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DVD Recorders (Standard Def) > TVGOS Not Updating
HGN2001's Avatar HGN2001 12:10 PM 12-08-2008
My Sony Bravia XBR with TVGOS had that service stop working for about a week or so. I kept doing re-initializing of the TV and the service, but it kept saying that there was no program information on any channel.

I'm in the Philly broadcast area and when I checked the diagnostics, as detailed in this thread, it indicated that I had no host channel.

Now, suddenly yesterday, the TV Guide repopulated itself with data and it's working great. I checked the diagnostics again and this time it listed the host channel as 26-0, which should translate to our CBS3 digital channel I believe.

I'm hoping this is a good sign that the TV Guide data will continue on that digital channel now as we transition away from analog.

Harry

jjeff's Avatar jjeff 12:44 PM 12-08-2008
Yes your TV is capable of receiving the digital TVGOS and as you found out it's listed as the actual channel number, not the virtual number. CBS should be the correct channel for digital TVGOS although I suppose that could vary for markets without a CBS affiliate.
I remember reading a post from Wajo quite some time ago that said the TVGOS box was just something that TVGOS themselves maintained at the host channels location. Many times the local station didn't know anything about it while some only knew how to reboot it. IOW the TVGOS could be down and the local station might not even know about it unless someone called.
Hopefully if more devices start using digital TVGOS local stations will be more aware of problems and able to fix them. Here's hoping anyway
HGN2001's Avatar HGN2001 12:50 PM 12-08-2008
Thanks for that info Jeff. I'm glad that the new TV is OK. I hooked the thing up a few weeks ago and enjoyed playing with the TVGOS feature. Then the data suddenly disappeared.

I hope it was just a case of the old analog system shutting down and the newer digital version taking over.

Harry
Rammitinski's Avatar Rammitinski 01:10 PM 12-08-2008
On a side note: I'm now getting listings again on my Sony DHG-HDD500 DVR - but there's no host channel listed at all. Funny thing is, I'm currently using an indoor antenna which is not able to get me any CBS station at all (although it could very faintly be picking an analog UHF one up from another, further market - but it's somewhat low-powered, and the UHF element is pointed almost in the opposite direction. I suppose that's possible, because I am right now using a zipcode from that market - I had to use it in order to get the clock back, but I'm pretty sure that's from a stronger station, which is the one that always carried it before. The antenna is picking that one up well, even not being pointed at it. It's about 45 miles away in Rockford).
Lanceg's Avatar Lanceg 02:25 PM 12-08-2008
I'm certainly not imagining it that my EH55 is currently receiving analog TVGOS through the DirecTV 10-300 box. I have NEVER used it with an OTA antenna, and the only input I gave TVGOS setup is DirecTV. When our local ABC affiliate (KOAT in Albuquerque) ran a test where they temporarily removed their analog signal and broadcast only in digital, the DirecTV dish/box combo continued to receive, so apparently it could deal with a digital signal and pass along something currently viewable to my EH55 and TV (ancient Mitsubishi CS-2710R). I don't know what the DirecTV box does, though it has coax inputs for dish and OTA antenna, so I'd assume that it primarily is set up to receive analog input. I flat don't know what it does with digital input or exactly where in the chain the D to A would occur.
Westly-C's Avatar Westly-C 02:52 PM 12-08-2008
A Sat reset to the guide on my Panny E85H (with Comcast analog) resulted in no listings on Sun, so I did a second reset. As of this afternoon, the listings have returned. About 80% of the total 7 day program listings are present which is typical of a fresh download. Thur and Fri are mostly 'no listings', Sat and Sun are about half there...Everything should be full after one or two more downloads.

So as was mentioned up thread (by c10), the glitch appears to have been a temporary one, corrected by Monday.
kevin1020's Avatar kevin1020 07:09 AM 12-09-2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by c10 View Post

I got this in email today from the __http://tvgos.custhelp.com/ site :


Subject: WTTW Digital Transition Problem 60565:Wide Open West - Chicagoland - Chicago [Incident: 081123-000020]

Response (Peter) 12/05/2008 01:22 PM
There was a problem with WTTW. This should be resolved Monday. Please let us know if the listings come back Monday.

