Magnavox 557, 537, 535, 533, 515, 513, 2160A, 2160, 2080 & Philips 3576, 3575 - Page 608 - AVS Forum
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post #18211 of 25902 Old 01-23-2012, 10:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonB2 View Post

It just seems like the goal is to make it very difficult to record Cable or OTA with even digital quality.

USB TV tuners for PC's seem to be one of the few choices left to folks in US and Canada.

It is very difficult. I can, from personal experience, say that there are fee-free devices for HD recording you should not buy. I may find more.

Using the generic term "HTPC", you get great fexibility and quality at the price of complexity. I wish I could say something good about fee-free digital home recording devices, but only the Magnavox units come close to the usability of a VCR with extras. They have a great digital playback and are simple to use. But no HD, DD5.1, internet or guide. That's what all those off shore devices give you for twice the price.

I notice the lack of 480i in the French translation. Europe doesn't use 480i of course. Probably part of that 50/60 Hz thing you mentioned. I don't know. I don't know why it's 480 and not 525 either.

So I wait for our knight in shining armor. It would be nice if it was Funai. They have been good to us so far.
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post #18212 of 25902 Old 01-23-2012, 10:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wajo View Post

Not having a 16:9 WS HDTV, or not setting your 16:9 WS HDTV for "Wide" or "Full" or whatever your TV has for a 16:9 WS show? On my Vizio, your current settings is "Normal."

Or the show was produced and sent in 4:3, which will remain 4:3 no matter what Mag aspect setting?

Or(?) playing back to a TV input that automatically sets 4:3, like a VCR input port of some sort (far out WAG)???

Have HDTV, program broadcasted in widescreen, TV set to native input --which will change aspect based on what is sent. Could not check picture being recorded, 3 am.
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post #18213 of 25902 Old 01-23-2012, 10:55 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by excolprof View Post

Have HDTV, program broadcasted in widescreen, TV set to native input --which will change aspect based on what is sent. Could not check picture being recorded, 3 am.

I doubt that "native input" is what you want since the DVD Standard requires a "native" aspect of 4:3 but allows pixel and compression specs that fill that 4:3 frame with pixels that a HDTV can stretch out to a true 16:9 WS display on a 16:9 WS HDTV.

More info here, esp. in my "rant."


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post #18214 of 25902 Old 01-23-2012, 11:06 AM
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wajo,
Read your post re: this subject, esp. "rants". What I don't get is that if the HDTV is set to "Native" programs of various ilks are displayed correctly, i.e., 4:3, letterbox, widescreen.
Could it be that during recording the 515 sees the widescreen program but reduces the size (width) which then cuts-off some of the sides?
I don't fully understand this whole recording, sending signals, etc.
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post #18215 of 25902 Old 01-23-2012, 11:14 AM
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If I did not know better I would think that MFG's of OTA DVR equipment are being paid by SONY and other Studios not to make the devices.

Similar to farmers being paid not to grow certain cops.

Sorry for the Paranoia.

I hope indeed we have a knight in shining armor
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post #18216 of 25902 Old 01-23-2012, 11:21 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by excolprof View Post

wajo,
Read your post re: this subject, esp. "rants". What I don't get is that if the HDTV is set to "Native" programs of various ilks are displayed correctly, i.e., 4:3, letterbox, widescreen.
Could it be that during recording the 515 sees the widescreen program but reduces the size (width) which then cuts-off some of the sides?
I don't fully understand this whole recording, sending signals, etc.

Yes, a DVD recorder is different than broadcast programs...they HAVE TO BE in a 4:3 frame for recording because the DVD Standard requires it.

So, when you send that 4:3 frame to a HDTV with various aspect settings, you don't want "native" in a HDTV like yours (I suspect) because "native" is 4:3 (frame-wise). Choose instead a "Wide" of "Full" or "16:9" setting, whatever that's called in your TV.


