Magnavox 557, 537, 535, 533, 515, 513, 2160A, 2160, 2080 & Philips 3576, 3575 - Page 552 - AVS Forum
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post #16531 of 25902 Old 10-28-2011, 06:58 AM
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Originally Posted by JimLely View Post

O.K., I tried power off for 5 minutes and lost the clock and the programming; so it seems that there was a hardware change on the 515. Regardless, the 'V' is a great breakthrough and I'm very appreciative of the brave souls who discovered this.

Honestly, I didn't expect the firmware to affect the backup power settings. Most likely a difference in capacitors in the units.
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post #16532 of 25902 Old 10-28-2011, 07:04 AM
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Originally Posted by SwamJim View Post

I'll have to look at getting a UPS unit for both myself and my friend. I had thought of doing that but have been putting it off as I am not a tech sort of guy and know nothing about all this stuff, plus I'm an old guy on low social security income with not a lot of money. But I'm grateful to Wajo for his help, for I now have something to start from. I'll just have to research just what I will need to accomplish this power backup for the recorder and maybe also protect my other equipment. I just don't want to buy a lot more than I really will need.

UPS units are basically power strips/surge protectors on steroids (ie. they have a battery built in). For very light needs (backing up your DVDR and any other small components you don't want to lose power, even for a second), the cheapest ones will most likely suit your needs. You can get a low-end model for around $40, sometimes cheaper with sales. The low-end ones usually come with 3 battery-backup outlets, plus 3 surge-only outlets. The battery in them typically lasts about 3-5 years, in which a replacement battery will most likely run you almost the cost of a new unit.
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post #16533 of 25902 Old 10-28-2011, 08:30 AM
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I have NO problems dubbing HDD to DVD+RW using even crummy media (TDK). But dubbing to DVD+R I get the following error message even when using the ne plus ultra Verbatim AZO:

Recording Error
Can not record on this disc

E 3 54040990
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post #16534 of 25902 Old 10-28-2011, 08:31 AM
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Probably bad media.
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post #16535 of 25902 Old 10-28-2011, 08:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimLely View Post

I have NO problems dubbing HDD to DVD+RW using even crummy media (TDK). But dubbing to DVD+R I get the following error message even when using the ne plus ultra Verbatim AZO:

Recording Error
Can not record on this disc

E 3 54040990

Hopefully someone else can verify +R burns. I tried DVD-R, DVD-RW, DVD+RW. The only DVD+Rs that I have around are the incompatible DL discs.
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post #16536 of 25902 Old 10-28-2011, 09:08 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimLely View Post

I have NO problems dubbing HDD to DVD+RW using even crummy media (TDK). But dubbing to DVD+R I get the following error message even when using the ne plus ultra Verbatim AZO:

Recording Error
Can not record on this disc

E 3 54040990

See if one of those +R's will allow you to use the SKIP 123 code and read the Media ID (MID)? Exit as specified in that linked file... don't press OK to exit!

That'll give us an idea of the disc's mfg quality.


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post #16537 of 25902 Old 10-28-2011, 09:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wajo View Post

See if one of those +R's will allow you to use the SKIP 123 code and read the Media ID (MID)? Exit as specified in that linked file... don't press OK to exit!

That'll give us an idea of the disc's mfg quality.

Wajo,

The manufacturers ID on the Verbatim AZO is MCC.
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post #16538 of 25902 Old 10-28-2011, 10:07 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimLely View Post

Wajo,

The manufacturers ID on the Verbatim AZO is MCC.

MCC is a good code. So it's prob. not the disc brand.

Error E3 is "Cannot write the data after trying 3 times," as shown here.

Make sure there's no scratches or anything on the dye near the inner hub, which is where the V2160A is trying to test the disc and throws up that error.

Have you tried several discs from that MCC batch, like farther down the stack?

Do you have lots of time before the next timer program?

If all these are A-OK, there are also several other things you could try. ONE of which is a SKIP 987 Mfgrs Process Adjustment for DVD-R and DVD+R?

Maybe others have some more ideas?


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post #16539 of 25902 Old 10-28-2011, 10:44 AM
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Hi all,

Sorry if this is long but there may be something significant in some detail...

I have a 3575 (about 4 years old) and a 2160a (about 3 years old). Both are set to manual clock with a local analog pbs station. (I have cable - no box - with analog and digital stations.) I have never had a problem with either machine keeping the correct time or with freezes (both issues I see a lot of people having here). I know I haven't posted much but I've been following this thread and have gotten a lot of great info - thanks!

