Magnavox 557, 537, 535, 533, 515, 513, 2160A, 2160, 2080 & Philips 3576, 3575 - Page 245 - AVS Forum
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post #7321 of 25746 Old 11-06-2009, 09:24 PM
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I'm having a problem recording two of our four local PBS channels on a 3575. After scanning (over the air broadcasts), four PBS channels 2.1, 2.2, 2.3, and 2.4 are found, and all can be viewed via the 3575 tuner. However, if I set the timer to record programming on channel 2.1 or 2.2, all that's recorded is a silent black screen. I get good recordings on 2.3 and 2.4. Any idea what's going on?

Here's what I understand is the display channel/digital channel correspondence for the stations in question. (Mpls-St. Paul, MN)

Display Digital
Channel Station Channel
2-1 KTCA-DT 34
2-2 KTCA-DT 34
2-3 KTCI-DT 16
2-4 KTCI-DT 16
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post #7322 of 25746 Old 11-06-2009, 09:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tfj2u View Post

Wajo,

I should probably clarify that when I saw the timer issue after using the 11:57 procedure, the clock had set itself to the correct date and time. The problem is that the unit did not automatically adjust its timer schedule to match the new date and time. For example, let's say that I set the clock for 11:57 PM on Thursday afternoon before primetime, and then shut the unit off. Before I shut the unit off, it sees that it's too late for my weekly program for Fringe that day. It decides that the next day to record Fringe is next week, not that day. (It thinks that day is almost over.) It then moves that program to the end of the list. A few minutes later, it correctly sets the date and time, but it doesn't adjust the timer schedule to record Fringe that week. It leaves it set for next week.

It just now occurred to me that the problem could be avoided by setting the date back one day when using the 11:57 procedure. That way, no future timer events should be affected.

Hey, never thought of that! Bummer.

I changed the procedure to add a "FINAL STEP" as shown here.

Thanks! Good stuff!
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post #7323 of 25746 Old 11-07-2009, 05:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sabps View Post

I'm having a problem recording two of our four local PBS channels on a 3575. After scanning (over the air broadcasts), four PBS channels 2.1, 2.2, 2.3, and 2.4 are found, and all can be viewed via the 3575 tuner. However, if I set the timer to record programming on channel 2.1 or 2.2, all that's recorded is a silent black screen. I get good recordings on 2.3 and 2.4. Any idea what's going on?

Here's what I understand is the display channel/digital channel correspondence for the stations in question. (Mpls-St. Paul, MN)

Display Digital
Channel Station Channel
2-1 KTCA-DT 34
2-2 KTCA-DT 34
2-3 KTCI-DT 16
2-4 KTCI-DT 16

Hey fellow Twin Citian, Here's a link to a post by Kenavs describing the easy workaround us 3575/6/2160 people must do to be able to record our rather odd channel assignments for PBS here in the TCs.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...7#post17297227
Welcome to the forum
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post #7324 of 25746 Old 11-07-2009, 06:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tfj2u View Post

Wajo,

Even though I also have 2160's (not 2160A's), I decided to try your test instead of waiting until next week. Sure enough, the 2160 did fall back correctly. I don't know why it didn't work earlier this week, but I'm sure it didn't. When I used the 11:57 procedure earlier this week, it stayed on DST. The clock would change, but it was one hour off. It wasn't correct until I after changed the DST setting to Apr-Oct. Now it's back to Mar-Nov and the clock is correct. I don't know what could have changed, except perhaps something in the time signal detected by the unit. I was planning to wait until after this weekend to try Mar-Nov again, but now I don't need to. Thanks for the idea.

TFJ

I'm in exactly the same boat as TFJ. Even though my 2160 (not A) did not fall back correctly on 11/1, I just changed DST back to Mar-Nov and tried wajo's "1:58AM" procedure and it did fall back. Weird.
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post #7325 of 25746 Old 11-07-2009, 09:37 AM
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Many thanks. I'd looked through this forum, but must have done a bad search to miss the info in the Magnavox H2160 forum. I will give the recommended setup a try.
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post #7326 of 25746 Old 11-07-2009, 10:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sabps View Post

Many thanks. I'd looked through this forum, but must have done a bad search to miss the info in the Magnavox H2160 forum. I will give the recommended setup a try.