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post #18217 of 25902 Old 01-23-2012, 11:37 AM
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wajo,
Thanks for the info. I think I have my head around this a little more now. My TV has these settings for picture size: Native, 4:3, Full, TheaterWide 1, TheaterWide 2, TheaterWide 3 and Normal. I will try various sizes to see what happens when recording with the 515. The TV manual states that "Native" is used for all signal programs and will scale the entire picture within the borders of the screen--no overscanning--none of the picture is hidden. But, a note, "depending on the input signals the border of the picture may be hidden". This is why I selected "Native" to be the pic size. Right or wrong, maybe should change?
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post #18218 of 25902 Old 01-23-2012, 11:47 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by excolprof View Post

wajo,
Thanks for the info. I think I have my head around this a little more now. My TV has these settings for picture size: Native, 4:3, Full, TheaterWide 1, TheaterWide 2, TheaterWide 3 and Normal. I will try various sizes to see what happens when recording with the 515. The TV manual states that "Native" is used for all signal programs and will scale the entire picture within the borders of the screen--no overscanning--none of the picture is hidden. But, a note, "depending on the input signals the border of the picture may be hidden". This is why I selected "Native" to be the pic size. Right or wrong, maybe should change?

I predict "Full" is what you need.


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post #18219 of 25902 Old 01-23-2012, 12:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonB2 View Post

If I did not know better I would think that MFG's of OTA DVR equipment are being paid by SONY and other Studios not to make the devices.

Similar to farmers being paid not to grow certain cops.

Sorry for the Paranoia.

I hope indeed we have a knight in shining armor

It's not paranoia, is the awful truth.

BTW the new American Funai BR BH2-M200/300 recorder only will need to add a new power circuit, the ATSC/QAM/NTSC tuners and the right inputs and outputs: some 75 Ohm F-Type, S-Video and YWR. Is that so expensive, so hard to install? In the 80's a kid with a Weller living near to a Radio Shack will do the convert for nothing.



Of course, there won't be HDMI or component inputs (Thx to GREEDYWOOD), so that machine still don't do the job for some purists, but will do happy to many consumers.
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post #18220 of 25902 Old 01-23-2012, 12:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fredfredfred View Post

Thanks Wajo, I did not realize it was confirmed.

FFF

Fred, I have a pair of 2080's. Saturday got a call from the boss that she needed help with the TV. All DTV stations were gone. I didn't look at the analog channel list.
I went through the channel setup procedure and it found everything after a full scan.
This also happened several months ago on the other 2080. Press 2.1 for DTV channel 2, and nothing happened, ditto for all other digitals. The same recovery procedure worked there, and it has not re-occurred since that time, likely last summer.
The only thing I could think of that caused the loss was a power supply spike or sag causing the EEPROM memory to get wiped. I hope that this does not become a fad with these two.
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post #18221 of 25902 Old 01-23-2012, 12:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wajo View Post

Thanks, and for any other 515 Refurb owners... AND 513 REFURB OWNERS TOO... who have not yet updated their FW... here's a formatted list to copy/use for posting their FW numbers (these are original OEM FW Versions numbers):

Model: E2S02UD
DTV-S: 0x2B
FE: R60_001_000
BE: HD6A269724V1E
TT: T5011RDU@5

Wajo,
Just back after a long absence. Am horrified to see how many posts I'm behind (about 150 pages worth). At any rate, I was looking for info on the FW on my new 515H/F7 - oh yes, the 726V. I was surprised to see that the topic has just recently come up. So after reading the posts, I see that you want some info from those of us that have a unit with said FW. I do, mine is just as you have posted it. The unit is a new one, ordered in late Nov '11 and received in early Dec '11. Thanks for all your help and thanks to others as well. Steve
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post #18222 of 25902 Old 01-23-2012, 01:10 PM
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Had a 4 hour power outage yesterday and the only thing I lost on my 515 was the clock & timed programmed events! All my DTV & analog channels were still programmed! Very cool!

My roommate has an old JVC DVR upstairs that retained Everything! Of course he had to rub it in, but I threw the fact that he has an archaic Analog tuner ONLY! LOL

MDR515H/F7 Lover/User/Tester
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post #18223 of 25902 Old 01-23-2012, 01:52 PM
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I'm confused! Without component or hdmi inputs, how would one record in HD or record a blue ray?

