List of HTIB's and/or AVR's with HDMI audio processing (5.1/7.1 PCM) Help List Grow!! - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 212 Old 04-15-2008, 12:52 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
darkleafar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 345
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 10
This is the new thread to replace the old sticky, because the previous author only posted twice in this forums, disappeared, and thus we could not update the list. Through the special permission of an administrator, I have made a new thread that was immediately stickied. I will update as much as possible. Please help make the list grow!

With that being said, the purpose of this thread is to provide a list of the few "future-proofed" receivers and/or HTIB's that will process PCM signal through HDMI with as many as 7.1 channels in order to be able to get the new lossless formats. For those who do not know, an explanation of why PCM is important is provided below. As far as I know, there does not seem to be many of the latter, and thus I think a list will prove very useful for a lot of people. Many people will probably say why not simply use analog outputs. My response to those people makes me think of two things:
  1. Some people do not want to deal with complex connections involving analog to digital, digital to analog, etc.
  2. A considerable amount of people are PS3 owners, and this kind of receiver/HTIB is indispensable for the release of the PS3's full audio potential (lossless formats, Dolby TrueHD, DTS MA)
LINEAR PCM VS. BITSTREAM

It was called to my attention that some people in this forum might find this information at best, useful; at worst, informative. Linear PCM is the state an audio signal is in after it has been decoded. Bitstream is the state an audio signal is in before it is decoded. In other words, Linear PCM has already been decoded and is ready to be outputted through the speakers; whereas Bitstream is a virgin signal and must be decoded at some point, either in the receiver or the player, before being outputted through the speakers. PS3 is not capable of sending HD lossless formats in bitstream format. Instead, the PS3 is designed to decode the HD lossless signals on board and then send them as Linear PCM to a receiver that is capable of accepting at least 5.1 to 7.1 channels via HDMI cable in an LPCM. Thus the need for this thread.

However, it is important to understand that HDMI is the only cable compatible with the PS3 that has enough bandwidth to transfer HD lossless audio in Linear PCM form. Optical and RCA cables, the only other options in the PS3, only have enough bandwidth for different forms of stereo and surround audio. If you send Linear PCM through Optical or RCA, you will only get 2.0 channels of audio, because that is all the bandwidth these cables are designed to handle.

Another fact some people might find useful: there a lot more players that decode both DTS MA and True HD than there are Receivers. Therefore, it is inherently more common (and easier) to have a blu-ray player that decodes both HD formats on board and therefore sends an LPCM audio signal to a receiver, connected via HDMI, that accepts and processes at least 5.1 or 7.1 channels of LPCM (in this case, the receiver does not necessarily have to claim to be able to decode HD formats since they would be decoded on the player, not the receiver); than it is to have a blu-ray player that fails to decode at least one format (namely DTS MA) and therefore sends a bitstream audio signal to a receiver, connected via an analog, optical or HDMI cable, that would be accepting the bitstream signal to be processed on board (in this case, the receiver does have to claim to be able to decode HD formats because the audio bitstream signal would be decoded on the receiver, not the player).

WHY IS PCM IMPORTANT?

If anybody is looking around these forums and they are new to certain subjects, such as me who used to be new to all AVR related stuff because I have never owned one before, I think is important that I post a fact here that I had to look for long and hard to make sure I was on the right track before buying my AVR. Here it is:

Any receiver that is capable of accepting LPCM (usually they accept anywhere from 5.1 to 8 channels) can and will be able to give you the high end formats, DTS-MA, DOLBY-TRUEHD, or Uncompressed PCM (LPCM). It does not matter if the receiver does not say or does not have stamped somewhere on the box or on the receiver the symbols for DTS-MA or DOLBY-TRUEHD (Uncompressed PCM is usually not directly referred to by manufacturers). However, it does matter whether the BLU-RAY or HD-DVD player has the DTS-MA and/or DOLBY-TRUEHD symbol stamped on the box, because if your receiver is not going to decode these formats, you player is going to have to. As long as you make sure that the receiver is able to accept LPCM/PCM (watch out how many channels it accepts) and that your player has either DTS-MA or DOLBY-TRUEHD stamped on its box you will definetely get lossless audio. All PS3 owners do not have to worry, PS3 is perfectly capable of decoding both formats on board. Although many of you already know this, there a lot of people who do not. The above is possible because every single HD-DVD or BLU-RAY player will and must be capable of playing the Uncompressed LPCM audio track which is lossless audio of the same quality as DTS-MA or DOLBY-TRUEHD. If you have a BLU-RAY disc or HD-DVD that does not contain an Uncompressed LPCM track, it is going to have either of the other two formats. Since we have already made sure the player we have has at least one of these formats stamped on the box, the player you have will and must be capable of decoding the HD audio formats on board, then outputting it as PCM to any receiver that accepts it. The difference would be that the ps3, for instance, can only do this through HDMI. (many people see this as a setback but personally I do not) Other dedicated players, are gonna be able to accept PCM and process it through analog outputs without necessarily using HDMI. At this point, it is a matter of preference. For further information on PCM and the new lossless formats, please refer to this very informative sticky thread or also you can check out the official consumer white page published by Dolby Labs and by DTS Inc. The consumer white page is lengthy, useful information for consumers who want to know how the new HD audio signals work and what you need to get them to output correctly and losslessly. Links are below:

DTS-HD Consumer White Page
Dolby TrueHD Consumer White Page

THE BIG "BUT" TO PCM

Just because the receiver is able to accept LPCM, it does not mean it will be able to process it. The LFE (Low Frequency Effects) channel which is represented by the ".1" in a 2.1, 5.1, or 7.1 system, is a audio channel that exclusively carries bass-only information. More info here and here as well (links provided by Ecuadorian, thanks!). This channel, when received via PCM, needs to be boosted from 1db(decibel) to at least 10db or else you will hear a very low volume bass coming out of your subwoofer. The remaining channels need to be extracted from the LPCM signal, and if they are not you will get a a bassless sound, or at least the bass will be very low. Unfortunately, this details are not always told or listed by the manufacturers, therefore sometimes the only way to know whether a device is true LPCM (and by that I meant that it is able to support at least 5.1 channels and boost the bass) is to actually buy it and try it out, or, of course, search around this forums. That is after all why we are all here ^_^

LIST OF HTIB'S AND AVR'S WITH HDMI AUDIO PROCESSING (LINEAR PCM)

*Underlined items on the list are AVR's, not HTIB's.* I realize this is the HTIB forum, and adding receivers might seem out of topic, but I did not want to have to exclude a receiver if somebody made the suggestion to add it. While I will not deliberately look for receivers to be added, and while I will be focusing on adding HTIB's, I will not say "no" if somebody suggests and AVR. ( I want to thank wallst32 for pointing this out to me )

Denon
-AVR-2308CI
-AVR-788
-AVR-1908


Samsung
-AS720

Sony
-HT-7200DH (Available May)
-HT-CT100
-HT-SS2300 (Coming this summer)
-HT-SF2000
-HT-SS2000
-STR-DG720
-STR-DG820
-STR-DG910
-STR-DG920


Onkyo
-HT-SP907
-HT-SP908
-TX-SR605
-TX-SR705
-TX-SR875
*All Onkyo receivers models SR6XX and above will be able (or already are able) to handle HDMI audio.

Bose


Harman Kardon
-AVR-247
-AVR-347
-AVR-254/354/754
(coming spring/summer 2008)

Yamaha
-RX-V661
-RX-V663

This is all I got so far. I would like to point out that I am by no means an expert or a professional in all of this. I am just one more member, learning as much as I can, and helping out others as much as I can. If you know any more AVR's or HTIB's that can be added to this list, please post them here, and I will add them to the list. I will update as much as possible. If you see any of my facts are wrong please let me know, I am by no means perfect. Further info about each HTIB and receiver will be added on the list (i.e channels, average price, perhaps more) Comments are appreciated and welcome
darkleafar is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 212 Old 04-15-2008, 10:17 AM
Newbie
 
gunstarx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 8
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I think adding further info (ie, playstation 3, comcast etc) is an awesome idea - i'm a newbie as you can see (first post hehe), and I want my next system to be future proof as much as possible like many of us here. Good job on the explanation and putting together this list with everyone. kudos all!
gunstarx is offline  
post #3 of 212 Old 04-15-2008, 11:02 AM
AVS Special Member
 
samsurd2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: North Texas
Posts: 3,450
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Suggest you remove the Sony HT-DDW995 from your list. Here's why:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...8#post11069168
samsurd2 is offline  
post #4 of 212 Old 04-15-2008, 01:24 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
darkleafar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 345
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by samsurd2 View Post