Often the problem is that the default setting for viewing and searching goes back only thirty days.

Toward the foot of a sub-forum's table of contents page the default setting may be changed to provide access to earlier posts.

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post #7327 of 25746 Old 11-07-2009, 12:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wajo View Post

Turning your DST off seems to have "released" the clock to accept the good time signal it was receiving on Ch. 4, so the DST setting was apparently "stuck"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by _mde_ View Post

I had my settings exactly the same as yours and I had exactly the same experience. It makes sense to me that turning DST to off sets the clock to the correct time since DST is now over.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wajo View Post

************************
I've STILL got a new question I'm "exploring": if a person gets a good time signal and also has DST turned on, WHY? The good time signal will revert all by itself based on the station's clock, so what effect, good or bad, will the internal DST time changer also have, if any?

Part of my confusion lies in what is responsible for the fallback. I just assumed that in auto mode, the 2160 would source its clock from the its preferred channel, or the channel manually selected by the user... and that during DST transitions, the channels would adjust their clocks (and clock signals). In this case the DST settings should be disabled when the unit is set to auto clock.

If, however, the channels always remain on GST +/- some time (depending on time zone), then the DST settings make sense.

Wajo's stuck suggestion is a possible answer, it fits the results.

If, instead, the channel's transmitted time signals fall back an hour, and the unit falls back an hour, I should have seen a two hour fallback, no?

It's unclear to me, as Wajo suggests, if the DST settings should used other than when setting the clock manually... though the 1:58 procedure suggests the unit is acting independently.
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post #7328 of 25746 Old 11-07-2009, 12:44 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulF View Post

Part of my confusion lies in what is responsible for the fallback. I just assumed that in auto mode, the 2160 would source its clock from the its preferred channel, or the channel manually selected by the user... and that during DST transitions, the channels would adjust their clocks (and clock signals). In this case the DST settings should be disabled when the unit is set to auto clock.

I think this would be a good thing to explore in March... someone with a good time signal with Auto Clock on a Manual channel might set DST OFF and see if the clock adjusts to DST with just the station's time signal... can't see why it wouldn't. If it does, maybe the DST setting is just for a set-it-yourself or Auto Clock Off situation for someone who can't get a good time signal?

The two could be "coordinated" somehow so you don't end up 2-hours different, as you said?
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post #7329 of 25746 Old 11-07-2009, 02:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wajo View Post

I think this would be a good thing to explore in March... someone with a good time signal with Auto Clock on a Manual channel might set DST OFF and see if the clock adjusts to DST with just the station's time signal... can't see why it wouldn't. If it does, maybe the DST setting is just for a set-it-yourself or Auto Clock Off situation for someone who can't get a good time signal?

The two could be "coordinated" somehow so you don't end up 2-hours different, as you said?

Exactly my thought. My Auto clock was set to OFF and DST was ON, no problem. It seems that a simple work around, to avoid missing scheduled recordings, is to set the Auto Clock to OFF before the transition, and switch back afterward.
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post #7330 of 25746 Old 11-08-2009, 07:07 PM
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I am upgrading the harddisk on 2160A without success. I bought a brand new 640GB Caviar Green WD6400AACS and put it in, the 2160A seemed not recognise it with an error code E48 when trying to record. I took it out and initialzed it in Vista disk management, still no go. Any help?

I had tried V.Skip079. When prompted "Enter" to start format, I pressed "OK" but the 2160A just switched itself off. When I tried V.Skip013, it seemed checking it forever. Do I need to finish V.Skip013 in order to start V.Skip079 and then formatting the HDD?
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post #7331 of 25746 Old 11-08-2009, 07:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Ontario View Post

I am upgrading the harddisk on 2160A without success. I bought a brand new 640GB Caviar Green WD6400AACS and put it in, the 2160A seemed not recognise it with an error code E48 when trying to record. I took it out and initialzed it in Vista disk management, still no go. Any help?