Personally, I've always been very interested in making blue rays of my favorite movies taken off of premium channels. I'm still interested, but getting more intrigued by just moving to an HTPC and keeping stuff on a series of HDs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by profhat View Post

It's not paranoia, is the awful truth.

BTW the new American Funai BR BH2-M200/300 recorder only will need to add a new power circuit, the ATSC/QAM/NTSC tuners and the right inputs and outputs: some 75 Ohm F-Type, S-Video and YWR. Is that so expensive, so hard to install? In the 80's a kid with a Weller living near to a Radio Shack will do the convert for nothing.



Of course, there won't be HDMI or component inputs (Thx to GREEDYWOOD), so that machine still don't do the job for some purists, but will do happy to many consumers.

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post #18224 of 25902 Old 01-23-2012, 02:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wajo View Post

Yes, but that's only a ~10-day supply at current selling rate.

Have 513s really been selling as fast as 515s?

Genuine HD via ATSC and BUD satellite DVB.
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post #18225 of 25902 Old 01-23-2012, 02:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by mrmazda View Post

Have 513s really been selling as fast as 515s?

No, only when they're out of 515's, and esp. since more people are learning of SuperFW 727V.... !!!


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post #18226 of 25902 Old 01-23-2012, 02:55 PM
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Originally Posted by wajo View Post

Too bad that's not your REAL interest.

Project much?
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post #18227 of 25902 Old 01-23-2012, 03:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGA$$TV View Post

.........Personally, I've always been very interested in making blue rays of my favorite movies taken off of premium channels..........

Under current law, that would be a violation of the "Intellectual Property Act" as well as the proposed PIPA (Protect IP Act) and SOPA (Stop Online Piracy Act) currently under debate in Congress.

One reason you don't see many HDD/DVD combo recorders in North America is due to a small company called TiVo. Type "tivo lawsuit" (without quotation marks) into Google and take your pick of the legal suits listed. TiVo spends over 60% of their net income on legal action. So far, TiVo's wins include $500 million from Echostar (Dish Networks) and $215 million plus from AT&T.

So what's next? Well TiVo have now also set their sights on what is called IPTV (Internet Protocol Televison) or TV delivered over the internet.

Enjoy what you have today.......tomorrow it will either cost you more, or be illegal.

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post #18228 of 25902 Old 01-23-2012, 04:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonB2 View Post

If I did not know better I would think that MFG's of OTA DVR equipment are being paid by SONY and other Studios not to make the devices.

Similar to farmers being paid not to grow certain cops.

Sorry for the Paranoia.

I hope indeed we have a knight in shining armor

The odds are not in our favor. If the audio recording industry can kill the DAT for consumer use (and mis-use), anything is possible. Yet the DAT is still used for data backup because it is more reliable than a DVD. Don't worry about the paranoia, it's not like people still make HDD recorders for security systems.
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post #18229 of 25902 Old 01-23-2012, 05:38 PM
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I always thought that making recordings for personal use was okay.

Not sure what TIVO suits over DVR patents have to do with making blue ray recordings.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stapler1234 View Post

Under current law, that would be a violation of the "Intellectual Property Act" as well as the proposed PIPA (Protect IP Act) and SOPA (Stop Online Piracy Act) currently under debate in Congress.

One reason you don't see many HDD/DVD combo recorders in North America is due to a small company called TiVo. Type "tivo lawsuit" (without quotation marks) into Google and take your pick of the legal suits listed. TiVo spends over 60% of their net income on legal action. So far, TiVo's wins include $500 million from Echostar (Dish Networks) and $215 million plus from AT&T.

So what's next? Well TiVo have now also set their sights on what is called IPTV (Internet Protocol Televison) or TV delivered over the internet.

Enjoy what you have today.......tomorrow it will either cost you more, or be illegal.

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post #18230 of 25902 Old 01-23-2012, 05:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGA$$TV View Post

I'm confused! Without component or hdmi inputs, how would one record in HD or record a blue ray?...

I think that's the point. The referred to "Greedywood" is the TV and movie industry that don't/doesn't want us recording stuff in HD. The machine would likely be able to record onto a Blu-Ray disc, but in Standard Def, just like the current Maggies do with DVDs, even if the channel being recorded is broadcasting in HD.

