New Walmart HDD/DVDR-Magnavox H2080MW8 - Page 10 - AVS Forum
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post #271 of 943 Old 11-18-2007, 11:04 PM
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Originally Posted by SoonerTheBetter View Post

Sorry Rick,
I have been reading through some more of these threads and I see that you already have the Phillips.

Knowing this now, I have a question.
Do the remotes for these units(Magnovox and Phillips) send similar signal? Example: can I set one recorder on top of the other and operate them independently without effecting the other?

Yes you should be able to operate them independently. At least, I did try to operate the Philips with the Mag remote, and vice versa, without success.

Rick
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post #272 of 943 Old 11-18-2007, 11:12 PM
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Originally Posted by halfout View Post

My first post. Go easy on me.

DVDR3575H records and plays back a DVD correctly on my 16:9 TV. The aspect ratio is correct. When playing back the same DVD on the laptop or Sony BlueRay, the picture is "squashed" into a 4:3 picture.

Maybe this has been covered somewhere else in the forum.

One option is to set the Mag to record in Letterbox 4:3 mode. This maintains the correct aspect ratio of the original broadcast, but "inside" a 4:3 frame. Then use the TV stretch mode to stretch the image to fill your screen. Your TV probably has a mode that will do this without distorting, since this is also the type of image you would get from a commercial non-anamorphic widescreen DVD recording.

I would at least try this option and see how it looks to you.

Rick
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post #273 of 943 Old 11-19-2007, 07:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rickie View Post

One option is to set the Mag to record in Letterbox 4:3 mode. This maintains the correct aspect ratio of the original broadcast, but "inside" a 4:3 frame. Then use the TV stretch mode to stretch the image to fill your screen. Your TV probably has a mode that will do this without distorting, since this is also the type of image you would get from a commercial non-anamorphic widescreen DVD recording.

Like most DVD recorders these Mag/Phillips models don't have an option to set the recording aspect ratio, which is I think what you mean by "Letterbox 4:3 mode". They just record the input video frame, whatever it contains, which is entirely a function of the source. The aspect ratio information in the title info of the recording always defaults to 4:3 mode, so that's what any other DVD player will use when it plays back the recording. If the recording actually contains a full 16:9 wide-screen picture, you can use the TV aspect ratio controls to stretch it out horizontally, and it will look correct. If you don't want to have to adjust the aspect ratio manually on playback, your only option is to edit the DVD recording on your PC to set the correct aspect ratio in the title header using a utility program like IFOEdit.
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post #274 of 943 Old 11-19-2007, 12:34 PM
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Originally Posted by amesdp View Post

Like most DVD recorders these Mag/Phillips models don't have an option to set the recording aspect ratio, which is I think what you mean by "Letterbox 4:3 mode". They just record the input video frame, whatever it contains, which is entirely a function of the source. The aspect ratio information in the title info of the recording always defaults to 4:3 mode, so that's what any other DVD player will use when it plays back the recording. If the recording actually contains a full 16:9 wide-screen picture, you can use the TV aspect ratio controls to stretch it out horizontally, and it will look correct. If you don't want to have to adjust the aspect ratio manually on playback, your only option is to edit the DVD recording on your PC to set the correct aspect ratio in the title header using a utility program like IFOEdit.

yes, I understand that. THe Mag, and the philips both record a 4:3 image, but the record mode does impact the recorded image. On my system, i record on the Mag (or the philips), and watch from an OPPO connected via DVI. On my set, if I record on the Philips using the 16 x 9 mode, the recorded image is still squished into a 4:3 frame, side to side, as my set does not let you change aspect ratio for DVI connection. However, setting recording to 4:3 letter-box, rather than 4:3 pan and scan (which is other option) allow me to use the Oppo stretch mode, to fill the screen with no change in aspect ratio. Also, Iif I play using my Pio DVD connected with component inputs, I can use TV stretch mode that doesnt distort aspect (stretches equally in all directions).

Rick
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post #275 of 943 Old 11-19-2007, 01:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rickie View Post

However, setting recording to 4:3 letter-box, rather than 4:3 pan and scan (which is other option) allow me to use the Oppo stretch mode, to fill the screen with no change in aspect ratio.

