Magnavox 557, 537, 535, 533, 515, 513, 2160A, 2160, 2080 & Philips 3576, 3575 - Page 66 - AVS Forum
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post #1951 of 25743 Old 10-08-2008, 12:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wajo View Post

Interesting stuff.
I'm going to see what happens with my 3575's when I connect the HDMI to HDMI-2 input on my TVs and, as you and the Wikis mentioned, set my HDMI Format to RGB/Normal.

I will be looking forward to see the results.
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post #1952 of 25743 Old 10-08-2008, 12:58 PM
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Wajo, I looked around info for your TV (Vizio GV47L 47" 1080P), I found an interesting fact. It does overscan in all i/p except for 1080p.

I didn't find any reference to Gamma Correction though.

Can you please do the following observaiton
- Set TV to HDMI, Set 3575 to 1080p YCbCr: Is the picture on TV clipped in from (I do not expect it to be clipped).
- Set TV to HDMI, Set 3575 to 720p YCbCr: Is the picture on TV clipped in from (I expect it to be clipped). Also is there any difference in picture darkness with that of 1080p.

- Set TV to DVI, Set 3575 to RGB/Normal, 1080P: Is the picture on TV clipped in from (I do not expect it to be clipped). Is the picture any darker/brighter ?
- Set TV to DVI, Set 3575 to RGB/Normal, 720P: Is the picture on TV clipped in from (I do not expect it to be clipped). Is the picture any darker/brighter ?

Just curious.

Thanks.
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post #1953 of 25743 Old 10-08-2008, 02:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by video_guy View Post

Wajo, I looked around info for your TV (Vizio GV47L 47" 1080P), I found an interesting fact. It does overscan in all i/p except for 1080p.

I didn't find any reference to Gamma Correction though.

Can you please do the following observaiton
- Set TV to HDMI, Set 3575 to 1080p YCbCr: Is the picture on TV clipped in from (I do not expect it to be clipped).
- Set TV to HDMI, Set 3575 to 720p YCbCr: Is the picture on TV clipped in from (I expect it to be clipped). Also is there any difference in picture darkness with that of 1080p.

Don't have a TV setting for DVI, but I did ratchet thru the 4 HDMI output modes on my 47" 1080p LCD's HDMI-1 connection and saw an interesting "shift."

I tuned to my fav test channel, QVC, which keeps a banner at the bottom of the screen long enough to make position comparisons.

Going from HDMI 480p to 720p made only a very slight change in position of the bottom-left corner of the banner (barely noticeable), but going to 1080i moved that corner of the banner up and right ~3/4", and going to 1080p moved that corner further right ~3/4" more but about the same pos up as 1080i. (Distances could have been anywhere from 1/2" to 1", didn't measure.)

I had to do this during a break in my CFO/wife's Soap watching timeshift, and she told me to tell everyone, "You're all crazy, driving yourself nuts over a tiny little difference... it looks good so just leave it alone!" or something along those lines.

My 480p *MIGHT* look brighter than 1080p... VERY little diff. in brightness and really hard to say there was any. My CFO/wife just said, "ehhh"... but then she thinks we're full-o-shitzu anyway!

We both thought 480p was slightly but noticeably sharper than other modes.
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post #1954 of 25743 Old 10-08-2008, 02:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wajo View Post

Going from HDMI 480p to 720p made only a very slight change in position of the bottom-left corner of the banner (barely noticeable), but going to 720p moved that corner of the banner up and right, and going to 1080p moved that corner further right but about the same pos up as 720p.

This test shows various degree of overscan in each mode. Looks like 1080p do not have any overscan as already stated on other board for your TV. Also Gamma correction is consistent in all mode.

I will be qurious to know the same experiments when you connect to HDMI-2 (your TV's DVI connection) and 3575 in RGB.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wajo View Post

I had to do this during a break in my CFO/wife's Soap watching timeshift, and she told me to tell everyone, "You're all crazy, driving yourself nuts over a tiny little difference... it looks good so just leave it alone!" or something along those lines.

