Pioneer 640HS - can you HS copy DVD authored on PC to HDD? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 11 Old 01-04-2007, 09:20 AM - Thread Starter
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I've got several AVI clips on my PC that I would like to convert to MPG and burn to DVD on my PC and then high speed copy from DVD to HDD on my Pioneer 640HS. I know I can leave these on the DVD and just watch them that way but I would prefer to watch them from the HDD so I can use the commercial skip feature as well as avoid the noise associated with the DVD when the fan comes on (I'm very noise sensitive). Plus I don't want to hassle with all the DVD swapping and want to be able to select what to watch from the HDD and delete when done. I know I can do a "one touch" copy to get them to the HDD that way but that is in real-time and would like to go the faster HS/lossless mode if possible.

I've done a ton of reading here and on many popular sites like VideoHelp and so far haven't found an answer to this problem. I know you can only HS copy to the HDD on a non-finalized -VR mode DVD-RW. I've tried several different software applications to create such a disc, most notably Nero Vision, but always get an error message from the 640 when trying to do the HS copy: "Could not high-speed copy titles that include incompatible audio format, etc." I've verified that the converted MPG file is DVD-compliant, and audio is in correct format. Have tried many different DVD-RW manufacturer discs and speeds but no luck there either.

I can record from the 640's HDD to a DVD, then copy it back to the HDD in HS mode, so know it's possible, but doesn't appear I can author a disc on my PC and then copy to the 640 HDD in HS mode.

Anyone had an experience with this and/or know if it's possible? I might be missing something really obvious, or perhaps it's widely known that this can't be done, but I'm stumped at this point.
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post #2 of 11 Old 01-04-2007, 09:34 AM
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The "non-compliant" audio may be a problem people who use computers might be able to solve, but until then, try a Disc Backup from the Copy menu...see if it accepts the DVD as is...probably not, but worth a try?

(Disc backup is a HS copy, but it might "seem" to take slightly longer than you might expect 'cause it has to create a menu and finalize, etc. so you get a completely ready-to-play, finalized copy. You can even do this while the HDD is recording something else.)
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post #3 of 11 Old 01-04-2007, 12:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the suggestion. I just did some testing and it wouldn't allow me to make a backup of the -VR mode disc (finalized or not) but did allow me to back it up if I wrote the DVD in video mode. Once backed up though I couldn't access the resulting file(s); I could only copy it back to a DVD. Looks like it "hides" it in some kind of partition that you can only access for backing up purposes.

What's strange about the apparent audio differences is I looked at the VRO file created by the 640 in Gspot and it looks like standard AC3 audio which matches up with DVD files I've created. Since the error message has "etc" in there makes me wonder if it's something video or structure related (again, couldn't see any obvious differences comparing the two in Gspot).
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post #4 of 11 Old 01-04-2007, 12:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheForce View Post

Thanks for the suggestion. I just did some testing and it wouldn't allow me to make a backup of the -VR mode disc (finalized or not) but did allow me to back it up if I wrote the DVD in video mode. Once backed up though I couldn't access the resulting file(s); I could only copy it back to a DVD. Looks like it "hides" it in some kind of partition that you can only access for backing up purposes.

Disc backup is great for getting a finalized, menued, exact copy of a finalized DVD using high-speed copy. The file you backed up will remain on the HDD ready for additional copies, if you so choose and didn't answer Yes to the dialog asking if you wanted to delete the backup file. You can access the backed up file again via the Copy menu, "Resume writing...."

If/when you do another backup, the new file will replace the last one.
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post #5 of 11 Old 01-04-2007, 12:41 PM
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Most recorders do not allow video to get on their hard drive that they did not create themselves. I'm guessing it's some kind of protection against their editing software crashing because it can't make lots of assumptions about the structure of the video (and saving them from having to develop a more robust editing capability). So one approach to getting around this would be to try to make a DVD FROM the recorder that CAN be loaded back in exactly. If you can't make such a DVD from the recorder there's little hope of doing it from a PC. Then you have at least one example of how such a DVD should look, and stand a better chance of hitting that target by burning from a PC. I suspect at the very least that it has to be VR mode.
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post #6 of 11 Old 01-04-2007, 01:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobkart View Post

Most recorders do not allow video to get on their hard drive that they did not create themselves. I'm guessing it's some kind of protection against their editing software crashing because it can't make lots of assumptions about the structure of the video (and saving them from having to develop a more robust editing capability). So one approach to getting around this would be to try to make a DVD FROM the recorder that CAN be loaded back in exactly. If you can't make such a DVD from the recorder there's little hope of doing it from a PC. Then you have at least one example of how such a DVD should look, and stand a better chance of hitting that target by burning from a PC. I suspect at the very least that it has to be VR mode.

I think it is possible. I recently burned to the same DVD-Ram disc from three different recorders at various recording speeds. I then dubbed the resulting titles to my DVDR HDD. I also dubbed a finalized dvd-r title to the HDD. I then proceeded to merge all the titles together. Edited out portions of the merged title for grins. And then burned the resulting compilation to dvd-r. Recorders involved were Samsung, Toshiba, and Panasonic.

edit - Sorry I just read the title of the thread. No PC involved in my case.
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post #7 of 11 Old 01-04-2007, 01:24 PM
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DVD-RAM would certainly get my vote as being most likely to be compatible between recorders like that, if they support DVD-RAM at all. Problems though with trying to create a DVD-RAM from PC will appear, since such drives are rare compared to +/-R and +/-RW, and more importantly, DVD-RAM authoring applications are virtually nonexistent (as far as I know).

And my statement about recorders not allowing video that they didn't make themsleves on their hard drive would be more accurately stated as not allowing video that they "couldn't have made themselves". Meaning it has to fit into however narrowly-defined of a specification that they allow to be HS copied to their HDD, again I suspect this is to keep the editor and other various functions that can be done to the video on the HDD happy.
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post #8 of 11 Old 01-04-2007, 01:28 PM
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bobkart - yes I agree. It is prety easy to dub DVD-Ram from other machines to one machine. The rub comes in with dvd-r created on another machine. Not an easy task.
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post #9 of 11 Old 01-04-2007, 03:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Good stuff, thanks for the replies. Sounds like what I want to do is not possible, at least without getting super technical and spending a lot of time. I did find a product called B's DVD Gold8 Recorder that appears to support the Pioneer 510 model but am not sure what exactly is meant by "support" on their website. It may just mean that it can read their format and not necessarily write it to where it would support high speed copying. I did email their tech support and will post here if I hear anything back.

Ben
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post #10 of 11 Old 01-04-2007, 08:39 PM
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I can confirm that the only recordings the 640 will high-speed copy to the HDD are VR mode ones. Your software would have to be able to write VR mode.
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post #11 of 11 Old 01-04-2007, 09:53 PM
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TheForce: you might be able to transfer the DVD content to the HDD with a real-time copy as opposed to a high-speed copy. Yes there will be a re-encoding but at maximum bitrate it might not be very noticable if at all, depending on your display.
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