shipping) I got a nice component to s-video converter. The conversion quality is excellent. The MRV does a great job at converting. I just can't record to it but I probably would not anyways. Nice thing is that it defaults to the last used input. So when you set it to component it's done. Just need to power it up and the conversion begins!

I'll repeat myself for anybody who wants to record full 16x9 widescreen from a high def source (at 480i) and is limited by the fact that the source will only do it over component. And is also limited by the fact that their "perfect there's never been a better DVD recorder but it does not have component inputs " problem. Something as cheap as $15 can open up a whole new world of very high quality recording.

And you can continue to use s-video for standard def/channel as you do now. Just use something like the MRV660 when recording from a high def source/channel (at 480i) via component.
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post #18 of 144 Old 01-11-2007, 01:30 AM
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I just got my MVR700 the day before yesterday off ebay. Paid a little over $20 for it. There's a big dent in the back, but after opening the unit up, it looks like it's strictly cosmetic. The VCR portion of it works, but I haven't tested the DVD drive for reading or writing. It powers up just fine and does an excellent job of converting component to s-video. Now, I just have to get some cables and stuff from Monoprice (I don't really like using 25 ft cables when a 3 ft cable will more than do the job) and I'll be all set up to record widescreen programming off of my SA8300HD DVR. Thanks again for the tips nextoo!
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post #19 of 144 Old 01-15-2007, 12:29 AM
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If I had a DVD recorder with a component input, I presume I could record from a Comcast DVR with component output. I realize this would not be HD, but is it safe to presume I would be recording from a 480 digital source? Or is the DVD recorder going to dumb down the 480 signal to a standard def?

Sounds like this would this be the equivalent of having a DVD recorder with a digital tuner. Receive the HD signal and presumably record a 480 digital signal. Or am I missing something here?
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post #20 of 144 Old 01-15-2007, 12:55 AM
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A DVDR can only record a 480i signal, even over component. What you gain with component input is the ability to provide the DVDR with a squished picture, so you can make anamorphic DVDs, for much better PQ. And HD pictures, even down rezzed, provide a better PQ than even a digital SD signal does. The combination of the two allows you to approach commercial DVD picture quality. Still, no 5.1 audio...
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post #21 of 144 Old 01-15-2007, 02:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kjbawc View Post

A DVDR can only record a 480i signal, even over component. What you gain with component input is the ability to provide the DVDR with a squished picture, so you can make anamorphic DVDs, for much better PQ. And HD pictures, even down rezzed, provide a better PQ than even a digital SD signal does. The combination of the two allows you to approach commercial DVD picture quality. Still, no 5.1 audio...

I'm not sure that's totally true, so lets talk about your point.

I assume that a DVDR can only record 480i in 4:3 aspect ratio, right? And, I have to assume this is also true for a component equipped unit. (I don't see any discussion of a component DVDR that "understands" the 16x9 flag).

If you have a STB that can convert wide screen HD material into SD 480i material then wouldn't it be the STB that's doing the work for you? In this case, wouldn't an S-Video connection (to your STB) capture and make the same 16x9 "anamorphic" recording as well? So, it's not the component input that provides 16x9 anamorphic recording ability, it's your cable/satellite box.

If, OTOH, you feed a signal from a DVD player -- playing 16x9 content -- to an input component equipped DVDR, I'm thinking you wouldn't get this advantage. If you set your player to 16x9 output, wouldn't you lose the sides of your pic because the recorder wouldn't "see" the area usually missing on 4:3 material? I make this assumption since the player is designed to receive a 4:3 aspect (SD) signal! (If not, wouldn't it add black bars to the sides of 4:3 material?) If you set your DVD to output 4:3 format (while playing an anamorphic DVD), the player letterboxes or does a pan/scan on your recording. So, in essence, you're still downrezzing (anamorphic) 16x9 material DVD dubbed material, right?

So STBoxes that down-convert are the real plus in this scenario!

To me, their may be some improvement in capturing a 4:3 component signal vs the S-Video version of the same material. And, that would depend as much on the quality of the recorder as its inputs.
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post #22 of 144 Old 01-15-2007, 02:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GreggPenn View Post


If you have a STB that can convert wide screen HD material into SD 480i material then wouldn't it be the STB that's doing the work for you? In this case, wouldn't an S-Video connection (to your STB) capture and make the same 16x9 "anamorphic" recording as well? So, it's not the component input that provides 16x9 anamorphic recording ability, it's your cable/satellite box.

Correct, sort of. Most STB's will only send full widescreen 16x9 content via component (HD channel down converted to 480i). There are a few that will do this via s-video but they are few and far between.