My 480p *MIGHT* look brighter than 1080p... VERY little diff. in brightness and really hard to say there was any... my CFO/wife just said, "ehhh"... but then she thinks we're full-o-shitzu anyway!

Don't worry, this experience is universal and I am no different.

But this little difference can mean alot. I edited my home video and timestamped the video such that the text was 10 pixels from bottom and 10 pixel from right. But My TV's HDMI i/p was overscanning hence the home video DVD was not showing full text. The text was clipped. But when I switched to DVI, full text was there. One solution is to move the text away from margin, but for that I needed to redo the video and then text will cover more picture. So we guys have to worry about little things.
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post #1955 of 25743 Old 10-08-2008, 02:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Not that it matters much, but I had to change my OP above to say "1080i" moved the bottom-left corner up and right rather than 720p, then 1080p moved it further right... see corrected post.
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post #1956 of 25743 Old 10-08-2008, 04:35 PM
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wajo,
You have made this pretty easy for me as I was having a hard time getting good info on the Phillips system.
I just have to ask a question before I go and buy this because if I buy it and it doesn't do what I think it will do my wife will never let me hear the end of it.
I have an RV that is wayyyy out in the middle of no where and I can't get cable, can't use aerial antenna and because of the trees I can't use a dish.
My thought would be to record at home (I have Comcast at home) and then take the Phillips 3576 with me to my RV and hook it up to my TV there so I have TV. I can do this, right? Hope this isn't too stupid of a question but my thinking is this is the only way I am going to be able to watch TV.
Thanks, Jim
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post #1957 of 25743 Old 10-08-2008, 04:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Jim, all you need is 110-120V power, then watch things you recorded at home on the HDD or commercial movies you buy or rent! TV needs line inputs for best pic (Composite, S-Video, Component or HDMI). I'd take a rabbit ears too, just in case!

Try copying some of your VHS movies too... I copied 7 of 12 of mine w/o problem. You'll know right away if the copy-protection won't let you copy... big menu comes up saying no-can-do!
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post #1958 of 25743 Old 10-08-2008, 10:32 PM
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wajo:
Fed Ex delivered the 2160 today. Hooked it up -- coax to 3576, to the 2160 and to TV. It is on HDMI 2 -- the TV has 4 HDMI connections.
What happened is the signal must be degraded--the 2160 reception wasn't good and even the 3576 , first in line wasn't as good as before. Same for the TV which generally gets first class reception.
Soo, I disconnected the 2160 and will try an indoor antenna to the 2160 and output via HDMI tomorrow when I get up and my arthritic fingers allow me to make the connections.
You have been questioning whether the 2160 has an amplified pass thru. Wonder if this indicates it does not.
Unless the antenna works I suppose I would keep the 2160 as a back up or use it with another TV but that's only a 15in analog Sony.
Stressed again stressbox
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post #1959 of 25743 Old 10-09-2008, 06:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pizzle1 View Post

wajo,
You have made this pretty easy for me as I was having a hard time getting good info on the Phillips system.
I just have to ask a question before I go and buy this because if I buy it and it doesn't do what I think it will do my wife will never let me hear the end of it.
I have an RV that is wayyyy out in the middle of no where and I can't get cable, can't use aerial antenna and because of the trees I can't use a dish.
My thought would be to record at home (I have Comcast at home) and then take the Phillips 3576 with me to my RV and hook it up to my TV there so I have TV. I can do this, right? Hope this isn't too stupid of a question but my thinking is this is the only way I am going to be able to watch TV.
Thanks, Jim