The 2160a is more of a backup that I don't use too much - only record about 2 shows a week on it. After reading everyone's great results with applying the "V" firmware, I decided it was worth a try yesterday.

So, I downloaded/burned/uploaded/rescanned/reset all my timers and settings, but couldn't really see any difference. D'oh - I'd downloaded the 513 version! So, downloaded the correct file, and went through the process again. (Now it's been through 2 upgrades in a row - shouldn't make a difference, right?) NOW I could see the "skip" option and and the title naming. Great! I ordered a 515 remote and started planning to swap this one with the 3575 to use for my "main" unit. I set up a few timer programs, including a daily one, which recorded successfully last night. This morning, I went in and changed it from daily to M-F and also set the skip flag so it won't record tonight. Everything looked normal then.

I come home about 12:30 this afternoon, and I see it's showing 12:00pm and making the little humming noise like it's searching for the time. It wouldn't respond to any buttons on the remote or on the front panel. I unplugged it for maybe 30 seconds, and when I plugged it back in, it had the correct time but still wouldn't respond/turn on at all.

Next, I unplugged it for a couple of minutes and plugged back in while holding the power button. Now it responded, but it had lost the time, my timer settings, and all my digital channels. When it turned on, it was on the analog pbs time-setting channel. It still had my other custom settings like "make recording compatible" and custom digital cc's.

So, I rescanned & reset my timers. Also did the "11:57" thing and it picked up the correct time. Everything looks okay now, but I wonder if I've introduced new problems with the new firmware. Like I said, it never had the freezing issue before. Has anyone else seen issues like this? (Meanwhile the 3575 is fine so I don't think there were cable or power issues.)

I will keep an eye on it and maybe change the time setting mode if it has problems again. Any thoughts?

Thanks!
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post #16540 of 25902 Old 10-28-2011, 10:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wajo View Post

MCC is a good code. So it's prob. not the disc brand.

Error E3 is "Cannot write the data after trying 3 times," as shown here.

Make sure there's no scratches or anything on the dye near the inner hub, which is where the V2160A is trying to test the disc and throws up that error.

Have you tried several discs from that MCC batch, like farther down the stack?

Do you have lots of time before the next timer program?

If all these are A-OK, there are also several other things you could try. ONE of which is a SKIP 987 Mfgrs Process Adjustment for DVD-R and DVD+R?

Maybe others have some more ideas?

O.K., I'll try that. One thing that needs mentioning: While I don't do a lot of HDD->DVD dubbing, I have NEVER been able to dub to DVD+R (regardless of the brand) but have ALWAYS been able to dub to DVD+RW (regardless of the brand.)

Jim
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post #16541 of 25902 Old 10-28-2011, 10:54 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TV123 View Post

I come home about 12:30 this afternoon, and I see it's showing 12:00pm and making the little humming noise like it's searching for the time. It wouldn't respond to any buttons on the remote or on the front panel. I unplugged it for maybe 30 seconds, and when I plugged it back in, it had the correct time but still wouldn't respond/turn on at all.

I don't think you have anything to worry about. The "problem" prob. occurred when you unplugged during the "humming at 12:00." That's Auto Clock searching all channels for a time (at noon and midnight, it thought it was 12:00), and you interrupted that, so I suspect it didn't like that.

Now that you've used teh 11:57 Procedure to find and CONFIRM a good time signal, I suspect everything should be back to normal again.

If you get any freezes or "dead" appearance, use the Soft Reset to fix. And throw away the crapola OEM batteries!


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post #16542 of 25902 Old 10-28-2011, 11:02 AM
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Originally Posted by wajo View Post

I don't think you have anything to worry about. The "problem" prob. occurred when you unplugged during the "humming at 12:00." That's Auto Clock searching all channels for a time (at noon and midnight, it thought it was 12:00), and you interrupted that, so I suspect it didn't like that.

Now that you've used teh 11:57 Procedure to find and CONFIRM a good time signal, I suspect everything should be back to normal again.

If you get any freezes or "dead" appearance, use the Soft Reset to fix. And throw away the crapola OEM batteries!

Thanks - that's reassuring. My concern was, it had apparently been searching for the time for over half an hour! (And, I waited a few minutes after I first noticed it before I did anything "drastic".) When I do it manually, it only takes a minute or 2.