If you are referring to the 4:3 letterbox vs. pan&scan settings on the recorder, those do not affect recording, only playback.
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post #276 of 943 Old 11-19-2007, 07:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rickie View Post

yes, I understand that. THe Mag, and the philips both record a 4:3 image, but the record mode does impact the recorded image. On my system, i record on the Mag (or the philips), and watch from an OPPO connected via DVI. On my set, if I record on the Philips using the 16 x 9 mode, the recorded image is still squished into a 4:3 frame, side to side, as my set does not let you change aspect ratio for DVI connection. However, setting recording to 4:3 letter-box, rather than 4:3 pan and scan (which is other option) allow me to use the Oppo stretch mode, to fill the screen with no change in aspect ratio. Also, Iif I play using my Pio DVD connected with component inputs, I can use TV stretch mode that doesnt distort aspect (stretches equally in all directions).

Rick

The negative of using a 4:3 mode to create video for a 16x9 display is that you are losing picture quality. The letterboxing is using 1/4 of the horizontal scan lines for the blank fields at the top and bottom. The recorder can save 480 lines, but with letterboxing, only 360 contain video information. Many 16x9 TVs have a fill screen mode (they use different names to describe it) which will stretch the image horizintally to fill the screen. It would be better if your display coud be set to do that. Any chance there is an upgrade available for your display. My several year old Philips 42PF7320A and my inexpensive Vizio VX32L can both do it.
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post #277 of 943 Old 11-20-2007, 12:57 AM
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You generally lose a lot of picture sharpness with that fill-screen mode. Maybe on your 32" it isn't noticable - but on my 50" it sure is.

If the picture isn't super sharp to begin with it's pretty near unwatchable. Hurts my eyes.
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post #278 of 943 Old 11-20-2007, 07:44 AM
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Wallyworld is advertising a Magnavox recorder for under 150 on black friday. The ad has no detail except it is a Magnavox recorder with tuner. (not SD tuner, not ATSC tuner, not analog tuner, just "with tuner").
I can't think of any other recorder but this one that would match the little details and price range. Anybody else think this unit is going on sale on Friday?
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post #279 of 943 Old 11-20-2007, 09:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GSfromCT View Post

Wallyworld is advertising a Magnavox recorder for under 150 on black friday. The ad has no detail except it is a Magnavox recorder with tuner. (not SD tuner, not ATSC tuner, not analog tuner, just "with tuner").
I can't think of any other recorder but this one that would match the little details and price range. Anybody else think this unit is going on sale on Friday?

Dang I was hoping this recorder would have a sale.
Scroll down to Magnovox for 144 bucks. No hard drive.

http://bfads.net/Online-Deals/WalMart
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post #280 of 943 Old 11-20-2007, 10:47 AM
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Strange thing is that the DVD recorder in the black friday link can be purchased today online for $139.88. Odd that the black friday sale pegs the price at $5 more than its everyday price.

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/produ...uct_id=5622736
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post #281 of 943 Old 11-20-2007, 11:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rammitinski View Post

You generally lose a lot of picture sharpness with that fill-screen mode. Maybe on your 32" it isn't noticable - but on my 50" it sure is.

If the picture isn't super sharp to begin with it's pretty near unwatchable. Hurts my eyes.

Perhaps I should have called it wide screen mode, since that is what many TVs call it, but I believe it is sometimes referred to as a fill mode since it streches the image horizontally to fill the width of the screen.

What mode do you use on the DVDR3575H when recording an HD telecast?
If you find the horizontal stretch unwatchable, do you watch it with pillar bars?
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post #282 of 943 Old 11-20-2007, 12:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoonerTheBetter View Post

Dang I was hoping this recorder would have a sale.
Scroll down to Magnovox for 144 bucks. No hard drive.

http://bfads.net/Online-Deals/WalMart

I don't know what it is but it is not the hard drive Magnavox as the photo does not have the big DVD and HDD buttons on the top middle of the photo. Perhaps they could not get enough of then to organize a Black Friday sale?

Walmart ad says: "Below are products that are currently priced at or below their Black Friday prices and available for purchase online." Perhaps it will be available on Black Friday; but not now. ...or not at a lower current price than on Black Friday? ...or is not currently available for purchase online?

