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post #1 of 20 Old 03-26-2008, 03:11 PM - Thread Starter
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I am looking for a HT for my small living room and I almost click on the BUY button for a Bose Acoustimass 10 Series IV home entertainment speaker system and a Onkyo HT SR-605, then I saw some negative feedback for the Bose speakers, so I want to go for the Onkyo HT-SP908.

However, when I read more threads in this forum, I sense that part of those threads are anti-Bose, I am new here and I don't have any prejudge for anything, this is the feeling I have after I read many threads against Bose to the extreme. Again, this is the my feeling on those threads, which make me think twice, are Bose that bad?

I have listened to both system and they both sounds good in the store, I will go back and listen to both system and purchase the better one, the reason I post this thread is:

1. Are these 2 options: Bose Acoustimass 10 Series IV and Onkyo HT-SP908 in the same level to compare to each other?
2. Is there anything bad to Onkyo HT-SP908?
3. What should I listen for the weakness of the Bose system?

Thanks!

Pat
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post #2 of 20 Old 03-26-2008, 08:24 PM
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bose likes to spend money on advertising- tv, magazines of all kinds - and sell cheap carboard & plastic boxes.

real audio companies like to spend money on manufacturing quality products and r&d

*dont sue me bose, i have no proof, its heresay, and i have free speech or one of those things.
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post #3 of 20 Old 03-27-2008, 11:25 AM
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To OP, if you've read all those 'anti-bose' threads, then I'm sure you've read this article?
http://www.intellexual.net/bose.html
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post #4 of 20 Old 03-27-2008, 02:01 PM
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Pasu, I have the Onkyo HT-SP908 system and couldn't be more happy with it. If you wanna know more about my set up go here:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...926665&page=23
I think I'm still the last post on the page. I have never owned Bose products before and cannot really speak to their quality. I know their products sound pretty good in the store. I can't shake the feeling that it's overrated and you're paying all that money for a name though. There are some decent insights on the topic at avtruths.com if you wanna check it out. Remember this though, that when you use those little tiny, out of the way speakers along with a subwoofer, you get great bass and great high end sound. What you don't get great is mid-range, and that would be people's voices. If you're able to go listen to the speakers you want at the store, take your own cd with you. You know what it's supposed to sound like. Pay particular attention to the voices. Female vocals may even be better. See which speakers sound best to you. In the end all that matters is that you're happy with the way they sound.

Steve

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post #5 of 20 Old 03-27-2008, 02:15 PM
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By the way ImagePree, thanks for posting that link. I found the site to be very informative.

Steve

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post #6 of 20 Old 03-27-2008, 04:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Fireman325, Thank you very much!! Your info. will help me to "listen" to the system when I am in the store, I will pay attention to voice.

ImagePree, No, I have not see that site yet. Thanks for the link!!! this one has a lot of info. in it and it is not the "Anti-Bose" style that I means. It is very interesting and I am reading it now.
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post #7 of 20 Old 03-27-2008, 07:08 PM
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At the risk of being jumped on by the anti-Bose contingent, I just want to point out the myth that advertising raises a product's price. On the contrary. Advertising usually leads to lower prices because it usually increases sales volume. Low sales volume often keeps prices higher because there are fewer unit sales providing the margin to cover the costs of making and distributing the product.

If Bose products are overpriced, it's because that's where the company has set their price points based on perceived value. Like it or hate it, Bose has created a brand that people are willing to pay a premium price for.

And while this may be hard for audiophiles to understand, some people evaluate audio products on more criteria than just the quality of the sound. Bose's home theater system with the tiny speakers sold like crazy because lots and lots of people wanted their audio hardware to virtually disappear. They were willing to trade some sound quality for visual aesthetics. If you've put thousands of dollars into a making a living room look good, you really don't want a stack of speakers the size of a refrigerator detracting from the decor.

Bose was the first major manufacturer to understand this about the high-end audio market. They also understood that people wanted a better sounding clock radio, and they invented the Wave.

