Pioneer 640 getting scarce - Page 10 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #271 of 323 Old 05-27-2007, 09:34 AM
fas
Member
 
fas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Youngstown, Ohio
Posts: 128
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Just a shot in the dark, but try the REX stores around the country. I found a new Pio 640 in the Kent, Ohio store about 6 weeks ago. Marked 399 but when I asked if that's the best they could do, they said 299. I also found one in their New Castle Pa. store and they quoted me the same discounted price. Didn't buy either one because I got a new Sony 715 at the Sony Outlet store at the Grove City Outlet Mall in Pa. for 199. They had refurb 900s for 179. May want to call around to Sony outlet stores.
fas is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #272 of 323 Old 05-27-2007, 10:44 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Sean Nelson's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Vancouver BC, Canada
Posts: 3,304
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by slprp1 View Post

I suppose that I envy you for having such a great wife and being able to get Pioneer 640's so cheap!

My wife has a fairly bad case of arthritis and it's very difficult for her to move around, so she spends a lot of time reading and watching the TV. When we got the first DVD recorder she filled it up within in a few weeks, and I asked her if she taped that many shows when she was just using the VCR. Her response was "the VCR was holding me back!".
Sean Nelson is offline  
post #273 of 323 Old 05-27-2007, 03:35 PM
Member
 
JohnN's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Canada
Posts: 59
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean Nelson View Post

[FistPump]YES![/FistPump]

I feel a little decadent, now we've ended up with 4 Pioneer recorders...

I've seen these in stock at several of the Future Shops in Vancouver (downtown), Burnaby (Metrotown) and Richmond (Lansdown and Bridgeport). If you think you'd like to get one then at more than $120 off the regular price this is probably as good a deal as you're going to get.

Sean,

I am a little surprised that your Future Shops still have 640's. There has been not advertising of this item in my area(east Toronto) since last fall and it has not been on their web site since at least February.

I was told in early April that there would be no further stock received, and I chose in mid April to buy the final floor stock item left among the 3 stores in my area.

I thougt Future Shop sold similar stock across the country but I guess they misjudged regional sales volumes.

I got a similar story of discontinuance from the 2 Best Buy outlets in my area and again opted to buy the last floor stock item available earlier this month.

Another home electronics chain store(2001 Audiovideo) that normally carried Pioneer recorders also sold out in early April.

I now have the 640 I bought last summer and the April purchase in daily use with the third(Best Buy purchase) as a backup.

John N
JohnN is offline  
post #274 of 323 Old 05-27-2007, 06:42 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Sean Nelson's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Vancouver BC, Canada
Posts: 3,304
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnN View Post

I am a little surprised that your Future Shops still have 640's.

I've been keeping an eye on their stock levels at the stores I get to from time to time and they've pretty consistently had a couple of boxes on the floor in each location. If I'd seen them start to dry up I probably would have pulled the trigger earlier, but as it is I'm really glad I waited.

I understand that Future Shop and Best Buy are both owned by the same company (I've never quite understood why they've been opening stores next to each other and effectively competing with themselves). Since Best Buy is based in the US there could well be some truth to jmscott's theory that the US branch is "dumping" units into Canada that are no longer legal for interstate transport in the US.

There are no stickers on my box that confirm this. There is a sticker indicating that the box was shipped from Best Buy's Langley warehouse to the Future Shop where I bought it at the beginning of May, so there's definitely stock at more than just the retail stores. FWIW, the unit I bought was manufactured in Sep 2006.
Sean Nelson is offline  
post #275 of 323 Old 05-27-2007, 07:43 PM
Member
 
JohnN's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Canada
Posts: 59
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean Nelson View Post

FWIW, the unit I bought was manufactured in Sep 2006.

...Interesting.

The 2 units I bought from Future Shop were manuafactured in May 2006 and the latest purchase from Best Buy was manufactured in April 2006.

I quess this doesn't mean much as the first Future Shop purchase was only weeks after these first reached Future Shop last year, and the latest 2 purchases were display models probably set up from the first shipments with the US based Best Buy getting their delivery a month earlier than the Canadian Future Shop.

FWIW the firmware versions were 6.13 and 6.15 which I have updated to 6.20.

John N
JohnN is offline  
post #276 of 323 Old 05-27-2007, 08:11 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Sean Nelson's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Vancouver BC, Canada
Posts: 3,304
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnN View Post

FWIW the firmware versions were 6.13 and 6.15 which I have updated to 6.20.

