Magnavox 557, 537, 535, 533, 515, 513, 2160A, 2160, 2080 & Philips 3576, 3575 - Page 860 - AVS Forum
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post #25771 of 25980 Old 08-04-2014, 01:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Kelson View Post
WMC is recording the broadcast digital transport stream which means the recording is identical to the quality of the HiDef broadcast since it is just spooling all the bits as they come in.
That may be the theory, but it's definitely not my observation WRT the Iview. I've often simultaneously recorded both WFLA and NBC's feeds to its affiliates. Transport stream files made from NBC's satellite feeds average about 167% of the size of Iview .mts files from WFLA HD. Plus, there's a lot of black time from satellite where the locals insert their commercials, which means smaller sizes than if continuous normal video and audio.

It could be that the difference in my case is long distance to transmitter, about 57 miles, which could mean a lot of lost bits. I suspect everyone in less than optimal reception areas is receiving less than what's being transmitted. WFLA is on average my most poorly received OTA signal. It's also the lowest frequency, but the only network from which I more than rarely record both sources.

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post #25772 of 25980 Old 08-04-2014, 02:16 PM
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Originally Posted by mrmazda View Post
That may be the theory, but it's definitely not my observation WRT the Iview. I've often simultaneously recorded both WFLA and NBC's feeds to its affiliates. Transport stream files made from NBC's satellite feeds average about 167% of the size of Iview .mts files from WFLA HD. Plus, there's a lot of black time from satellite where the locals insert their commercials, which means smaller sizes than if continuous normal video and audio.

It could be that the difference in my case is long distance to transmitter, about 57 miles, which could mean a lot of lost bits. I suspect everyone in less than optimal reception areas is receiving less than what's being transmitted. WFLA is on average my most poorly received OTA signal. It's also the lowest frequency, but the only network from which I more than rarely record both sources.
OK so let's cut to the chase. TWC gives me unscrambled FX in analog. In 2010 I record an Archer episode in EP mode, 325MB after editing. In 2014 I watch it while guzzling a Yuengling Porter and scarfing down a meatball sub. Archer makes a fool of himself but still somehow emerges the hero and Lana against all better judgement ends up in bed with him again. How much would HD add to this viewing experience? I mean come on, is Casablanca not worth watching because HD wasn't around in1942?

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post #25773 of 25980 Old 08-04-2014, 02:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by cc_in_oh View Post
ok so let's cut to the chase. Twc gives me unscrambled fx in analog. In 2010 i record an archer episode in ep mode, 325mb after editing. In 2014 i watch it while guzzling a yuengling porter and scarfing down a meatball sub. Archer makes a fool of himself but still somehow emerges the hero and lana against all better judgement ends up in bed with him again. How much would hd add to this viewing experience? I mean come on, is casablanca not worth watching because hd wasn't around in1942?
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post #25774 of 25980 Old 08-04-2014, 02:29 PM
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How much would HD add to this viewing experience? I mean come on, is Casablanca not worth watching because HD wasn't around in1942?
How big is your TV?
How far away from it do you sit?
How good are your eyes?

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post #25775 of 25980 Old 08-04-2014, 03:22 PM
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How big is your TV?
How far away from it do you sit?
How good are your eyes?
52" Sharp Aquos LCD (not LED) circa early 2009; 21x21 family room? Please tell me you're not implying that enjoyment of a recording of an analog animated series would be significantly enhanced if the file size was 2GB? You can throw all the money you want at it but there's only so much you can do with analog...

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post #25776 of 25980 Old 08-04-2014, 04:37 PM
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Originally Posted by cc_in_oh View Post
I mean come on, is Casablanca not worth watching because HD wasn't around in1942?
Casablanca is available on BluRay.

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post #25777 of 25980 Old 08-04-2014, 06:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Kelson View Post
Casablanca is available on BluRay.
I've heard they've had great success restoring some of the B&W classics to BD. I'm not sure I would buy, say, Duck Soup just for the "experience" of seeing it in HD, but I'm sure many people will. Even if I did, I would just watch the disk, though I suppose I might also rip it for backup.

The point is that for recording purposes I have very little HD content available, mostly just OTA broadcasts contaminated with ad banners, news crawls (election results are a killer), weather alert break-ins etc. Crazy as it may sound, I'd rather watch the same show recorded in SD from the network website without all that extraneous garbage.

I would say that hour for hour, 3/4 of what I record and 7/8 of what I actually watch is cable, which I can only get in analog. So there's just not much payback there...

Of the 20-ish new 2014 network shows I recorded (i.e. ones I could have recorded OTA in HD), 12-ish have already been canceled. Of the "survivors" we've actually started watching 2, Blacklist and Sleepy Hollow. If we get desperate enough we might watch one or 2 of the others, but with unwatched cable shows like The Americans and Hell on Wheels, and Amazon VOD like Deadwood and Six Feet Under those network shows will be on the back burner for a while...

