Magnavox 557, 537, 535, 533, 515, 513, 2160A, 2160, 2080 & Philips 3576, 3575 - Page 862 - AVS Forum
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post #25831 of 25859 Old 08-24-2014, 01:13 PM
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Nobody answered my question yesterday on the length of a manual recording.

Well, I found out.

It's still 12 hours, like a manual recording.

I managed to get my other machine running just before the first one hit 12:00, and so I do have the full episode I was recording at that moment. (Gonna have to use my computer and do some splicing to make the two recordings one, but at least I got it all.)

So, for the record, for anyone else who'll need to know one day, there is a limit on the length of a recording...if the manuals don't say so.
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post #25832 of 25859 Old 08-24-2014, 01:21 PM - Thread Starter
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For others who don't mind reading the help files, max. rec time of 12 hours is mentioned three times in the main Recording help file.
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post #25833 of 25859 Old 08-25-2014, 03:31 AM
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Originally Posted by BIGA$$TV View Post
You have an odd setup that doesn't allow you to see HD on your 65" TV (unless you failed to mention that you have the STB also connected to the TV). Why not do what the message says? Connect the STB via HDMI to the TV (that way you get HD) and then connect the 513 to the STB via composite cables and then the 513 to the TV via HDMI. Then you can toggle the TV input to either the 513 or the cable box.

The only fly in the ointment would be if your set top box doesn't output both HDMI and composite at the same time. If not, then maybe connect the STB to the TV via component cables (still gets you HD).

rewiring my connections is really not an option. I have another dual tuner DVR in the mix as well and the way I have it connected has suited our needs for a while now.


What I am trying to figure out first is where the error message is coming from?


During an hour recording on the 513 the other night, the recording was fine for about the first 20 minutes, then the error message appeared for about 10 minutes, then it wen back to being viewable?


Is this message coming from the 513? Or is this coming from my cablebox?


Is this something that would go away if I upgraded to a newer unit?
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post #25834 of 25859 Old 08-25-2014, 07:46 AM
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Originally Posted by BIGA$$TV View Post
You have an odd setup that doesn't allow you to see HD on your 65" TV (unless you failed to mention that you have the STB also connected to the TV). Why not do what the message says? Connect the STB via HDMI to the TV (that way you get HD) and then connect the 513 to the STB via composite cables and then the 513 to the TV via HDMI. Then you can toggle the TV input to either the 513 or the cable box.

The only fly in the ointment would be if your set top box doesn't output both HDMI and composite at the same time. If not, then maybe connect the STB to the TV via component cables (still gets you HD).

Not sure I understand what the STB is here? Please be patient with me as I get up to speed with your terminology.


The 513 is connected to the TV via HDMI.


The Cablebox is also connected to the TV via HDMI.


The only thing not connected via HDMI is the output of the Cablebox to the 513. The reason for this is because there is no input to the 513 for HDMI or composite. If there was, then I have an HDMI splitter which would give me HDMI input to the 513. Make sense?


I appreciate your help, but really need to know where this error message is coming from, them I know which box is the PITA! :-)


Bruce
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post #25835 of 25859 Old 08-25-2014, 10:23 AM
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"The only thing not connected via HDMI is the output of the Cablebox to the 513. The reason for this is because there is no input to the 513 for HDMI or composite. If there was, then I have an HDMI splitter which would give me HDMI input to the 513. Make sense?"

I am presuming you meant no component (red, green yellow) inputs to the 513. It definitely has composite inputs.

I really don't know why you are having problems, but I think a probable solution is to use a composite connection (red and white audio and yellow video) from your cable box to the 513. You should have these cables around since I believe they came with the 513 as they came with my 515.

(STB = set top box = cable box)
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post #25836 of 25859 Old 08-25-2014, 10:36 AM
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Originally Posted by BIGA$$TV View Post
"The only thing not connected via HDMI is the output of the Cablebox to the 513. The reason for this is because there is no input to the 513 for HDMI or composite. If there was, then I have an HDMI splitter which would give me HDMI input to the 513. Make sense?"

I am presuming you meant no component (red, green yellow) inputs to the 513. It definitely has composite inputs.

I really don't know why you are having problems, but I think a probable solution is to use a composite connection (red and white audio and yellow video) from your cable box to the 513. You should have these cables around since I believe they came with the 513 as they came with my 515.

(STB = set top box = cable box)

AHHH! STB, OK!