That was why I asked earlier what the capacity of a Blu-Ray disc would be if it only had SD recordings put on it.

Must be a whole lot more than just 6 hours, even at the lowest picture quality.
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post #18231 of 25902 Old 01-23-2012, 06:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken.F View Post

More specs for the BH2-M300 here (translated from French).

Only thing I spotted that addressed capacity was this-

Recording Modes: TS / XP / SP / LP / EP / SLP

I'd guess that XP is the same as "HP" in English, and maybe TS means it just records the digital stream as is.

If so, this would mean it can record in HD, but still doesn't tell us what the SD capacity would be of a Blu-Ray disc.

Maybe the machine just plain wouldn't allow you to record in SD on a Blu-Ray?
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post #18232 of 25902 Old 01-23-2012, 06:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGA$$TV View Post

I always thought that making recordings for personal use was okay.

Not sure what TIVO suits over DVR patents have to do with making blue ray recordings.

Nothing really. See http://www.computerworld.com/s/artic...st_215_million

It's mainly the guide and how you make recordings using it. No guide = no suit for the most part. Single tuner = no suit for the most part.

I have four Sony DHG units. They record in HD and need TVGOS to work. And they have two tuners, but only one can be used at anytime. And they stopped making them in 2005 after about six months.
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post #18233 of 25902 Old 01-23-2012, 07:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGA$$TV View Post

I always thought that making recordings for personal use was okay.

Not sure what TIVO suits over DVR patents have to do with making blue ray recordings.

It was legal until around 2000 when congress passed DMCA = digital millennium copyright act

It's still legal to record anything that is not copy protected. Anything that has encryption (DVD, Blu-Ray, scrambled cable, etc) is off limits. The movie and TV industry seems to have scared everyone into believing all HD content is included and therefoe no HD burners/recorders. Down converting to 480i, somehow gets around the rules. Laws are already in place forcing DVRs into removing/disabiling analog outputs within the next couple of years. Maybe why no more 515 or a follow on product.
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post #18234 of 25902 Old 01-23-2012, 07:10 PM
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Originally Posted by rdgcss View Post

It was legal until around 2000 when congress passed DMCA = digital millennium copyright act

It's still legal to record anything that is not copy protected. Anything that has encryption (DVD, Blu-Ray, scrambled cable, etc) is off limits. The movie and TV industry seems to have scared everyone into believing all HD content is included and therefoe no HD burners/recorders. Down converting to 480i, somehow gets around the rules. Laws are already in place forcing DVRs into removing/disabiling analog outputs within the next couple of years. Maybe why no more 515 or a follow on product.

Yep, sounds eerily similar to what I posted here in this other thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...3#post21538793
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post #18235 of 25902 Old 01-23-2012, 08:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGA$$TV View Post

I'm confused! Without component or hdmi inputs, how would one record in HD or record a blue ray?

The only HD input would come from the tuner. All OTA can be recorded/burned as HD; any cable broadcasts that are not marked with a copy-once CCI bit can be recorded/burned as HD. All this talk of laws preventing HD recording are nonsense. Anyone with an HD tuner card in a PC can record and burn as much OTA HD or unprotected QAM as they want. Anyone with a networked TiVo can transfer to a PC and burn as much OTA HD or unprotected QAM as they want.
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That was why I asked earlier what the capacity of a Blu-Ray disc would be if it only had SD recordings put on it.

More than I'm sure you suspect. A BD-R has the capacity to hold 5 full DVD-R. On top of that, you don't record in MPEG-2 to a BD-R (actually you could but nobody does), you transcode MPEG-2 to H.264/AVC which will allow you to drop the bitrate by 30-40% without loss of quality. In the case of SD recordings, once transcoded to H.264 I can fit a whole season of 1hr episodes on a single BD-R in full DVD quality.

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post #18236 of 25902 Old 01-23-2012, 08:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Kelson View Post

All this talk of laws preventing HD recording are nonsense. Anyone with an HD tuner card in a PC can record and burn as much OTA HD or unprotected QAM as they want.