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post #25778 of 25980 Old 08-04-2014, 07:05 PM
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Originally Posted by cc_in_oh View Post
... is Casablanca not worth watching because HD wasn't around in1942?
You really don't understand any of this.

Analog TV was never able to display the true picture quality of filmed material.

Why do you think it's possible to take, for example, the 1960s Star Trek series and release it in HD on discs (Blu-ray)? Because all the visual information needed to create an HD recording was already there on the film. Old SD television and DVDs never truly showed us the picture that was there. It'd been down-rezzed the whole time.

HD television and discs can show the true picture quality that was on the film all along.

You would do well to check out this link-
http://www.amazon.com/Casablanca-70t...blanca+blu-ray
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post #25779 of 25980 Old 08-05-2014, 09:54 AM
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Not that it should affect anybody's personal preferences, but--

My education in pre-1950s film came first from TV broadcasts, 1950-62, and then from old (mostly 16mm) prints shown by the campus film programs in the 60s and 70s. So when I finally saw a clean 35mm print of Horse Feathers (in a theatre in Paris, with French subtitles), I was knocked out by how good it looked. (So was the audience of hip young Parisians.) With the Marx Brothers, 99% of what I care about is there in even a mediocre TV-SD version, but for Kurosawa or Bergman or Fellini (let alone Peckinpah or Kubrick), my ideal would be as close to the original-format image density as I could get. Though I don't see myself ever seeing them at the original theatrical size (which would be optimal), barring access to a big-town revival house. (Which never seem to be financially successful, even in a movie town like Minneapolis.)
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post #25780 of 25980 Old 08-05-2014, 09:57 AM
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Originally Posted by cc_in_oh View Post

The point is that for recording purposes I have very little HD content available, mostly just OTA broadcasts contaminated with ad banners, news crawls (election results are a killer), weather alert break-ins etc. Crazy as it may sound, I'd rather watch the same show recorded in SD from the network website without all that extraneous garbage.

.
It may be crazy but so would I! If, for some reason, I can't record or watch local network shows on dish, maybe a storm, I will record OTA to my DVDR and watch it in SD rather than live in HD and get subjected to ads.

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post #25781 of 25980 Old 08-05-2014, 12:26 PM
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Originally Posted by gastrof View Post
You really don't understand any of this.

Analog TV was never able to display the true picture quality of filmed material.

Why do you think it's possible to take, for example, the 1960s Star Trek series and release it in HD on discs (Blu-ray)? Because all the visual information needed to create an HD recording was already there on the film. Old SD television and DVDs never truly showed us the picture that was there. It'd been down-rezzed the whole time.

HD television and discs can show the true picture quality that was on the film all along.

You would do well to check out this link-
http://www.amazon.com/Casablanca-70t...blanca+blu-ray
IIUC Casablanca used Kodak 1302 fine grain film for its release prints. I guess to a certain extent fine grain film was wanted for better sound printing fidelity, but I couldn't find anything on the theoretical digital resolution that could be obtained from this particular film type. Then there is also a question of the contrast/gamma but that's a separate issue.

Regardless, I wouldn't surprised if there wasn't much more picture information in this era film than in modern television which is optimized for transmission rather than display.

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post #25782 of 25980 Old 08-05-2014, 09:54 PM
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Originally Posted by scott967 View Post
IIUC Casablanca used Kodak 1302 fine grain film for its release prints...

Regardless, I wouldn't surprised if there wasn't much more picture information in this era film than in modern television which is optimized for transmission rather than display.

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Feel free to tell us what point you're trying to make here.
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post #25783 of 25980 Old 08-06-2014, 09:30 PM
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I think the point is that any modern era 35mm film stock has much more detail than could ever by transmitted by NTSC, even more than could be transmitted by ATSC.

For instance, the best way to view a 35mm slide is through a high quality projector. If you transfer that slide to video, even ATSC, it loses detail. So, the best way to view a movie is in a theater with high quality projection. Next would be ATSC, with NTSC far in the rear.

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post #25784 of 25980 Old 08-07-2014, 09:54 AM
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Tuner issue with 533

I have a 533 that the OTA tuner stopped working. The issue started several months ago. At first the unit would rescan for channels each time in turned it on. Now when I turn it on it acts like it is going to scan for channels but nothing happens, it just hangs. I done a soft and hard reset, but the problem is still there.

Any suggestions on how to fix it or will in need to buy another unit?
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post #25785 of 25980 Old 08-07-2014, 04:17 PM
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I think the point is that any modern era 35mm film stock has much more detail than could ever by transmitted by NTSC, even more than could be transmitted by ATSC.