I have tried the composite (red/white audio, yellow video) with no luck. This is why I stayed with the RF Coax connection, figured neither the STB nor the 513 would have any cables plugged in so the "HDTV not compatible with HDCP" error message would come up, but still does. For a while when I was trying the composite connection, error message all the time, at least now it is intermittent.


Any idea if this message is coming from the 513 or the STB?
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post #25837 of 25859 Old 08-25-2014, 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by BAS-Sr View Post
Any idea if this message is coming from the 513 or the STB?
You need to divide and conquer in order to trouble shoot.
If it were me I would suspect the HDMI connection between the HDTV and the Magnavox -- meaning only that I would test that hypothesis first. Rewire the Magnavox/HDTV connection so you are using either the component out or the composite out from the Magnavox to the HDTV. If that eliminates the HDMI/HDCP error message you have your answer.

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post #25838 of 25859 Old 08-25-2014, 11:57 AM
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Originally Posted by BAS-Sr View Post
AHHH! STB, OK!


I have tried the composite (red/white audio, yellow video) with no luck. This is why I stayed with the RF Coax connection, figured neither the STB nor the 513 would have any cables plugged in so the "HDTV not compatible with HDCP" error message would come up, but still does. For a while when I was trying the composite connection, error message all the time, at least now it is intermittent.


Any idea if this message is coming from the 513 or the STB?
I hope someone else steps in here because I don't know much about this stuff. I thought that the HDCP was only a problem with HD signals. not signals coming through composite. Just a wild stab here, but could the message be coming from your TV?

whoops, I posted this before I saw Kelson's reply and it looks like I might have made a lucky guess!
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post #25839 of 25859 Old 08-25-2014, 12:16 PM
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You could clone it yourself, as LDM implied. Mechanically speaking, all you need is a PC you can attach a couple of extra HDs to, either to internal SATA ports, eSATA ports, or USB ports. Externally of course requires one or more relatively cheap external devices to house the HDs.
...
.
Since I almost always leave the Maggie on L3 when I'm not actually recording, I suspect the noise is coming from the hard drive. At any rate, I'm terrified of turning it on for fear that the drive will completely go.

I shall be getting a new custom-made computer in December. You've just given me an idea for some add-ons I should request. I know the new computer will come with one solid state drive and one regular (SATA) slave drive, as well as five USB ports. And I already have a Seagate 500 gig external drive that uses a USB port. Perhaps you could instruct me as to what exactly extra I will need and how to proceed?

Thanks in advance,

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post #25840 of 25859 Old 08-25-2014, 01:18 PM
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Well, I am sure it is not coming form the TV.


I was recording very successfully for more than a year without any issues but recently the cable provider started doing some application updates to their STB's, so I assume here that something changed there. Now what is puzzling is why something (Magnavox 513 or Cablebox/STB) is seeing something in the HDTV signal that is being interpreted as not HDCP compatible since the signal between the STB and the Magnavox 513 is via the RF COAX, not composite of HDMI.


Another aspect is that this is intermittent? :-(


I think the error message is actually coming from the Magnavox 513. Reason I say this is that the error message is only there during recording, not during regular viewing. If it was coming from the Cable STB, then I would see it when viewing as well, wouldn't I?


So what is in the Magnavox 513 that is setting this message?


I know my Magnavox 513 is an older model, would an upgrade to a newer model resolve this?
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post #25841 of 25859 Old 08-25-2014, 03:23 PM
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Originally Posted by BAS-Sr View Post
Well, I am sure it is not coming form the TV.


I was recording very successfully for more than a year without any issues but recently the cable provider started doing some application updates to their STB's, so I assume here that something changed there. Now what is puzzling is why something (Magnavox 513 or Cablebox/STB) is seeing something in the HDTV signal that is being interpreted as not HDCP compatible since the signal between the STB and the Magnavox 513 is via the RF COAX, not composite of HDMI.


Another aspect is that this is intermittent? :-(

I think the error message is actually coming from the Magnavox 513. Reason I say this is that the error message is only there during recording, not during regular viewing. If it was coming from the Cable STB, then I would see it when viewing as well, wouldn't I?


So what is in the Magnavox 513 that is setting this message?