My September 2006 unit had firmware version 6.19, now also upgraded to 6.20.
Sean Nelson is offline  
post #277 of 323 Old 05-28-2007, 11:07 AM
Member
 
Seeker47's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 195
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by fas View Post

Just a shot in the dark, but try the REX stores around the country. I found a new Pio 640 in the Kent, Ohio store about 6 weeks ago. Marked 399 but when I asked if that's the best they could do, they said 299. I also found one in their New Castle Pa. store and they quoted me the same discounted price.

Just curious: does anyone know if REX was a Pioneer authorized dealer ?

I just did a quick check, and there are no REX locations in states like Calif., Nevada, Oregon. I'm guessing they are mostly an Eastern chain. So this info will only be of use to interested parties in those states. (No mention of Pioneer now for REX online, except maybe for a standalone player ? But I might have seen that elsewhere. They seem to concentrate on cheapo off-brands like Coby.)
Seeker47 is offline  
post #278 of 323 Old 05-28-2007, 11:33 AM
Member
 
Seeker47's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 195
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean Nelson View Post

I've been keeping an eye on their stock levels at the stores I get to from time to time and they've pretty consistently had a couple of boxes on the floor in each location. If I'd seen them start to dry up I probably would have pulled the trigger earlier, but as it is I'm really glad I waited.

I understand that Future Shop and Best Buy are both owned by the same company (I've never quite understood why they've been opening stores next to each other and effectively competing with themselves). Since Best Buy is based in the US there could well be some truth to jmscott's theory that the US branch is "dumping" units into Canada that are no longer legal for interstate transport in the US.

There are no stickers on my box that confirm this. There is a sticker indicating that the box was shipped from Best Buy's Langley warehouse to the Future Shop where I bought it at the beginning of May, so there's definitely stock at more than just the retail stores. FWIW, the unit I bought was manufactured in Sep 2006.

Sean,

I don't think that any of the numerous U.S. Best Buy locations I've been to -- over the last couple years -- ever had the Pioneer recorders. (Their Magnolia Audio / Video subsidiary had them -- briefly.) The best units I ever saw at BB were a couple of the Toshiba models, which were noticeably more expensive then the Pioneers, and maybe a JVC. These have been off the shelves at BB for the better part of a year now, and were never in plentiful or regular supply there either.

The "dumping" idea sounds plausible to me.

Let me run a hypothetical by you. If these are still being seen out your way, at attractive prices -- and I'm assuming these are new units, not refurbs or anything like that -- and one of us in the lower 48 was interested in buying one by proxy, is that something that could be arranged ? I know there are warranty issues, and shipping, and customs to deal with -- but I'm wondering if a private party is enjoined from sending one of these to the U.S., the way that a retailer now seems to be ? However -- particularly for what may just be a spare to tuck away -- I don't see this making sense if the total price of doing this begins to approach those prices we are now seeing on Ebay.
Seeker47 is offline  
post #279 of 323 Old 05-28-2007, 11:53 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Sean Nelson's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Vancouver BC, Canada
Posts: 3,304
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seeker47 View Post

...I'm wondering if a private party is enjoined from sending one of these to the U.S., the way that a retailer now seems to be ?

I'd imagine that the best way to find out if there's an import restriction for personal use would be to contact US Customs, since they'd be the ones to impound the unit if it was illegal.
Sean Nelson is offline  
post #280 of 323 Old 05-30-2007, 11:25 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Sean Nelson's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Vancouver BC, Canada
Posts: 3,304
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean Nelson View Post

[FistPump]YES![/FistPump]

It just got even better

I was biking past the new Best Buy store at Cambie and 6th today so I stuck my head in to check it out. What should I see but a couple of Pioneer 640's with a shelf sticker that said "Clearance - $299.97". So snapped a photo of the shelf tag, high-tailed it back to Future Shop Metotown and talked them into giving me their competitive price guarantee (meet the competetor's price plus 10% of the difference). As a result, the net price I ended up paying for my 640 was only Cdn$295 plus tax, nearly $200 off the original list price.

If you're in Vancouver and you're considering a Pio 640, I think this is as good a deal as you're going to find! And if you're in another part of Canada it's probably worth checking the local Best Buys to see if they've got the same deal going. (Note - this wasn't listed in this week's Best Buy flyer, at least not here in Vancouver.)
Sean Nelson is offline  
post #281 of 323 Old 05-30-2007, 11:53 PM
 
slprp1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: New York City
Posts: 998
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked: 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean Nelson View Post

It just got even better

I was biking past the new Best Buy store at Cambie and 6th today so I stuck my head in to check it out. What should I see but a couple of Pioneer 640's with a shelf sticker that said "Clearance - $299.97". So snapped a photo of the shelf tag, high-tailed it back to Future Shop Metotown and talked them into giving me their competitive price guarantee (meet the competetor's price plus 10% of the difference). As a result, the net price I ended up paying for my 640 was only Cdn$295 plus tax, nearly $200 off the original list price.

