Pioneer 640 getting scarce - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 323 Old 03-02-2007, 11:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Just thought I'd point it out here in case anybody was waiting for the price to come down before buying one (like I was). I ended up ordering one from B&H for $400 despite prices just a month or two ago of ~$340. Fortunately I did it as part of a promotion on one of my credit cards which will end up knocking 20% off that price.

And yes, I know that it doesn't have an ATSC tuner and thus will be "obsolete" in a couple of years. I'm doing a lot of VHS archiving and sometimes use the DL capability of my Pioneer 633, the 640 will allow me to save $2/disc on those DL burns. That and having a second recorder since moving the Panasonic E85H into the bedroom is the main motivation for this purchase. The lack of ATSC tuner won't stop my VHS archiving, and with cable as opposed to OTA, I expect to use the NTSC tuner for a fair bit longer. If not I'll just take straight A/V from the STB.
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post #2 of 323 Old 03-03-2007, 07:31 AM
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I wouldn't say it will be obsolete...if you want to record OTA only, like me, then yes it will present a different challenge.

Heck, one could argue that Beta-max isn't obsolete and it has inputs and you can still purchase blank media

At no point in your rambling, incoherent post were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this forum is now dumber for having read it.

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post #3 of 323 Old 03-03-2007, 07:36 AM
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I just picked one up for $348 at http://www.hypeaudio.net/item.aspx?pid=103093 - they have them in stock.

I am not even going to unbox it - it is going straight to Pioneer technical services for the firmware upgrade so that I can see titles listed with their actual names instead of just the date and time.

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post #4 of 323 Old 03-03-2007, 12:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sivartk View Post

I wouldn't say it will be obsolete...

Nor would I, hence the quotes around "obsolete". That second paragraph was to pre-empt posts I was expecting along the lines that the Pioneer 640 is already obsolete due to its lack of ATSC tuner.

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Originally Posted by PCdoc7 View Post

I just picked one up for $348 at http://www.hypeaudio.net/item.aspx?pid=103093 - they have them in stock.

Yeah, I also saw them in stock at Hypeaudio (and a couple of other not-so-familiar stores), but preferred to stick with an Authorized Pioneer Reseller.
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post #5 of 323 Old 03-04-2007, 07:19 PM
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$389 now at Hypeaudio and Pioneer might not honor the warranty from an unauthorized dealer.

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post #6 of 323 Old 03-05-2007, 10:31 AM
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post #7 of 323 Old 03-05-2007, 01:01 PM
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...going...going...and now gone?

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post #8 of 323 Old 03-05-2007, 01:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Looks like I acted just in time. Mine shows up on Friday.
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post #9 of 323 Old 03-05-2007, 02:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobkart View Post

It doesn't have an ATSC tuner and thus will be "obsolete" in a couple of years.

This may have been mentioned on another thread, but in all honesty don't you imagine that they will have to come up with some type of converter box that will allow your Pioneer 640 (and many others) to still record Over The Air broadcasts?

I just can't settle for the fact that we will have to throw the unit out (unless using it for VHS, etc..., transfers) and won't be able to record on it from it's internal tuner anymore. I know as is...we won't, but they have to come up with something that will let us and whoever creates it will make a fortune.

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post #10 of 323 Old 03-05-2007, 02:25 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by suplex View Post

. . . some type of converter box that will allow your Pioneer 640 (and many others) to still record Over The Air broadcasts?

It's an ATSC Tuner that does that.

For example: http://store.grandtec.com/airviattu.html

Or, if you're using cable, the cable box will do it. Less of an issue there since the mandate doesn't apply to cable, just OTA.
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post #11 of 323 Old 03-05-2007, 02:32 PM
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What's really an unknown is whether or not these ATSC tuner boxes, that will be supplied at "resonable cost" after the shut-down, will have the capability of being controlled by the IR blaster of the DVDR. If not, I would find the unit pretty useless since I could not schedule unattended recordings.

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post #12 of 323 Old 03-05-2007, 08:08 PM
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Nothing wrong with recording direct from HD cable/SAT box- never gonna be obsolete that way and if you have an HDTV that helps.

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post #13 of 323 Old 03-06-2007, 05:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelson View Post

What's really an unknown is whether or not these ATSC tuner boxes, that will be supplied at "resonable cost" after the shut-down, will have the capability of being controlled by the IR blaster of the DVDR. If not, I would find the unit pretty useless since I could not schedule unattended recordings.

Perhaps some of the converter boxes will have timers so that you could set the box to come on at a programmed time and tuned to a certain channel. That would work.