Keep you 3575 at home, keep it recording on hard disc while you are away from home. You can copy from hard disc to DVDs and take those DVDs with you on RV and play DVD on another player. You can hook up any other DVD player to your RV TV, leave your 3575 back at home still recording your favorite stuff on hard disk.
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post #1960 of 25743 Old 10-09-2008, 06:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stressbox View Post

wajo:
Fed Ex delivered the 2160 today. Hooked it up -- coax to 3576, to the 2160 and to TV. It is on HDMI 2 -- the TV has 4 HDMI connections.
What happened is the signal must be degraded--the 2160 reception wasn't good and even the 3576 , first in line wasn't as good as before. Same for the TV which generally gets first class reception.
Soo, I disconnected the 2160 and will try an indoor antenna to the 2160 and output via HDMI tomorrow when I get up and my arthritic fingers allow me to make the connections.
You have been questioning whether the 2160 has an amplified pass thru. Wonder if this indicates it does not.
Unless the antenna works I suppose I would keep the 2160 as a back up or use it with another TV but that's only a 15in analog Sony.
Stressed again stressbox

For RF amplification, you can get one of these http://www.amazon.com/Motorola-48409.../dp/B000066E6Y
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post #1961 of 25743 Old 10-09-2008, 08:18 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stressbox View Post

wajo:
Fed Ex delivered the 2160 today. Hooked it up -- coax to 3576, to the 2160 and to TV. It is on HDMI 2 -- the TV has 4 HDMI connections.
What happened is the signal must be degraded--the 2160 reception wasn't good and even the 3576 , first in line wasn't as good as before. Same for the TV which generally gets first class reception.
Soo, I disconnected the 2160 and will try an indoor antenna to the 2160 and output via HDMI tomorrow when I get up and my arthritic fingers allow me to make the connections.
You have been questioning whether the 2160 has an amplified pass thru. Wonder if this indicates it does not.
Unless the antenna works I suppose I would keep the 2160 as a back up or use it with another TV but that's only a 15in analog Sony.
Stressed again stressbox

Some things to try:
  1. Use different coax cables.
  2. Put 3576 2nd after the 2160 on the incoming coax.
  3. Reverse HDMI inputs or use HDMI-1 and HDMI-3 (my Vizio LCDs use HDMI-2 for DVI, apparently somewhat diff. than HDMI-1 or -3 on mine, one TV has auto-gamma correction I think).
  4. If still bad pic, separate 3576 and 2160 with a 2-way splitter, one coax output to each.
Try these if able and we'll see whasup!
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post #1962 of 25743 Old 10-09-2008, 08:34 AM - Thread Starter
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post #1963 of 25743 Old 10-09-2008, 09:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wajo View Post

Some things to try:
  1. Use different coax cables.
  2. Put 3576 2nd after the 2160 on the incoming coax.
  3. Reverse HDMI inputs or use HDMI-1 and HDMI-3 (my Vizio LCDs use HDMI-2 for DVI, apparently somewhat diff. than HDMI-1 or -3 on mine, one TV has auto-gamma correction I think).
  4. If still bad pic, separate 3576 and 2160 with a 2-way splitter, one coax output to each.


Try these if able and we'll see whasup!

stressbox

Also try these.

Direct Coax to TV. Check if you still are getting good reception on TV. If not then your problem is NOT in 3575 or 2160.

If reception is good then connect coax to 3575 and take coax from 3575 to TV. Keep 3575 powerd, but off (i.e. on standby) and see if TV tuner is giving you good reception.

If you are getting good reception then now connect coax to 3575, out coax from 3575 to i/p of 2160, out coax from 2160 and into your TV. Keep 3575 and 2160 powered up but off by remote (i.e. standby). Tune any channel on TV and see how is recption.

If reception is still good then report here and we will try to help you.

Also post your connection (HDMI etc) and (TV settings, contrast, etc) and 3575 setting (1080p etc, YCbCr ....) etc
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post #1964 of 25743 Old 10-09-2008, 10:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wajo View Post

This DVDR has an active (amplified) RF/coax passthru that is, internally, separate from the tuner. The coax in/out loop delivers and slightly amplifies whatever signal is fed in, including hi-def TV (HDTV) in its native form, directly to your TV and other downstream components, even when this DVDR is off.