So when recording via component the result is a full widescreen 16x9 result from an HD channel at 480i. Via s-video the STB will insert letterboxing - which is extremely undesirable. In my case using an SA8300HD the letterboxing is gray which looks really bad. Thus the search for a DVD recorder with component inputs. Either to record directly to or to convert the component signal to s-video and then pass this on to another recorder (a preferred recorder for example).

If STB's would send full widescreen 16x9 via s-video this would not be a concern.

Up till this point the recordings are not anamorphic. It's "what you see is what you get". For true anamorphic (for proper playback on a 4:3 display) you can record to a recorder that sets the widescreen flag as a recording option(Toshiba/Sony) or adjust the flag by moving the recording to a PC and setting the flag using Ifoedit.
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post #23 of 144 Old 01-15-2007, 02:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GreggPenn View Post

If, OTOH, you feed a signal from a DVD player -- playing 16x9 content -- to an input component equipped DVDR, I'm thinking you wouldn't get this advantage. If you set your player to 16x9 output, wouldn't you lose the sides of your pic because the recorder wouldn't "see" the area usually missing on 4:3 material? I make this assumption since the player is designed to receive a 4:3 aspect (SD) signal!

No, you would not lose the sides (cropping). These recorders just record whatever signal they get (the video portion). There is no difference as far as the video portion of the signal goes between one meant to be displayed at 4:3 and one meant to be displayed at 16:9. The recorder just records it regardless of what Aspect Ratio it is meant to be displayed at. And it typically assumes it's 4:3. Letterboxing, cropping the sides (Pan&Scan), are both changes to the signal, which recorders do not make. They just digitize whatever video they get and MPEG encode it and store it on HDD or DVD. No processing, not even downconverting. They start with 480i only.
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post #24 of 144 Old 01-15-2007, 02:59 PM
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Pictures say a thousand words.

The first is from a HD STB via s-video. An HD channel. Notice the gray bars. Also the image is stretched. This is being done by the recorder to fill the 16x9 screen.

The second is the same program via component inputs. Notice no letterboxing and the image is a true 16x9 picture. No stretching. Even though it is 480i the image is stunning. The cable box down converts to 480i but the bit rate remains at HD levels (13mps - 19mps). It doesn't translate well with the camera but once again the image is stunning.
LL
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post #25 of 144 Old 01-15-2007, 03:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nextoo View Post

Correct, sort of. Most STB's will only send full widescreen 16x9 content via component (HD channel down converted to 480i). There are a few that will do this via s-video but they are few and far between.

So when recording via component the result is a full widescreen 16x9 result from an HD channel at 480i. Via s-video the STB will insert letterboxing - which is extremely undesirable. In my case using an SA8300HD the letterboxing is gray which looks really bad. Thus the search for a DVD recorder with component inputs. Either to record directly to or to convert the component signal to s-video and then pass this on to another recorder (a preferred recorder for example).

If STB's would send full widescreen 16x9 via s-video this would not be a concern.

Up till this point the recordings are not anamorphic. It's "what you see is what you get". For true anamorphic (for proper playback on a 4:3 display) you can record to a recorder that sets the widescreen flag as a recording option(Toshiba/Sony) or adjust the flag by moving the recording to a PC and setting the flag using Ifoedit.

I also tried recording from a SA8300HD box last weekend. I wanted to copy the rose parade (in 16x9 HD) to disc. I set the output to 480i std and got gray bars. Should I have selected 480i widescreen?

When I tried this, I noticed tall stretching when my 16x9 TV was set to 4:3 mode. I assumed this is what my mom would see on her 4:3 TV when watching the parade.

Bobkart/Nextoo,

I understand receiving & recording from an analog source to a digital format, but I don't get this particular concept.

I know a DVD basically has a static framesize where 16x9 and 4:3 are stored. I assume the difference in display is determined by the "16x9 flag". Furthermore, I assume this flag tells the player to stretch vs not stretch wide material.

But, I also know that the "static" framesize is not all used for a 4:3 frame. When compressing 16x9 material, I could also surmize that the used height of the "oversized" DVD frame is filled. And, that during playback more of the digitized frame is converted to the analog window.

For dubbing from a DVD to a component equipped DVDR are you copying the exact image of the original DVD? I'm guessing not since something like the Polaroid 2001G (which can't set the 16x9 flag) can't really store the same info. So, what am I missing? It seems like there has to be a loss!

gp
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post #26 of 144 Old 01-15-2007, 03:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nextoo View Post

Pictures say a thousand words.

The first is from a HD STB via s-video. An HD channel. Notice the gray bars. Also the image is stretched. This is being done by the recorder to fill the 16x9 screen.

The second is the same program via component inputs. Notice no letterboxing and the image is a true 16x9 picture. No stretching. Even though it is 480i the image is stunning. The cable box down converts to 480i but the bit rate remains at HD levels (13mps - 19mps). Once again the image is stunning.