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post #14 of 323 Old 03-06-2007, 10:02 AM
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I was thinking of getting one of these, yes, even though I am a Panasonic guy. I did a bunch of searching and pricing on Friday. By Monday (yesterday) the two best sources were showing no longer in stock. The sources that did show in stock were the kind of companies that had mediocre to poor customer ratings. Alas, I fear I've waited too long. My window of opportunity has closed.

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post #15 of 323 Old 03-06-2007, 10:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Church AV Guy View Post

I was thinking of getting one of these, yes, even though I am a Panasonic guy. I did a bunch of searching and pricing on Friday. By Monday (yesterday) the two best sources were showing no longer in stock. The sources that did show in stock were the kind of companies that had mediocre to poor customer ratings. Alas, I fear I've waited too long. My window of opportunity has closed.

I know absolutely nothing about this business, but their web page does say they have stock "available".

Proceed at your own risk!

http://www.ugotadeal.com/product_inf...oducts_id=2636

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post #16 of 323 Old 03-07-2007, 10:58 AM
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Electronic Warehouse advises they expect 15 units on March 26. Better hurry. They said units selling quickly.

http://www.4electronicwarehouse.com/...ium=comparison

For those that have not heard, Club Panasonic advises there will be no HD DVD recorders in their 2007 lineup.


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Originally Posted by TPKeller2 View Post

I know absolutely nothing about this business, but their web page does say they have stock "available".

Proceed at your own risk!

http://www.ugotadeal.com/product_inf...oducts_id=2636

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post #17 of 323 Old 03-07-2007, 01:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garyjo View Post

For those that have not heard, Club Panasonic advises there will be no HD DVD recorders in their 2007 lineup.

Is there any explanation why? Is this a temporary thing, or are they out of the US market completely? Are they waiting for BlyRay recorders, or are they thinking next year they will have models? Some of us really need to know. Panicking...

Luke

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post #18 of 323 Old 03-07-2007, 03:00 PM
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Called Club Panasonic (800-405-0652 x6) for more info on why there are no HD DVD recorders in the 2007 lineup. I was told by Daniel that Pan has focused its efforts on providing Comcast with a 250gb HD STB. When I asked her if there was an agreement with Comcast not to compete with HD DVD recorders, she said "that sounded right." Speculation, but probably close to the truth.

Comcast-Panasonic story here.
http://www.cedmagazine.com/toc-bbdir.../20060105.html


I suggest you grab a Pio 640 at Elec Warehouse before all 15 units (expected 3/26) are sold. I did. I ordered 2 of them.

http://www.4electronicwarehouse.com/...ium=comparison



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Originally Posted by Church AV Guy View Post

Is there any explanation why? Is this a temporary thing, or are they out of the US market completely? Are they waiting for BlyRay recorders, or are they thinking next year they will have models? Some of us really need to know. Panicking...

Quote:
Originally Posted by KTH View Post

The company that I work for is a Panasonic dealer and according to Panasonic the DMR-EH55 is discontinued and currently there are no plans for a HDD unit from Panasonic in 2007. According to Panasonic the market for HDD based DVD Recorders is too small.

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post #19 of 323 Old 03-07-2007, 03:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garyjo View Post

Called Club Panasonic (800-405-0652 x6) for more info on why there are no HD DVD recorders in the 2007 lineup. I was told by Daniel that Pan has focused its efforts on providing Comcast with a 250gb HD STB. When I asked her if there was an agreement with Comcast not to compete with HD DVD recorders, she said "that sounded right." Speculation, but probably close to the truth.

Well, it's not like we really needed any more reasons to not like Comcast, but I guess now we have one!

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post #20 of 323 Old 03-07-2007, 04:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Church AV Guy View Post

Is there any explanation why? Is this a temporary thing, or are they out of the US market completely? Are they waiting for BlyRay recorders, or are they thinking next year they will have models? Some of us really need to know. Panicking...

Panicking, indeed! I picture Pioneer officials sitting around a table. One says, "How can we get rid of all these Model 640s with their NTSC tuners now that we can't market them any more?"

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post #21 of 323 Old 03-08-2007, 08:00 AM
 
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Updated info:

"ugotadeal" has no stock (confirmed this morning by phone).