For instance, the best way to view a 35mm slide is through a high quality projector. If you transfer that slide to video, even ATSC, it loses detail. So, the best way to view a movie is in a theater with high quality projection. Next would be ATSC, with NTSC far in the rear.
If I remember correctly, 80+ % of the movies theaters in the US are now digital, no more film
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post #25786 of 25980 Old 08-07-2014, 04:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Lztaas View Post
I have a 533 that the OTA tuner stopped working. The issue started several months ago. At first the unit would rescan for channels each time in turned it on. Now when I turn it on it acts like it is going to scan for channels but nothing happens, it just hangs. I done a soft and hard reset, but the problem is still there.

Any suggestions on how to fix it or will in need to buy another unit?
Have you been turning it off by interrupting the power source and turning it on by restoring the power source?

If so, this machine is probably trashed.

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post #25787 of 25980 Old 08-07-2014, 04:57 PM
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If I remember correctly, 80+ % of the movies theaters in the US are now digital, no more film
The theater projectors are digital but I believe most of the masters are still shot in film. A number of movies have been shot with digital cameras but it is still a developing area.

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post #25788 of 25980 Old 08-07-2014, 05:09 PM
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The theater projectors are digital but I believe most of the masters are still shot in film. A number of movies have been shot with digital cameras but it is still a developing area.
Same article said almost all movies are shot digital and distributed to the theaters via either the internet or on hard drives. Making and shipping film is just too expensive. Movies are 24fps because years ago film stock was so expensive that 24fps used less film and was as low as they could get by without a lot of noticeable glitter. At the theater they are shown at 72fps by repeating each frame 3 times, this was true even with film projectors.
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post #25789 of 25980 Old 08-07-2014, 05:13 PM
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All are shot at least 4K, but more and more are shot at 8k
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post #25790 of 25980 Old 08-07-2014, 05:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lztaas View Post
I have a 533 that the OTA tuner stopped working. The issue started several months ago. At first the unit would rescan for channels each time in turned it on. Now when I turn it on it acts like it is going to scan for channels but nothing happens, it just hangs. I done a soft and hard reset, but the problem is still there.

Any suggestions on how to fix it or will in need to buy another unit?
As DIgaDo suggested, make sure you're keeping it powered at all times, even when off... no power strips with on/off switch.

Check your Display > OSD Language menu and make sure it's set on English.

Then, check all your other settings, especially clock.and make sure the machine is fully set up.
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post #25791 of 25980 Old 08-07-2014, 06:06 PM
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If I remember correctly, 80+ % of the movies theaters in the US are now digital, no more film
Yes but they are not at ATSC which doesn't have nearly the resolution or quality of film.
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post #25792 of 25980 Old 08-07-2014, 06:35 PM
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Yes but they are not at ATSC which doesn't have nearly the resolution or quality of film.
I was trying to simply point out that your usage of the word "film" is no longer meaningful. Similar to the way people "tape" shows on their DVR instead of saying "record"

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post #25793 of 25980 Old 08-07-2014, 06:52 PM
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I was trying to simply point out that your usage of the word "film" is no longer meaningful. Similar to the way people "tape" shows on their DVR instead of saying "record"
<br />
<br />
I understand, but in this case I was trying to be very specific. What I meant when I said film, I meant 35 millimeter film, because I thought that's what we were comparing to video. No worries, thanks for pointing that out.
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post #25794 of 25980 Old 08-08-2014, 06:23 AM
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Same article said almost all movies are shot digital and distributed to the theaters via either the internet or on hard drives. Making and shipping film is just too expensive.
It's been a while since I looked into this and I see the balance has shifted as you have noted. The shift to digital image capture does seem to be driven by reduced production costs vs. film, rather than improved aesthetic value.

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post #25795 of 25980 Old 08-08-2014, 08:29 AM
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The shift to digital image capture does seem to be driven by reduced production costs vs. film, rather than improved aesthetic value.

Yep, it's always about the money and what benefits the studio. If you haven't caught it yet, check out the 2012 documentary "Side By Side" on NetFlix, produced by Keanu Reeves (of all people). For those interested in Hollywood's rocky transition from film to digital, this doc is a must-see. Keanu interviews many key figures of the past and present, and lets them speak their piece. It also manages the neat trick of seeming completely neutral on the subject, while allowing adherents of either view to feel they "won" the debate.

The flip side of the money element is how Hollywood always finds a way to nullify any cost savings they develop. Despite massive core savings with digital production, the average movie still costs $100 mill and the blockbusters notch closer to $250 mill. Its true digital has given a huge boost to independent and low-budget filmmakers, which has its pluses and minuses (you thought the '90s indie scene was tedious? todays is often worse).