I know my Magnavox 513 is an older model, would an upgrade to a newer model resolve this?
Follow Kelson's suggestion- connect the 513 to the TV via component cable or composite cables to see if the problem goes away.
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post #25842 of 25859 Old 08-25-2014, 04:01 PM
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Originally Posted by BAS-Sr View Post
I think the error message is actually coming from the Magnavox 513. Reason I say this is that the error message is only there during recording, not during regular viewing. If it was coming from the Cable STB, then I would see it when viewing as well, wouldn't I?
It might be the HDMI connection between the cable box and the TV. The cable box knows when a HDMI cable is plugged in and it expects to find a TV at the other end of the cable. If you turn the TV off it could be breaking the HDMI communication to the cable box, and the cable box is generating the error message and displaying it on all of the video outputs. You wouldn't see that message while viewing because the TV would be turned on.

Last edited by Ken.F; 08-25-2014 at 04:34 PM. Reason: Corrected and removed redunant repeating repetitive text.
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post #25843 of 25859 Old 08-25-2014, 04:09 PM
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It might be the HDMI connection between the cable box and the TV. The cable box knows when a HDMI cable is plugged in and it and it expects to find a TV at the other end of the cable. If you turn the TV off it could be breaking the HDMI communication to the cable box, and the cable box is generating the error message and displaying it on all of the video outputs. You wouldn't see that message while viewing because the TV would be turned on.
Valid hypothesis. He needs to divide an conquer -- rewire to isolate the subsystems and see which HDMI connection is causing the problem. Otherwise all we can do is guess and I think we've done that already.

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post #25844 of 25859 Old 08-25-2014, 04:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Trist View Post
Since I almost always leave the Maggie on L3 when I'm not actually recording, I suspect the noise is coming from the hard drive. At any rate, I'm terrified of turning it on for fear that the drive will completely go.
Does it make noise on L3? If it does then it's probably not the HDD.
You could do a quick test that only needs the recorder to be running for a few seconds. With the recorder turned off, insert a toothpick (or some other non-metallic object) through the fan cage and between the cooling fan blades to keep the fan from spinning, then the recorder on. If you still get the noise with the fan blocked shut it off right away. If you don't get the noise, release the fan and see if the noise comes back.
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post #25845 of 25859 Old 08-25-2014, 05:57 PM
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For others who don't mind reading the help files, max. rec time of 12 hours is mentioned three times in the main Recording help file.
There is a lot of info in all of this, Wajo. I don't know if anyone here recalls what all the help features say.
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post #25846 of 25859 Old 08-26-2014, 02:41 AM
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It might be the HDMI connection between the cable box and the TV. The cable box knows when a HDMI cable is plugged in and it expects to find a TV at the other end of the cable. If you turn the TV off it could be breaking the HDMI communication to the cable box, and the cable box is generating the error message and displaying it on all of the video outputs. You wouldn't see that message while viewing because the TV would be turned on.
Ken, very valid point. Never though of that, Thanks!


I will try to figure out a way to test that theory.
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post #25847 of 25859 Old 08-28-2014, 12:08 PM
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It might be the HDMI connection between the cable box and the TV. The cable box knows when a HDMI cable is plugged in and it expects to find a TV at the other end of the cable. If you turn the TV off it could be breaking the HDMI communication to the cable box, and the cable box is generating the error message and displaying it on all of the video outputs. You wouldn't see that message while viewing because the TV would be turned on.

Well Ken, looks like you hit the nail on the head! :-)


Last 2 nights I recorded shows off the STB/cablebox leaving my TV on and they recorded just fine! I did not leave this comment yesterday because I did not want to jinx it by speaking toooooo soon! But after 2 nights in a row, I feel pretty confident that is what the issue is.


What I did was to put the TV Sleep Timer on for about 30 past the show end time, put the volume on mute and went to bed!


Worked like a charm. That's a short term fix.


Now I need to figure out how I am going to get the cable box to see a signal so it does not put out an error message?


BTW, do the newer Magnavox units have an HDMI input? Mine does not. Just a yellow video red/white audio composite input. I would also LUV to find a unit that uses the TV Guide data feed, makes recording so much simpler and watching the shows easier since they have titles. I have a PHD dual tuner that I use on the broadcast channels (ABC/CBS/NBC/FOX), and that is a great little unit.
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post #25848 of 25859 Old 08-28-2014, 12:33 PM
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Now I need to figure out how I am going to get the cable box to see a signal so it does not put out an error message?
You could replace the HDMI cable with a set of component video cables. If you want to keep the HDMI cable put a HDMI Detective on it.
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post #25849 of 25859 Old 08-28-2014, 06:47 PM
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Now I need to figure out how I am going to get the cable box to see a signal so it does not put out an error message?
If you want to keep the HDMI cable put a HDMI Detective on it.
A different TV hooked up to the cable box's HDMI port and turned on should work. I'm guessing an HDMI splitter would do the job he needs without need for any third cable implied by the #2 output. On the opposite end of the cost scale, a Quick6 surely would do the job, plus a lot more.