Suggest you remove the Sony HT-DDW995 from your list. Here's why:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...8#post11069168

Thank you for the info, it is now removed ^_^ care to add any?
darkleafar is offline  
post #5 of 212 Old 04-15-2008, 01:26 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
darkleafar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 345
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by gunstarx View Post

I think adding further info (ie, playstation 3, comcast etc) is an awesome idea - i'm a newbie as you can see (first post hehe), and I want my next system to be future proof as much as possible like many of us here. Good job on the explanation and putting together this list with everyone. kudos all!

Well, welcome to the forums. However, by fiurther info I meant further info on the receivers and HITBs listed on the list, not on what equipment you have. Just clarifying things so people will not get confused
darkleafar is offline  
post #6 of 212 Old 04-15-2008, 02:41 PM
Newbie
 
jcantara's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Chelmsford, MA
Posts: 4
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Are you sure the Sony HT-DDWG700 does HDMI? It doesn't have HDMI inputs at all that I can see:

Forgive me if I'm missing something obvious, I'm quite new at all this (shopping for my first home theater setup in the next couple of months or so)
jcantara is offline  
post #7 of 212 Old 04-15-2008, 04:53 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
darkleafar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 345
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcantara View Post

Are you sure the Sony HT-DDWG700 does HDMI? It doesn't have HDMI inputs at all that I can see:

Forgive me if I'm missing something obvious, I'm quite new at all this (shopping for my first home theater setup in the next couple of months or so)

Although I have read extensively on home theater and learned a lot in the past couple of months, I will also be buying my first AVR sometime in the next couple of months. Maybe I ll wait for black friday sale.. anyways, thank you very much for pointing out that receiver. It does not do HDMI, it has been removed.
darkleafar is offline  
post #8 of 212 Old 04-15-2008, 05:07 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
darkleafar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 345
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 10
darkleafar is offline  
post #9 of 212 Old 04-15-2008, 05:30 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
darkleafar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 345
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 10
darkleafar is offline  
post #10 of 212 Old 04-15-2008, 06:49 PM
Member
 
wallst32's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 187
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Since this is the HTIB forum, shouldn't the list be kept to just HTIBs rather than HTIBs AND receivers? A complete set (HTIB), or buying piece by piece certainly caters to a different group of consumers.

Additionally, there are already several receivers released in 2007 that have HDMI audio processing supporting multichannel PCM. People looking for these models, would go to the recievers forum, not the HTIB forum.
wallst32 is offline  
post #11 of 212 Old 04-15-2008, 06:56 PM
Member
 
wallst32's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 187
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I guess the other suggestion that I would make is if you want to keep the list HTIB and receiver, at least denote what's what. Maybe an * can mean it's HTIB. Or just put the HTIBs on top, and receivers on the bottom of the list.
wallst32 is offline  
post #12 of 212 Old 04-15-2008, 08:54 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
darkleafar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 345
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by wallst32 View Post

I guess the other suggestion that I would make is if you want to keep the list HTIB and receiver, at least denote what's what. Maybe an * can mean it's HTIB. Or just put the HTIBs on top, and receivers on the bottom of the list.