Regards, Dick
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post #283 of 943 Old 11-20-2007, 01:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kenavs View Post

If you find the horizontal stretch unwatchable, do you watch it with pillar bars?

With any of my sources that don't normally fill a 16:9 screen, I always use the "just"-type stretch mode, which stretches the sides more than the middle. I know a lot of people can't stand that one and would rather even use the linear, even stretch before that one, but my Pio plasma does a very acceptable job with it, and it doesn't bother me nearly as much as the "all-fat" look. In fact, it looks quite good and I'm totally used to it.

With my E* SD source, I generally keep it on that mode, although I do switch to the 4:3 or the full screen one from time to time. I'll use the full-screen usually when it's a pillarboxed picture, like with Natl. Geo. SD. Their stuff is usually filmed in HD, so it's almost always pretty sharp to begin with and doesn't lose much.

Actually, I've been using the regular 4:3 mode for my native (full - not pillarboxed) 4:3 E* SD and OTA lately, since I've had the plasma for quite awhile now, and it never really ever exhibited any IR from day one, anyway (Pio plasmas rarely do). It sure does make that horrible E* SD look a little more bearable.

As far as self-recorded, pillarboxed DVD's, like I said, how I watch it often depends on the original sharpness. Or even what kind of mood I'm in.

Actually, I use DVD-RAM with my Panny recorder for the most important stuff I want to archive at full, 16:9. I can usually find blanks for less than a buck apiece.
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post #284 of 943 Old 11-20-2007, 02:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rammitinski View Post

With any of my sources that don't normally fill a 16:9 screen, I always use the "just"-type stretch mode, which stretches the sides more than the middle. I know a lot of people can't stand that one and would rather even use the linear, even stretch before that one, but my Pio plasma does a very acceptable job with it, and it doesn't bother me nearly as much as the "all-fat" look. In fact, it looks quite good and I'm totally used to it.

With my E* SD source, I generally keep it on that mode, although I do switch to the 4:3 or the full screen one from time to time. I'll use the full-screen usually when it's a pillarboxed picture, like with Natl. Geo. SD. Their stuff is usually filmed in HD, so it's almost always pretty sharp to begin with and doesn't lose much.

Actually, I've been using the regular 4:3 mode for my native (full - not pillarboxed) 4:3 E* SD and OTA lately, since I've had the plasma for quite awhile now, and it never really ever exhibited any IR from day one, anyway (Pio plasmas rarely do). It sure does make that horrible E* SD look a little more bearable.

As far as self-recorded, pillarboxed DVD's, like I said, how I watch it often depends on the original sharpness. Or even what kind of mood I'm in.

Actually, I use DVD-RAM with my Panny recorder for the most important stuff I want to archive at full, 16:9. I can usually find blanks for less than a buck apiece.

I apologize, but I am not sure I understand how you use the recorder. Are you recording images that were broadcast as 16x9 (I am talking about HD wide-screen images that were broadcast without pillar bars). How would you set the recorder for that (16:9 or 4:3)? How you you set the TV during playback?

Evey thing I record on my DVDR3575H is OTA and almost all is HD wide-screen broadcasts. The recorder is set for 16x9. My 42 inch plasma is set for wide-screen during playback, so the picture get stretched back to the original broadcast width. Obviously, I want a linear stretch to undo the linear compression of the recorder. Although the image is not as good as the original OTA broadcast using the TV's ATSC tuner, I am quite pleased with the results. I just purchased NCIS season 4, and, in my humble opinion, the commercial DVD picture quality is better, but not dramatically better, than the episodes I had recorded off the air.
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post #285 of 943 Old 11-21-2007, 03:44 AM
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Are we really talking about display at the 16:9 setting, not recording at 16:9. I think the recorder records what the signal is which if 16:9 is squished 4:3. Then, your setting for display treats the recording as you set it. I have my 3575 set for 16:9 for everything and just change the TV from "wide" to "normal" to take care of aspect. HD 16:9 recordings display squished in normal but perfect in wide. That is over component. If I send a 16:9 recording in HDMI, it automatically is wide with no need for aspect adjustment.
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post #286 of 943 Old 11-21-2007, 07:44 AM
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Ok, let's have one last try to make this really simple.