Because of Bose's success over the past decade, other audio manufacturers have since gotten on board the small-speaker bandwagon. I wonder how long it would have taken if Bose had not led the way.

If a Bose system sounds good to you, then buy it. If visual aesthetics are not important to you, then you can likely find another system that will sound as good or better than the Bose for less money, and will still have speakers of a size that you can live with.

Here's one final consideration. Because of the strength of the Bose brand name, the resale value of your used Bose equipment will be higher than if you purchased a brand with less cachet--at least, that's what I'm seeing on Craig's List.
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post #8 of 20 Old 03-27-2008, 07:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DevonTT View Post

And while this may be hard for audiophiles to understand, some people evaluate audio products on more criteria than just the quality of the sound. Bose's home theater system with the tiny speakers sold like crazy because lots and lots of people wanted their audio hardware to virtually disappear. They were willing to trade some sound quality for visual aesthetics. If you've put thousands of dollars into a making a living room look good, you really don't want a stack of speakers the size of a refrigerator detracting from the decor.

One shouldn't be spending thousands of dollars on a nice room only to buy PAPER coned speakers in plastic boxes, there are better speakers that take up the same space like Orb speakers.

XBL Krimzen Rage
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post #9 of 20 Old 03-27-2008, 09:24 PM
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There weren't when I bought my Bose system. If there had been a better option at the time, I would have taken it.

Not that it would make any difference to the opinions here, but the Jewels are in a metal box.
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post #10 of 20 Old 03-27-2008, 10:18 PM
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I'm aware Bose was better respected many many years ago but not today. The Orb speakers are in a sphere, not a box. Ever notice that pressure vessels are generally round or sphere shaped? Thats because the forces imposed on the sphere are creating unidirectional tensile stresses on the metal, metal is much better in tension that say it would be in a box where the forces create bending. The plastic(composite maybe)boxes Bose use are not as good at restraining pressures/pressure waves as spheres. Hopefully I have described this in a way you can understand. Producing spherical speaker boxes would not be economically feasible to Bose where production cost are only like 10% of the final cost.

XBL Krimzen Rage
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post #11 of 20 Old 03-27-2008, 11:10 PM
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Let me tell you guys a little story about Bose. I don't do Bose or HTIB. I walked into a Bose store and was ready to mash on the sales guy. I was all ready to show him what was up and that Bose quality was vastly inferior to even the cheapest speaker systems and amplifiers. I didn't expect what the sales guy had to say. He pointed to the JVC receiver that they had hooked to one of their displays and asked, "Do you know how to operate this JVC receiver?" I proudly replied, "Well.......yes I do." He then said, "Well I don't know how to and don't even want to learn how to." He then asked, "Do you like to experiment with and calibrate your speakers?" I answered yes. He then said, "Well I don't. All I do is put on the Bose headset and sit in the three main seating areas of the room and I'm done setting up the system."

It then all the sudden hit me. Quite possibly more than half of the members on this forum should get Bose because most people, especially newbees don't know the first thing about setting up even a HTIB properly. The Bose allows the customer to put the speakers where they think it looks nice and then Bose does the rest. No Bose has no dynamics in their sound, but I dare say that an easy Bose setup will sound worlds better than even a properly setup HTIB simply because the cheaply made Bose components are heavily EQ'ed by the Bose control module to make them sound decent in the particular room they're in as where the HTIB cannot. Yeah, receivers now days have Audessy which has proven to be an inaccurate tool for hands free correct calibration. Whatever takes you where you wanna go is what is important. Now if you don't have the money, then you can't have Bose. Don't hate the player, hate the game.