Thanks for helping out with your suggestions. List updated.
Wait what? where did you get and HD DVD player for 99 bucks? o.O
darkleafar is offline  
post #13 of 212 Old 04-15-2008, 09:58 PM
Member
 
wallst32's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 187
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by darkleafar View Post

Thanks for helping out with your suggestions. List updated.
Wait what? where did you get and HD DVD player for 99 bucks? o.O

Ah, that $99 is in reference to the Walmart sale back in Nov '07. I need to update my tagline since I already sold the unit, but I'm too lazy

For receivers you can add:

Harman Kardon:
AVR-247
AVR-347
AVR-254/354/754 (coming spring/summer 2008)

Onkyo:
TX-SR605
TX-SR705
TX-SR875

Yamaha:
RX-V661

The receiver list is going to get very long as the feature will be much more common going forward.
wallst32 is offline  
post #14 of 212 Old 04-15-2008, 10:05 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
darkleafar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 345
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by wallst32 View Post

Ah, that $99 is in reference to the Walmart sale back in Nov '07. I need to update my tagline since I already sold the unit, but I'm too lazy

For receivers you can add:

Harman Kardon:
AVR-247
AVR-347
AVR-254/354/754 (coming spring/summer 2008)

Onkyo:
TX-SR605
TX-SR705
TX-SR875

Yamaha:
RX-V661

The receiver list is going to get very long as the feature will be much more common going forward.

Sale?! Man, how come I find out now...lol. Oh well, HD DVD lost already did they not? so I think it does not matter anymore. List has been updated. Thanks!
darkleafar is offline  
post #15 of 212 Old 04-16-2008, 10:06 AM
Newbie
 
malaka105's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 12
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I have a Sony 40v3000 and use a ps3 as my bluray player. I can not decide what I should do for my htib. I'm stuck on these:

Samsung
-AS720

Sony
-HT-7200DH (Available May)
or
-HT-SS2300

I've been told to go for the Samsung because it is capable of 7.1, but the 7200DH does come w/ a dvd player and it's a Sony and I was thinking that the Bravia Sync may come in handy. The ss2300 looked interesting. I was hoping for some expert opinions because I've never had a home theater set up before. I have a fairly small apartment but will eventually move to a larger space.
malaka105 is offline  
post #16 of 212 Old 04-16-2008, 04:01 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
darkleafar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 345
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 10
well malakala (please forgive me if I misspell, I'm in a pda. I'm no expert, but I do read a lot. the ss2000 sony series (predecessor of ss2300) had an issue where it would make an annoying "ssss" sound...I hope this will be corrected in this new one..the samsung is said not to be very friendly with the ps3..and that is the extent of my knowledge on those
darkleafar is offline  
post #17 of 212 Old 04-16-2008, 10:41 PM
Member
 
yungintl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 62
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by darkleafar View Post

well malakala (please forgive me if I misspell, I'm in a pda. I'm no expert, but I do read a lot. the ss2000 sony series (predecessor of ss2300) had an issue where it would make an annoying "ssss" sound...I hope this will be corrected in this new one..the samsung is said not to be very friendly with the ps3..and that is the extent of my knowledge on those

can someone elaborate on not being freindly with the ps3?
yungintl is offline  
post #18 of 212 Old 04-17-2008, 01:12 PM
Newbie
 
gadgetkid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: California, USA
Posts: 9
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Yes, additional info (e.g. #channels, power ratings) on each AVR/HTIB would be greatly appreciated.
gadgetkid is offline  
post #19 of 212 Old 04-17-2008, 01:47 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Doom878's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Miami, FL
Posts: 1,053
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I think the CT-100 should be notated of its form as not being a typical 5 satellite, sub, and receiver setup. Great list!
Doom878 is offline  
post #20 of 212 Old 04-17-2008, 06:01 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
darkleafar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 345
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by gadgetkid View Post

Yes, additional info (e.g. #channels, power ratings) on each AVR/HTIB would be greatly appreciated.

alright, ill get to it sometime this weekend, I ve been pretty busy with college! Thank you for your input
darkleafar is offline  
post #21 of 212 Old 04-17-2008, 06:02 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
darkleafar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 345
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doom878 View Post

I think the CT-100 should be notated of its form as not being a typical 5 satellite, sub, and receiver setup. Great list!

Since I will be adding info to every one of them, what you requested will consequently be done as well. Good point though, thanks ^_^
darkleafar is offline  
post #22 of 212 Old 04-17-2008, 06:06 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
darkleafar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 345
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by yungintl View Post

can someone elaborate on not being freindly with the ps3?