And I'd like to throw away the entire 2160 remote! Maybe because I was used to the 3575 first, but it seemed like their goal in designing it was to make everything as different as possible! I have a 515 remote on order. To each his own, I guess.
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post #16543 of 25902 Old 10-28-2011, 11:28 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks - that's reassuring. My concern was, it had apparently been searching for the time for over half an hour! (And, I waited a few minutes after I first noticed it before I did anything "drastic".) When I do it manually, it only takes a minute or 2.

And I'd like to throw away the entire 2160 remote! Maybe because I was used to the 3575 first, but it seemed like their goal in designing it was to make everything as different as possible! I have a 515 remote on order. To each his own, I guess.

That time search prob. was "frozen" since that's what can happen in a cable system that has some "odd" (nasty) channels that make our machines go nuts on occasion. The old recommendation was to just turn Auto Clock off, but I'm trying to get as many people as possible used to The 11:57 Procedure cuz that allows them to use Auto Clock safely if they can find a channel with a good time signal, like FOX-HD. PBS is very bad here and other places as well, always wrong time.


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post #16544 of 25902 Old 10-28-2011, 12:01 PM
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Originally Posted by wajo View Post

That time search prob. was "frozen" since that's what can happen in a cable system that has some "odd" (nasty) channels that make our machines go nuts on occasion. The old recommendation was to just turn Auto Clock off, but I'm trying to get as many people as possible used to The 11:57 Procedure cuz that allows them to use Auto Clock safely if they can find a channel with a good time signal, like FOX-HD. PBS is very bad here and other places as well, always wrong time.

I'm not sure what the problem was in my case, then. I already had the channel set to one I've been using reliably for years. Hopefully it was just an unfortunate coincidence and nothing to do with the new firmware.
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post #16545 of 25902 Old 10-28-2011, 12:14 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm not sure what the problem was in my case, then. I already had the channel set to one I've been using reliably for years. Hopefully it was just an unfortunate coincidence and nothing to do with the new firmware.

If you ever need to stop the "whirring" of a time search again, just turn the machine on.


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post #16546 of 25902 Old 10-28-2011, 12:19 PM
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If you ever need to stop the "whirring" of a time search again, just turn the machine on.

Wait, that's what I tried to do in the first place. It wouldn't respond to the remote or to the buttons on the front panel That's what got me worried. I probably sound like I'm trying to convince myself there's a problem Really I was just curious if any of the other 2160a-upgraders have started running into problems.
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post #16547 of 25902 Old 10-28-2011, 01:42 PM
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TV123, I wonder if the reported 515 bug about having freeze issues when a unit is left on an analog channel (in your case PBS time search channel) has now been introduced into your V2160A?
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post #16548 of 25902 Old 10-28-2011, 02:00 PM
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Originally Posted by dare2be View Post

TV123, I wonder if the reported 515 bug about having freeze issues when a unit is left on an analog channel (in your case PBS time search channel) has now been introduced into your V2160A?

Interesting question... You've inspired me to look for other time signals. I found one on my digital fox station, so I'll leave it there and see what happens.
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post #16549 of 25902 Old 10-28-2011, 02:17 PM
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Originally Posted by TV123 View Post

Interesting question... You've inspired me to look for other time signals. I found one on my digital fox station, so I'll leave it there and see what happens.

Please excuse my interruption. Two things to consider. First, the test for a clock signal is valid when it is performed. Second, there may be a good clock signal on any channel but not when you tested for it.

Monday through Friday my PBS puts out a bad clock signal at midnight. My Fox channel puts out a bad signal on Saturday and Sunday nights.

Since the 2160A and its big brothers only look twice a day for two minutes, you might want to review your test procedure. It has been posted that a clock search starts at TV 2 and goes up. My PBS NTSC is 4 and FOX is 5.

I've been down this road a few times without ever reaching a happy ending. I can only envy those who have. For now I stick with manual and set the clock every few weeks. It's a small problem.
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post #16550 of 25902 Old 10-28-2011, 02:35 PM
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Please excuse my interruption. Two things to consider. First, the test for a clock signal is valid when it is performed. Second, there may be a good clock signal on any channel but not when you tested for it.

Monday through Friday my PBS puts out a bad clock signal at midnight. My Fox channel puts out a bad signal on Saturday and Sunday nights.

Since the 2160A and its big brothers only look twice a day for two minutes, you might want to review your test procedure. It has been posted that a clock search starts at TV 2 and goes up. My PBS NTSC is 4 and FOX is 5.