"4electronicwarehouse" will most likely not be receiving any more units and will have to cancel all backorders. This is a well educated guess since the regulation that went into effect 3/1/07 prohibits manufacturers from shipping any dvd recorders after 2/28/07! Since they are an authorized dealer, they would be getting units directly from Pioneer. It does not take a month for a shipment to reach them! I honestly hope I'm wrong but it doesn't look promising.
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post #22 of 323 Old 03-08-2007, 08:07 AM
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Matt at Elec Warehouse advises they receive shipments once a month, usually near the end of month. I reminded him that Pio cannot bring anymore pio 640 into the US after 3/07, and again asked him if Elec Warehouse believed their shipment of 15 units targeted for a 3/26 delivery would really be coming. Matt believed Pio would fill the order from their US warehouse.

As I understand, Pio cannot bring anymore Pio 640s into the US, but can still sell Pios already in their US warehouse until they are gone. Is this corect?



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Originally Posted by slprp1 View Post

Updated info:

"ugotadeal" has no stock (confirmed this morning by phone).

"4electronicwarehouse" will most likely not be receiving any more units and will have to cancel all backorders. This is a well educated guess since the regulation that went into effect 3/1/07 prohibits manufacturers from shipping any dvd recorders after 2/28/07! Since they are an authorized dealer, they would be getting units directly from Pioneer. It does not take a month for a shipment to reach them! I honestly hope I'm wrong but it doesn't look promising.

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post #23 of 323 Old 03-08-2007, 08:37 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PCdoc7 View Post

I just picked one up for $348 at http://www.hypeaudio.net/item.aspx?pid=103093 - they have them in stock.

I am not even going to unbox it - it is going straight to Pioneer technical services for the firmware upgrade so that I can see titles listed with their actual names instead of just the date and time.

PCdoc

To whom it will concern:

Check out "resellerratings.com" before you place orders with highly questionable, obscure dealers"! "hypeaudio" is just that......hype! Can't even reach them by phone......it's listed as a voice line but it's actually a fax machine! Their name should be a warning!
When you read their reviews, you'll want to call your credit card co. and cancel (since you probably can't reach them to cancel)!

What the majority of these "no name" dealers do is actually shop around for your item, since they have little or no inventory (they do it on the cheap and are very unprofesssional). This causes delays and aggrevation, especially when it's a hard to find item like the 640. They also substitute new with refurbs without informing you. Not to mention the aggrevation you'll have if you try to cancel the order. It can be a nightmare!

BUYER BEWARE! BE CAUTIOUS, NOT IMPULSIVE!
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post #24 of 323 Old 03-08-2007, 08:54 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garyjo View Post

Matt at Elec Warehouse advises they receive shipments once a month, usually near the end of month. I reminded him that Pio cannot bring anymore pio 640 into the US after 3/07, and again asked him if Elec Warehouse believed their shipment of 15 units targeted for a 3/26 delivery would really be coming. Matt believed Pio would fill the order from their US warehouse.

As I understand, Pio cannot bring anymore Pio 640s into the US, but can still sell Pios already in their US warehouse until they are gone. Is this corect?

Incorrect info. (unfortunately).....
They cannot ship any units out of their US warehouse..... Assuming this regulation is being enforced and adhered to (which it most likely would be by major manufacturers such as Pioneer). The dealers can sell off their remaining inventory.....not the manufacturers! If Matt believes that his shipment is coming from Pioneer's US warehouse he is sadly mistaken. The manufacturers would have made it a point to ship out all their remaining inventory by 2/28.
It's a mystery to me as to why they think they're getting them.
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post #25 of 323 Old 03-08-2007, 09:10 AM
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Originally Posted by slprp1 View Post

Incorrect info. (unfortunately).....
They cannot ship any units out of their US warehouse..... Assuming this regulation is being enforced and adhered to (which it most likely would be by major manufacturers such as Pioneer). The dealers can sell off their remaining inventory.....not the manufacturers! If Matt believes that his shipment is coming from Pioneer's US warehouse he is sadly mistaken. The manufacturers would have made it a point to ship out all their remaining inventory by 2/28.
It's a mystery to me as to why they think they're getting them.

Assuming everyone is adhering to the FCC Rule, as you say, the only legal way for Matt to receive units from Pioneer is if their warehouse is in the same state. The Rule specifies no "interstate" shipment by a mfgr, assembler or importer ("responsible party").

Another "out" might be a mfgr shipping within a state to a seller's warehouse, sort of a trans-shipment trick?

Or maybe Matt's shipment will really be coming from his company's warehouse?
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post #26 of 323 Old 03-08-2007, 10:08 AM
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Just got the phone with Elec Warehouse (Tim). I told him that all other Pio authorized internet dealers have notified customers they will *not* be getting any more Pio 640s.

