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Just bought a Bose CineMate Series II ... did I make a mistake?

103K views 90 replies 35 participants last post by  cshepard 
#1 ·
As my name suggests, I'm quite the novice when it comes to all things audio.....


Yesterday, I went to futureshop to see about getting a HTIB for my 2 year old sony xbr4 and my recently purchased PS3.


I never in my life purchased a speaker, never was a big music person, and always settled for the built-in tv speakers...


Long story short, I ended up taking the Bose Cinemate Series ll , with the help of a salesman who highly recommended it. Bose also had a fancy display set-up for it, and the other brands did not ... I think this helped influence my decision in retrospect - giving me the impression that it was better.



Now, please understand, it's hard for me to distinguish quality - certainly, my initial reaction of the system is that it's far superior to what I had before it - ie: nothing! My gut is telling me that this is system is overpriced at 599....


As for the room it's in, it's around 13 x 15 in an upper unit of a duplex, with my sister and her family living below me... There is carpet, which absorbs some noise I think ... but generally, I can't have a system that will shake the entire building ... but I want one powerful enough that I can crank up on occasion, and be able to perform well even if the volume is not full blast.


Normally, I research and then buy, this time my impulse got the best of me...


If you believe there is a better bang for my buck out there, given my needs... your help would be great.
 
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#27 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by scorrpio /forum/post/18609411


A properly working product that includes a comprehensive manual generally does not need CS calls. I prefer to buy a product where most of the $$$ has gone into the product itself, not marketing and CS.


Good CS only serves to underscore the type of consumer Bose primarily targets: Lazy and uneducated, who would rather just walk into the store without a clue, swallow a salesman's pitch and pay the outlandish price rather than do 3-4 hours of research that would probably net him better gear at better prices. The kind of consumer who will rather dial CS than read through the manual. Heck, if a CS call does not answer Joe Schmoe's question, he just might (God forbid) go on the 'net and find what Bose exactly is.

Nice Bose bashing rant, but I was not talking about calling Bose's CS to see how to turn on or operate a Bose system,,, I was bringing up the Bose CS subject as it pertains to repairs and getting replacement and warrenty service done.


In the past I have needed repair or warrenty service on major audio brand products I have purchased, with Bose you dont need to take Indian language lessons to understand what their CS agents are saying,,,, with almost all the other companies your on hold for an hour and then talking with some guy in India that has never even heard of the product your calling about.


Cheers

Davyo
 
#28 ·
I'm not replying to bash or defend Bose although I do think they're pricey for what you get but since other companies CS were brought up I recently called Onkyo, Pioneer, and Samsung and was speaking with someone basically right after navigating the initial menu and if they weren't American they sure fooled me, and I've certainly had plenty of experience with the type of CS you are talking about but they were not electronics related except for Dell for my wife's PC, never again from them.
 
#29 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by davyo /forum/post/18608703


Is Bose overpriced,, yes and no,,,, as an example,, Bose is perhaps the ONLY company that does not outsource its Customer Support department,,, when you call Bose CS you get an actual english speaking person on the phone that is located in this country and knows about the product, and their CS department is very good at taking care of any problems,,, that of course is part of the Bose pricing,, when you buy the product your not "just" paying for the product itself.

Bose may be one of the only large electronics companies with USA CS, but that's not saying much because the best bang for the buck with audio is typically found in the smaller outfits that sell directly to the consumer. And these smaller outfits offer US support that I'm sure is vastly superior to the Bose support. Being able to call the president directly on cell phone is not uncommon.
 
#30 ·
Bose has a great marketing department. Bose has a terrific sales department. They can sell sand to Arabs. It's also the worst speaker in its price point ever made.

But they tell you it's the best, and have a wonderful marketing campaign. They are very smart, create a crappy product, but tell everyone it's the best thing since sliced bread. It's brilliant. If most companies did marketing like Bose, they would be so much better off. Palm could have used their marketing director.
 
#31 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by davyo /forum/post/18608703


Is Bose overpriced,, yes and no,,,,

Is Bose overpriced? Yes.


This really isn't even debatable.


Bose has the highest markup of any speaker manufacturer.

Bose uses the lowest quality parts per dollar spent of any manufacturer.

While Bose's support may by better than Sony, pretty much any internet direct speaker company will have significantly better (US based) support.


Bose is also designed purely for aesthetics, not sound quality. They are built to be small. That's it. It's very difficult to make tiny speakers sound good, which is one reason why Bose sounds horrible to anyone who has a decent ear. They are not capable of accurately reproducing a majority of frequencies, and that's precisely why Bose is the only company to not publish frequency response charts.
 