I've been down this road a few times without ever reaching a happy ending. I can only envy those who have. For now I stick with manual and set the clock every few weeks. It's a small problem.

Not an interruption at all. I'm interested in any info anyone can offer. I guess I've been spoiled by 3-4 years of no problems at all with time setting. Just have to wonder if the new firmware has anything to do with all this. I'll wait and see if problems recur.
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post #16551 of 25902 Old 10-28-2011, 04:06 PM
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Originally Posted by dare2be View Post

TV123, I wonder if the reported 515 bug about having freeze issues when a unit is left on an analog channel (in your case PBS time search channel) has now been introduced into your V2160A?

I wonder if downgrading a 515 with 2160A firmware will fix the freeze bug on those units.
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post #16552 of 25902 Old 10-28-2011, 04:09 PM
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Originally Posted by TV123 View Post

I'm not sure what the problem was in my case, then. I already had the channel set to one I've been using reliably for years. Hopefully it was just an unfortunate coincidence and nothing to do with the new firmware.

I always use DTV 29 for auto clock manual. I've slipped a few times and set it to analog CH 29. Maybe that's what happened to yours.
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post #16553 of 25902 Old 10-28-2011, 05:14 PM
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UPS units are basically power strips/surge protectors on steroids (ie. they have a battery built in). For very light needs (backing up your DVDR and any other small components you don't want to lose power, even for a second), the cheapest ones will most likely suit your needs. You can get a low-end model for around $40, sometimes cheaper with sales. The low-end ones usually come with 3 battery-backup outlets, plus 3 surge-only outlets. The battery in them typically lasts about 3-5 years, in which a replacement battery will most likely run you almost the cost of a new unit.

Thanks, Dare2be, for the info. And thanks to Wajo and the others for their help as well. I still need a little more clarification on one more issue.

I spent a couple of hours, last night, looking at the things Wajo recommended in his help file, looking at a number of UPS models, and trying to get some basic information on UPS devices off of the Net. I know nothing about electronics and all of that, so I just find my head is still spinning. I really appreciate Dare2be and Wajo's advice, and that gets me going in the right direction. But I came across so much technical stuff, but nothing seemed to answer one final basic question I have: How long of a backup during a power outage will the UPS give me with my 2160A or give my friend with her 515?

From surfing around, I do know that this isn't an easy question to answer, and it all depends on the devices you have on the UPS and the power they draw in standby and the like. And it seems a lot of the stuff I did find on backup duration was centered around how long you can still use the device for a while on the battery backup. I also reread Wajo's Help page today and found the section on runtime, but I am confused about what is meant by 'runtime.'

As it is, I am just looking for power backup during outages for my Maggie unit. I'm not that concerned about loosing a recording or loosing timer setups or the rest: life happens. I just want some backup to help prevent the problem of freeze-up after an outage. I just find it scary when the machine won't come on and worry about it being fried. I perfectly expect that nothing is perfect and that eventually a power outage will be long enough such that the reset procedure is necessary, but I want to try to prevent that as much as I can.

So, let's assume I get a very basic UPS 200W unit, such as Wajo indicated he has. And, for now, let's further assume that I just have my Maggie unit on it for power back up. Is there any way of giving me a rough idea of how long of a backup I'll get, further assuming I am not actually using the unit and it is in standby?

About such a rating as '200W', how does that translate? Is it as simple as: you having 200W to draw on, and since Wajo indicated the our units use 5.7W per hour, doing the division gives you a back up time of a little over 35 hours. That seems impossible; so how does it work?

Finally, when they use the term 'runtime', what does that mean. Is that the time you have if you are actively using the device, of does that also include a situation if the device is in standby all the time?

I hope you guys don't mind these rather simplistic questions. I just don't want to end up spending a lot on a UPS that may give me only 15 or 30 minutes of backup; I'd take my chances otherwise. But a back up of an hour or more would be a lot better.
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post #16554 of 25902 Old 10-28-2011, 05:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by SwamJim View Post

I came across so much technical stuff, but nothing seemed to answer one final basic question I have: How long of a backup during a power outage will the UPS give me with my 2160A or give my friend with her 515?

I've been working on the UPS help file off and on all day and I think there might be an answer there now. Check it out and let us know if any help on that one question?