I just discovered the latter yesterday, and the only thing that stopped me from ordering one then and there was to wait on the extra $50 off available by buying using Rakuten's Mastercard I just applied for yesterday.

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post #25850 of 25859 Old 08-28-2014, 08:04 PM
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I shall be getting a new custom-made computer in December. You've just given me an idea for some add-ons I should request. I know the new computer will come with one solid state drive and one regular (SATA) slave drive, as well as five USB ports. And I already have a Seagate 500 gig external drive that uses a USB port. Perhaps you could instruct me as to what exactly extra I will need and how to proceed?
Your new puter should be up to the task without adding any more built-in options by making use only of its USB ports. As you are paying someone to build it for you, options to take its cover off and use its internal ports are probably best left unaddressed.

With your new puter, the Seagate external is probably of no help, but could be, as there are multiple ways of skinning this cat. Which one to choose probably is best left until the time has come that you are ready to make the replacement.

Unless you can figure out how to put a different HD into your Seagate external in place of the one in there now, you will need at least one device to become a temporary home for the old 513 HD and/or the one that will replace it. Which specific devices could suffice will depend on your old HD's form factor. It could be 3.5", but it also could be 2.5". Many external HD adapters can handle either 2.5 or 3.5, as can the one linked to in my last reply to this sub-thread. Until you open the cover of your 513, you probably cannot be sure which it has, but I think the larger is more likely.

There are two basic options for performing the procedure:
1-direct from disk to disk
2-make a copy of the old disk as a file on the old, then copy that file onto the new disk

#1 requires availability of two devices to house a HD, while #2 makes do with only one, unless the external device is one of those designed for 2 disks at once. #2 means 320MB of space must be available on one filesystem for the file that needs to be made and copied. That could be on your existing Seagate external, or space on the new HD in the new puter.

What software is required depends on whether you'll be using Windows, Mac or Linux. If Windows, you may be able to use software that ships with the new HD you'll be putting into the 513. That software comes in HD retail packages, but may be available for download from the HD maker's site as well. Such software may also be provided for Mac users in like manner. Linux users need no special software - tools needed are available in any minimal or better Linux installation.

Detailed instructions for software use I can provide for Linux if and when necessary. Detailed instructions for other users will need to be provided or found otherwise.

There is a potential obstacle that hopefully might be addressed here between now and when your new puter is available for your use. New HDs made since early 2011 have a different internal structure than older HDs. Newer are all technically compatible with older puters. Because of this, they should be compatible with your 513. But, it's possible there could be a performance problem I can't recall seeing discussed here. That possible problem should be avoidable by buying your replacement HD from a Magnavox parts supplier by the part number specific to the 513.

Buying an ordinary HD from the places most of us buy our HD replacements, places like Staples, Best Buy, Newegg and MacConnection, which in all likelihood means a lower dollar outlay for the new HD, presents some possibility of a performance impediment that one or more of the more experienced puter users here could investigate if they haven't already. That investigation would involve cloning their own Mag HD to a new "advanced format" HD, installing it, then watching carefully to see if any performance deterioration may have occurred or be occurring using the new HD. I believe there is some significant possibility that the software in our machines assumes the old standard 512kb sector size, and as a consequence, could produce annoying, or worse, performance issue(s) that all here would want to avoid if and when HD replacement time comes.

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A different TV hooked up to the cable box's HDMI port and turned on should work. I'm guessing an HDMI splitter would do the job he needs without need for any third cable implied by the #2 output. On the opposite end of the cost scale, a Quick6 surely would do the job, plus a lot more.
Or just leave the existing TV turned on. Personally I would use this.
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post #25852 of 25859 Old Yesterday, 01:21 PM
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Or just leave the existing TV turned on. Personally I would use this.
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A different TV hooked up to the cable box's HDMI port and turned on should work. I'm guessing an HDMI splitter would do the job he needs without need for any third cable implied by the #2 output. On the opposite end of the cost scale, a Quick6 surely would do the job, plus a lot more.

I just discovered the latter yesterday, and the only thing that stopped me from ordering one then and there was to wait on the extra $50 off available by buying using Rakuten's Mastercard I just applied for yesterday.