#32 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by cacophony777 /forum/post/18617098


Is Bose overpriced? Yes.


This really isn't even debatable.


Bose has the highest markup of any speaker manufacturer.

Bose uses the lowest quality parts per dollar spent of any manufacturer.

While Bose's support may by better than Sony, pretty much any internet direct speaker company will have significantly better (US based) support.


Bose is also designed purely for aesthetics, not sound quality. They are built to be small. That's it. It's very difficult to make tiny speakers sound good, which is one reason why Bose sounds horrible to anyone who has a decent ear. They are not capable of accurately reproducing a majority of frequencies, and that's precisely why Bose is the only company to not publish frequency response charts.

Hate to pick nits, and I'm not exactly a Bose fan myself, but some of your assertions likely are not true...

Quote:
Originally Posted by cacophony777 /forum/post/18617098


Bose has the highest markup of any speaker manufacturer.

Likely not. Some of the ultra-high end speakers out there probably have higher markup than Bose. Any speakers costing hundreds of thousands of dollars probably have a higher markup than Bose - though of course Bose speakers do carry a ridiculous price tag compared to their direct materials and manufacturing costs...

Quote:
Originally Posted by cacophony777 /forum/post/18617098


Bose uses the lowest quality parts per dollar spent of any manufacturer.

Possibly, but again difficult to know for sure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cacophony777 /forum/post/18617098


While Bose's support may by better than Sony, pretty much any internet direct speaker company will have significantly better (US based) support.

ID companies often have excellent support, but I've heard many horror stories as well. Thus far I've had positive experiences with ID companies but I know others have not been as fortunate. FWIW, Bose does have a reputation for having excellent support themselves. I agree that the huge markup on Bose products is not solely due to the cost of having great service, and that their service is not necessarily head and shoulders above that of many other audio companies. Still, I don't know that I'd say that "pretty much any internet direct speaker company will have significantly better US-based support."


Overall, is Bose overpriced? Absolutely, as long as you consider value to be based on sheer audio performance. However, if convenience, ease of use, aesthetics, brand recognition as a status symbol (however misplaced it may be), customer service and support, and peace of mind are also factors, I can see how some people gravitate toward Bose. Would I recommend Bose? Absolutely not. But in an environment where aesthetics and brand-recognition are king and the speakers are used for casual listening at low levels with little regard for excellence in sound reproduction, Bose speakers can make sense (though there are still far better sounding options at much lower prices).
 
#33 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by lalakersfan34 /forum/post/18617396


Likely not. Some of the ultra-high end speakers out there probably have higher markup than Bose. Any speakers costing hundreds of thousands of dollars probably have a higher markup than Bose - though of course Bose speakers do carry a ridiculous price tag compared to their direct materials and manufacturing costs...

I'd be surprised if one of the $3k Bose Lifestyle system used more than $150 worth of parts. That's 20x increase from parts to retail.


I have no idea what the parts cost for a typical $100k speaker (is it less than $5k?). But I do know that many internet direct companies sell speakers with only a 2.5x increase ($2k speaker with $800 in parts, for example).
 
#34 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by gtommers /forum/post/18567599


Yes, people who have never heard anything better appreciate Bose. They are, after all, slightly better than the speakers built into most low end TVs.



You'll notice that it is very hard to do a direct, side-by-side comparison with most Bose products. They usually have their own little demo station(with demo material that they've chosen) to check it out. They pay a lot of money to retailers to do this.


I'm not saying AudioDummy, or anyone, should not buy Bose. If you like how it sounds, buy it. Just be aware of what you're paying for. Bose makes their money based on the simplicity of their products, their name, and aggressive marketing.
 
#35 ·
Hello, I found this thread searching about the Bose Cinemate just like the original poster did.


I like to do my due diligence before buying too, and of course I've heard that Bose is overpriced as well.


However, this product fits my "needs" list almost perfectly. I have a big room, I want non-intrusive speakers, and I prefer a 2.1. Really, I value sound quality but the look of the room is far more important and the less I see of the speakers the better.


So, while many people have mentioned how poor of a choice the Bose are, only a few alternatives have been mentioned. Basically, I would really appreciate it if some people could recommend viable Bose cinemate II alternatives. That is, a 2.1 system that is good sounding, small, and in the same price range (or lower as everyone says it should be).
 
