How do I make copies of my personal collection of dvd's for back-up purposes? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 39 Old 01-19-2007, 07:06 AM - Thread Starter
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I am considering purchasing an upconverting dvd recorder from either samsung or possibly sony. My question is, being that these are single disc recorders, how would i go about burning a copy of a dvd I already own for my own personal back-up copy? Is there any way to sync a second dvd player with the recorder to accomplish this? I have an old (no idea how old) hitachi progressive scan player. It does have component outputs, not sure about component inputs however. Is there any way to accomplish this using these two players? If not, what would be the best technology to purchase to accomplish this?
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post #2 of 39 Old 01-19-2007, 07:54 AM
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All you have to do is feed the "OUTPUTS" of ANY BRAND OF DVD PLAYER to the "INPUTS" of the DVD Recorder & this can be done using ANY BRAND OF DVD RECORDER because they ALL have some type of Inputs on them.

If your thinking of copying "Store Bought" DVDs that contain the Macrovision Copyguard System then you will need to also purchase a "Video Filter" to get rid of the Copyguard.

Do a search here for "Video Filters" or "Sima" a brand of Video Filter & you should get a bunch of info on the filters.
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post #3 of 39 Old 01-19-2007, 07:54 AM
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DVDr w/HDD. Copy the original to HDD, then copy that to a blank DVD. The only issue might be that piracy flags may prevent this.
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post #4 of 39 Old 01-19-2007, 08:14 AM
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Use a PC.

There is no "best", best is what's best for you...

Have you tried searching first?
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post #5 of 39 Old 01-19-2007, 11:10 AM - Thread Starter
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thanks to all who replied. much appreciated
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post #6 of 39 Old 01-19-2007, 03:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe_M View Post

Use a PC.

A little more detail. If your computer has a DVD burner, find and install DVDecrypter, DVDShrink, or DVD Fab Decrypter. Any will make bit-for-bit copies and remove copy protection. This is legal if you are making one copy for your personal collection of movies that you bought legally. (This is my understanding - the laws may have changed).

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post #7 of 39 Old 01-19-2007, 04:07 PM
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Not in the United States or any other country with DMCA-like laws.

Defeating encryption to copy such material was made illegal by the DMCA despite the Fair Use Act. Just FYI.
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post #8 of 39 Old 01-19-2007, 04:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobkart View Post

Not in the United States or any other country with DMCA-like laws.

Defeating encryption to copy such material was made illegal by the DMCA despite the Fair Use Act. Just FYI.

I agree with this. Defeating copy protection in the USA has been deemed a violation. By this I mean using computer programs that circumvent this protection.

Also many of the "filters" sold that defeat copy protection are sold off shore now. I think the maker of the "Sima" device recently lost a court decision. And they are not as widely available as a result. Best Buy for example.

But what about a consumer level DVD recorder that may ignore copy protection as the result of a design flaw. If a consumer presses record and the process begins and then actually completes the recording without the "CP alert" is this a violation? A willful circumvention. I'm guessing probably yes but how does the consumer know? There is the famous warning on DVD's. But there is also the famous warning from the NFL about usage rights without the "express written concent" warning.

But. Finally my point. Finally. This could become more of a concern with "copy once" and "copy never" flags from cable or satellite sources that may be ignored with certain DVD recorders. How is a consumer to know? Especially if the consumer is not proactively placing a "filter" device between the source and the recorder.

It is confusing but I believe if you keep things under your own roof you will be fine.
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post #9 of 39 Old 01-19-2007, 05:46 PM
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Once in the analog domain, the DMCA no longer applies. Copyright laws still apply of course, but so does the Fair Use Act.
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post #10 of 39 Old 01-19-2007, 06:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobkart View Post

Once in the analog domain, the DMCA no longer applies. Copyright laws still apply of course, but so does the Fair Use Act.

So...would I be okay to copy my legally purchsed VHS tapes to DVD as long as I use analog (RCA) cables? Even if I use a filter?

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post #11 of 39 Old 01-19-2007, 07:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobkart View Post

Once in the analog domain, the DMCA no longer applies. Copyright laws still apply of course, but so does the Fair Use Act.

So I gues this would fall under the domain of copying an owned DVD either through component, S-Video, or composite since these are all analog connections?