There's the rub...unprotected QAM is fast disappearing. Satellite and streaming services are transmitting more programs/channels with copy-once CCI bit or HDCP. HD analog inputs/outputs are disappearing from hardware. It's possible now, but very soon less and less content will be able to be recorded, outside of record/watch/delete DVR functions. I wouldn't be surprised if OTA would soon start falling down the CCI/HDCP slippery slope as well.
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post #18237 of 25902 Old 01-23-2012, 09:29 PM
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There's the rub...unprotected QAM is fast disappearing. Satellite and streaming services are transmitting more programs/channels with copy-once CCI bit or HDCP.

That is their right. They are not part of the public airwaves. They sell a service. There is no law that says they have to protect their signal - they choose to do so as part of their business model. Buying their service means you agree to abide by their terms.

I don't particularly like that model, so I don't buy their service.

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post #18238 of 25902 Old 01-23-2012, 09:55 PM - Thread Starter
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A heads-up for late-comers: Revised, based on Walmart sales of 513's so far today (~15 hours)...

Quote:
Originally Posted by CO-Zman View Post

515's all gone, but still 907 513's available

Quote:
Originally Posted by wajo View Post

Yes, but that's only a ~10-day 6-day supply at current selling rate.

Here's hoping there's another batch on the way!?



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post #18239 of 25902 Old 01-23-2012, 10:32 PM
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In the past 20 years, as the oligarchs who run the USA suppress innovation and choice for consumers in the electronic marketplace, the USA has become a technological backwater with the exception of computer hardware and networking sites like Google. Now, with the corrupt Congress leading the way (just as Congress did in 1999 with its repeal of the Glass-Steagall Act of 1934, the root cause of the world economic crash in 2008, a crash that is now allowing the banksters to go on a feeding frenzy in the Eurozone), the code words "intellectual property" are used by the fraudsters in Congress to blackmail high tech companies into buying the bureaucrats off with "campaign contributions." Thanks to crooked bureaucrats at the FCC, OTA free TV is a thing of the past for most viewers.

The national news on TV is pablum, the main news about these days glorifying sleazoid politicians of both parties while pretty much ignoring stuff like the meth epidemic, the rip-off of hundreds of billions in TARP money, the politicians who made 8 and 9 figure sums as war profiteers and the demise of DVD recorders only here in the USA. Hollywood's problem is not movie piracy, its problem is that most U.S. made movies have a shelf life of one weekend at the box office. The recent arrest of Kim Dotcom is what you would expect from a government good only at shipping off jobs overseas and its soldiers wherever a drug dealing "ally"needs help (e.g. Afghanistan). The contempt this government has for its citizens is shown by the plan to require TVs to have only HDMI outputs. Not a word from the national news on this outlawing of analog outputs, where "happy talk" segments like NBC's "Making A Difference" close out many newscasts with their worthless drivel. There is a word for the phoney news we get that ignores the bad treatment of the U.S. consumer when it comes to video technology; that word is "disinformation." Hopefully, Jesse Ventura is wrong and these government attempts to restrict the flow of information on the Internet are not part of some grander scheme to create a police state here, complete with plans to fill up with political malcontents the massive prison camps Homeland Security has already built all over the country.

I am really angry that I have had to buy the Magnavox 515s I have now on short notice thanks to the government ordering Funai to stop distributing them in the USA.
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post #18240 of 25902 Old 01-23-2012, 10:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelson View Post

That is their right. They are not part of the public airwaves. They sell a service. There is no law that says they have to protect their signal - they choose to do so as part of their business model. Buying their service means you agree to abide by their terms.

It's the other way around...there are laws that prevent the public airways from using that business model. If the OTA networks could, they would. Also, it usually isn't the service (content distributors like Dish, Direct) that enforce the signal protection, it's the content owners/providers that demand it. What makes things worse is the lines are muddied between content owners and distributors thanks to the Telecom Act of 1996 allowing oligopoly conglomerates (NBC/Comcast as an example).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelson View Post

I don't particularly like that model, so I don't buy their service.

I agree, yet there is a significant segment of the population where that is their only choice, as public airways are inaccessible.
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