#36 ·
As an owner of a Bose V30 HTIB I've often wondered why so many well meaning audio enthusiasts thrash Bose. When I was 18 some 42 years ago, I remember Bose had a great reputation. The 901 speakers come to mind widely regarded as the best of the best. What happended over the years? Could it be because Bose doesn't publish their specs and this angers many audiophiles. Also I remember reading that Bose sued Consumer Reports magazine years ago over what Bose called an unfair review of one of their products and won! I think this decision was later overturned but the damage was already done. Have you ever tried to find a review of a Bose product in a A/V magazine or on the internet by a respected reviewer? They simply don't exist. Could the fallout from this lawsuit years ago have caused most if not all publications to turn their backs on Bose? Maybe someone could shed some more light on this whole Bose bashing thing.

In the meantime I'll be enjoying my Bose V30, its plenty good enough for me. Even listening in my large room with high ceilings, the sound effects are so strong (and that's with the bass setting at half) that I frequently miss some dialog in movies. That might not be a good thing, but at least I can always turn on the subtitles.

To AudioDummy, I wouldn't be in a big hurry to take back your Bose, especially if it sounds good to you, there just might be more to Bose than these forums would have you believe.


JWE103
 
#37 ·
I read this tread also. I Live in a townhouse and didn't want anything to crazy, but wanted to have something that sounds very good and excellent sound quality. I was sold on the Bose simply due to the size and design. Then I found these forums and held off thinking I was making a mistake. I looked at other stuff but didn't want a huge receiver, another full size remote I just wanted it to hook up easy and sound clean. Bose was having a sale on factory renewed stuff and after hearing they had a 30 return policy I figured what do I have to loose and I went and got a factory renewed cinemate 2. I know people will not like to hear this but this thing is NOT going back. Sounds much better then I was expecting and for the price I and very happy with it. Could I have spent more and got something better? Maybe, but for the price and for how this sounds I am very happy I rolled the dice. I would go buy it all over again.


I went into this looking to improve the way my TV sounded. This really surpassed my expectations.


Info you get online is a small percentage of people actually using the equipment. 9 out of 10 people on here will tell you to stay away from Bose, yet they are still in business. If the stuff was that bad I'm sure by now they wouldn't be.
 
#38 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by freezy74 /forum/post/18907107


I read this tread also. I Live in a townhouse and didn't want anything to crazy, but wanted to have something that sounds very good and excellent sound quality. I was sold on the Bose simply due to the size and design. Then I found these forums and held off thinking I was making a mistake. I looked at other stuff but didn't want a huge receiver, another full size remote I just wanted it to hook up easy and sound clean. Bose was having a sale on factory renewed stuff and after hearing they had a 30 return policy I figured what do I have to loose and I went and got a factory renewed cinemate 2. I know people will not like to hear this but this thing is NOT going back. Sounds much better then I was expecting and for the price I and very happy with it. Could I have spent more and got something better? Maybe, but for the price and for how this sounds I am very happy I rolled the dice. I would go buy it all over again.


I went into this looking to improve the way my TV sounded. This really surpassed my expectations.


Info you get online is a small percentage of people actually using the equipment. 9 out of 10 people on here will tell you to stay away from Bose, yet they are still in business. If the stuff was that bad I'm sure by now they wouldn't be.

How much did you pay for the factory renewed bose cinemate series II?
 
#40 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by freezy74 /forum/post/18907107


Info you get online is a small percentage of people actually using the equipment. 9 out of 10 people on here will tell you to stay away from Bose, yet they are still in business. If the stuff was that bad I’m sure by now they wouldn’t be.

Yes, they are still in business and doing very well I'm sure. They spend a tremendous amount on marketing and most people who buy Bose are upgrading from the speakers built into their TV. Nobody is denying that Bose isn't a big jump up from speakers built into your TV.


But here's the problem...


A $3500 Bose Lifestyle system is a complete turd compared to the $300 Energy Take 5.1 in terms of sound quality. Think about that for a moment, and then maybe you'll understand why Bose bashers are so vocal.


Most people who buy Bose never discover this because they don't bother to comparison shop (or even research alternatives on the internet). The people that do bother to do the research are precisely the individuals who frequent this forum.


Here's an analogy:


Imagine if Chevy was the only car company to advertise, and their only car is the Chevy Aveo, which they sell for $195,0000. Their slogan is "Better Cars through Research". Most people have never driven any car, so when they buy this popular Aveo model they're happy (because it's great compared to having to walk). But had they done some research they would have discovered that the Toyota Corolla is better and only $16,000. Or they could have bought a Porsche 911 for $80,000 or perhaps a nice Lexus or Mercedes for $70,000.
 
#41 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by KickItUpANotch /forum/post/18903903


Hello, I found this thread searching about the Bose Cinemate just like the original poster did.


