Pioneer 640 getting scarce - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 323 Old 03-13-2007, 09:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelson View Post

Hopefully, people are not so foolish as to still be handing over their real credit card numbers over the internet (or phone). Just about every major credit card issuer offers their cardholders a service whereby one can log into their credit card account and generate an alias card number to use for on-line purchases. My Visa issuer provides me with "ShopSafe" which allows me to generate an alias card number in which I specify the max $ amount it is good for and how many months the number will be active before it expires and disappears. In addition, the alias number is only good for a single Etailer. I have full control over that alias and can cancel it at any time so I never have to worry that an Etailer may have my number after I cancel an order.

This is not an unique service, most card issuers offer some variant of this. Check you account's website.

This is a great service, with the card acting much like a Purchase Order, where you have control over the time it is valid and the amount that may be charged! Definitely worth looking into! Both for questionable companies, as well as companies which have a reputation for onerous terms or cancellation policies, such as Gyms, etc...

Theron

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post #92 of 323 Old 03-13-2007, 10:15 AM
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Kelson,
Help me understand the more subtle implications of using an alias card number.

If alias card numbers work like purchase orders, where you obtain them as needed, any issues getting refunds for cancelled/returned orders properly credited to your account (if alias card number has subsequently expired)?

If, on the other hand, one leaves "large limit - essentially unused" alias card numbers active for long periods, and since they are only good for a specific e-tailer (as you indicate), does this deplete your credit line?

I can envision getting several "$1000 limit" alias card numbers - one for each of many e-tailers I do business with - and then being notified by the CC issuer I no longer have any credit line available for B&M purchases.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelson View Post

Hopefully, people are not so foolish as to still be handing over their real credit card numbers over the internet (or phone). Just about every major credit card issuer offers their cardholders a service whereby one can log into their credit card account and generate an alias card number to use for on-line purchases. My Visa issuer provides me with "ShopSafe" which allows me to generate an alias card number in which I specify the max $ amount it is good for and how many months the number will be active before it expires and disappears. In addition, the alias number is only good for a single Etailer. I have full control over that alias and can cancel it at any time so I never have to worry that an Etailer may have my number after I cancel an order.

This is not an unique service, most card issuers offer some variant of this. Check you account's website.

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post #93 of 323 Old 03-13-2007, 10:56 AM
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I just found an open box DVR-640H today at my local futureshop here in canada. Picked it up and took it home.
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post #94 of 323 Old 03-13-2007, 12:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelson View Post

Hopefully, people are not so foolish as to still be handing over their real credit card numbers over the internet (or phone). Just about every major credit card issuer offers their cardholders a service whereby one can log into their credit card account and generate an alias card number to use for on-line purchases. My Visa issuer provides me with "ShopSafe" which allows me to generate an alias card number in which I specify the max $ amount it is good for and how many months the number will be active before it expires and disappears. In addition, the alias number is only good for a single Etailer. I have full control over that alias and can cancel it at any time so I never have to worry that an Etailer may have my number after I cancel an order.

This is not an unique service, most card issuers offer some variant of this. Check you account's website.

Discover has this service also. I use it all the time and it works great.

RG
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post #95 of 323 Old 03-13-2007, 01:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garyjo View Post

Kelson,
Help me understand the more subtle implications of using an alias card number.

If alias card numbers work like purchase orders, where you obtain them as needed, any issues getting refunds for cancelled/returned orders properly credited to your account (if alias card number has subsequently expired)?

If, on the other hand, one leaves "large limit - essentially unused" alias card numbers active for long periods, and since they are only good for a specific e-tailer (as you indicate), does this deplete your credit line?

I can envision getting several "$1000 limit" alias card numbers - one for each of many e-tailers I do business with - and then being notified by the CC issuer I no longer have any credit line available for B&M purchases.

I looked at my card's web page, and they had these listed as a couple of examples:

Quote:


Multiple transactions

If you plan to spend $200 with the same merchant over 6 months, just enter the amount and number of months. (Your account will only be charged if and when you make a purchase.)

Recurring payments

To pay a monthly subscription charge of $21.95 per month for one year, enter '$264 over 12 months'.

I don't think the purchase limits have anything to do with your account's credit limit, but it also said elsewhere that you could still not charge above your existing account limit. That second example is especially telling, since it would be easily possible to have a recurring payment that when added up over the entire time would surpass the account's credit limit.

Hope that helps.