These recorders just record the video frame they get from the input source. They don't know anything about the intended aspect ratio. They don't know if it's wide-screen 16:9 or 4:3, they don't know if it's letterboxed or pan&scan - that's all up to the source. That input frame will be recorded at 720 x 480 resolution, assuming SP quality or better is selected.

The only way that any DVD player knows what the aspect ratio of a recording "should" be on playback is the aspect ratio field in the title header, i.e., the IFO file on the DVD. DVD recorders do not set that field, so it just defaults to 4:3 (yes, there are some models that provide an option to set it manually, but the Phillips/Magnavox units don't).

DVD players use that aspect ratio field in combination with the "TV type" playback setting (16:9 wide screen, 4:3 letterbox, or 4:3 pan&scan) to decide how to display the recording on your TV. If the aspect ratio field says that the title is wider than your TV, it will add letterboxing above and below - unless you have selected 4:3 pan&scan, in which case it will cut off the edges instead. This is a playback mode setting - these settings exist on all players and recorders, and do not affect recording in any way.

The actual picture you get on your TV on playback will depend on both the DVD player's output, and the use of Zoom and Aspect Ratio controls on the TV and/or the DVD player to modify the picture. You can modify the appearance manually to be correct, even if the aspect ratio field is incorrectly set for the recording.

The best way to record and play back 16:9 wide-screen HDTV broadcasts is:
1. On recording make sure your source is giving you full frame (i.e., "anamorphic") input with no letterboxing, no edges cut off.
2. On playback, set the TV type to 16:9 wide screen
3. On your TV, set the aspect ratio to "Full" or "Stretch", whichever correctly expands the picture to exactly fill the 16:9 screen
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post #287 of 943 Old 11-21-2007, 01:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amesdp View Post

Ok, let's have one last try to make this really simple.

These recorders just record the video frame they get from the input source. They don't know anything about the intended aspect ratio. They don't know if it's wide-screen 16:9 or 4:3, they don't know if it's letterboxed or pan&scan - that's all up to the source. That input frame will be recorded at 720 x 480 resolution, assuming SP quality or better is selected.

The only way that any DVD player knows what the aspect ratio of a recording "should" be on playback is the aspect ratio field in the title header, i.e., the IFO file on the DVD. DVD recorders do not set that field, so it just defaults to 4:3 (yes, there are some models that provide an option to set it manually, but the Phillips/Magnavox units don't).

DVD players use that aspect ratio field in combination with the "TV type" playback setting (16:9 wide screen, 4:3 letterbox, or 4:3 pan&scan) to decide how to display the recording on your TV. If the aspect ratio field says that the title is wider than your TV, it will add letterboxing above and below - unless you have selected 4:3 pan&scan, in which case it will cut off the edges instead. This is a playback mode setting - these settings exist on all players and recorders, and do not affect recording in any way.

The actual picture you get on your TV on playback will depend on both the DVD player's output, and the use of Zoom and Aspect Ratio controls on the TV and/or the DVD player to modify the picture. You can modify the appearance manually to be correct, even if the aspect ratio field is incorrectly set for the recording.

The best way to record and play back 16:9 wide-screen HDTV broadcasts is:
1. On recording make sure your source is giving you full frame (i.e., "anamorphic") input with no letterboxing, no edges cut off.
2. On playback, set the TV type to 16:9 wide screen
3. On your TV, set the aspect ratio to "Full" or "Stretch", whichever correctly expands the picture to exactly fill the 16:9 screen

When I first read your post, I thought you were saying that the Video/Aspect Ratio setting did not effect the recording. Now I am not sure that you were saying that.
I just did a little experiment to convince myself what was happening. I did a quick recording on my DVDR3575H of an HD station. At this time of the day, the program was actually 4:3 with pillar bars added to create a 16:9 image, but I don't think that matters.
I did the first recording with the Video/Aspect ratio set to 16:9 as normal.
I did another recording with the Video/Aspect ratio set to 4:3.
Then I set the Video/Aspect ratio back to 16:9
I then went to the hard drive title prevue screen.
The Title recorded with the 16:9 setting was not letterboxed.
The Title recorded with the 4:3 setting was letterboxed.
Based on my experiment, I believe that your item 1 should also state that the recorder should be set to a 16:9 setting during the record process. Not just during the playback as described in item 2. You may well have felt that was implied, but that is what had me uncertain about the effect of the aspect ratio during record.
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post #288 of 943 Old 11-21-2007, 02:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kenavs View Post