I've owned a 3576 for several months now, but I've never used the RF out until recently. If anything, the signal seems weaker when I pass it through the 3576. I'm curious. Where did the information regarding the amplified passthrough originate? Is this based on observations, or has it actually been documented somewhere by Philips? I don't see any reference to this feature in the owner's manual, so I'm a little confused.
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post #1965 of 25743 Old 10-09-2008, 10:06 AM
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I just bought a refurbished unit off of eBay and was hoping for the best. I have Time Warner Cable and they're currently offering around 50 clear QAM digital stations. Unfortunately, my 3576 is losing its digital station memory. I ran the coax thru a series of splitters to degrade the signal quality (and tried the hanging by a thread test) and that really seemed to help with the digital stations. But doing that degraded the quality of the analog stations. I'm going to RMA it and hope I get a newer hardware version.

Here's what I have now:
Model name:____E2H40UD
DTV-S version:__0x90
FE Version:_____R40_026_000
BE Version:_____HD4P3374EH1E
TT Version:_____T4015RDU

Does the 0x93 fix the problem?
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post #1966 of 25743 Old 10-09-2008, 10:16 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick313 View Post

I've owned a 3576 for several months now, but I've never used the RF out until recently. If anything, the signal seems weaker when I pass it through the 3576. I'm curious. Where did the information regarding the amplified passthrough originate? Is this based on observations, or has it actually been documented somewhere by Philips? I don't see any reference to this feature in the owner's manual, so I'm a little confused.

Here's a post with link for more info on "active" (amp'd) passthru.

Here's just one post on a user's comparison of results.

The fact that your passthru signal appears to be weaker probably requires some testing to see if it's defective or maybe something else in your system. Can you describe the basic connection scheme and component positions in your system?
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post #1967 of 25743 Old 10-09-2008, 10:16 AM
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I had the same problem with the cable digital channels on my "0x90" 3576.

With my replacement "0x93" 3576, the cable digital channels are rock solid, but I am now getting false "copy-once" copy protection on the programs recorded from my local FOX and NBC stations.

I may be able to live with the false CP, but the disappearing digital channels had to go.

AFAIK, no one else has reported results on a 3576 with the 0x93 tuner. So, "upgrading" to a 0x93 tuner may have problems of its own.

RG
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post #1968 of 25743 Old 10-09-2008, 10:32 AM
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Originally Posted by wajo View Post

Here's a post with link for more info on "active" (amp'd) passthru.

Here's just one post on a user's comparison of results.

The fact that your passthru signal appears to be weaker probably requires some testing to see if it's defective or maybe something else in your system. Can you describe the basic connection scheme and component positions in your system?

Rick313, I experience good signal after pass thru. If I do not pass through my cable via 3575, I need to place a RF booster. Without 3575 and booster, my digital channels are good, but my SD channels have lot of moving slanting lines (they are more like waves or ripples). But when I put either 3575 or RF booster before my TV, SD channels clear up.

If your pass through signals are weak, then tighten the coax in 3575 as well as TV. Another thing which I have noticed is the kind of coax used. Earlier the middle wire of coax used to be thin. When this Data over coax came, companies started using coax which has thicker middle wire. Now if somebody has used one this thicker wire to connect two end points (TV and VCR/DVR), but later replaces with thin one, then the connection is not good. It is probably because the connector hole on device has become bigger. So make sure this is not the case. This usually happens if you have cable connecting directly to TV and then later you move cable to DVR and then connect DVR and TV via a supplied coax. This supplied cable (which comes with DVR, VCR etc) usually has thin middle wire. So if you have thin wire from 3575 to TV, then replace it with thicker one and see if that makes any difference.
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post #1969 of 25743 Old 10-09-2008, 10:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wajo View Post

The fact that your passthru signal appears to be weaker probably requires some testing to see if it's defective or maybe something else in your system.

Sounds like it's a matter of semantics. To me, less than 1 db loss is not the same as amplified which implies an increase in signal strength.