I like to do my due diligence before buying too, and of course I've heard that Bose is overpriced as well.


However, this product fits my "needs" list almost perfectly. I have a big room, I want non-intrusive speakers, and I prefer a 2.1. Really, I value sound quality but the look of the room is far more important and the less I see of the speakers the better.


So, while many people have mentioned how poor of a choice the Bose are, only a few alternatives have been mentioned. Basically, I would really appreciate it if some people could recommend viable Bose cinemate II alternatives. That is, a 2.1 system that is good sounding, small, and in the same price range (or lower as everyone says it should be).

Bose bashing threads are so entertaining,,,some of the stuff that gets said really makes me laugh.

Anyhow,,, if your happy with the Cinemate keep it and pay no attention to the bashing.

I tried out the Cinemate ll in my house and I was impressed with how good it sounded and looked.

And you are correct about getting recomendations for a Cinemate alternative, below is a recomondation for small speakers, but thats it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cacophony777 /forum/post/18910116


Want cheaper/better alternatives to Bose? Need them to still be tiny? http://www.orbaudio.com/

OK,,,, you recomended some small Orb speakers, thats fine,, but I think your missing the point,,,, the Bose Cinemate is a small complete system with a sub that does not require a receiver or anything else and is made to emulate a surround sound with just the 2 speakers and sub (opps sorry,, I meant bass modual).

So recomend a small steath like system that does the same thing ???


Cheers

Davyo
 
#42 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by davyo /forum/post/18910545


OK,,,, you recomended some small Orb speakers, thats fine,, but I think your missing the point,,,, the Bose Cinemate is a small complete system with a sub that does not require a receiver or anything else and is made to emulate a surround sound with just the 2 speakers and sub (opps sorry,, I meant bass modual).

So recomend a small steath like system that does the same thing ???

Often the receiver size isn't nearly as big of a concern as it can often be concealed within an entertainment cabinet. It's a small price to pay for much better sound and more features/upgradeability (for far less money).
 
#43 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by cacophony777 /forum/post/18910604


Often the receiver size isn't nearly as big of a concern as it can often be concealed within an entertainment cabinet. It's a small price to pay for much better sound and more features/upgradeability (for far less money).

Thats your recomondation,,, get an entertainment cabinet and stick a receiver in it,,,, you also left out the part about running all the wires.


Hate to disagree with you but OFTEN having a receiver and an entertainment cabinet is a BIG concern.


As an example,,, just one example I might add:


More than a few of us have flat panels that are wall mounted and dont want an entertainment cabinet or a receiver or wires running around the room,, we want a nice clean stealth install which the Bose Cinemate provides,,,, like I said, thats just one example.


So again, the question to you is,,, recomend an alternative to the Bose Cinemate,,,, with all the bashing and telling someone why they should not get the Cinemate are you unable to suggest a viable option ?


Cheers

Davyo
 
#44 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by davyo /forum/post/18910759


So again, the question to you is,,, recomend an alternative to the Bose Cinemate,,,, with all the bashing and telling someone why they should not get the Cinemate are you unable to suggest a viable option ?

Why do I need to? My point was Bose sounds awful and that you can get better sounding equipment for 1/10th the price. Everybody knows that the one and only advantage Bose has is that it's small. If somebody wants to choose aesthetics over everything else it's their choice, but they should be aware of the huge tradeoff they're making.
 
#46 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by davyo /forum/post/18910759


So again, the question to you is,,, recomend an alternative to the Bose Cinemate,,,, with all the bashing and telling someone why they should not get the Cinemate are you unable to suggest a viable option ?

Oh, and how about this:
http://www.orbaudio.com/index.asp?Pa...PROD&ProdID=73


Add the sub for $300 and you'll have a complete $600 2.1 system that's smaller than the Bose but with vastly better sound and build quality.
 
#47 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by cacophony777 /forum/post/18911005


Why do I need to? My point was Bose sounds awful and that you can get better sounding equipment for 1/10th the price. Everybody knows that the one and only advantage Bose has is that it's small. If somebody wants to choose aesthetics over everything else it's their choice, but they should be aware of the huge tradeoff they're making.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cacophony777 /forum/post/18911039


BTW, this likely much better than the Bose Cinemate:

http://www.amazon.com/Logitech-Z-230.../dp/B0002SQ2P2


I mean, geez, it actually has a "Response Bandwidth - 35Hz - 20kHz"
Quote:
Originally Posted by cacophony777 /forum/post/18912003


Oh, and how about this:
http://www.orbaudio.com/index.asp?Pa...PROD&ProdID=73


Add the sub for $300 and you'll have a complete $600 2.1 system that's smaller than the Bose but with vastly better sound and build quality.