Look, that's my bad. That samsung model, when I looked it up, I saw a post of somebody who had it, and returned because he was having certain problems with the HDMI passing the audio correctly or something along those lines, I really cannot recall so I dont wanna make stuff up. I will tell you this, though. Research it, and if you cannot find throughout the internet anybody else complaining about it, then chances are that guy had bad luck and had a faulty model. But if you do find some stuff about it, then chances are whatever you find is one of the flaws of the system. good luck
darkleafar is offline  
post #23 of 212 Old 04-17-2008, 08:00 PM
Senior Member
 
Ecuadorian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Guayaquil
Posts: 227
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Darkleafar: This list is an excellent idea.

Many people, myself included, already own an old 5.1 HTIB with integrated DVD player and are now discovering that the thing doesn't have any kind of surround sound input (no optical, no coaxial), so we can't upgrade our disc players and still have surround sound.

Some of us in this category are torn between the two possible upgrade routes:

-Buy a new HTIB, this time without an integrated disc player
-Buy a receiver only, and keep the 5 satellite speakers from the old HTIB.

Unfortunately, there was no specific place in the AVS Forum for people facing this quandary ... which is curious, because player-less HTIBs are nothing but a receiver packed with a set of speakers. In fact, I think player-less HTIBs should not be put in the same category with HTIBs that integrate a player.

So, I just wanted to encourage you to keep up this work.

By the way, please take into consideration that some AVRs and player-less HTIBs, despite being able to accept a 5.1 or 7.1 PCM signal, can't process it. I think it is extremely important to exclude all units that can't process the signal and only pass it "as is" to the speakers. In these units the subwoofer will sound extremely quiet, because they do not apply the proper 10dB boost to the LFE channel and do not re-direct bass from the other 5 or 7 channels to the subwoofer.

Then, in receivers (both sold alone and as part of HTIBs) that can not process the PCM 5.1 or 7.1 signal, but instead only pass it directly to the Digital-to-Analog converters and to the amplifiers, users complain that "The bass is too quiet" or say that there is an "LFE bug".

These receivers often can't do surround-processing on a 5.1 PCM signal, either, meaning that even if a back channel is matrixed in the surround channels (as is the case in Ratatouille), they can't extract it, so you'll only hear 5.1... without bass.

You could mark those receivers with a note or a sign, avoiding frustration to users.

You can find a very good explanation in these links:
http://www.dolby.com/assets/pdf/tech_library/38_lfe.pdf
http://tyrorex.com/whats_new.html

And further info on the DTS and Dolby HD audio formats (very lenghty read but extremely informative):
http://www.dtsonline.com/media/DTS-HD_WhitePaper.pdf
http://www.dolby.com/assets/pdf/tech...whitepaper.pdf

I love this line in the Dolby white paper, about the future of HDMI audio:
"there will be no particular reason or benefit to decoding native audio bitstreams in the A/V receiver."

Kudos again and keep up the good work!

-Miguel Lescano
Ecuadorian is offline  
post #24 of 212 Old 04-17-2008, 09:07 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
darkleafar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 345
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ecuadorian View Post

Darkleafar: This list is an excellent idea.

Many people, myself included, already own an old 5.1 HTIB with integrated DVD player and are now discovering that the thing doesn't have any kind of surround sound input (no optical, no coaxial), so we can't upgrade our disc players and still have surround sound.

Some of us in this category are torn between the two possible upgrade routes:

-Buy a new HTIB, this time without an integrated disc player
-Buy a receiver only, and keep the 5 satellite speakers from the old HTIB.

Unfortunately, there was no specific place in the AVS Forum for people facing this quandary ... which is curious, because player-less HTIBs are nothing but a receiver packed with a set of speakers. In fact, I think player-less HTIBs should not be put in the same category with HTIBs that integrate a player.

So, I just wanted to encourage you to keep up this work.

By the way, please take into consideration that some AVRs and player-less HTIBs, despite being able to accept a 5.1 or 7.1 PCM signal, can't process it. I think it is extremely important to exclude all units that can't process the signal and only pass it "as is" to the speakers. In these units the subwoofer will sound extremely quiet, because they do not apply the proper 10dB boost to the LFE channel and do not re-direct bass from the other 5 or 7 channels to the subwoofer.