If you're in Vancouver and you're considering a Pio 640, I think this is as good a deal as you're going to find! And if you're in another part of Canada it's probably worth checking the local Best Buys to see if they've got the same deal going. (Note - this wasn't listed in this week's Best Buy flyer, at least not here in Vancouver.)

Talk about lucky!!......
Generally, price match policies exclude "clearance" or "as is" type goods!
You must be very charming!......and the people at Future shop are walking around without their pants on!
......good move!!
slprp1 is offline  
post #282 of 323 Old 05-31-2007, 07:44 AM
AVS Special Member
 
MrMike6by9's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Lutherville, Maryland
Posts: 1,272
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Sean, you're making me sick. I'm feeling so miserable being a Yank from the States because I can't get another 640.

"Typos are very important to all written form. It gives the reader something to look for so they aren't distracted by the total lack of content in your writing."

- Randy K. Milholland
MrMike6by9 is offline  
post #283 of 323 Old 05-31-2007, 09:35 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Sean Nelson's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Vancouver BC, Canada
Posts: 3,304
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by slprp1 View Post

Generally, price match policies exclude "clearance" or "as is" type goods!

Well, for them the alternative would have been for me to return their unit and go buy the one at Best Buy. Then they'd be stuck with an open box unit they'd have to sell at a discount. Future Shop and Best Buy are all the same anyway, so it didn't really make a lot of sense for them to turn me down.
Sean Nelson is offline  
post #284 of 323 Old 06-01-2007, 12:52 PM
vex
Member
 
vex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 72
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
thanks for the heads up sean.just picked up my 640 at best buy cambie 299 + tax. i could have got an open box for 269 but i was afraid if i neededan exchange they would be gone.

ps still 2 left at best buy cambie street, 3 left at futureshop surrey@472+tax

thanxs again
vex is offline  
post #285 of 323 Old 06-01-2007, 01:17 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Sean Nelson's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Vancouver BC, Canada
Posts: 3,304
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by vex View Post

thanks for the heads up sean.

No problemo! The price is too good to pass up, and I'm really happy for everyone that can benefit!
Sean Nelson is offline  
post #286 of 323 Old 06-04-2007, 06:15 PM
Member
 
baskerville's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Toronto,ON
Posts: 19
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
This appears to be a new model from Pioneer (perhaps for the Canadian market only). I saw it at Costco in Scarborough (TORONTO). It was manufactured in ARRIL/07. It's similar to the "640" with a 160 gig HDD and has similar input/outputs,
but with a few exceptions.

MINUS- no USB
PLUS- HDMI out (1080p)

The remote appears to be the same as the "640" remote.

PRICE: $450
baskerville is offline  
post #287 of 323 Old 06-05-2007, 12:54 PM
vex
Member
 
vex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 72
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
since i have a 46" sony lcd hdtv and a 1080p reciever this might be a consideration to buy the new costco version. would this new dvr-450h-s give me better benefits than my 640 which i could return within the next 3 weeks? any advice would be appreciated.

p.s i am canadian
vex is offline  
post #288 of 323 Old 06-05-2007, 04:46 PM
Member
 
arciervo's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 124
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by baskerville View Post

This appears to be a new model from Pioneer (perhaps for the Canadian market only). I saw it at Costco in Scarborough (TORONTO). It was manufactured in ARRIL/07. It's similar to the "640" with a 160 gig HDD and has similar input/outputs,
but with a few exceptions.

MINUS- no USB
PLUS- HDMI out (1080p)

The remote appears to be the same as the "640" remote.

PRICE: $450

This is probably the same model as shown in the Costco Canada "Summer Savings Coupon Book"; from July 16 to 22, a $60 off coupon is in effect.

I've been looking out for these at my local (Kanata) Costco but (at least as of yesterday) they still haven't arrived.

Tony
arciervo is offline  
post #289 of 323 Old 06-05-2007, 07:46 PM
Advanced Member
 
JKR1963's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 671
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Liked: 32
I just came back from the Edmonton NE Future Shop. They have a bunch of DVR-650H B and DVR-550H B in stock. Both have 1080p upscale via HDMI and 250GB and 160GB respectively. They did not have any out of the box yet, and no prices were shown.......both are Black with the same white remote as last yr. They have the USB input, but the box did not show if there is a DV input (I want one!).
JKR1963 is offline  
post #290 of 323 Old 06-05-2007, 08:27 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Sean Nelson's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Vancouver BC, Canada
Posts: 3,304
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by vex View Post

would this new dvr-450h-s give me better benefits than my 640 which i could return within the next 3 weeks?