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post #16555 of 25902 Old 10-28-2011, 05:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by SwamJim View Post

About such a rating as '200W', how does that translate? Is it as simple as: you having 200W to draw on, and since Wajo indicated the our units use 5.7W per hour, doing the division gives you a back up time of a little over 35 hours. That seems impossible; so how does it work?

Your question exposed a "flaw" in my help file description... I should have left the "per hour" out of that UPS run time discussion. See the new discussion.

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Finally, when they use the term 'runtime', what does that mean. Is that the time you have if you are actively using the device, of does that also include a situation if the device is in standby all the time?

I fixed that also in the help file so it explains run time, which is how long the UPS will be able to power a unit at a specified Power Draw in Watts (like our 5.7W Power Draw in Standby).


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post #16556 of 25902 Old 10-28-2011, 05:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wajo View Post

I've been working on the UPS help file off and on all day and I think there might be an answer there now.

Thanks, Wajo. So I think I've got it. Then I'm taking 'Runtime' to mean whatever power the unit is drawing during that time, whether it is on or not: 5.5-5.7W in standby for our case.

And so, in your estimation for 200W unit like yours, I would get 46 minutes of backup time out of it.

Am I interpreting these things correctly?
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post #16557 of 25902 Old 10-28-2011, 06:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SwamJim View Post

Thanks, Wajo. So I think I've got it. Then I'm taking 'Runtime' to mean whatever power the unit is drawing during that time, whether it is on or not: 5.5-5.7W in standby for our case.

And so, in your estimation for 200W unit like yours, I would get 46 minutes of backup time out of it.

Am I interpreting these things correctly?

Based on Kansas_Tom's actual measurements posted later here, I revised the help file to point to his post for some actual UPS runtimes with our DVDRs.


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post #16558 of 25902 Old 10-28-2011, 06:01 PM
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Originally Posted by wajo View Post

I fixed that also in the help file so it explains run time, which is how long the UPS will be able to power a unit at a specified Power Draw in Watts (like our 5.7W Power Draw in Standby).

Shouldn't we be using the operating power draw instead of standby draw when sizing the UPS? Timer recordings will turn the recorder on. Unless you have a UPS large enough to run your TV it won't be easy to cancel a timer recording when the lights go out.

FYI, my Kill A Watt meter says the 513 draws 4.5 watts in standby and 23 to 27 watts when turned on.
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post #16559 of 25902 Old 10-28-2011, 07:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Ken.F View Post

Shouldn't we be using the operating power draw instead of standby draw when sizing the UPS? Timer recordings will turn the recorder on. Unless you have a UPS large enough to run your TV it won't be easy to cancel a timer recording when the lights go out.

FYI, my Kill A Watt meter says the 513 draws 4.5 watts in standby and 23 to 27 watts when turned on.

I'll split the difference and my Kill-A-Watt says 5 watts in standby. That's (in my opinion) about 10 times too high. If non-manual clock is enabled, it will jump up to your 25 watts twice a day. However if your power is off over 12 hours, the 515H is probably not a high priority.

Going to (cheap) max I would use a CyberPower 1500VA / 900W Intelligent LCD Battery Backup UPS at $166 from Walmart. Cheaper is CyberPower 600VA / 340W Intelligent LCD Battery Backup UPS that will keep the 515H and your answering machine & router running for several hours. I have two of them. I also have two APC 1500VA units with battery packs due to my bad power feed. My electric company has a nice web site with imaginary numbers when the power fails. But it's nice to look at. I use my laptop for that. But something needs to power the modem & router.

Easy test: get best UPS for your budget on sale, plug a 7w incandescent night light into it then pull the plug. See how long the light stays on. An analog electric clock is expensive but I have two from eBay used to measure the runtime of my UPS or inverters.

On my inverter I hooked up a 500W resistive load and an analog clock. The inverter ran for 90 minutes. It took 8 hours to recharge the marine battery.

It will be amazing if I don't lose power tomorrow. But then, I don't really care. I will be the third time this month.
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post #16560 of 25902 Old 10-28-2011, 08:56 PM
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My UPS experience ...

I had an APC 280VA-170W unit that would keep a 2160 that was recording running for a little over an hour and several hours in standby.

I have a CyberPower 685VA-390W unit that kept 2-2160's and a 3576 that were recording going for about 30 minutes but would keep them going for hours in standby.

The 280VA has been retired and the 685VA now only has the 3576 on it. I have a new CyberPower 1350VA-810W UPS serving my 3 Maggies but I haven't had a power outage to test this new setup yet.
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