"Side By Side" also touches on less-obvious impacts of the digital revolution: the way ease-of-production has led to an overall sloppy trend in motion media, dulling as much creativity as it encourages. Digital f/x have homogenized to the point every blockbuster looks exactly the same (because every movie now hires lowest-bid f/x techs that go bankrupt during production). The ease of digital tampering and reliance on young cheap computer labor has led to copycat trends in color grading, which destroys any on-set attempts at a distinct "look" (see this essay for examples).

Film production was expensive and required a team of specialists to collaborate successfully: these teams bounced off each other to enhance different elements of the work, and one or two could often step up to steer a project that was going off the rails. Not so with digital: so many aspects of it seem "easy" that the teams no longer respect each other, and a single producer can more easily dictate a trainwreck.

Six of one, half dozen of the other: interesting times...

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Casablanca is available on BluRay.

And you'd be amazed how many times that's the source now for revival showings. Its become a game in NYC to wait past the end credits of any revival film showing to see if the BluRay disc menu pops up on the 30' screen. It does way more often than you'd expect.

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post #25796 of 25980 Old 08-14-2014, 07:27 AM
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I have some general questions. With the Magnavox MDR53x or MDR557 series of machines, I am wondering how to set them up correctly if they are always a slave to a cable box. (All the cable channels are scrambled)


I am assuming this is how one should set it up:


1. have the coax first to the cable box>Magnavox>TV
2. have composite cables from the cable box to back of Magnavox (L1 for example)
3. have HDMI or other cables from Magnavox to TV
4. do NOT scan for channels on the Magnavox
5. the Magnavox should always be set on analog channel 3 (or should it be L1)
6. to set up Timer Programming on the Magnavox, on its menu the channel should always be L1
7. the cable box would have to be on and tuned at that time to the channel you wish to record


Are these setup procedures correct or am I missing something???
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post #25797 of 25980 Old 08-14-2014, 08:34 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by mwg1 View Post
I have some general questions. With the Magnavox MDR53x or MDR557 series of machines, I am wondering how to set them up correctly if they are always a slave to a cable box. (All the cable channels are scrambled)

I am assuming this is how one should set it up:

1. have the coax first to the cable box>Magnavox>TV
2. have composite cables from the cable box to back of Magnavox (L1 for example)
3. have HDMI or other cables from Magnavox to TV
4. do NOT scan for channels on the Magnavox
5. the Magnavox should always be set on analog channel 3 (or should it be L1)
6. to set up Timer Programming on the Magnavox, on its menu the channel should always be L1
7. the cable box would have to be on and tuned at that time to the channel you wish to record

Are these setup procedures correct or am I missing something???
All are correct, including no need to scan for channels as long as the box has YWR RCA output you can connect to the Mag. The Mag's line inputs (L1, L2 etc.) are the ones you'd set for manual or timer recordings from the box, and they don't need channels scanned in to work. The cable box will have to be on and set for the channel you want to record.

If possible in your area, I'd recommend you also try at least an indoor antenna (Mohu Leaf Ultimate works great here) so you have the option of recording the major networks, ION and other broadcast channels in addition to the scrambled cable channels... obviously needing an Auto Channel Preset > Antenna if you try that option.
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post #25798 of 25980 Old 08-14-2014, 09:13 AM
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Quote:
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1. have the coax first to the cable box>Magnavox>TV
All are correct
What point is there to have RF cable from cablebox to Mag when all recording will be the higher quality coming in on e.g. L1? Might as well leave it off, in case there needs to be 2-way between cable box and head end, plus as you say, put some kind of antenna on the Mag's antenna RF in to provide OTA channels directly tuned by Mag, and also by TV. With all channels scrambled, I don't see a point in having cable RF going anywhere but the cablebox.

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post #25799 of 25980 Old 08-14-2014, 11:03 AM - Thread Starter
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What point is there to have RF cable from cablebox to Mag when all recording will be the higher quality coming in on e.g. L1? Might as well leave it off, in case there needs to be 2-way between cable box and head end, plus as you say, put some kind of antenna on the Mag's antenna RF in to provide OTA channels directly tuned by Mag, and also by TV. With all channels scrambled, I don't see a point in having cable RF going anywhere but the cablebox.
In theory, he probably won't need the coax but, if it were my box/system, I'd try both coax and YWR RCA for recording and compare the difference, then decide which to use. With cablecos, odds are the coax output from their box is not as good as YWR RCA, but it's always best to TEST AND VERIFY.

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post #25800 of 25980 Old 08-14-2014, 02:04 PM
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With cablecos, odds are the coax output from their box is not as good as YWR RCA, but it's always best to TEST AND VERIFY.
If testing proves RF better, get the cableco to replace the box with a competent one. I doubt there is such a thing as a cable box putting the unscrambled audio and video on RF out that includes the sound in stereo.

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