Well, it's Tuesday and I still don't have a host channel (and thus no listings). Anyone else?
HGN2001's Avatar HGN2001 08:24 AM 12-09-2008
And now today in Philly I'm getting the "No listings" message again! I'm guessing this is the way it's going to be for awhile - on again and off again. It's a good thing for me that I don't rely on this system!

Harry
rgazzara's Avatar rgazzara 08:41 AM 12-09-2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by HGN2001 View Post

And now today in Philly I'm getting the "No listings" message again! I'm guessing this is the way it's going to be for awhile - on again and off again. It's a good thing for me that I don't rely on this system!

Harry

Funny, I'm having no problem with TVGOS on Comcast cable in Bucks County in the Philly suburbs. Currently, WPVI ABC channel 6 is the host channel.

How are you receiving the TVGOS, and on which device?
djmike0408's Avatar djmike0408 09:24 AM 12-09-2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevin1020 View Post

Well, it's Tuesday and I still don't have a host channel (and thus no listings). Anyone else?

I have the Pioneer 531 DVR and here in Frederick, MD - still nothing at all (no Host Channel or listings). I've been down for at least 3 weeks and during this time I've tried all the resets a few times and nothing has helped. I've sent 2 emails now to MD Public TV to try and find out what they know about the problem, but I haven't received any response yet.

Side question ... many are staying that come FEB that our analog DVRs will not work anyway. I subscribe to Comcast Extended Basic cable and I have no cable boxes on any TVs in my house. I have 3 TVs that do not have HD tuners. My understanding is that come FEB Comcast will still transmit a signal that will work with my non-HD TVs with out a cable box. Is this correct? If so, why wouldn't the DVR still pick-up the TVGOS signal if it's being transmitted?
kevin1020's Avatar kevin1020 09:26 AM 12-09-2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by HGN2001 View Post

And now today in Philly I'm getting the "No listings" message again! I'm guessing this is the way it's going to be for awhile - on again and off again. It's a good thing for me that I don't rely on this system!

Harry

We (chicago land wide open west cable) have been consistantly OFF for over a month and I'm greatly missing it
wajo's Avatar wajo 09:44 AM 12-09-2008
KenH in this thread is saying everything will be OK soon, but I think he's taking about units with digital tuners only?

He's saying the TVGOS is in transition to CBS DTV and will soon be active on all CBS stations but not sure how or if that also applies to analog devices... maybe there's still hope?
rgazzara's Avatar rgazzara 11:32 AM 12-09-2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by djmike0408 View Post

Side question ... many are staying that come FEB that our analog DVRs will not work anyway. I subscribe to Comcast Extended Basic cable and I have no cable boxes on any TVs in my house. I have 3 TVs that do not have HD tuners. My understanding is that come FEB Comcast will still transmit a signal that will work with my non-HD TVs with out a cable box. Is this correct? If so, why wouldn't the DVR still pick-up the TVGOS signal if it's being transmitted?

Because the TVGOS EPG data is carried in the vertical blanking interval (VBI) portion of the analog video signal, which also carries closed captions.

Once the analog video signal goes away, so will the VBI and the TVGOS EPG data with it.

The only slim chance that we who have units with analog TVGOS have is that Macrovision will contract with cable systems to inject the EPG data into the VBI of the analog video signal that they may (or may not!) be providing to their subscribers...and I am not holding my breath...
djmike0408's Avatar djmike0408 12:33 PM 12-09-2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by rgazzara View Post

Because the TVGOS EPG data is carried in the vertical blanking interval (VBI) portion of the analog video signal, which also carries closed captions.

Once the analog video signal goes away, so will the VBI and the TVGOS EPG data with it.

The only slim chance that we who have units with analog TVGOS have is that Macrovision will contract with cable systems to inject the EPG data into the VBI of the analog video signal that they may (or may not!) be providing to their subscribers...and I am not holding my breath...