Theron

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post #96 of 323 Old 03-13-2007, 03:05 PM
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They may not be on the web site any more, but at least a couple of the Future Shops here in Vancouver still have Pioneer 640s. I picked one up from the downtown store today for Cdn$399, and they had a second box on the shelf in addition to the show model. The store at Metrotown in Burnaby has a show model on the shelf but no boxes (but perhaps they have some in the back).
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post #97 of 323 Old 03-13-2007, 03:39 PM
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Thx for the info, TPKeller. I have a VISA CC with Chase.
Chase is aware of this service, but sadly, does not offer it!
And they have no current plans to do so.

I then checked with contacts at Citi and Bank of America.
Both banks offer this service.

Citi for the last 5 years - calling it "Virtual Account Numbers."
You download software which places an icon on your desktop.
As you are ready to complete a purchase with an e-tailer, you click
on the icon which in turn generates a virtual CC number - for that
transaction only.

Use of that specific virtual account number reduces your credit limit.
Should the e-tailer need to return a credit, they issue the credit against
that "virtual account number"... which in turn finds its way back to your
actual CC acount.

I suspect the Bank of Amer "ShopSafe" version operates similarly.

Seems I need to redirect my internet CC purchases to either a Bank of
Amer or Citi CC, to use this service. And put my Chase CC in the drawer.


Quote:
Originally Posted by TPKeller2 View Post

I looked at my card's web page, and they had these listed as a couple of examples:

I don't think the purchase limits have anything to do with your account's credit limit, but it also said elsewhere that you could still not charge above your existing account limit. That second example is especially telling, since it would be easily possible to have a recurring payment that when added up over the entire time would surpass the account's credit limit.

Hope that helps.

Theron

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post #98 of 323 Old 03-13-2007, 03:46 PM
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I'm glad to hear you found a Pio640.

I suspect they are still available in the US - but it will require
us to begin checking out B&M stores. And hope we get as lucky.

I am doubtful we will locate any Pio640s through additional internet search.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean Nelson View Post

They may not be on the web site any more, but at least a couple of the Future Shops here in Vancouver still have Pioneer 640s. I picked one up from the downtown store today for Cdn$399, and they had a second box on the shelf in addition to the show model. The store at Metrotown in Burnaby has a show model on the shelf but no boxes (but perhaps they have some in the back).

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post #99 of 323 Old 03-13-2007, 03:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garyjo View Post

I'm glad to hear you found a Pio640.

I suspect they are still available in the US - but it will require
us to begin checking out B&M stores. And hope we get as lucky.

I am doubtful we will locate any Pio640s through additional internet search.

But what are the B&M stores that carry it? All I have near me is Best Buy and Circuit City. Has anyone talked about where it can be found in the US on a shelf? Maybe I missed it... ?

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post #100 of 323 Old 03-13-2007, 04:35 PM
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Do you have any specialty electronics stores near you?
I have heard from retailers that if they want to be a Pioneer dealer they need to carry the entire line.

A suggestion....
Check the yellow pages for Pioneer dealers.
Start calling them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TPKeller2 View Post

But what are the B&M stores that carry it? All I have near me is Best Buy and Circuit City. Has anyone talked about where it can be found in the US on a shelf? Maybe I missed it... ?

Theron

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post #101 of 323 Old 03-14-2007, 01:42 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelson View Post

I see it mentioned twice in your FAQ that interstate Internet sales are also banned. That would seem to make most people out of luck unless the distribution point was in their state. Yet, I have checked a number of E-retailers who list analog-only products on their web-sites (Panasonic non-HDD units are still plentiful) and there doesn't seem to be any restriction as to where they will ship.

The possible loophole is that major retailers (I.E. Circuit City) have distribution centers in multiple cities across the country which could have be stocked prior to 3/1/07. This allows them to still ship to their stores within those regions and supply online orders as well for as long as they want.
.....some creative thinking is all it takes!
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post #102 of 323 Old 03-14-2007, 03:30 AM
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Retailers are still offering NTSC units...if they have any... because they're allowed to according to the FCC Rule. The Veritas FAQ is wrong on this point.

Here's the pertinent Section 2.909 that is referenced everywhere in the Rule as the "Responsible Parties" to whom the Rule applies.

Here's the entire section in case you don't want to read the link... suppliers/sellers/modifiers only become Responsible Parties if they choose to take that resp. from the mfgrs/assemblers/importers (c.3, c.4):

"Sec. 2.909 Responsible party.

The following parties are responsible for the compliance of radio frequency
equipment with the applicable standards:

(a) In the case of equipment which requires the issuance by the Commission
of a grant of equipment authorization, the party to whom that grant of
authorization is issued (the grantee) If the radio frequency equipment is
modified by any party other than the grantee and that party is not working
under the authorization of the grantee pursuant to Sec. 2.929(b), the party
performing the modification is responsible for compliance of the product
with the applicable administrative and technical provisions in this chapter.