With a Sima/Grex unit in between a DVD player and a DVD recorderconnected via one of the above connections?
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post #12 of 39 Old 01-19-2007, 08:13 PM
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Only digital copies are covered by the DMCA (hence the D). Copying a DVD by playing it back through analog A/V cables to a recorder isn't a digital copy. So "yes" to the preceding questions by crabboy and STEELERSRULE.

Disclaimer: I feel individuals should be able to legally make copies of material (CD/VHS/DVD for example) that they have purchased or otherwise legally obtained, for whatever reason, be it backup, convenience, change of medium, a copy to play in the car and keep the original more safe, a copy for the kids to destroy, etc. As long as the intent of the Copyright is not violated, that would be giving away or selling copies to others, for example. Evey so often when I point out the DMCA here at AVS Forums, someone tries to equate pointing out the law with agreeing with it. Hence this Disclaimer.
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post #13 of 39 Old 01-19-2007, 08:26 PM
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bobkart, Then how come Macrovision won their court case against Sima? & that was Sima's argument that it was in the Analog Domain & not covered.
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post #14 of 39 Old 01-19-2007, 08:30 PM
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I'm not saying Sima's position is defensible. I'm saying the DMCA doesn't apply to it. There could be something else that Sima is doing wrong.

This is my understanding, if someone knows better then by all means speak up.

The full text of the DMCA would help with these questions, if someone has a link . . . ?
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post #15 of 39 Old 01-19-2007, 08:37 PM
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Here is an Aug 2006 Amicus brief on the court case, which SIMA is appealing.

Nice discussion and lots of further reading on how Macrovision has tried to extend its Analog system to digital, federal mandates in the analog realm, etc.
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post #16 of 39 Old 01-20-2007, 07:00 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crabboy View Post

A little more detail. If your computer has a DVD burner, find and install DVDecrypter, DVDShrink, or DVD Fab Decrypter. Any will make bit-for-bit copies and remove copy protection. This is legal if you are making one copy for your personal collection of movies that you bought legally. (This is my understanding - the laws may have changed).

Thanks for the info crabboy. This looks like it may be the easiest route to go. I may just get a decent standalone upconvert dvd player and then buy a dvd burner for my computer and use one of those programs. from the very brief overview of the programs i have done, it looks like dvd fab encrypter might be the easiest to use.

I just cant stand to let myself ruin another dvd from overuse or stupid things like dropping it or scratching it while loading or unloading only to be left with no back-up copy and be forced to unload another $20-25.

I've wised up a little in my college years and rarely even download music for free anymore, I simply believe if you truly want to support an artist, label, actor, etc. you should pay for that product. Once its yours, make as many copies as you want, as long as your not giving them away or selling them. Thats just my personal belief.
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post #17 of 39 Old 01-20-2007, 08:36 AM - Thread Starter
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With a program like dvd fab, will i need two dvd drives? One dvd player drive and one dvd recorder drive? or since it will rip to my hd first, is the dvd burner the only drive neccessary? please excuse my ignorance.

Also since this is a dvd forum, does anyone have any preferece between the samsung hd860
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage....=1134702980301

and the sony DVP-NS75H
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage....=1134703758434

or any other suggestions in $120 and under price range?
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post #18 of 39 Old 01-20-2007, 08:58 AM
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is the dvd burner the only drive neccessary?

Yes.

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please excuse my ignorance.

The purpose of the forum is to exchange ideas and share knowledge. If everyone knew all the answers to all the questions we would not have a forum I suppose
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post #19 of 39 Old 01-20-2007, 12:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Yes.



The purpose of the forum is to exchange ideas and share knowledge. If everyone knew all the answers to all the questions we would not have a forum I suppose


Very true. If anyone needs and tips on nutrition or fitness I'm your answer guy. Electronics, not so much. But in any case i appreciate your help.
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post #20 of 39 Old 01-20-2007, 02:06 PM
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Hope you guys don't mind another question from a newbie :-)

I have a Cyberhome DVD player and I recently got the Panasonic DMR-EH75VS as a present. If I want to make back-up copies of my copyprotected DVDs by hooking up the Cyberhome to the Panasonic, do I need one of those video filter devices, or can I just program the Cyberhome to ignore the Macrovision (there are codes out there for that, or so I've been told)? Or will the Panasonic still be able to detect the copyprotection even if I "hack" my Cyberhome? Thanks!
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post #21 of 39 Old 01-20-2007, 02:19 PM
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Hope you guys don't mind another question from a newbie :-)

I have a Cyberhome DVD player and I recently got the Panasonic DMR-EH75VS as a present. If I want to make back-up copies of my copyprotected DVDs by hooking up the Cyberhome to the Panasonic, do I need one of those video filter devices, or can I just program the Cyberhome to ignore the Macrovision (there are codes out there for that, or so I've been told)? Or will the Panasonic still be able to detect the copyprotection even if I "hack" my Cyberhome? Thanks!