I have a couple of low power analog stations that are barely watchable, and since you have mentioned numerous times that the 3576 slightly amplifies the signal, I was hoping that it would perhaps increase the picture quality. Unfortunately, the picture quality was degraded slightly.

I just wanted to make sure that I wasn't missing something.
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post #1970 of 25743 Old 10-09-2008, 11:02 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick313 View Post

Sounds like it's a matter of semantics. To me, less than 1 db loss is not the same as amplified which implies an increase in signal strength.

I guess you misread the linked pages... the less than 1dB looss was in ref. to a PASSIVE (non-amp'd) passthru...as the test tech. says here:

"It absolutely depends on the vcr..... some units are "active" and are unity, if not a very slight gain, but the VCR must be plugged in to the AC power.... if the VCR is unplugged
from the AC power there is a fairly sizeable loss. some units are "passive" and the last time I measured was less than a 1 db loss.""
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post #1971 of 25743 Old 10-09-2008, 11:39 AM
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Originally Posted by rgazzara View Post

With my replacement "0x93" 3576, the cable digital channels are rock solid, but I am now getting false "copy-once" copy protection on the programs recorded from my local FOX and NBC stations.

Thanks. Did you RMA yours or exchange it locally? I'm thinking of putting a note inside mine asking they replace mine with a 0x93 version. I have no idea if that will do any good though...
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post #1972 of 25743 Old 10-09-2008, 12:08 PM
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video guy and wajo,
Have used my 3576 for several weeks now with no reception problems, either TV or 3576 except the 3576 is erratic in "holding" the digital channels -- they are not always there.
I just got the 2160 and connected it coax to the 3576 and coax from ant out to the ant in of the 2160 then coax out to the TV. That's where the 2160 and the TV pictures degrade. I also tried an antenna to the 2160 and HDMI out to the TV HDMI but the signal isn't good.
I do have a splitter so I thought I would connect it to the coax and one leg each to the DVR ant in terminals. I would run a coax from the ant out of the 3576 to the ANT in of the TV as it is now and 3576 to HDMI 1 and 2160 to HDMI 2. Haven't been able to see a DVI connection on the TV which is a Mitsubishi 46LN149 the manual for which is on Mitsu's website.
stressbox
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post #1973 of 25743 Old 10-09-2008, 12:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NixNick View Post

Thanks. Did you RMA yours or exchange it locally? I'm thinking of putting a note inside mine asking they replace mine with a 0x93 version. I have no idea if that will do any good though...

I purchased the 3576 at Sam's Club, and so that is where I returned it.

The first had a May, 19 (IIRC), and so did the second. It seems strange that the second had a different tuner with the same build date, but this is China after all...

Go ahead and ask for the 0x93 tuner, you have nothing to lose. If you get one, though, you may find it has copy protection issues. Do you have any now?

RG
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post #1974 of 25743 Old 10-09-2008, 12:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rgazzara View Post

(...) The first had a May, 19 (IIRC), and so did the second. It seems strange that the second had a different tuner with the same build date, but this is China after all...

I'd bet the dates on the boxes are the Packing Date,
rather than the Date of Manufacture.
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post #1975 of 25743 Old 10-09-2008, 12:57 PM
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I'd bet the dates on the boxes are the Packing Date,
rather than the Date of Manufacture.

Could be, although I thought it said build date, but again, China...

RG
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post #1976 of 25743 Old 10-09-2008, 01:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick313 View Post

Sounds like it's a matter of semantics. To me, less than 1 db loss is not the same as amplified which implies an increase in signal strength.

I have a couple of low power analog stations that are barely watchable, and since you have mentioned numerous times that the 3576 slightly amplifies the signal, I was hoping that it would perhaps increase the picture quality. Unfortunately, the picture quality was degraded slightly.

I just wanted to make sure that I wasn't missing something.