Your system can shine no matter what it's made of.......except if it's Bose.
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post #12 of 20 Old 03-28-2008, 01:39 AM
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Dang Mr. Audio, that story really makes me want to hit that sales guy haha.
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post #13 of 20 Old 03-28-2008, 02:01 AM
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Its the sales pitch that they use. I work in retail (college student) and i go to all these vendor meetings and such. Bose held one to show of their adapt-q technology. Basically they set up their lifestyle system and put flower pots over the speakers. Of course they sounded very muffled and soft. Then the guy got someone in the audience to use the adapt-q with the headphones and such. Turned it on again after the calibration was done all automatically. And i **** you not, the speakers were not muffled at all. So obviously Bose is an ideal system to the non-audiophile and or someone who just simply does not understand electronics at all. Plus if i were to design a business model it would be after Bose, im sure Bose has made millions upon millions of dollars with the way they market their product.
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post #14 of 20 Old 03-28-2008, 05:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Audio View Post


It then all the sudden hit me. Quite possibly more than half of the members on this forum should get Bose because most people, especially newbees don't know the first thing about setting up even a HTIB properly. The Bose allows the customer to put the speakers where they think it looks nice and then Bose does the rest. No Bose has no dynamics in their sound, but I dare say that an easy Bose setup will sound worlds better than even a properly setup HTIB simply because the cheaply made Bose components are heavily EQ'ed by the Bose control module to make them sound decent in the particular room they're in as where the HTIB cannot. Yeah, receivers now days have Audessy which has proven to be an inaccurate tool for hands free correct calibration. Whatever takes you where you wanna go is what is important. Now if you don't have the money, then you can't have Bose. Don't hate the player, hate the game.


Ok, so I have to ask,,, I read the first half of your post and understood it, the second half lost me. (the part I included as your quote)
I read the last half of your post more than a few times and could not figure out the point your trying to make.
No offense ment, I was just curious about the second half of your post.

Cheers
Davyo
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post #15 of 20 Old 03-28-2008, 12:28 PM
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hhhhmmmmm... my uncle had a bose Am-5 for more than 8 years now but it seem to have very clear sound until now...i think it does'nt really matters if it is paper coned speaker...the quality is still there, nothing changed..
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post #16 of 20 Old 03-28-2008, 01:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DevonTT View Post

At the risk of being jumped on by the anti-Bose contingent, I just want to point out the myth that advertising raises a product's price. On the contrary. Advertising usually leads to lower prices because it usually increases sales volume. Low sales volume often keeps prices higher because there are fewer unit sales providing the margin to cover the costs of making and distributing the product.

If Bose products are overpriced, it's because that's where the company has set their price points based on perceived value. Like it or hate it, Bose has created a brand that people are willing to pay a premium price for.

And while this may be hard for audiophiles to understand, some people evaluate audio products on more criteria than just the quality of the sound. Bose's home theater system with the tiny speakers sold like crazy because lots and lots of people wanted their audio hardware to virtually disappear. They were willing to trade some sound quality for visual aesthetics. If you've put thousands of dollars into a making a living room look good, you really don't want a stack of speakers the size of a refrigerator detracting from the decor.

Bose was the first major manufacturer to understand this about the high-end audio market. They also understood that people wanted a better sounding clock radio, and they invented the Wave.

Because of Bose's success over the past decade, other audio manufacturers have since gotten on board the small-speaker bandwagon. I wonder how long it would have taken if Bose had not led the way.

If a Bose system sounds good to you, then buy it. If visual aesthetics are not important to you, then you can likely find another system that will sound as good or better than the Bose for less money, and will still have speakers of a size that you can live with.

Here's one final consideration. Because of the strength of the Bose brand name, the resale value of your used Bose equipment will be higher than if you purchased a brand with less cachet--at least, that's what I'm seeing on Craig's List.

nice post
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post #17 of 20 Old 03-28-2008, 02:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davyo View Post

Ok, so I have to ask,,, I read the first half of your post and understood it, the second half lost me. (the part I included as your quote)
I read the last half of your post more than a few times and could not figure out the point your trying to make.
No offense ment, I was just curious about the second half of your post.

Cheers
Davyo

I'm sorry for the second half of the post. It was late and I was trying to convey too many thoughts for how tired I was. Let me interpret.