I had tried V.Skip079. When prompted "Enter" to start format, I pressed "OK" but the 2160A just switched itself off. When I tried V.Skip013, it seemed checking it forever. Do I need to finish V.Skip013 in order to start V.Skip079 and then formatting the HDD?

When I upgraded my 2080 to a 160GB Seagate hard drive pressing OK in the SKIP 079 screen also powered the machine off. A few minutes later I powered the recorder back on. The hard drive had been formatted and was recognized once I made a test recording.

Your Western Digital AA series hard drive is designed for computer use but it should work even though it's not optimized for audio/video use.

Western Digital AV series hard drives are designed for "audio/video" applications.

This page provides general information concerning the two WD AV series hard drives:

http://www.wdc.com/en/products/index.asp?cat=7

This page provides more specific information concerning the WD AV hard drive models:

http://www.wdc.com/en/products/products.asp?DriveID=280

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post #7332 of 25746 Old 11-08-2009, 07:36 PM
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DigaDo,

Thanks for the info. about the WD drives. I guess I would not be upgrading it with another drive. Strange that it will not work with the computer HDDs.

OK, I found the electrical differences Hitachi Model: HDT721016SLA380 5V 420mA, 12V 700mA
WD Model:WD6400AACS 5V 700mA, 12V 550mA

It seemed that WD is consuming less power than Hitachi. I guess the determining factor is the 5V power consumption.
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post #7333 of 25746 Old 11-08-2009, 07:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Sam, not sure what you should do now after some possible "errors"?

1. Not getting a HDD designed for AV ops, as this note in the SKIP 079 help file recommended:

"Note on WD Drives: Thanks to timtofly for this tip. If contemplating the use of a Western Digital (WD) drive, make sure to select their "AV" drives, not the "AA" drives. The AA drives get hot cuz they're made for the well-cooled inside of a computer. Unless you get the AV drives as opposed to the AA drives, you may be taking your chances. WD5000AAKB = PC ; WD5000AVJB = Video equipment."

Note: This is just a note for others contemplating an upgrade to not just get "any" HDD, altho they might work, but look for ones that say they're designed for Video or Audio-Video (AV) use. They're designed to run constantly, stay cooler, 7200rpm (more important when your HDD gets fragmented), etc. etc.

2. Formatting the dirve in a computer. Anyone know if this can be overcome or "re-formatted" with a format or HDD Factory Check in the 2160A?

3. Not completing the SKIP 013 procedure... not sure what stopping this procedure does, maybe no effect I hope. I'm not sure SKIP 013 is needed for a NEW drive, and it prob. can't be done anyway IF the 2160A can't actually recognize that there's a HDD there. Error E48 is "Recording without HDD connected" so that might mean it isn't being seen by the op system? Are connections tight and secure?

The SKIP 013 procedure DOES take quite a while, esp. for a 640GB drive... my 160GB procedure took almost 1 hour, I think (read the procedure again?). As long as it keeps working without throwing a "NG" on the screen during the LONGEST part of the process, Media Read at the beginning.

All I can think of quickly at this time. Need some help from experienced upgraders... in fact, you might want to wait for one of them to reply before doing anything else?
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post #7334 of 25746 Old 11-08-2009, 08:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wajo View Post

2. Formatting the dirve in a computer. Anyone know if this can be overcome or "re-formatted" with a format or HDD Factory Check in the 2160A?

The SKIP 079 "formatting" of a new drive is very fast, perhaps just a few seconds with my 2080. I have some recollection that another poster mentioned that a drive that's already been formatted in a computer presents a more lengthy formatting process.