I did the first recording with the Video/Aspect ratio set to 16:9 as normal.
I did another recording with the Video/Aspect ratio set to 4:3.
Then I set the Video/Aspect ratio back to 16:9
I then went to the hard drive title prevue screen.
The Title recorded with the 16:9 setting was not letterboxed.
The Title recorded with the 4:3 setting was letterboxed.

If you are saying that the preview frame on the HDD index showed letterboxing in one case and not the other, it's possible that the Video/Aspect Ratio setting is affecting the TV tuner output of the 3575, rather than the recorder part. Phillips is quite clear in the manual that 16:9/4:3 setting does not affect recording, and I've explained the technical reason for that above. But they didn't say anything about it affecting or not affecting the TV tuner output, which is quite possible. In other words, if you have the TV type set to 16:9, and the tuner is receiving a wide-screen program, it does not letterbox the video output - and that output goes to the recording section as well as to the TV.
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post #289 of 943 Old 11-21-2007, 02:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amesdp View Post

If you are saying that the preview frame on the HDD index showed letterboxing in one case and not the other, it's possible that the Video/Aspect Ratio setting is affecting the TV tuner output of the 3575, rather than the recorder part. Phillips is quite clear in the manual that 16:9/4:3 setting does not affect recording, and I've explained the technical reason for that above. But they didn't say anything about it affecting or not affecting the TV tuner output, which is quite possible. In other words, if you have the TV type set to 16:9, and the tuner is receiving a wide-screen program, it does not letterbox the video output - and that output goes to the recording section as well as to the TV.

The point I was trying to make clear is that the setting does seem to effect what gets recorded. It appears to me that the 4:3 setting will result in the letterboxed recording. Whether it was the recorder or the tuner that added the letterboxing, does not change the fact that it is part of the recorded data. When recording 16:9 using the tuner, if you don't want to waste 25 percent of the lines, you want to have the video/aspect ratio set for 16:9.

Do you agree that when recoing a 16:9 broadcast, using the built in tuner, for display on a 16:9 display device, you want to have the recorder Video/Aspect ratio set to 16:9 during the recording process and not just during playback?
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post #290 of 943 Old 11-21-2007, 02:44 PM
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I certainly agree. I just tried a digital channel with both Video > Aspect settings and got a wide letterboxed copy with 4:3 Letter Box and a perfect 16:9 with 16:9 setting... didn't matter what I set that Aspect for on playback, they played exactly the way they looked in the index pic.

(I played back on both HDMI, component and composite... all the same any Aspect setting.)
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post #291 of 943 Old 11-21-2007, 03:37 PM
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No OTH digital HD source for me to test here, but it certainly sounds like the 16:9/4:3 setting affects the video output of the built-in tuner. In that case you would want to set it correctly if you are watching or recording OTH broadcasts from the built-in tuner, i.e., set it to 16:9 if you are watching a wide-screen HD broadcast on a wide-screen TV.
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post #292 of 943 Old 11-21-2007, 03:40 PM
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I think this all confirms what one poster on another forum site said about his new 3575... he said (more or less, in bold type): "it certainly did record in 16:9 aspect...honest!"

Oops, I think I lost my way here... I thought I was in the Philips 3575 thread. I can't/shouldn't speak for the Maggie.
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post #293 of 943 Old 11-21-2007, 10:13 PM
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I've asked this on the Philips thread also:
Is this a good unit if you just have analog cable? Hard drive units of any type are rare these days.

In space, no one can eat ice cream - Killer Klowns From Outer Space
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post #294 of 943 Old 11-25-2007, 11:25 AM
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I visited 3 local (SFla) Walmarts this weekend. Lots of the lower cost unit, but not even a display label for the HDD unit. Anyone see one? Hoping to snag one, but likely found this thread too late (now major shopping going on until next year).