How about these new tuners, like this one from Samsung DTB-H260F ... this has a on-screen guide function that somehow will get simular info as we were all getting from TVGOS, but through the digital tuner. Do you know anything about it's guide fuction (as it doesn't seem to be TVG) and if there are any new DVRs out there that use the same free on-screen guide as with the Samsung tuner above?

I picked up the Phillips DVR with digital tuner, but it has no on-screen guide and works like an old VCR. I'm not liking it much ... It's nice that it's got a digital tuner and I can watch recorded shows in near HD, but I really miss the TVGOS and need to know if there are any new ones out there that will work with the new digital signal. Having to shell out a monthly fee to TIVO or my cable company for a box really doesn't sit well with me.
HGN2001's Avatar HGN2001 12:44 PM 12-09-2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by rgazzara View Post

Funny, I'm having no problem with TVGOS on Comcast cable in Bucks County in the Philly suburbs. Currently, WPVI ABC channel 6 is the host channel.

How are you receiving the TVGOS, and on which device?

Straight over-the-air television - no cable or satellite - on a Sony TV that has the TVGOS system on it.

Harry
jjeff's Avatar jjeff 01:53 PM 12-09-2008
The Samsung uses PSIP which is supposed to go out at least 12 hours and may go for many days. The problem with PSIP is it varies so much by area. The DTVPal CECB uses PSIP for it's guide similar to the Sammy. In fact most CECBs use PSIP in some forum or another. Some like the Zenith 901 only have next/now while others like the DTVPal can go out much longer. The CM-7000 CECB that I have goes out 12 hours.
Panasonic DVDRs use PSIP to title their recordings on digital broadcasts but you can't program by PSIP, only VCR type timers.
The only new thing on the horizon to use TVGOS or PSIP for programming would be the DTVPal DVR. It costs between $250-$300 and should be available mid December. It won't have a DVD burner but will record in HD. It's OTA only, nothing really like it new for cable/sat. users.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=972197
djmike0408's Avatar djmike0408 02:35 PM 12-09-2008
I heard back from my local public TV station. Below is the emails. Sounds like the issue in Frederick, MD lies with my cable provider (Comcast). I know how hard it is to get a straight answer from them, but I'll be trying there next.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
My email to public TV:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: djmike0408
Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 10:42 AM
To: engineering@mpt.org; kholcomb@mpt.org; comments@mpt.org
Subject: TVGOS

Hello,

I have a DVR (Digital Video Recorder) that uses the TVGOS (TV Guide On-Screen) free service in order to program the shows that I want to record. The TVGOS feed has not been trasmitting for the last week and I understand from the makers of the product (Pioneer) that the TVGOS feed is sent from the public TV station.

So, I'm contacting MPT to see why the TVGOS signal has not been working for the past week and when it will come back online. I live in Frederick, MD 21703 and I get my service provided to me by Comcast Cable (I have Extended Basic service) if that helps in anyway.

Thank you in advance for your help on this problem.

Best regards

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
There response:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hello,

Our director of engineering assures me that our part of this is functioning normally. In such cases, the difficulty most often lies with the content provider, in this case Comcast Cable. Sorry I could not be of more assistance, but everything on our end is in order. Thanks for watching!

Regards,

Jody --------
Member Relations Supervisor
Maryland Public Television
11767 Owings Mills Blvd.
Owings Mills, MD 21117
xhibit#4's Avatar xhibit#4 04:28 PM 12-09-2008
I live in the Philly western burbs (19407) and had intermitent, and now no TVGOS for the last month. This seemed to coincide with my CableCard being replaced due to signal drop-outs on my 50HP95 Plasma and thought the no-guide issue was related, not so sure now. Contacted Toshiba, found out there is wispread outages because of switching to digital TVGOS. Reset TVGOS with the 653159147, the next day It went from "Guide will be available in 24 hours" to "No data listed for this screen" Called Toshiba back and they filled out a report to send to TVGOS, because of the many outages across the country it could take awhile for them to get back to me. Host channel is blank, version is listed as 08.01.53/08.06.44. Contacted Comcast and will have a tech out Thursday so they can call above them to see if the TGOS carrier channel has changed in my area. Toshiba said that CBS will take over for the digital version.
rgazzara's Avatar rgazzara 05:13 PM 12-09-2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by HGN2001 View Post

Straight over-the-air television - no cable or satellite - on a Sony TV that has the TVGOS system on it.