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post #7335 of 25746 Old 11-08-2009, 08:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DigaDo View Post

The SKIP 079 "formatting" of a new drive is very fast, perhaps just a few seconds with my 2080. I have some recollection that another poster mentioned that a drive that's already been formatted in a computer presents a more lengthy formatting process.

That's true and Sam's edited addition suggests maybe an even shorter time after pressing OK when the machine shut down? It might do that if the connection to the HDD is no good, so the question is: BEFORE presing OK for a format, did the Self-Check that occurs FIRST indicate a problem with the connections (see chart in the SKIP 079 procedure).

If that Self-Check showed a HDD in place with good connections (everything OK), then the Format should have took? If it didn't, it might indicate ... what????
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post #7336 of 25746 Old 11-08-2009, 08:32 PM
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Wajo,

I put my Hitachi back and everything works fine. I was scared to death when the top ribbon was so sticky that I was afraid that I might have broken it when trying to remove the ribbon from the HDD.
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post #7337 of 25746 Old 11-08-2009, 08:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Ontario View Post

Wajo,

I put my Hitachi back and everything works fine. I was scared to death when the top ribbon was so sticky that I was afraid that I might have broken it when trying to remove the ribbon from the HDD.

I have little experience with SATA hard drives but I'll throw this out for consideration:

With PATA hard drives jumper settings mean everything.

If SATA hard drives have jumpers you should check to see that the WD hard drive is jumpered just the same as the Hitachi.

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post #7338 of 25746 Old 11-08-2009, 08:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Ontario View Post

Wajo,

I put my Hitachi back and everything works fine. I was scared to death when the top ribbon was so sticky that I was afraid that I might have broken it when trying to remove the ribbon from the HDD.

Altho you'd hate to damage a ribbon cable, it's very easy to replace new. I'm sure some gearheads have ribbon cable in their pockets!

DigaDo's jumper idea sounds interesting?
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post #7339 of 25746 Old 11-08-2009, 08:40 PM
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DigaDo,

Both Hitachi and WD do not have jumpers on them. However, the WD says on the label: jumpered 1 & 2 enables SSC (Spread Spectrum Clocking), jumpered 3&4 enables PUIS (Power Up in Standby) jumpered 5&6 enables 1.5GB PHY. I wish I put a jumper on 5&6 and make it 1.5T instead of 1.5GB!

Wajo,

The ends of a ribbon might be difficult to tayler make.
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post #7340 of 25746 Old 11-08-2009, 08:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Sam, when you went to Format the WD, did the Self-Check that precedes the Format (OK) command show you had a good HDD connection?
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post #7341 of 25746 Old 11-08-2009, 08:57 PM
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Wajo,

When I pressed V.skip079, I saw both DVD and HDD connect OK. I cannot go down to the format start and highlighted it. So I just pressed OK. It seemed did a little HDD action and then shut down. When I tried to record, I got error E48.

Thanks for the tip about the ribbon. Do you know where can I buy one just in case I break it in future!

Strange, the WD under Windows Vista, it is shown as formatted with exFAT!
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post #7342 of 25746 Old 11-08-2009, 09:01 PM
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Wajo,

In the "Pioneers" section Dartman's linked 1/18/09 post describes his installation of a used computer hard drive.

Perhaps Auskck has also addressed used computer hard drives--not sure.

Sam,

Might the WD hard drive have some defect, perhaps a corruption to the boot sector or a partitioning irregularity?

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post #7343 of 25746 Old 11-08-2009, 09:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DigaDo View Post

Wajo,

In the "Pioneers" section Dartman's linked 1/18/09 post describes his installation of a used computer hard drive.

Perhaps Auskck has also addressed used computer hard drives--not sure.

At the moment I'm not coming up with any more thoughts based upon my own experience.

Yes, and he had formatted that drive in his Polaroid before, so the 2160A should re-format OK if we can figure this out.

Sam edited one of his posts to add that the WD does have a label stating jumper positions, and one is "jumpered 3&4 enables PUIS (Power Up in Standby)" which sounds maybe right cus we're always in Standby, but then maybe it shouldn't be jumpered at all.

