Summary of ATSC recorders - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 1027 Old 02-19-2007, 03:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonB2 View Post

kbgl,

What model of RCA is this? I read another post somewhere and the poster said they got their RCA at least I think it was RCA at Walmart. But I don't think it had hard Drive. Sure is a pain. I want to get lazy and just say "HD" for hard drive but that will be confused with High Definition.

Anyway does your RCA have component in/out? Of course I realise this would require some kind of up/down convert.

Also does your RCA do instant record and does it support all DVD media?

-DonB2

All the details you'd want to know are in this thread: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=767130
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post #92 of 1027 Old 02-20-2007, 07:34 AM
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Biker19,

Thanks.

Don
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post #93 of 1027 Old 02-21-2007, 12:47 PM
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. . . and ill-informed speculation it would be, since no one has one of these boxes in hand. But what's your guess about which of the announced ATSC DVD recorders would have the best tuner sensitivity for picking up distant stations?
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post #94 of 1027 Old 02-21-2007, 02:55 PM
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I would guess they all will have at least a 5th gen tuner (maybe some lower tier makers might use some leftover 4th gen ones) so OTA tuning should be good on all of them. Samsung seems to use some good stuff so it might even use a 6th gen tuner.
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post #95 of 1027 Old 02-23-2007, 02:54 PM
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There's a new model listed now on the Philips web site. It is still vague, but sounds disapointing - the specifications say that it will include and SDTV tuner for digital TV broadcasts, whatever that means, sounds to me like tuning the digital channels and outputting them in standard definition. Here's the link:

http://www.consumer.philips.com/cons...CSHQVHKFSESI5P
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post #96 of 1027 Old 02-23-2007, 04:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbyslav View Post

There's a new model listed now on the Philips web site. It is still vague, but sounds disapointing - the specifications say that it will include and SDTV tuner for digital TV broadcasts, whatever that means, sounds to me like tuning the digital channels and outputting them in standard definition. Here's the link:

http://www.consumer.philips.com/cons...CSHQVHKFSESI5P

It says it has a digital coax out (I wonder if they mean audio?). The specs really stink on this....hard to read and understand (especially the inputs/outputs)

At no point in your rambling, incoherent post were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this forum is now dumber for having read it.


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post #97 of 1027 Old 02-23-2007, 04:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sivartk View Post

It says it has a digital coax out (I wonder if they mean audio?). The specs really stink on this....hard to read and understand (especially the inputs/outputs)

Yes that would be audio.

I believe this is how they all will be. ATSC/NTSC tuners with the addition of QAM on some models/brands. Digital signal coming into the tuner down converted to SD. And then those with HDMI will upconvert the down converted SD signal. Those without HDMI will handle things they way they do today - 480i/480p via analog outputs.

The ATSC tuner should pass through like the NTSC ones do today.
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post #98 of 1027 Old 02-23-2007, 05:22 PM
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That would be pretty disappointing if it couldn't be used as an HD tuner.
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post #99 of 1027 Old 02-23-2007, 05:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by biker19 View Post

That would be pretty disappointing if it couldn't be used as an HD tuner.

I hope I am wrong.
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post #100 of 1027 Old 02-23-2007, 06:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nextoo View Post

I hope I am wrong.

I hope you are wrong, too....if not I will go buy up all the Sony HD DVR's at Fry's and resell them for a nice profit

At no point in your rambling, incoherent post were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this forum is now dumber for having read it.


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post #101 of 1027 Old 02-23-2007, 06:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sivartk View Post

I hope you are wrong, too....if not I will go buy up all the Sony HD DVR's at Fry's and resell them for a nice profit

The fly in the ointment with DVD recorders is the requirement to down convert to SD because of the recording to disc. It has to be SD. I don't believe, based on what I have read, that there will be an HD path and an SD path. Not for 200 or 300 bucks. It looks like it will be an SD path.

Eliminate the requirement to burn to a 4.7GB disc and you get your Sony. Well actually you get the DVR's that are so popular in North America. TIVO? Cableco?