Until someone gets one and reports on it we won't know for sure, but it's very unlikely that the 450 will give you noticeably better quality than the 640 with a component connection. At it's heart it still has analogue inputs, tuner, and records in SD-resolution.

BTW, you might want to check to see if the Best Buy in your area is still clearing out the Pio 640's at Cdn$299.97. I was able to get an additional $55.00 refund from Future Shop on my 640 purchase when I found this price at the Best Buy on Cambie and 6th here in Vancouver.
Sean Nelson is offline  
post #291 of 323 Old 06-05-2007, 10:29 PM
vex
Member
 
vex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 72
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
i got mine for 299@bestbuy cambie thanks to you sean.are they discounting even more now? glad to hear you got an even better deal,god i love deals. i really enjoy buying things at discount,especially when we the consumer have the upper hand with up to date info and the sharing of info that comes from all the wonderful avs posters here
vex is offline  
post #292 of 323 Old 06-06-2007, 01:35 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Sean Nelson's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Vancouver BC, Canada
Posts: 3,304
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by vex View Post

i got mine for 299@bestbuy cambie thanks to you sean.are they discounting even more now?

No, the Best Buy price was $299. But I had already bought one at Future Shop at their sale price of $349, so I went back to them with Best Buy's price and they refunded $55 on their "match the competitor's price" policy (refund the difference plus 10%). Silly realy, because Best Buy and Future Shop are actually the same company....
Sean Nelson is offline  
post #293 of 323 Old 06-06-2007, 08:21 AM
Member
 
baskerville's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Toronto,ON
Posts: 19
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by JKR1963 View Post

I just came back from the Edmonton NE Future Shop. They have a bunch of DVR-650H B and DVR-550H B in stock. Both have 1080p upscale via HDMI and 250GB and 160GB respectively. They did not have any out of the box yet, and no prices were shown.......both are Black with the same white remote as last yr. They have the USB input, but the box did not show if there is a DV input (I want one!).

Both of those models DO HAVE a DV input and 2 USB ports (Type A & Type B).
The DVR-450H-S (160 GB) has none of the above ports, but does have HDMI out.
baskerville is offline  
post #294 of 323 Old 06-06-2007, 11:11 AM
Member
 
Seeker47's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 195
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by baskerville View Post

Both of those models DO HAVE a DV input and 2 USB ports (Type A & Type B).
The DVR-450H-S (160 GB) has none of the above ports, but does have HDMI out.

Never heard of either. Are these Euro models, adapted for NTSC and your electrics ? Or the successor N. Amer. models that we won't be seeing here in the U.S. ?
Seeker47 is offline  
post #295 of 323 Old 06-06-2007, 11:27 AM
AVS Special Member
 
JeffWld's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Toronto, Ontario Canada
Posts: 1,397
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seeker47 View Post

Never heard of either. Are these Euro models, adapted for NTSC and your electrics ? Or the successor N. Amer. models that we won't be seeing here in the U.S. ?

I just got back from Best Buy and had a quick look at the 550 and 650. It appears that they only have analog tuners, so there won't be any U.S. release. It is possible that Pioneer could be planning a U.S. version that includes a digital tuner. As an aside, they do look quite nice in black.
JeffWld is offline  
post #296 of 323 Old 06-06-2007, 11:33 AM
Advanced Member
 
JKR1963's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 671
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Liked: 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seeker47 View Post

Never heard of either. Are these Euro models, adapted for NTSC and your electrics ? Or the successor N. Amer. models that we won't be seeing here in the U.S. ?

Definately successor models, Canada does not get European model products. I see there are European Pioneer models with Digital/Analog tuners so I am not sure why the US and Canada can't have such products.
JKR1963 is offline  
post #297 of 323 Old 06-06-2007, 12:12 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Sean Nelson's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Vancouver BC, Canada
Posts: 3,304
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 17
The availability of these units in Canada gives a lot of credence to the theory that it's the mandatory digital tuners that are keeping these units out of the US for at least the current generation.

The theory that says the US market isn't big enough is starting to seem less likely - America has over 10 times the population of Canada. If they think they can make money in the Canadian market then presumably they'd be able to make money in the American market as long as the per-capita purchase rate is no worse than 1/10th that in Canada.