WE NEED HELP!
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post #7344 of 25746 Old 11-08-2009, 09:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Ontario View Post

Wajo,

When I pressed V.skip079, I saw both DVD and HDD connect OK. I cannot go down to the format start and highlighted it. So I just pressed OK. It seemed did a little HDD action and then shut down. When I tried to record, I got error E48.

OK, so the connection to the HDD was OK, and the Format (OK) command did something cuz shutting down is the proper end of Format op, but E48 meant the unit couldn't record to it for some reason.

Check out the discussion above on Dartman's use of a previously formatted HDD and the new-found jumper descriptions?
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post #7345 of 25746 Old 11-08-2009, 09:36 PM
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Thanks DigaDo and Wajo.

Its now working. I simply put the WD back into 2160A. When I pressed "record", it shows some 413 EP hours. I don't know what caused it failed in the 1st place. Maybe it needs to pull the plug after format.
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post #7346 of 25746 Old 11-08-2009, 09:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Ontario View Post

DigaDo,

Both Hitachi and WD do not have jumpers on them. However, the WD says on the label: jumpered 1 & 2 enables SSC (Spread Spectrum Clocking), jumpered 3&4 enables PUIS (Power Up in Standby) jumpered 5&6 enables 1.5GB PHY. I wish I put a jumper on 5&6 and make it 1.5T instead of 1.5GB!

Wajo,

The ends of a ribbon might be difficult to tayler make.

Stephan56 noted in his HDD work on a 2160A that there was no jumper on the HDD:

"Because of tight space one has to unscrew the HD mounting plate from the main board in order to lift the HD out to unplug the SATA PCB board.
Once unplugged, I can see that there is no jumper block on the connectors on the back of the HD."

His post is here and might suggest that your WD drive should be UNJUMPERED?
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post #7347 of 25746 Old 11-08-2009, 09:57 PM
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Wajo,

Taking off the HDD mount is easy and is not as tight as Stephan sounds. Just today I had at least taken it off 3 times with the Hitachi and 4 times with the WD.

BTW is 413 EP hours completely used up that 640GB or just 500GB only?
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post #7348 of 25746 Old 11-08-2009, 10:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Ontario View Post

Wajo,

Taking off the HDD mount is easy and is not as tight as Stephan sounds. Just today I had at least taken it off 3 times with the Hitachi and 4 times with the WD.

BTW is 413 EP hours completely used up that 640GB or just 500GB only?

In the 3575, 3576 and original 2160, the FW limited HDD replacement/upgrade to 500GB. No one has yet reported if that same limit applies to the 2160A, which DOES have different FW.

The 413 hours you mention is for a 500GB drive at 4-hr-EP rec mode. It should be 620 at SLP, as shown in this chart of approx. hrs.

It would be great if you got that 640GB working and could report what the SLP hours were!
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post #7349 of 25746 Old 11-08-2009, 10:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Ontario View Post

Thanks DigaDo and Wajo.

Its now working. I simply put the WD back into 2160A. When I pressed "record", it shows some 413 EP hours. I don't know what caused it failed in the 1st place. Maybe it needs to pull the plug after format.

Sam and Wajo,

I'm glad that this has been resolved.

As an aside, while I was browsing around I came upon these Dartman posts describing the situation where one may assume that the format failed until a recording is made:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...6#post16643966

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...0#post16646520

"A ROSE BY ANY OTHER NAME WILL SMELL AS SWEET. BUT IT DOES NOT FOLLOW THAT WHATEVER WE CHOOSE TO CALL A ROSE WILL POSSESS THE ROSE'S FRAGRANCE."

--Benjamin Breckinridge Warfield (1917)
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post #7350 of 25746 Old 11-08-2009, 10:08 PM
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Yep, the clunker is still working fine too. We'll see in a few more days how many channels Comcrap has decided to leave us in the clear...
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