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post #1 of 18 Old 10-31-2007, 09:52 AM - Thread Starter
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I've been reading some disturbing reports from members in different parts of the country suddenly getting ALL COPY-PROTECTED CHANNELS from their cablecos!

That seems to be a new trend and may escalate in the future as cablcos find new ways to "keep their feed inside your home."

Here are two (of many) articles on what seems to be happening:

New Digital Transmission Copy Protection (DCP-IP) for digital signals.

The Coax Straightjacket: Stopping Cable Copy-Protection Abuse.
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post #2 of 18 Old 10-31-2007, 10:09 AM
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Any word on satellite providers? That's an option if the cable companies unilaterally mess with recording rights.
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post #3 of 18 Old 10-31-2007, 10:16 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean Nelson View Post

Any word on satellite providers? That's an option if the cable companies unilaterally mess with recording rights.

The 2nd article, 3rd para., groups sat when she talks about cable companies when she says, but doesn't explain:

"But that situation has changed rapidly, and now cable firms (and their fiber, satellite, IPTV, and other variations -- I'm calling them all cable) have got their subscribers by the you know what,...."

I'm sure the satcos will use the Copy Control Information(CCI) byte she mentions if it's technically possible. I think we'll be hearing more of this since it seems to be a fairly recent development.
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post #4 of 18 Old 10-31-2007, 10:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wabjxo View Post

I've been reading some disturbing reports from members in different parts of the country suddenly getting ALL COPY-PROTECTED CHANNELS from their cablecos!

That seems to be a new trend and may escalate in the future as cablcos find new ways to "keep their feed inside your home."

Here are two (of many) articles on what seems to be happening:

New Digital Transmission Copy Protection (DCP-IP) for digital signals.

The Coax Straightjacket: Stopping Cable Copy-Protection Abuse.


We can already do all the things they claim as "benefits" of this new scheme, so thanks for nothing. Hopefully, there will be a backlash. Comcast in my area had gone crazy with the flags but they seem to have backed off some recently.

When will this craziness end? I'm sure they'd like everything to be a strict pay per view model like the divx group of old tried to do. They never learn.
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post #5 of 18 Old 10-31-2007, 12:30 PM
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It is pretty simple for me - if cable goes to NO RECORDING I will drop their product immediately and without hesitation. If I am unable to find a suitable satellite replacement I will go back to OTA viewing untill someone comes to their senses. With my schedule I RARELY view a program at the original air time.

I would venture to say that 90% of my viewing is done from a recording of the original programming.
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post #6 of 18 Old 10-31-2007, 12:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FullOnShred View Post

It is pretty simple for me - if cable goes to NO RECORDING I will drop their product immediately and without hesitation. If I am unable to find a suitable satellite replacement I will go back to OTA viewing untill someone comes to their senses. With my schedule I RARELY view a program at the original air time.

I would venture to say that 90% of my viewing is done from a recording of the original programming.

I quite agree. I never watch "live" TV anymore. Like you, my schedule is hectic and I watch at odd hours whenever I have time. Even when I'm around I prefer to record and watch at my convenience. I will be there with you, I'll drop them in a NY minute if they get too carried away.
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post #7 of 18 Old 10-31-2007, 01:35 PM
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There could always be an answer to this...SET YOUR OWN COPY FLAG!
Regardless of what the content providers do, you can take control and copy what you want.
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post #8 of 18 Old 10-31-2007, 02:14 PM
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I might have to go dedicated ota, if these practices really take hold.

Maybe this is the chance for U-Tube to make its move to supreme dominance (as arrogant cable and satellite providers bite the dust one after the other from massive customer attrition)? Could be a good time to buy some stock...(figuratively speaking- I have no idea if they are publicly traded)

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post #9 of 18 Old 10-31-2007, 02:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Logic Design View Post

There could always be an answer to this...SET YOUR OWN COPY FLAG!
Regardless of what the content providers do, you can take control and copy what you want.

But how long before boxes like this are declared illegal and taken off the market.

- kelson h

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post #10 of 18 Old 10-31-2007, 02:31 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelson View Post

But how long before boxes like this are declared illegal and taken off the market.