Thanks for any hope,
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post #295 of 943 Old 11-25-2007, 04:30 PM
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I'm currently using this unit to receive over-the-air digital broadcast on a non-widescreen television. After some experimentation, it seems to me that the display aspect setting does indeed affect recordings.

I'd like to start archiving some NFL games. Can someone tell me which format would be the preffered one to record in, for future viewing on a widecreen tv? If I were to record everything with the setting at 4:3 letterbox, what becomes of the pan & scan programming, once I switch to a widescreen?

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post #296 of 943 Old 11-26-2007, 12:37 AM
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Originally Posted by amesdp View Post

If you are referring to the 4:3 letterbox vs. pan&scan settings on the recorder, those do not affect recording, only playback.

No, actually they do affect the recording. You can see this quiete easily if you set the three different modes and play the recordings back on a different DVD player. I use an OPPO connected via DVI. The difference is clear and obvious.

And yes, I understand that the recroder is recording the signal in a 4:3 image, but the way in which it does that differs.

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post #297 of 943 Old 11-26-2007, 12:40 AM
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Originally Posted by kenavs View Post

The negative of using a 4:3 mode to create video for a 16x9 display is that you are losing picture quality. The letterboxing is using 1/4 of the horizontal scan lines for the blank fields at the top and bottom. The recorder can save 480 lines, but with letterboxing, only 360 contain video information. Many 16x9 TVs have a fill screen mode (they use different names to describe it) which will stretch the image horizintally to fill the screen. It would be better if your display coud be set to do that. Any chance there is an upgrade available for your display. My several year old Philips 42PF7320A and my inexpensive Vizio VX32L can both do it.


Yes I can do it with the TV as well. My Toshiba has 4 modes, one of them will take the image form the letterboxed 16X9, in 4:3 frame and fill the screen just about perfectly (some slight overscan - 4-6 %).

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post #298 of 943 Old 11-26-2007, 12:42 AM
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Originally Posted by amesdp View Post

If you are saying that the preview frame on the HDD index showed letterboxing in one case and not the other, it's possible that the Video/Aspect Ratio setting is affecting the TV tuner output of the 3575, rather than the recorder part. Phillips is quite clear in the manual that 16:9/4:3 setting does not affect recording, and I've explained the technical reason for that above. But they didn't say anything about it affecting or not affecting the TV tuner output, which is quite possible. In other words, if you have the TV type set to 16:9, and the tuner is receiving a wide-screen program, it does not letterbox the video output - and that output goes to the recording section as well as to the TV.


No, the philips manual doesnt say that, what the manual says is that the image is recorded inside of a 4:3 frame, regradless of the setting.

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post #299 of 943 Old 11-26-2007, 07:59 AM
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Originally Posted by rickie View Post

No, actually they do affect the recording. You can see this quiete easily if you set the three different modes and play the recordings back on a different DVD player. I use an OPPO connected via DVI. The difference is clear and obvious.

And yes, I understand that the recroder is recording the signal in a 4:3 image, but the way in which it does that differs.

I think you missed some of the earlier discussion. The 4:3/16:9 settings on the recorder do not affect the recording. What they do affect is the output of the built-in TV tuner. If you have the recorder set to 16:9, the TV tuner outputs a full-screen 16:9 image, no letterboxing or Pan&Scan, and that's what the recording section records if you are recording from the built-in tuner.
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post #300 of 943 Old 11-26-2007, 08:05 AM
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Originally Posted by rickie View Post

No, the philips manual doesnt say that, what the manual says is that the image is recorded inside of a 4:3 frame, regradless of the setting.

The DVD recording doesn't really have a frame aspect ratio - it just records the input frame it receives at 720 x 480 (assuming SP quality or better). The aspect ratio field in the title header may default to 4:3, but that's just a description that can be used or ignored on playback if the correct aspect ratio is something different. If you record a full 16:9 input frame at 720 x 480 on the Phillips or Magnavox recorders, the title header incorrectly describes it as 4:3, but if you ignore that on playback and play it as 16:9, you get back the original full frame.
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