Then, in receivers (both sold alone and as part of HTIBs) that can not process the PCM 5.1 or 7.1 signal, but instead only pass it directly to the Digital-to-Analog converters and to the amplifiers, users complain that "The bass is too quiet" or say that there is an "LFE bug".

These receivers often can't do surround-processing on a 5.1 PCM signal, either, meaning that even if a back channel is matrixed in the surround channels (as is the case in Ratatouille), they can't extract it, so you'll only hear 5.1... without bass.

You could mark those receivers with a note or a sign, avoiding frustration to users.

You can find a very good explanation in these links:
http://www.dolby.com/assets/pdf/tech_library/38_lfe.pdf
http://tyrorex.com/whats_new.html

And further info on the DTS and Dolby HD audio formats (very lenghty read but extremely informative):
http://www.dtsonline.com/media/DTS-HD_WhitePaper.pdf
http://www.dolby.com/assets/pdf/tech...whitepaper.pdf

I love this line in the Dolby white paper, about the future of HDMI audio:
"there will be no particular reason or benefit to decoding native audio bitstreams in the A/V receiver."

Kudos again and keep up the good work!

I already knew about the fact that some receiver are not capable of boosting LFE to 10db, and about the signal not being processed correctly. However, what I have been trying to figure out is how to distinguish one from the other. The manufacturarer's websites usually will not give such information..However, I think it would be safe to assume that those systems labeled as "blu ray disc companion" or "blu ray disc matching" do process the PCM and boost the Low frequency to 10db, right? wouldnt this assumption theory be correct? could you help on deciphering how to know if the receiver processes PCM or not? that would really help. Anybody else knows how to know? thanks
darkleafar is offline  
post #25 of 212 Old 04-18-2008, 07:53 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Doom878's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Miami, FL
Posts: 1,053
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Onkyo released 3 new HTIB's. The story is on the main page. I believe the top line model will process sound via HDMI but there is no clear indication. In the slide show it seems that the base model doesn't support HDMI at all as I saw no connections. Anyone have more information on them?
Doom878 is offline  
post #26 of 212 Old 04-18-2008, 02:08 PM
Advanced Member
 
Carsfanatic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 602
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by darkleafar View Post

I already knew about the fact that some receiver are not capable of boosting LFE to 10db, and about the signal not being processed correctly. However, what I have been trying to figure out is how to distinguish one from the other. The manufacturarer's websites usually will not give such information..However, I think it would be safe to assume that those systems labeled as "blu ray disc companion" or "blu ray disc matching" do process the PCM and boost the Low frequency to 10db, right? wouldnt this assumption theory be correct? could you help on deciphering how to know if the receiver processes PCM or not? that would really help. Anybody else knows how to know? thanks

About the only way I have found thus far to find out for certain is to call the manufacturer and have them tell you/find out.
Carsfanatic is offline  
post #27 of 212 Old 04-18-2008, 03:03 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
darkleafar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 345
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 10
if they were just announced the information on them is probably minimal, but ill check it out, thanks for the info.
darkleafar is offline  
post #28 of 212 Old 04-20-2008, 05:23 PM
AVS Special Member
 
samsurd2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: North Texas
Posts: 3,450
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I just noticed that the new Yamaha RX-V663 isn't listed although the RX-V661 is. A sin of omission.
samsurd2 is offline  
post #29 of 212 Old 04-20-2008, 09:50 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
darkleafar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 345
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by samsurd2 View Post

I just noticed that the new Yamaha RX-V663 isn't listed although the RX-V661 is. A sin of omission.

Thank you! are you certain as to whether these two yamaha models accept multichannel pcm (not just stereo) correctly boost the LFE channel?
darkleafar is offline  
post #30 of 212 Old 04-21-2008, 09:56 AM
AVS Special Member
 
samsurd2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: North Texas
Posts: 3,450
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Yes and yes.
samsurd2 is offline  
Reply Home Theater In A Box

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off