Bose like Dfernen said, "Bose is an ideal system to the non-audiophile and or someone who just simply does not understand electronics at all." People who want relatively decent sound can get it will no hassle of calibration or speaker placement. A lot of people on this forum and others want something that sounds good, but don't understand that simply buying the best products that they can afford is less than 50% of the battle. Most of the battle for good sound takes place in setup. A poorly setup high-end system will always lose to the optimized mid-grade system. Placing the speakers, adjusting levels and distance for each one, equalizing bass and even mains and center if it applies, and adding any type of acoustical dampening you may need is a massive pain in the ass. It's the only way to greatness but a ton of people don't wanna deal with it and I can't blame them. The Bose lifestyle systems take all these long processes out. No system is truly plug and play except for Bose. Will they have great sound with Bose? No. They will have decent sound at best, but a lot of people think decent sound is good enough. No, the bass box doesn't hit even close to what is considered low, and the cubes can't reproduce deafening highs, but it does the most important part which is in the middle of the two extremes and thanks to their signal processing they can take cheap cabinets and paper cone drivers and make them sound like something more than what they really are. With Bose, you're not paying for craftsmanship and materials, you're paying for convenience.

Your system can shine no matter what it's made of.......except if it's Bose.
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post #18 of 20 Old 04-01-2008, 06:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Audio View Post

[..] thanks to their signal processing they can take cheap cabinets and paper cone drivers [..]

I'd just like to point out that the lifestyle Jewels use Neodymium magnets and poly-mica cones, not paper. The other larger speakers on the AM15 use the paper cones you were referring too. Why people still believe everything they read on the internet, especially personal webpages & blogs, is beyond me.
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post #19 of 20 Old 04-01-2008, 09:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davyo View Post

Ok, so I have to ask,,, I read the first half of your post and understood it, the second half lost me. (the part I included as your quote)
I read the last half of your post more than a few times and could not figure out the point your trying to make.
No offense ment, I was just curious about the second half of your post.

Cheers
Davyo

I was curious too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tattoed View Post

hhhhmmmmm... my uncle had a bose Am-5 for more than 8 years now but it seem to have very clear sound until now...i think it does'nt really matters if it is paper coned speaker...the quality is still there, nothing changed..

Yeah The driver cone material doesnt matter much, A lot og "good" speakers have paper cone drivers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by phoenix79 View Post

I'd just like to point out that the lifestyle Jewels use Neodymium magnets and poly-mica cones, not paper. The other larger speakers on the AM15 use the paper cones you were referring too. Why people still believe everything they read on the internet, especially personal webpages & blogs, is beyond me.

Finally someone said something that was correct. Maybe these people shold read the product descriptions and do research before they bash.

Quote:
Originally Posted by malovich View Post

I'm aware Bose was better respected many many years ago but not today. The Orb speakers are in a sphere, not a box. Ever notice that pressure vessels are generally round or sphere shaped? Thats because the forces imposed on the sphere are creating unidirectional tensile stresses on the metal, metal is much better in tension that say it would be in a box where the forces create bending. The plastic(composite maybe)boxes Bose use are not as good at restraining pressures/pressure waves as spheres. Hopefully I have described this in a way you can understand. Producing spherical speaker boxes would not be economically feasible to Bose where production cost are only like 10% of the final cost.

well a lot of square speakers sound good so why can't a cube sound good?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DevonTT View Post

There weren't when I bought my Bose system. If there had been a better option at the time, I would have taken it.

Not that it would make any difference to the opinions here, but the Jewels are in a metal box.

You can tell by looking at them that they are metal.

One shall stand... One Shall Fall... - Optimus Prime
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post #20 of 20 Old 04-02-2008, 03:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Raymond Leggs View Post

Finally someone said something that was correct. Maybe these people shold read the product descriptions and do research before they bash.

I believe that would ruin the fun for a lot of people. Why research when you can join the band wagon.
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