Just as I thought,,, your trashing the Bose Cinemate and then when asked to recomend a real alternative you post links for computer speakers,,,,,, and yea, I already know what your guna say, your reply post will read "those PC speakers sound better than the Cinemate",,,, there, I beat ya to it..


You suffer from the same problem most other Bose bashers suffer from,,, you have never owned or had a Bose in your house and made a real true judgment based on personal hands on experience.


The Bose Cinemate fills a need for what it is, does and how it is designed, you are able to bash but cant recomend something better in the same form factor and design.


Ohhh well,,,,, Im wasting my typing skills,,,, there is no changing a Bose basher as they are not open to anything other than mindless bashing.


I could care less what kind of paper Bose uses to make their speakers from, and I could care less if they post their speaker specs or not,,, what matters as how a system sounds in your house and while I dont own a Bose I will say some of their systems sound pretty darn good and they do fill a nich in their design,,,,,, Ok,,, Im done now.


Continue with your Bose bashing,,, have fun with that.


Cheers

Davyo
 
#48 ·
Yes you made a mistake...


I guess i'll be the first top post this old and sadly still relevant site portraying one guy's opinions and facts about bose. I feel there are more facts than opinions FWIW.


Now for speaker alternatives(you should add a model sub as budget permits to the pairs):
Energy Take Classic 5.1 set
Polk RM705 5.1 set
Infinity TSS-500CHR 5.1 set
Klipsch HD 300 5.1 set

Pair of Aperion Intimus 4B speakers

Pair of Ascend CBM-170SE speakers

Pair of Axiom M2 speakers

Pair of BIC FH65B speakers

Pair of laughably high value Dayton B652 speakers

Pair of Def Tech 800 speakers

Pair of ED A3-5TC speakers

Pair of Energy CB-5 speakers

Pair of HSU HB-1 speakers

Pair of HTD Level 2 speakers

Pair of Monitor R90HD speakers

Pair of Polk Monitor 30 Speakers

Pair of Polk TSi100 speakers

Pair of PSB Image B4 speakers

Pair of SVS SBS-02 Speakers

Tweak City Audio Gizmo+WAF-1 package designed and sold by our very own craigsub


Subwoofers:
BIC F12

pretty much any Dayton Subwoofer , Budget Price and Performance to suit

Somebody pitch in here, I don't know of many budget value subs


Receivers:
Onkyo 308
Onkyo 508
Harmon Kardon HK3390
Pioneer VSX-820-k
Yamaha RX-V665BL
Denon AVR 591


I personally would stretch the budget to accommodate a pair of Ascend CMT-340 speakers and an onkyo 508 receiver.

To stay in your budget go with the 308+energy 5.1 set


Some things you should consider:


even though a receiver says 5.1 it can output 2.0,2.1,3.0,3.1,5.0,5.1.


You don not need a subwoofer to have deeper bass than a bose bass module, even at this price range.


I think every pair of speakers I listed can be used in a larger matched set in the future.


Monoprice/Bluejeans/Ebay/Amazon are good sources to get cabling. Keep in mind that anything digital does not need any fancy technology, the signal travels at the speed of light anyways. Analog cables would best be gotten at bluejeans or monoprice as quality from amazon and ebay can be sketchy at times.


16gauge speaker wire will be plenty for any application you may run across and again this needs no fancy technology to work.

Just because a speaker is not tiny does not mean it doesn't have a place in your room, many of these bookshelf speakers are gorgeous on their own.


To those people who say that sometimes a receiver has nowhere to go and that they like a clean look, where did you put the dvd player? Bluray player? cable box? Gaming Console?


A bar speaker may work great for your application but there is absolutely zero expandability and the simulated surround just doesn't cut it in some room layouts.


PM me if you want more information or detailed instructions on how to set any of these systems up.
 
#51 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by davyo /forum/post/18912605


Ohhh well,,,,, Im wasting my typing skills,,,, there is no changing a Bose basher as they are not open to anything other than mindless bashing.

Mindless bashing? I have an educated opinion that's based on having extended listening sessions with a number of different Bose systems (both in stores and at various friend's houses).


Frankly, there are only a few logical explanations for your pro Bose posts:


(1) You sell Bose

(2) You've never heard anything other than Bose

(3) You own Bose and are trying to justify your purchase

(4) You need to get your hearing checked


Which is it Davyo? All of the above?
 
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