(b) In the case of equipment subject to authorization under the verification
procedure, the manufacturer or, in the case of imported equipment, the
importer. If subsequent to manufacture and importation, the radio frequency
equipment is modified by any party not working under the authority of the
responsible party, the party performing the modification becomes the new
responsible party.

(c) In the case of equipment subject to authorization under the Declaration
of Conformity procedure:

(1) The manufacturer or, if the equipment is assembled from individual
component parts and the resulting system is subject to authorization under a
Declaration of Conformity, the assembler.

(2) If the equipment, by itself, is subject to a Declaration of Conformity
and that equipment is imported, the importer.

(3) Retailers or original equipment manufacturers may enter into an
agreement with the responsible party designated in paragraph (c)(1) or
(c)(2) of this section to assume the responsibilities to ensure compliance
of equipment and become the new responsible party.

(4) If the radio frequency equipment is modified by any party not working
under the authority of the responsible party, the party performing the
modifications, if located within the U.S., or the importer, if the equipment
is imported subsequent to the modifications, becomes the new responsible
party.

(d) If, because of modifications performed subsequent to authorization, a
new party becomes responsible for ensuring that a product complies with the
technical standards and the new party does not obtain a new equipment
authorization, the equipment shall be labelled, following the specifications
in Sec. 2.925(d), with the following: “This product has been modified by [insert name, address and telephone number of the party performing the
modifications]."
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post #103 of 323 Old 03-14-2007, 08:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garyjo View Post

ngohit,
I just got off the phone with CDW, cust ser (Karen x30120), after cancelling my order.

CDW ordered 49 from their distributor, but are only getting 4 next week *at most*. ..

I am replying to this posting because it's the last one on CDW (via a thread search).

I just got off the phone to check the status of the delivery of 640Hs they were originally expecting the 12th. The delivery date has been pushed back to March 23rd and the fellow said it could possibly be pushed back again--the 23rd (in his mind) is not a set in stone date. The number they are expecting to get he did not know [maybe someone else there does???].

When I placed my order I was #51:51 in the queue. Well, as of today, CDW has 33 640Hs on back order and I have move up dramatically--I am now #10.
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post #104 of 323 Old 03-14-2007, 01:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rgazzara View Post

Discover has this service also. I use it all the time and it works great.

And of course there is always P*yP*l. (asterisks because it may get bleeped here, the way many URLs do.)

"Shop Without Sharing Your Financial Information
When you pay with PayPal, your credit card and bank numbers are never seen by the seller or merchant. Your financial information stays safe. Plus, you're protected 100% against unauthorized payments sent from your account."

I'm not aware of anything like a Purchase Order in their service, though, and you should not assume I'm recommending them. Some people really seem to like them, and plenty of others really don't.
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post #105 of 323 Old 03-14-2007, 01:54 PM
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Pio640s could still be ordered online at the CDW site earlier today. They were listing 11 bus days before orders would ship. I checked back around 2pm, and it has been changed. You can no longer order Pio640s online.

CDW advises the Pio640 is now "officially discontinued".
As of 4pm today, I being told all active orders are being cancelled.

I suggest AVS members call CDW and confirm status of their order.



Quote:
Originally Posted by ngohit View Post

I am replying to this posting because it's the last one on CDW (via a thread search).

I just got off the phone to check the status of the delivery of 640Hs they were originally expecting the 12th. The delivery date has been pushed back to March 23rd and the fellow said it could possibly be pushed back again--the 23rd (in his mind) is not a set in stone date. The number they are expecting to get he did not know [maybe someone else there does???].

When I placed my order I was #51:51 in the queue. Well, as of today, CDW has 33 640Hs on back order and I have move up dramatically--I am now #10.

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post #106 of 323 Old 03-14-2007, 01:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nextoo View Post

Is this where you meant? The Pioneer DVR-745H? 400GB HDD. Both PAL and NTSC tuner.

http://www.world-import.com/dvr-745h.htm

The ones in Japan will not work here - NTSC-J I believe.

Yes, and I think there was also a higher int'l. model (945 ?), probably both mentioned in one of the Pioneer dvr threads here before. If they happened to be in stock, the NTSC capability was viable for N. America, these models were close enough in features to the 640, and one's pockets were deep enough, it could still theoretically be an option. A lot of "ifs", I know. You'd have to want it pretty bad, though.