Tim reiterated they will be getting 15 units from a mfr warehouse in CA. Elec Warehouse is in IL, so this would be a shipment across state lines..... which some of you say is against FCC rules after 2/28/07.

I asked Tim:
"Are you sure Elec Warehouse is getting 15 Pio 640s on 3/26? I, for one, will be upset with Elec Warehouse if you cancel my Pio order on 3/26, and I find I can no longer buy a Toshiba sx35 (the only other large HD DVD recorder still available from a 'big four' dealer)."

Tim said he would call his rep and discuss situation.


Quote:
Originally Posted by wabjxo View Post

Assuming everyone is adhering to the FCC Rule, as you say, the only legal way for Matt to receive units from Pioneer is if their warehouse is in the same state. The Rule specifies no "interstate" shipment. Another "out" might be a mfgr shipping within a state to a seller's warehouse, sort of a trans-shipment trick? Or maybe Matt's shipment will really be coming from his company's warehouse?

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post #27 of 323 Old 03-08-2007, 10:13 AM
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I think the bottom line here is that for all intents and purposes the Pioneer 640 is off the table. It will soon join the Panasonic EH55 on ebay selling for >$1000.

Better get those EH75V's before they are all gone from CC

- kelson h

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post #28 of 323 Old 03-08-2007, 10:58 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garyjo View Post

Just got the phone with Elec Warehouse (Tim). I told him that all other Pio authorized internet dealers have notified customers they will *not* be getting any more Pio 640s.

Tim reiterated they will be getting 15 units from a mfr warehouse in CA. Elec Warehouse is in IL, so this would be a shipment across state lines..... which some of you say is against FCC rules after 2/28/07.

I asked Tim:
"Are you sure Elec Warehouse is getting 15 Pio 640s on 3/26? I, for one, will be upset with Elec Warehouse if you cancel my Pio order on 3/26, and I find I can no longer buy a Toshiba sx35 (the only other large HD DVD recorder still available from a 'big four' dealer)."

Tim said he would call his rep and discuss situation.


640 is no longer being sold on Pioneer's website (was avail. before the "powers that be" dictated this stupid deadline and decided for us what we can and can't buy in this country.....dictatorship?.....don't get me started!).
Called Pioneer.....answer......no available stock.....discontinued. My guess is that, if they had an overabundance of these units, they cut a deal with their dealers to blow them out of the warehouse ASAP (can't blame them). Just speculation, mind you.

Shouldn't the consumer decide....given the facts....whether or not he/she wants to purchase a unit that will not be totally compatible two years down the road (in reality, this NTSC/ATSC issue is really much ado about nothing)!
I don't get it! If we are willing to spend our money, it's our choice to make, not the FCC!
This nonsense is causing all sorts of aggrevation and frustration for no good reason! (ooops -- I got started)

BTW, if you read the details on Electronicswarehouse website it says "first come, first served " and "no guarantee of receiving merchandise"
May as well just cancel orders now......good luck!.....happy hunting!
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post #29 of 323 Old 03-08-2007, 11:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slprp1 View Post

640 is no longer being sold on Pioneer's website (was avail. before the "powers that be" dictated this stupid deadline and decided for us what we can and can't buy in this country.....dictatorship?.....don't get me started!).

What is stopping Pioneer from making a similar product with an ATSC tuner. I'm not defending our government by any means...maybe demand doesn't support building more DVD recorders with hard drives and this was just a time to stop. Haven't the number of these (any brand) been dwindling in the past few years?

I blame the uneducated public and TiVo

Quote:


Shouldn't the consumer decide....given the facts....whether or not he/she wants to purchase a unit that will not be totally compatible two years down the road (in reality, this NTSC/ATSC issue is really much ado about nothing)!

Ah, there you go assuming that this board is a represenatation of the general public. I for one, know that my grandparents would be very upset if they bought an NTSC DVD recorder in a year to find out it was a paper weight (or they needed to buy another device to make it work) in 1 year. They are on a fixed income and use OTA only. Ask them (or even my parents before I educated them) what an ATSC tuner is...most of them don't know.

Heck, 6 months ago I was looking in BB for a ATSC tuner card for my PC and the computer "geek" (read: idiot) didn't even know what ATSC was.

FYI, I would love to get my hands on one with an ATSC tuner as I, too, use only OTA for my TV watching.

At no point in your rambling, incoherent post were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this forum is now dumber for having read it.

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post #30 of 323 Old 03-08-2007, 11:52 AM
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What about the Canadian retailers? There is no mandate about selling DVD recorders with NTSC tuners in Canada...or is there...?

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