I have an HDMI splitter, I'll try hooking that up and see if it makes any difference?
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post #25853 of 25859 Old Yesterday, 04:45 PM
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I have an HDMI splitter, I'll try hooking that up and see if it makes any difference?
If it's not a passive device I would expect yes.

Unless your TV has PIP, I don't know how Ken's leave the TV on method could provide the answer you want in real time like the other options should.

AFAIK, using component cables from the cable box instead of HDMI means you give up 1080 and 720, limiting your viewing experience from cable box to 480.

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post #25854 of 25859 Old Yesterday, 04:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Component RGB cables can carry 720 and 1080 analog interlaced and progressive signals.

Link to Blue Jeans cable article.

Last edited by wajo; Yesterday at 05:06 PM.
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post #25855 of 25859 Old Today, 03:26 AM
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If it's not a passive device I would expect yes.

Unless your TV has PIP, I don't know how Ken's leave the TV on method could provide the answer you want in real time like the other options should.

AFAIK, using component cables from the cable box instead of HDMI means you give up 1080 and 720, limiting your viewing experience from cable box to 480.
I think we got mixed up in answering two completely different issues.

My reply was about the cable box broadcasting a HDCP error message to the Magnavox recorder over the analog video outputs when the TV is turned off. The cable box is generating the error message when the TV is off because the HDMI connection between the cable box and TV is being broken.

In order to prevent the cable box from broadcasting the error message he needs to either:
1) Remove the HDMI cable between the cable box and the TV and replace it with component cables. Component cables work just fine with HD resolutions.

2) Provide a constant EDID signal to the cable box over the HDMI cable.

There are two ways to provide the EDID to the cable box over the HDMI cable:
a) Leave the TV turned on.
b) Use a device like the HDMI Detective that records the TV's EDID data and makes it available to the cable box even when the TV is turned off or disconnected.

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post #25856 of 25859 Old Today, 03:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Ken.F View Post
I think we got mixed up in answering two completely different issues.

My reply was about the cable box broadcasting a HDCP error message to the Magnavox recorder over the analog video outputs when the TV is turned off. The cable box is generating the error message when the TV is off because the HDMI connection between the cable box and TV is being broken.

There are two ways to provide the EDID to the cable box over the HDMI cable
...
b) Use a device like the HDMI Detective that records the TV's EDID data and makes it available to the cable box even when the TV is turned off or disconnected.


What I was saying is a non-passive device (like some HDMI splitters) ought to provide the same effect as the HDMI detective, as would the Quick6 - making the cable box think the TV is on, thus allowing OP to check for the absence of the HDCP message without needing the active TV input selection being the cable box, and without needing any component video cables.

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post #25857 of 25859 Old Today, 05:04 AM
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Originally Posted by mrmazda View Post


What I was saying is a non-passive device (like some HDMI splitters) ought to provide the same effect as the HDMI detective, as would the Quick6 - making the cable box think the TV is on, thus allowing OP to check for the absence of the HDCP message without needing the active TV input selection being the cable box, and without needing any component video cables.
Unless the splitter or Quick6 can record the EDID data like the HDMI Detective I don't think it would work.
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post #25858 of 25859 Old Today, 06:36 AM
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I believe there is some significant possibility that the software in our machines assumes the old standard 512kb sector size, and as a consequence, could produce annoying, or worse, performance issue(s) that all here would want to avoid if and when HD replacement time comes.
I have been using an advanced format drive in a HD recorder for a year and a half with no issues. Over time I have exercised all the combinations. Record two HD programs, playback a third. Record two and chase play one skipping commercials to catch up.

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post #25859 of 25859 Old Today, 09:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Ken.F View Post
Unless the splitter or Quick6 can record the EDID data like the HDMI Detective I don't think it would work.
You say "record", but I think simply buffering (caching) that data flow amounts to the same thing.

Did you even read the URI about the Quick6? I seriously doubt it could do what it claims to do without that kind of smarts. I can hardly resist the urge to order one, but that extra $50 off does seem to be strong enough to keep me waiting.

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post #25860 of 25859 Old Today, 10:01 AM
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I have been using an advanced format drive in a HD recorder for a year and a half with no issues. Over time I have exercised all the combinations. Record two HD programs, playback a third. Record two and chase play one skipping commercials to catch up.
While that experience is encouraging, "a HD recorder" is not our Funais, with their filesystemless software incepted 8 or more years ago. Does your "HD recorder" use a filesystem that might be familiar to PC users, such as NTFS or EXT2? When was it designed?

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