Originally Posted by wajo
............Once you get the HD TIVO video copied to the 640 and send the signal out again, it'll be very insteresting to see if you notice any diff, one way or another, between digital composite and any other output from the 640.
It'd be esp. nice to compare the S-Vid output with composite and see if the 640 retains the separate components from the S-Vid copy to the 640... getting complicated to put into words, but you get the idea?
I tested these connections on my Pioneer 640 dvd recorder, using (what I *think* is) the same picture settings on my digital composite and on my s-video cable, both from bluejeanscable, so good quality cable examples of both types. What I've found is that their s-video cable provides better color than the digital composite cable. For a while, I also thought the sharpness/clarity was better, but upon further examination, they are the same. It's just that the fuller/richer color of the s-video cable transferred content is also creating a perception of greater detail, most likely a result of the greater contrast provided by the better color (and better contrast is said to improve perceived sharpness or clarity).
The wild card in all of this is how I am connected to my 37" lcd tv when playing back s-video recorded content from the Pioneer 640 (and still talking about HD Tivo as the original content source) vs. digital cable under the same circumstances. Specifically, for playback purposes, I have my Pio 640 dvd recorder attached to my lcd via a digital composite cable. I'm not sure if this impacts my observation in any way.
In other words, could attaching an s-video cable to my lcd tv change my perceptions of the recordings I talked about in my previous paragraph? I don't know. If anything, I would suspect the s-video recordings would look even better than they do now, increasing it's superiority over the digital composite cable, if I had an s-video cable connected to the lcd tv.
Originally Posted by Rammitinski
You may be expecting too much from your particular display. Generally, LCD's don't display SD as well as the better plasmas do (before anyone comments - I said "in general, not as well"). They often appear "softer" from closer up.
Have you tried turning up the sharpness? After a little calibration, which usually involves that, and maybe turning on the NR a bit to compensate for any artifacts that may cause, a good HD recording practically looks HD when recording from my Sony DVR to my Panny EH75V - at least from 10 ft. away
. I would figure that the TiVo HD and the Pioneer recorder combo should be equal, as long as you're using the highest quality recording speed.
Have you tried dubbing from the TiVo HD to a computer? Might get better results - worth a try, anyway.
Yes, I'm very much aware that the general perception out there is that the average plasma does better processing of non-HD content than the average lcd. Not sure if this perception would hold up under rigorous scrutiny or not, but from reading thousands of posts in the plasma/lcd forums over the years, I do believe there is some truth to that perceptional advantage of plasma over lcd.
Regarding your question about adjusting the sharpness, no I did not as the Pioneer recorder doesn't have a "sharpness" setting, per se. But, I have observed that it's "YNR" menu setting, who's described purpose is to "adjust the brightness noise reduction", does improve sharpness by having it set at minimum. No other setting had an impact upon sharpness. In any case, nothing I have attempted yet has yielded approximate "dvd quality" recordings as commonly claimed as being viable with regard to the better dvd recorders here on this dvd forum (which is what prompted both yours and wajo's posts I've quoted above.. in case you've forgotten.. it's been awhile.
).With all that said, even though I've expressed dissatisfaction that my Pio 640 recorder was not providing even "dvd quality" output of HD downres'd content (I'd actually be thrilled with dvd quality, if I could get it), from what I've observed of it so far, my dad's new Philips 3575 recorder pales even in comparison to my Pioneer 640 in this respect. I'll qualify this statement a bit more towards the end of my post.
To your last question, "tried dubbing from the TiVo HD to a computer?", no, I have not. Like you, I would be very curious to know if that helps and how much.
Originally Posted by Rammitinski
I didn't. The better the connection, and the higher the resolution, the worse it looked. The best possible picture I was able to get on my 50" plasma was through s-video at 480i. And it still wasn't acceptable enough, as I finally just gave up and returned the Philips.
Tallbonobo's experience matches mine to a tee, no matter what I tried. I couldn't have described it better myself. Even my SD satellite tuner's PQ was degraded running through a line input.
I have to echo these observations, at least so far.
My dad has the Philips 3575 recorder now, recommended to him by me based upon all the positive feedback for it here. We've hooked it up to his new Samsung 50" plasma. As of right now, we only have the hdmi cable connected for playback from the Philips to the plasma. But so far, in the case of commercial dvd playback, the elcheapo no name $50 value dvd player he has provides a better picture than the hdmi cable connected Philips 3575. In terms of color mostly. Much richer, more vivid in that one respect.
I've only had about 90 minutes with his Philips 3575 when I'm over visiting, and I haven't been able to find where picture adjustments can be made. Not exhaustive searches for it, mind you, but it hasn't exactly jumped out at me yet. I don't even see anything about making these adjustments in wajo's (LOVE the name shortening, btw!) FAQ section. I assume there is one, and I keep missing it? If there is one, hopefully I'll be able to tweak it to surpass the playback quality of his bargain basement dvd player (which is connected to the plasma by a super cheapo s-video cable, btw).
I still need to bring him some extra s-video and/or digital composite cables to try out for his playback of content recorded to his Philips 3575. As of right now though, the playback of his recorded content from the Philips, connected to his plasma by hdmi cable, pales in comparison to my Pioneer 640 recorded content displayed on my smaller lcd tv. How much the variance of panel sizes, brands and technology (lcd/plasma) is contributing to the difference is difficult to quantify at this stage. I'll share more observations after some more time helping him tweak his setup.