Read through this thread from the 1st post. A video filter is your best choice based on your post. Search Grex, Sima, Logic design or Video filter. As noted above a PC works well also.

Videohelp.com is a good site for "hacks".
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post #22 of 39 Old 01-20-2007, 02:56 PM
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Thanks, DLSDO. Unfortunately, I can't use my PC for this purpose yet as I don't have a DVD burner. I've seen mentions of the Grex, Sima, et all here. Do you recommend one over the others, or are they fairly equal? Thanks again!
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post #23 of 39 Old 01-20-2007, 03:08 PM
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how much are video filters? A DVD burner is about $30-$40. Any PC with a 1GHz / 512MB RAM / 20GB hard drive can handle backing up a DVD....might not be the fastest in the world but it can be done.

Also a DVD burner in a PC is a good way to backup a lot of data at once (pictures, files, etc.)

At no point in your rambling, incoherent post were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this forum is now dumber for having read it.

My Little Theater
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post #24 of 39 Old 01-20-2007, 04:05 PM
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Quote:


how much are video filters?

Filters are $100-150

Quote:


A DVD burner is about $30-$40. Any PC with a 1GHz / 512MB RAM / 20GB hard drive can handle backing up a DVD....might not be the fastest in the world but it can be done.

Agreed.
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post #25 of 39 Old 01-20-2007, 05:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DLSDO View Post

Filters are $100-150

Some are. But the Sima can be found as low as $69.99 (occasionally even lower) and this model - http://www.checkhere22.com/stabilizer/ - as low as $29.99. I have both and both work excellently.

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post #26 of 39 Old 01-20-2007, 05:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Birdsizzle View Post

Thanks for the info crabboy. This looks like it may be the easiest route to go. I may just get a decent standalone upconvert dvd player and then buy a dvd burner for my computer and use one of those programs. from the very brief overview of the programs i have done, it looks like dvd fab encrypter might be the easiest to use.

Right now, I would exclusively recommend DVD Fab Decrypter as the DVD ripper of choice. DVD Decrypter was a most excellent ripper and for free. However, the developer has ceased support nearly 2 years ago so there are no longer any updates. Decrypter still works for most DVDs but many new titles (essentially anything released by Sony Pictures or Disney) add additional copyguards that cause Decrypter to choke -- at which point you need to use DVD Fab Decrypter.

DVD Fab Decrypter is not free. It appears to be available only over the Internet and is updated regularly to compensate for anything new Sony does to their DVDs. It is well worth the price for what it does. It has a feature to rip a DVD-9 and split it up between 2 DVD-5s, keeping all the features, menues etc. If you only want the movie it can do a rip of the main title only. The Platinum version has MPEG-4 encoders to convert the title to H.264 MP4 for playback on protable devices including iPOD and PSP. It let's you do whatever you want with the video you legally purchased and view it on your own terms (I guess you can see where my sentiments lie).

I would also recommend the free utility DVD Shrink as part of your toolkit. Shrink will take the ripped DVD files and do a 2-pass transcode to "shrink" them down so they fit on a single DVD-5. When I back up my DVDs I typically use Shrink to eliminate all the extras, fillers, advertising previews, languages and non-english subtitles so I only have the movie shrunk down onto a single disk which starts playing as soon as it loads. I can even cut out the logo presentations of the studios from the beginning so I don't have to waste my time watching them either. Likewise, if the movie needs to be shrunk I can cut off the 10 minutes of credits at the movies end and save a lot space so it doesn't have to be shrunk as much (often cutting out the credits allows me to fit the movie to a single DVD-5 at full fidelity without shrinking).

- kelson h

The bitterness of poor quality lasts long after the sweetness of the low price is forgotten . . . life is too short to drink bad wine

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post #27 of 39 Old 01-20-2007, 05:40 PM
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General note to the above posts on using a video filter.