[quote=wabjxo]
Or maybe this one:
http://www.220-electronics.com

I've seen this link before as well.
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post #107 of 323 Old 03-14-2007, 02:22 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ngohit View Post

I am replying to this posting because it's the last one on CDW (via a thread search).

I just got off the phone to check the status of the delivery of 640Hs they were originally expecting the 12th. The delivery date has been pushed back to March 23rd and the fellow said it could possibly be pushed back again--the 23rd (in his mind) is not a set in stone date. The number they are expecting to get he did not know [maybe someone else there does???].

When I placed my order I was #51:51 in the queue. Well, as of today, CDW has 33 640Hs on back order and I have move up dramatically--I am now #10.

Unfortunately (and as predicted) CDW will not be receiving ANY 640's. This was an empty promise based on an anticipated delivery which they are NOT receiving. I spoke with a supervisor at the corporate office in response to an e-mail I received telling me, point blank, that they are no longer anticipating a delivery. He confirmed, in no uncertain terms, that they will not be coming in. In fact, if you check their website as of today, you will see no ETA whatsoever (this status changed today and it correlates with the info. I received). They were probably a low priority with Pioneer to begin with, as they placed their first order in January, while all along other dealers were selling them since day one (back in 2006). It is very possible that Pioneer exhausted their inventory before they could fill the order and/or could no longer ship (due to the overblown FCC ruling). It seems as if retailers are not the only ones making false promises to customers. I suspect that the manufacturers and/or distributors play the same games with the distribution chain. Perhaps it comes down to greed. The manufacturers and/or distributors may use the funds from an anticipated (major) purchase by a retailer based upon speculation (this is just a guess but is not at all unrealistic). Any way you slice it, it's bad business politics at every level!
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post #108 of 323 Old 03-14-2007, 04:38 PM
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It'd be interesting to hear from Pioneer what's going on. In my experience with them both with personal orders and with work orders, CDW has pretty much impeccable customer service, and they've really bent over backwards to get me products on time... I have a feeling Pioneer underestimated the "final demand", and/or length of shipment times, and pulled orders out from everyone, since it seems like so many stores had their orders cancelled.

Of course, I wonder if there's a chance some big store put in a HUGE final order (sucking supply from all these little places) and we might randomly see supply show up at one specific chain or something.

The whole situation does suck, and I don't like how heavy handed the mandate was. Seems like a big warning sticker would've been good enough.
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post #109 of 323 Old 03-14-2007, 05:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmscott42 View Post

... I have a feeling Pioneer underestimated the "final demand", and/or length of shipment times, and pulled orders out from everyone, since it seems like so many stores had their orders cancelled.

Of course, I wonder if there's a chance some big store put in a HUGE final order (sucking supply from all these little places) and we might randomly see supply show up at one specific chain or something.

The whole situation does suck, and I don't like how heavy handed the mandate was. Seems like a big warning sticker would've been good enough.

Going paragraph by paragraph:

1. Added to this, I have the feeling Pioneer did not increase the number of machines manufactured for the U.S.A. (and Canada?) when 640Hs intended for the channel ended up being given to consumers in exchange for their TVGOS defective 2005 units. There were a LOT of people who got their 640Hs this way.

2. This would not surprise me at all. I read an article in the WSJ a few years ago how one particular big-name corporation basically strong-armed companies from which it got products. The one example I remember was Rubbermaid, which was basically like a slave to HUGE chain. Smaller Rubbermaid customers were at a disadvantage, at times, due to the strong-arming and demands. This unnamed (get creative, you'll know it's name) bully demanded it get what it wanted, when it wanted, to the detriment of Rubbermaid's other customers, at times.

I wouldn't be bug-eyed, if this is happening now. You could be right-on, here, jmscott42, let's see if one of Pioneer's resellers suddenly has some 640Hs to sell while no other authorized resellers do.

3. Definitely. All that would have been needed is a, "Buyer Beware," sticker, explaining the situation.
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post #110 of 323 Old 03-14-2007, 08:21 PM
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Heavy handed???

Come on guys. The transition has been phased in for 3 years and spelled out in published documents. If the manufacturers didn't believe it and didn't prepare for it, that's their bad. What we are seeing may be more a reflection of the market size and the value it generates more than anything else.

I doubt Pioneer makes these things continuously. They have a prduction run to fill a warehouse and feed the channel with subsequent runs scheduled based on demand and product life-cycle. Going by the declining number of retailers for the 640 listed in PriceGrabber over the past months, it may be that they just emptied the warehouse and ran out. They probably haven't had a production run since last summer. It would be interesting if those who were able to recently acquire a 640 would look on the sticker on the back and post the production date.