Read what the manufacturers are saying. It's all there.
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post #102 of 1027 Old 02-23-2007, 07:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbyslav View Post

There's a new model listed now on the Philips web site. It is still vague, but sounds disapointing - the specifications say that it will include and SDTV tuner for digital TV broadcasts, whatever that means, sounds to me like tuning the digital channels and outputting them in standard definition. Here's the link:

http://www.consumer.philips.com/cons...CSHQVHKFSESI5P

Well, the Dolby Digital Recording logo answers the question many here have had regarding whether or not the new recorders will be able to record the original 5.1 audio along with the downconverted video.
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post #103 of 1027 Old 02-23-2007, 07:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by foxfan View Post

Well, the Dolby Digital Recording logo answers the question many here have had regarding whether or not the new recorders will be able to record the original 5.1 audio along with the downconverted video.


How does it answer it? Every current model has the DD logo, but with a little footnote that reads: 2.0. I can't really see that small on the Philips picture.
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post #104 of 1027 Old 02-23-2007, 07:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by foxfan View Post

Well, the Dolby Digital Recording logo answers the question many here have had regarding whether or not the new recorders will be able to record the original 5.1 audio along with the downconverted video.

There are no 5.1 connections on the unit, and the specs state only analog L/R and digital coaxial. Must be DD 2.0, the usual one for our recorders.


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post #105 of 1027 Old 02-23-2007, 08:14 PM
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I'm not talking about inputing DD sound from an external source. I'm talking about recording it from the internal digital tuner.
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post #106 of 1027 Old 02-23-2007, 09:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nextoo View Post

Well actually you get the DVR's that are so popular in North America. TIVO? Cableco?

Exactly, the whole problem is people willing to give the cable companies and TiVo money unnecessarily. Since I don't have cable service and I refuse to pay $800 + $17 a month to record 2 shows a week, I'm stuck with using a discontinued product. I am glad I got two of them (for $300 total).

It just amazes me that the cable companies charge $10/month to rent an HD DVR, don't people realize if we demanded a product that could record HD to a hard drive and then downconvert to burn to DVD that we could save some money? Mass production would have these under $400 easy...pays for itself in about 3 years and you get more features and the ability to archive.

I guess for now, we can only wait until the HD Camcorders become more popular and people want a way to archive lossless without the use of a PC. Maybe that will spur the making of an HD DVDR

At no point in your rambling, incoherent post were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this forum is now dumber for having read it.


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post #107 of 1027 Old 02-24-2007, 01:57 AM
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Those of us that have digital cable would like to be able to record any channel we get to disk, including encrypted digital. Without that capability, we get crap analog and a handful of unencrypted digitals.

Will there be a DVD recorder WITH QAM and CABLECARD ????? Don't want TIVO.
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post #108 of 1027 Old 02-24-2007, 06:34 AM
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Originally Posted by mark_1080p View Post

Those of us that have digital cable would like to be able to record any channel we get to disk, including encrypted digital. Without that capability, we get crap analog and a handful of unencrypted digitals.

Will there be a DVD recorder WITH QAM and CABLECARD ????? Don't want TIVO.

See this post for a couple of units with QAM.


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post #109 of 1027 Old 02-24-2007, 07:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nextoo View Post

The fly in the ointment with DVD recorders is the requirement to down convert to SD because of the recording to disc. It has to be SD. I don't believe, based on what I have read, that there will be an HD path and an SD path. Not for 200 or 300 bucks. It looks like it will be an SD path.

But the HD path is already there, it's already on the chip - all they have to do is make it available at the back of the unit.

Maybe that's why the HDD units are being delayed - those will have two paths including HD to the HDD.
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post #110 of 1027 Old 02-24-2007, 03:11 PM
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wabjxo - thanks, but QAM is not enough. QAM does not automatically mean CableCARD.
Most digitals are encrypted, so the dvd recorder must have cablecard.

Any dvd recorders coming WITH CABLECARD ??
If not, then this is a step backwards.
At least the old VCR's could deal with analog cable.
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post #111 of 1027 Old 02-24-2007, 03:24 PM
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Originally Posted by biker19 View Post

But the HD path is already there, it's already on the chip - all they have to do is make it available at the back of the unit.

Maybe that's why the HDD units are being delayed - those will have two paths including HD to the HDD.

Maybe. But for the ones already announced I think the ATSC/NTSC tuner will downconvert anything HD to SD at the tuner level. Everything going into the mainboard will be SD. Just a guess. Philips is already using the term SDTV Digital Tuner with its new 2007 model.
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post #112 of 1027 Old 02-24-2007, 04:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark_1080p View Post

wabjxo - thanks, but QAM is not enough. QAM does not automatically mean CableCARD.
Most digitals are encrypted, so the dvd recorder must have cablecard.