America has TIVO, but I can't see it making that big a difference given that it's just one of the competing units with the same sort of Cable and Satellite PVR boxes used in Canada.
Sean Nelson is offline  
post #298 of 323 Old 06-06-2007, 03:42 PM
AVS Special Member
 
ncaahoops's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 2,072
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean Nelson View Post

The availability of these units in Canada gives a lot of credence to the theory that it's the mandatory digital tuners that are keeping these units out of the US for at least the current generation.

The theory that says the US market isn't big enough is starting to seem less likely - America has over 10 times the population of Canada. If they think they can make money in the Canadian market then presumably they'd be able to make money in the American market as long as the per-capita purchase rate is no worse than 1/10th that in Canada.

America has TIVO, but I can't see it making that big a difference given that it's just one of the competing units with the same sort of Cable and Satellite PVR boxes used in Canada.

Yeah, I don't think it's a market size issue for the US market. It's probably a combination of factors and the timing of various mandated restrictions (analog/digital tuners, requirement to have digital tuners, cable cards, legal actions, etc)

Boldly trying a new DVR: http://moto3416review.blogspot.com/
ncaahoops is offline  
post #299 of 323 Old 06-06-2007, 07:13 PM
Advanced Member
 
ACPewty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 889
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean Nelson View Post

America has TIVO, but I can't see it making that big a difference given that it's just one of the competing units with the same sort of Cable and Satellite PVR boxes used in Canada.

I agree except that Tivo has US patent(s) for a "MULTIMEDIA TIME WARPING SYSTEM" and "METHOD AND APPARATUS IMPLEMENTING RANDOM ACCESS AND TIME-BASED FUNCTIONS ON A CONTINUOUS STREAM OF FORMATTED DIGITAL DATA" which they seem to be willing to defend.

Interestingly, the links are from the Canadian Patents database, but it may be just entries for the US patents...not sure how the listings work. Maybe since they don't actually operate in Canada (yet) it would make an easy defense for other manufacturers Tivo might try to sue? As described in this thread , there are additional legal reasons why manufacturers might be leery of selling in the US right now.
ACPewty is offline  
post #300 of 323 Old 06-07-2007, 11:32 AM
Member
 
Seeker47's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 195
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by ncaahoops View Post

Yeah, I don't think it's a market size issue for the US market. It's probably a combination of factors and the timing of various mandated restrictions (analog/digital tuners, requirement to have digital tuners, cable cards, legal actions, etc)

I need to check out the thread AC refers to, but I think you are correct that there are likely multiple factors at work.

Sean wrote: "America has TIVO, but I can't see it making that big a difference given that it's just one of the competing units with the same sort of Cable and Satellite PVR boxes used in Canada."

Well, I think there is more than a little truth in several of these theories. The Cable / Sat PVR boxes are a path of least resistance. You rent them for a modest additional charge, instead of a big upfront purchase, and you don't have to be very proactive in terms of product research or scoping out the best deal. Your service compatibility is assured. You likely don't even have to know how to hook it up, as a service provider tech can do it for you. From what I'm hearing, the learning curve may be far less than with a Pioneer DVDR . . . even though it is much easier to learn and use than most of the more capable, competing DVDRs. (And probably the cheap and crappy Chinese units, too.) Never underestimate the percentage of techno-clueless consumers.

TIVO is going to occupy somewhat of a more grey, middle-ground. But a lot of the market does not seem to be that interested in archiving to DVD; timeshifting is quite sufficient for them, with far fewer variables to worry about.

There is also something to the "many U.S. consumers are cheap" angle. Walmart and Target reign supreme here. But this idea only goes so far. If you read those (previously linked) company balance sheet reports and the Pioneer press releases, you could legitimately conclude that higher-end DVDRs were a big disappointment for them in this market, and they made a business decision to pull the plug. And even cease further development on new models. But the newer Euro models and these new Canadian models seem to indicate that Pioneer has backpedaled on those decisions -- at least for certain markets.

I think AC may really be on to something, with his patents, industry pressure, and litigation fears speculation, and I'll probably have some comment for the other thread.

As a sort of bottom line, though, I do have a problem imagining that there is no sufficient market for these things stateside. I count at least three hardcopy publications devoted to high end video gear. (Not to mention all the online forums and websites.) A significant number of people seem to have at-least-moderately-fancy home theatre setups. If you are going to go that far, how can you not have a good DVDR with archive-to-disk capability ? Your HT installation would be very incomplete without it.
Seeker47 is offline  
Reply DVD Recorders (Standard Def)

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off