My experience is along the lines of yours with both my DVDR3575 and my DVDR3576. Because of shadowing by Mt Tom, KBDI-DT is not easy to get in Louisville. KRMA-DT is also tough for many of us a few degrees east of due north of the transmitter.
I have tried a passive splitter feeding the TV and recorder or the the TV fed from the RF out of the recorder without a splitter. With both of my recorders, and both of my TVs I have gotten better results on the TVs using the splitter. I did the tests under conditions when there was noticable break-up.

The digital tuners of the recorders do seem to be more sensitive than the digital tuners in my TVs. The reverse seems to be true for analog.
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post #1977 of 25743 Old 10-09-2008, 03:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by video_guy View Post

Keep you 3575 at home, keep it recording on hard disc while you are away from home. You can copy from hard disc to DVDs and take those DVDs with you on RV and play DVD on another player. You can hook up any other DVD player to your RV TV, leave your 3575 back at home still recording your favorite stuff on hard disk.


Thanks for the input. Because I am new to all of this, how many hours can you copy onto a DVD?
I am about to buy the 3576 through Home Depot (online). Wife has some coupons for Home Depot and it brings the cost down a bunch.
Thanks again.
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post #1978 of 25743 Old 10-09-2008, 04:33 PM
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Originally Posted by rgazzara View Post

Go ahead and ask for the 0x93 tuner, you have nothing to lose. If you get one, though, you may find it has copy protection issues. Do you have any now?

I haven't used the recording features at all yet. I just hooked it up yesterday. I didn't get to play with it much because it kept losing its channel memory and rescanning the channels takes forever.

Oddly, I've been doing a fair amount of channel surfing today and it hasn't lost its memory at all today. I have gotten a few blue screens that I fixed with the DTV/TV button on the remote but no memory loss. At this point I'm not sure whether it's worth the hassle of returning it. Yesterday it lost its memory 3 times over a 2-3 hour period. Today it hasn't happened once. Has anyone had this problem go away and not come back?

I haven't studied this thread enough yet to understand what you're talking about regarding the copy protection issues. Is that a problem only when you want to write to a DVD? I don't plan to do that often. I'm mostly going to use this for time-shifting.
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post #1979 of 25743 Old 10-09-2008, 04:49 PM
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Originally Posted by NixNick View Post

(...) Oddly, I've been doing a fair amount of channel surfing today and it hasn't lost its memory at all today. I have gotten a few blue screens that I fixed with the DTV/TV button on the remote but no memory loss. At this point I'm not sure whether it's worth the hassle of returning it. Yesterday it lost its memory 3 times over a 2-3 hour period. Today it hasn't happened once. Has anyone had this problem go away and not come back?(...)

If you have the auto set feature on for the clock,
it might lose its memory at 11:59 or 23:59 when it
powers up briefely to set the clock.
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post #1980 of 25743 Old 10-09-2008, 06:19 PM
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Originally Posted by NixNick View Post

I haven't used the recording features at all yet. I just hooked it up yesterday. I didn't get to play with it much because it kept losing its channel memory and rescanning the channels takes forever.

Oddly, I've been doing a fair amount of channel surfing today and it hasn't lost its memory at all today. I have gotten a few blue screens that I fixed with the DTV/TV button on the remote but no memory loss. At this point I'm not sure whether it's worth the hassle of returning it. Yesterday it lost its memory 3 times over a 2-3 hour period. Today it hasn't happened once. Has anyone had this problem go away and not come back?

I haven't studied this thread enough yet to understand what you're talking about regarding the copy protection issues. Is that a problem only when you want to write to a DVD? I don't plan to do that often. I'm mostly going to use this for time-shifting.

My problem with my 3576 with the 0x90 tuner wasn't that I lost the entire channel memory, but that I got the blue screen when changing channels. I also could get the channel back by doing the digital-analog-digital switch, but the problem was that this "blue screen" would happen occasionally at the beginning of a timer recording -- meaning that the program was not recorded. This was unacceptable to me, of course, and so I returned it to Sam's Club.

If I were you, I'd get it replaced.

Yes, the copy protection is "copy once", which means that you cannot dub to DVD.

RG
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