When you "play" a DVD (through a filter) into a DVD recorder you will be converting the digital to analog then running it into the recorder which will convert it back to digital using on-the-fly encoding which I guarantee will be of lessor quality than the encoding that was used on the original DVD source. Also, you only get what the player plays -- single language, no subtitle track and only 2.0 stereo sound -- just like recording a TV program.

If you have a PC, for the price of a filter you can purchase a good DVD burner (even an external model that you can just plug into your USB-2 port if you don't feel capable of opening your PC and replacing a drive). Using a PC and the software I describe above you can make a digital copy with the subtitles and full 5.1 sound. IMHO, if you have a PC, don't be thinking filter, think burner.

- kelson h

The bitterness of poor quality lasts long after the sweetness of the low price is forgotten . . . life is too short to drink bad wine

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post #28 of 39 Old 01-20-2007, 05:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelson View Post

If you have a PC, for the price of a filter you can purchase a good DVD burner (even an external model that you can just plug into your USB-2 port if you don't feel capable of opening your PC and replacing a drive). Using a PC and the software I describe above you can make a digital copy with the subtitles and full 5.1 sound. IMHO, if you have a PC, don't be thinking filter, think burner.

That is the reason I use a filter.

I just don't feel comfortable using the computer. With a filter in between it just seems a little more straightforward.

Kelson,

PM me recommendations(if any) for an external DVD Burner(which can be found at Best Buy/Circuit City/Staples/CompUSA since they are close too me) that can be connected to my computer via the USB port.

Plus, the type of software which can either downloaded over the internet(if you trust the site) or bought over the counter at these stores. Just the real straighforward stuff since I am not that much of a tech.

From the way you make it sound, it seems like being able to burn using the computer should not be that difficult. But it appears MORE DIFFICULT to me, anyways, than using the DVD Player-->to the Filter-->to the input on the DVD Recorder-->to the DVD-R/+R/Whatever.
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post #29 of 39 Old 01-20-2007, 06:33 PM
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In PM responding to Steelersrule (go Eagles) I dug around the DVD Fab Decrypter website to get the proper reference to send him. I have always wondered why the media companies have not gone after DVD Fab Decrypter the way they did with DVD Decrypter, DVD Shrink and others. Now I know.

The software company "Fengtao Software Inc." is based in and sells out of Beijing China (that is, when their servers are not busy bombarding the world with spam). We all know how respectful they are of International copyright and patent laws. So-sorry MPAA ;-). You gotta love it. Trying to shut this down will probably have even less success than shutting down Internet gambling. As soon as some enterprising youth fully cracks HD-DVD and Blu-Ray, look for Fengtao to release a new product.

- kelson h

The bitterness of poor quality lasts long after the sweetness of the low price is forgotten . . . life is too short to drink bad wine

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post #30 of 39 Old 01-20-2007, 08:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelson View Post

Right now, I would exclusively recommend DVD Fab Decrypter as the DVD ripper of choice. DVD Decrypter was a most excellent ripper and for free. However, the developer has ceased support nearly 2 years ago so there are no longer any updates. Decrypter still works for most DVDs but many new titles (essentially anything released by Sony Pictures or Disney) add additional copyguards that cause Decrypter to choke -- at which point you need to use DVD Fab Decrypter.

DVD Fab Decrypter is not free. It appears to be available only over the Internet and is updated regularly to compensate for anything new Sony does to their DVDs. It is well worth the price for what it does. It has a feature to rip a DVD-9 and split it up between 2 DVD-5s, keeping all the features, menues etc. If you only want the movie it can do a rip of the main title only. The Platinum version has MPEG-4 encoders to convert the title to H.264 MP4 for playback on protable devices including iPOD and PSP. It let's you do whatever you want with the video you legally purchased and view it on your own terms (I guess you can see where my sentiments lie

I would also recommend the free utility DVD Shrink as part of your toolkit. Shrink will take the ripped DVD files and do a 2-pass transcode to "shrink" them down so they fit on a single DVD-5. When I back up my DVDs I typically use Shrink to eliminate all the extras, fillers, advertising previews, languages and non-english subtitles so I only have the movie shrunk down onto a single disk which starts playing as soon as it loads. I can even cut out the logo presentations of the studios from the beginning so I don't have to waste my time watching them either. Likewise, if the movie needs to be shrunk I can cut off the 10 minutes of credits at the movies end and save a lot space so it doesn't have to be shrunk as much (often cutting out the credits allows me to fit the movie to a single DVD-5 at full fidelity without shrinking).

Excellent info! Thanks
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