Harry

OK, that is very different than my Panasonic DVD recorder with Comcast cable.

BTW, do you get a clear picture for WPVI ABC channel 6?

Perhaps the Sony uses a version of the TVGOS that is different than my Panasonic. Do you know if it is using the digital TVGOS? If it is, the EPG data should be provided by KYW CBS channel 3.
rgazzara's Avatar rgazzara 05:14 PM 12-09-2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjeff View Post

The Samsung uses PSIP which is supposed to go out at least 12 hours and may go for many days. The problem with PSIP is it varies so much by area. The DTVPal CECB uses PSIP for it's guide similar to the Sammy. In fact most CECBs use PSIP in some forum or another. Some like the Zenith 901 only have next/now while others like the DTVPal can go out much longer. The CM-7000 CECB that I have goes out 12 hours.
Panasonic DVDRs use PSIP to title their recordings on digital broadcasts but you can't program by PSIP, only VCR type timers.
The only new thing on the horizon to use TVGOS or PSIP for programming would be the DTVPal DVR. It costs between $250-$300 and should be available mid December. It won't have a DVD burner but will record in HD. It's OTA only, nothing really like it new for cable/sat. users.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=972197

My Samsung Samsung DTB-H260F has never had any program guide, nor program information over Comcast cable.
rgazzara's Avatar rgazzara 05:24 PM 12-09-2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by djmike0408 View Post

I heard back from my local public TV station. Below is the emails. Sounds like the issue in Frederick, MD lies with my cable provider (Comcast). I know how hard it is to get a straight answer from them, but I'll be trying there next.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
My email to public TV:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: djmike0408
Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 10:42 AM
To: engineering@mpt.org; kholcomb@mpt.org; comments@mpt.org
Subject: TVGOS

Hello,

I have a DVR (Digital Video Recorder) that uses the TVGOS (TV Guide On-Screen) free service in order to program the shows that I want to record. The TVGOS feed has not been trasmitting for the last week and I understand from the makers of the product (Pioneer) that the TVGOS feed is sent from the public TV station.

So, I'm contacting MPT to see why the TVGOS signal has not been working for the past week and when it will come back online. I live in Frederick, MD 21703 and I get my service provided to me by Comcast Cable (I have Extended Basic service) if that helps in anyway.

Thank you in advance for your help on this problem.

Best regards

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
There response:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hello,

Our director of engineering assures me that our part of this is functioning normally. In such cases, the difficulty most often lies with the content provider, in this case Comcast Cable. Sorry I could not be of more assistance, but everything on our end is in order. Thanks for watching!

Regards,

Jody --------
Member Relations Supervisor
Maryland Public Television
11767 Owings Mills Blvd.
Owings Mills, MD 21117

See if you can get closed captions on the PBS station. The TVGOS EPG data is carried in the VBI, which also carries closed captions.

Unless Comcast is screwing with the video signal, I don't see how the missing EPG data can be their fault.

Do you get get your TV through a set-top box? If so, that might be a problem. I get mine through a direct connection, and not through a STB.
jjeff's Avatar jjeff 05:34 PM 12-09-2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by rgazzara View Post

My Samsung Samsung DTB-H260F has never had any program guide, nor program information over Comcast cable.

Maybe it doesn't get guide on cable??
When I had one OTA it had a decent PSIP guide, in fact it was the only way to program it's timers. If it had had a manual timer I might have kept it. The way it was with PSIP only going out 12 hours, sometimes less sometimes more, it wasn't very useful.
rgazzara's Avatar rgazzara 05:53 PM 12-09-2008
Yeah, I tried the program timers, but with no program information, they wouldn't work.
HGN2001's Avatar HGN2001 06:07 PM 12-09-2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by rgazzara View Post

OK, that is very different than my Panasonic DVD recorder with Comcast cable.

BTW, do you get a clear picture for WPVI ABC channel 6?