- kelson h

The bitterness of poor quality lasts long after the sweetness of the low price is forgotten . . . life is too short to drink bad wine

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post #111 of 323 Old 03-14-2007, 09:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelson View Post

It would be interesting if those who were able to recently acquire a 640 would look on the sticker on the back and post the production date.

The one I bought yesterday is marked "September 2006"...
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post #112 of 323 Old 03-15-2007, 06:25 AM
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Thanks Sean,
You probably got one of the last ones available so I would not be surprised if production of the 640 ended 6 months ago.

- kelson h

The bitterness of poor quality lasts long after the sweetness of the low price is forgotten . . . life is too short to drink bad wine

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post #113 of 323 Old 03-15-2007, 06:31 AM
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Kelson: I got mine directly from Pioneer in December. It was manufactured in October 2006.
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post #114 of 323 Old 03-15-2007, 01:12 PM
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I got mine just a month ago from B&H in New York just a few days before they disappeared from that retailer. The box was unopened and all the wrapping was new. Unit works fine, but the manufacture date was April 2006. I guess they found a pile of them at the back of somebody's storage.

Ed
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post #115 of 323 Old 03-15-2007, 01:44 PM
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Mine is marked September 2006 aswell.
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post #116 of 323 Old 03-15-2007, 09:20 PM
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Seems easier to locate new Pan EH55s than new Pio640s.

Picked up 2nd Pan EH55 in less than a week from
another Circuit City store.

Another store demo. Again, never used.

This one was in IN.
They are doing an interstore transfer.
Just too far to drive 400 RT.

Interstore transfers not common with this item.
It is not found in CC database.
Only carried by select few "superstores."
But challenge overcome.
Great to know some CC mgrs willing to break the rules.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean Nelson View Post

They may not be on the web site any more, but at least a couple of the Future Shops here in Vancouver still have Pioneer 640s. I picked one up from the downtown store today for Cdn$399, and they had a second box on the shelf in addition to the show model. The store at Metrotown in Burnaby has a show model on the shelf but no boxes (but perhaps they have some in the back).

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post #117 of 323 Old 03-16-2007, 05:13 AM
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I found a Pioneer 640 at 2 different Rex stores for 319. Both are shelf units that they say have not been used. Both are the last ones. I have one being saved until quit time tonight. Has June 2006 build date, the other I forgot to look. I am struggling to decide if to buy. Are there any HDD recorders coming out soon? I have a 5 year old Panny E20 single disk recorder and always wanted a HDD model. The only thing holding me back is not getting all the features I want in one box. I was leaning toward the Sony 715 because of DL burning, 12 bit DAC, and component-in (I think, or at least the ability to force 16:9 recording) and good reviews on picture quality. The thing I don't like is the lack of flex record or the ability to have a lot of recording speeds like the Pio. I like the Pio 640, except it is important to me to set 16:9 flag and I'm not sure if I can. Also, I have a Motorola 1612 cable box, and subscribe to HiDef, but I don't think I can output a 16:9 signal. Any thoughts?
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post #118 of 323 Old 03-16-2007, 06:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fas View Post

Are there any HDD recorders coming out soon?

See the first post in the Summary of ATSC Recorders thread which is floating near the top of this forum. At the moment it lists one model with HDD.
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post #119 of 323 Old 03-16-2007, 07:32 AM
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Elec Warehouse (Nathan) cancelled my Pio640 order this morning.
Reason: Pio640 now "officially discontinued."

Rumor of a "boat at sea" with an "unknown number of Pio640s"
is no longer being discussed.

When I mentioned there was no announcement of a successor to the Pio640
at 2007 CES, Nathan said wait until May-June for a possible announcement.
A glimmer of hope?


Quote:
Originally Posted by garyjo View Post

Seems easier to locate new Pan EH55s than new Pio640s.

Picked up 2nd Pan EH55 in less than a week from
another Circuit City store.

Another store demo. Again, never used.

This one was in IN.
They are doing an interstore transfer.
Just too far to drive 400 RT.

Interstore transfers not common with this item.
It is not found in CC database.
Only carried by select few "superstores."
But challenge overcome.
Great to know some CC mgrs willing to break the rules.

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post #120 of 323 Old 03-16-2007, 07:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garyjo View Post

Seems easier to locate new Pan EH55s than new Pio640s.

Picked up 2nd Pan EH55 in less than a week from
another Circuit City store..........

I found an open box EH55 on Amazon Marketplace last night for $100 below list. $19 for shipping. So there still are a few around. I must have timed it just right because I had looked there before. Reputable seller so I snatched it up.
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