Huh? Pics?
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post #27 of 144 Old 01-15-2007, 03:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GreggPenn View Post

Huh? Pics?

just posted them. sorry
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post #28 of 144 Old 01-15-2007, 03:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GreggPenn View Post

I also tried recording from a SA8300HD box last weekend. I wanted to copy the rose parade (in 16x9 HD) to disc. I set the output to 480i std and got gray bars. Should I have selected 480i widescreen?

When I tried this, I noticed tall stretching when my 16x9 TV was set to 4:3 mode. I assumed this is what my mom would see on her 4:3 TV when watching the parade.

Bobkart/Nextoo,

I understand receiving & recording from an analog source to a digital format, but I don't get this particular concept.

I know a DVD basically has a static framesize where 16x9 and 4:3 are stored. I assume the difference in display is determined by the "16x9 flag". Furthermore, I assume this flag tells the player to stretch vs not stretch wide material.

But, I also know that the "static" framesize is not all used for a 4:3 frame. When compressing 16x9 material, I could also surmize that the used height of the "oversized" DVD frame is filled. And, that during playback more of the digitized frame is converted to the analog window.

For dubbing from a DVD to a component equipped DVDR are you copying the exact image of the original DVD? I'm guessing not since something like the Polaroid 2001G (which can't set the 16x9 flag) can't really store the same info. So, what am I missing? It seems like there has to be a loss!

gp

Using the Polaroid as an exmple (or any recorder with component inputs) your recording result will be pic #2 above. A recorder with s-video inputs will give you results in pic #1. It has nothing to do with setting the flag or seeing a flag. A recorder will copy the image it receives. Most STB's will only output full widescreen vis component.

edit - your SA8300HD will only output full widesceen (no letterbox) through component. There is no setting on the STB or no setting on your recorder that will change this. People will appreciate this more as they move to HD and it will become more obvious.
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post #29 of 144 Old 01-15-2007, 03:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nextoo View Post

Using the Polaroid as an exmple (or any recorder with component inputs) your recording result will be pic #2 above. A recorder with s-video inputs will give you results in pic #1. It has nothing to do with setting the flag or seeing a flag. A recorder will copy the image it receives. Most STB's will only output full widescreen vis component.

O.K. So refresh my memory. It's been a while since I read about DVD storage techniques.

4:3 is stored in a 450x700 frame (or something like that). Does it use all the pixels? It seems that I recall the frame size being different than 4:3 or 16x9!

Isn't old 16x9 content stored in the same size frame -- with black bars? And, I was thinking an anamorphic 16x9 was streched so that the flag would bring back the proportions. And, it may have used ALL of the height of the frame -- but I forgot.

Another way to cover this is to indicate what happens in the following scenarios....

Using a non-16x9-flag-equipped component input DVDR (like the Poloaroid), what happens in the following scenarios.....
1) 4:3 media recording from a player w output set to 16x9 aspect ratio
2) 16:9 media recording from a player w output set to 4:3 aspect ratio
3) Does the answer to # 2 change if the 16:9 material is anamorphic vs not?

If you will always get a recording for # 2 and #3 like your pic #2 -- regardless of the output aspect ratio of the player then why does your TV need it?

See my confusion?
Gregg

Edit:
BTW, when I set my Atlanta STB to 480i std, I got gray bars like your first pic (from a 16x9 broadcast). Should I use 480i widescreen even if I'm converting a 16x9 show to be stored for a 4:3 TV?
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post #30 of 144 Old 01-15-2007, 03:59 PM
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Both 4:3 and 16:9 use the 480x720 resolution on a DVD (at most). One is just displayed 25% wider than the other.

Whenever you are making a recording, you want the source to send the image with no letterboxing or pillarboxing. Of course this is unavoidable when the content is "wider-than-widescreen", some letterboxing must appear to bring the height up to 16:9, set this situation aside, it doesn't enter into what I'm saying.

If you are recording 4:3 material, there should be no pillarboxing from the source. If you are recording 16:9 material, there should be no letterboxing from the source (wider-than-widescreen notwithstanding). Then it just becomes a matter of correctly flagging the material as either 4:3 (default on most recorders) or 16:9 (more difficult to manage). But the flag only control whether letterboxing is added to 16:9 material when displayed on a 4:3 display, all other situations work fine as long as you can tell the display whether to display it narrow or wide (most display have an Aspect Ratio button to control this).

That's really all there is to it. Any further questions should be answerable by referring to what I wrote in this post, excluding specifics like "Which STBs can output non-letterboxed signals over S-Video?", and "Which DVD Recorders can recognize the widescreen flag in an incoming video signal and make the resulting recording accordingly?", and "How do I set the widescreen flag on a DVD recording that is already made where the DVD Recorder did not properly set the flag?".
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