Any dvd recorders coming WITH CABLECARD ??
If not, then this is a step backwards.
At least the old VCR's could deal with analog cable.

DVDrs can handle analog as well. It's the cable cos that are encrypting the signal. After (7/1) the cable cos are forced to relinquish the STB monopoly they've had some units with CC may become available but I highly doubt it.
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post #113 of 1027 Old 02-24-2007, 05:24 PM
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Originally Posted by biker19 View Post

After (7/1) the cable cos are forced to relinquish the STB monopoly they've had some units with CC may become available but I highly doubt it.

Can you expand on this please. I'm not aware of what happens on 7/1. What and by who? Thanks

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post #114 of 1027 Old 02-24-2007, 08:12 PM
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Well I was hoping to be able to record to DVD from 480i digital channels, analog will be gone from cable soon. Why this would not be a priority with manufacturers I have no clue. That severely limits the usefulness of DVD recorders IMO. And you cannot do it without unencrypting the channel.
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post #115 of 1027 Old 02-24-2007, 08:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark_1080p View Post

Well I was hoping to be able to record to DVD from 480i digital channels, analog will be gone from cable soon. Why this would not be a priority with manufacturers I have no clue. That severely limits the usefulness of DVD recorders IMO. And you cannot do it without unencrypting the channel.

My theory...and only a theory...is that when analog cable is completely gone, the cable companies will have a "standard digital" package that is unencrypted (similar to the standard analog packages today). Today, very few digital channels are unencrypted. So a digital cable ready TV (QAM) will be the standard. I make sure that all the devices I buy today have a QAM tuner even though I don't currently have cable. So, before I upgrade my DVD recorder, I will make sure the new unit has a QAM tuner.

At no point in your rambling, incoherent post were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this forum is now dumber for having read it.


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post #116 of 1027 Old 02-25-2007, 12:33 AM
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With all the thieves out there, I would bet the cable companies would encrypt every single channel forever save the locals. Cable is in fact getting awfully expensive around here, about 80/month for a basic digital lineup without premiums. I'm really beginning to wonder if it is worth it.

So, unless we get a recorder with CableCARD, we'll be forced to rent some POC from the cable companies.
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post #117 of 1027 Old 02-25-2007, 01:00 AM
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Originally Posted by mark_1080p View Post

With all the thieves out there, I would bet the cable companies would encrypt every single channel forever save the locals. Cable is in fact getting awfully expensive around here, about 80/month for a basic digital lineup without premiums. I'm really beginning to wonder if it is worth it.

So, unless we get a recorder with CableCARD, we'll be forced to rent some POC from the cable companies.

I'm confused. Are you concerned about the cost of the STB rental or the cost of the content? ESPN will never be free. Even with a cable card.

If you purchase your own STB you'll have to acquire the cable card from the cable company - in addition to purchasing content. Content will probably cost you $70 per month instead of the $80 per month you spend now (which includes content and your STB rental).

So you'll be spending $70 per month instead of $80 per month but you'll have the added cost of purchasing your own STB - at probably $300 - $400. And the maintenance is on you.

Content is never going to be free. Unless it is the OTA broadcast channels. Which are underwritten by the advertisers.
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post #118 of 1027 Old 02-25-2007, 01:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark_1080p View Post

Cable is in fact getting awfully expensive around here, about 80/month for a basic digital lineup without premiums. I'm really beginning to wonder if it is worth it.

Maybe you should check into DBS. Depending on what your requirements are, it could be a better deal for you.
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post #119 of 1027 Old 02-25-2007, 01:52 AM
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I just threw the cost issue in as an aside.

The basic issue again is the lack of ability to record onto DVD a digital channel other than locals. We are not talking about HD, just SD. I have CableCARD on the TV's, I do not currently rent a Cable STB, nor do I wish to ever do so. I do not want hard drive recording on the cable company STB. I do not want Tivo. I want DVD recording. Seems like a pretty basic feature, yet where is it?

In the days of tape recording, we could record analog cable directly. Now that we have DVD recording, why should we not expect to be able to record digital cable directly?
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post #120 of 1027 Old 02-25-2007, 01:55 AM
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Is DBS doing 1920x1080 these days, or are they still doing that HD lite crap?
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