Perhaps the Sony uses a version of the TVGOS that is different than my Panasonic. Do you know if it is using the digital TVGOS? If it is, the EPG data should be provided by KYW CBS channel 3.

I get perfect reception of all Philly digital channels from up here in the northern suburbs (about 18-20 miles from the towers in Roxborough). Even the hard-to-get WHYY comes in clear as a bell here. I have an outdoor full UHF-VHF antenna mounted on the chimney.

I believe the Sony TV IS using the digital channels to receive the TVGOS info. When it worked a day or so ago, it said the host channel was "26" which is the real channel number used by CBS3 to broadcast their digital signal.

My suspicion is that the system is in a state of flux temporarily and will ultimately settle down and be more stable.

Harry
dlj9999's Avatar dlj9999 10:57 PM 12-09-2008
djmike0408,

I've been having the same missing listings problem as you. I have a Sony HDD-500 and a Sharp LC-32D7U. This past Sunday was the first time in 2 1/2 weeks I got a 24-hour listing. I've performed all of the reset procedures listed here. Sunday was the only time it worked. Since you're so close to where I live, I'm hoping you get a better response from someone(comcast/wmpt/weta/etc) than what I've tried.
Sean Nelson's Avatar Sean Nelson 10:58 PM 12-09-2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by djmike0408 View Post

My understanding is that come FEB Comcast will still transmit a signal that will work with my non-HD TVs with out a cable box. Is this correct? If so, why wouldn't the DVR still pick-up the TVGOS signal if it's being transmitted?

If your cable company still receives the TVGOS data then it should be able to transmit it to you. The issue is that (as far as the old analog version of TVGOS goes) the data is transmitted from the broadcast station to the cable company via an analog signal. Once the broadcaster shuts down the analog signal and goes to digital, the cable company won't receive the data to forward to you.

The cable companies will be converting the digital picture they receive to analogue for transmission over their networks. The big question is whether there will be an equivalent digital TVGOS data stream that can be converted to the analogue VBI data required by old TVGOS equipment such as yours. And even if there is such equipment, whether the cable company will bother to use it.

I strongly suspect that many of the reports of people losing their TVGOS data are due to cable companies starting to switch over to digital feeds and losing the TVGOS info in the process.
rgazzara's Avatar rgazzara 05:32 AM 12-10-2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by HGN2001 View Post

I get perfect reception of all Philly digital channels from up here in the northern suburbs (about 18-20 miles from the towers in Roxborough). Even the hard-to-get WHYY comes in clear as a bell here. I have an outdoor full UHF-VHF antenna mounted on the chimney.

I believe the Sony TV IS using the digital channels to receive the TVGOS info. When it worked a day or so ago, it said the host channel was "26" which is the real channel number used by CBS3 to broadcast their digital signal.

My suspicion is that the system is in a state of flux temporarily and will ultimately settle down and be more stable.

Harry

I agree Harry. My guess is that CBS3 is only now starting to get the TVGOS digital EPG out in its signal. They may be turning it on and off for a while until the February switchover to digital. You should be OK then.
Ace H's Avatar Ace H 03:48 PM 12-10-2008
My Panasonic EH55 has stopped receiveing TVGOS recently. I just reset it and waiting to see what happens. My cable company is Cox here in the New Orleans area. TVGOS in this area was broadcast by the local PBS station via the analog cable. I just emailed them and waiting for a response.
jjeff's Avatar jjeff 04:00 PM 12-10-2008
It's possible its been moved to your local CBS station, in my area it was. If you don't get any response from your PBS station you might want to try your local CBS station.
Has your EH-55 been searching? If you're using a STB/IR blaster you can tell because the channels keep changing when the EH-55 is off.
Ace H's Avatar Ace H 04:41 PM 12-10-2008
It's searching. I will check in a few hours to see if anything shows up.

UPDATE:

So far it's found ALL the stations (including the Digital ones and correctly identified them). I see my Host Channel listed (still local PBS station). However everything says "NO LISTING". Checked the setup status and everything is DONE except "listings transmission" which is scheduled for tomorrow morning, 12/11/08.

UPDATE II: 12/11/08

Program information is now starting to fill in. Everything is working again.
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