After beating SIMA to a pulp, Macrovision's radar is searching for more blips to drop some bombs on as we speak.
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post #11 of 18 Old 10-31-2007, 02:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bron View Post

I quite agree. I never watch "live" TV anymore. Like you, my schedule is hectic and I watch at odd hours whenever I have time. Even when I'm around I prefer to record and watch at my convenience. I will be there with you, I'll drop them in a NY minute if they get too carried away.

last week i dropped comcasts hd service in a cocaine second! 1st, back in june, they took hdnet/movies, then american life tv (an sd oldies channel-it was great) off the line-up, replaced them w natgeohd, a&ehd, tnthd, others of that ilk. many of them were stretched 4x3 crap; and they were nothing id watch anyway. then they jacked up my bill by $100, WTF!!

i called and told them to come get the 2 hd dvrs i had been leasing for the last 3 yrs. the guy showed up saturday. i am keeping 'basic' or whatever its called (chs 2-99), plus my bb 'net and bb phone. i still get some hd thru qam tuner on my kitchen lcd flat panel.

i have sima ct2s to defeat the copy guard stuff, but now its a moot point. with what we pay for cable, etc, we shouldnt have to put up w copy protection at all! did i use 'moot' in the right context? ive never before used the word. LOL!
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post #12 of 18 Old 10-31-2007, 02:41 PM
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Since cable service in a given area is a monopoly, cable service contracts are usually negotiated by local or regional government agencies. These are the people you complain to if the policies are too restrictive.

- kelson h

The bitterness of poor quality lasts long after the sweetness of the low price is forgotten . . . life is too short to drink bad wine

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post #13 of 18 Old 10-31-2007, 02:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelson View Post

Since cable service in a given area is a monopoly, cable service contracts are usually negotiated by local or regional government agencies. These are the people you complain to if the policies are too restrictive.

The Telecommunications Act of 1996 essentially took local control away. That Act is what my local city manager referred to when he said he couldn't stop a recent cable rate hike in our city...he can just "suggest."

Here's an article on its effects.

One para. in the article (way down) says this:

"Return authority to local communities. Preemptive provisions of the Act have thwarted attempts by local communities to protect cable subscribers from the worst of the industry's depredations. These preemptive provisions must be abolished so that policy control may be returned to community leaders who are closest to consumers and who are most committed to ensuring that their communities have access to multiple providers of competitively priced video services."
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post #14 of 18 Old 10-31-2007, 07:50 PM
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Yea, jeez, if this keeps up -- I might have to start reading books again!
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post #15 of 18 Old 10-31-2007, 08:15 PM
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Originally Posted by westgate View Post

i am keeping 'basic' or whatever its called (chs 2-99),

Upon rereading that, it sounds like you really mean "expanded basic".. But if you *really* mean only the OTA stations on cable (e.g. for better overall reception, so you don't need a rotor antenna in some areas).. then make sure you call back and change to "lifeline" cable. That is a mandated package, and sometimes they apparently throw in a few extra stations, but mostly it's OTA stations. It's way cheaper than 'basic', and is not usually advertized apparently.

(No, I don't have it.. It sort of intrigues me though.. even though I have a S3 Tivo and will be soon buying a Tivo HD to transfer my other lifetime subscription... but I'm still recording analog for the time being since I don't want to pay for cablecards yet and haven't played around enough to get an antenna for OTA -- but will sometime.)
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post #16 of 18 Old 11-03-2007, 12:36 AM
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They are even copy protecting analog channels. About a month ago I tried to record a movie from AMC. My DVD recorder said "copy protected-cannot record". How do they copy protect an analog channel? Is there a data bit in the vertical blanking interval, or does the signal contain Macrovision? If I had attempted to record the movie with my old VCR, would it have worked, or would the tape look like an attempt to copy a rental VHS movie?

How can we say "the digital transition is complete" when thousands of low power stations are still broadcasting in analog?
LOW POWER ANALOG NEEDS TO DIE NOW!!!
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post #17 of 18 Old 11-03-2007, 10:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Desert Hawk View Post

How do they copy protect an analog channel? Is there a data bit in the vertical blanking interval, or does the signal contain Macrovision?

Depending on the equipment, it might be using Macrovision or it might be using CGMS-A. The latter is a set of data bits carried in the vertical blanking interval of an analog signal. This Wikipedia article has more information.
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post #18 of 18 Old 11-03-2007, 04:28 PM
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I have a ?. Wouldnt what we the consumers need in this case is a class action lawsuit against the cable companies + all the other content holders. This could even be under a rico suit. Wouldnt be the 1st time companies have been sued under those laws. I mean how many dvd recorders have been sold to date 10 + million, + millions more each year. I would see that as being the only way to get our fair use rights back.

Congress could step in but I wouldnt hold my breathe for any of these dumbass, incompotent politicians to step in and do anything good for the citizens of the country. (That includes both parties)
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