Should I return my new Bose Cinemate? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 14 Old 12-28-2012, 07:35 PM - Thread Starter
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My girlfriend got me a nice Bose system this year for Christmas. I got it all hooked up and I think it sounds wonderful. I have a 6 year old Sony Grand Wega and I figured my optical out on my TV could pass through the digital audio from all my devices. Well as many of you know that is near impossible and currently I have it hooked up to my TV's analog audio out while I await an optical switch to arrive in the mail. Well long story short my research about optical audio out on TVs led me to the realization that my system is not truly capable of 5.1 surround sound (I guess it can mimic it?) and that realization led to further reading and I realized that you need 5 speakers for DD 5.1 surround sound and my system can never be upgraded to that. Now let me be clear, I am very happy and impressed with my Bose system but the inability for future upgrades is somewhat troubling. As I see my living room now I can only imagine having a 5.1 setup if the back speakers are wireless, so that begs the question; Is there such a thing as wireless speakers for a surround sound system? If so what is the qualify like? How are they powered? What are any other important details I need to know about them?

Basically, if it is possible to have a 5.1 setup with the wireless rear speakers AND great sound quality then I will probably return my Bose and get setup with a 5.1 system with wireless speakers OR if the technology is close but not quite refined then I could return my Bose and setup a 3.1 and move to a 5.1 when technology catches up with my needs. If the wireless technology isn't possible or has quality issues then I will just keep my Bose, because like I said before; I really like the way it sounds and I can never see myself have 5 speakers unless the rear ones are wireless. Thanks in advance for any help that you guys provide me.
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post #2 of 14 Old 12-28-2012, 09:17 PM
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I'd return the Bose imitation sound system thingie and opt for real components and speakers. smile.gif How would your girlfriend feel if you did that? Girls are sold on Bose for some reason, advertising or sheer quantity in the marketplace seems to convince them easily wink.gif

Surrounds are more for side placement than rear in a 5 ch setup, although not impossible if you can't place the surrounds to the sides. Why would it be so hard to run speaker wire? Might be easier than powering the speakers (there are some battery powered ones, though).

There are wireless adapters like these http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=300-580, which you could use with active (self-amplified) speakers. I have a pair of subs with wireless units (not these, mine are built into the subs). Sound quality is fine for subs, think it's easier for subs, though; think I've read that sub frequencies have less issues with rf interference, no experience myself other than with my subs, though.

What kind of budget are you thinking about?

Oh, and search is your friend in the forums, most things have been talked about http://www.avsforum.com/newsearch/?search=wireless+surrounds&type=all

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post #3 of 14 Old 12-28-2012, 09:27 PM
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Optical out on most, it not all, new tv's will only give you true 5.1 if the source is from the internal ATSC tuner of the tv. 5.1 is not possible from an external source, even with HDMI. The fact that your tv is 5 years old re-enforces that. The only way to get 5.1 is running your audio thru an avr first and then sending the video signal to the tv. Sorry, but Bose doesn't get a lot of love around here. 5.1 is 2 front speakers (R and L), a center speaker (C), two side speakers (R and L, mistakenly called rear speakers), and a sub-woofer. There are wireless systems that work fairly well. But by wireless, that means that there is no wired connection to the main unit (receiver). The side speakers still need to have an electrical outlet so that the wireless receiver has power and both speakers are wired to that. I would start to build an audio system that can be easily expanded as your needs change, wireless works but has many more limitations than a wired system.
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post #4 of 14 Old 12-28-2012, 11:19 PM - Thread Starter
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@lovinthehd- I'm sure she would be annoyed but it wouldn't be a bid deal if it was returned, she had a very nice Christmas so she would want me to get what I want. As for wireless over wired: I don't want to have to try and run wire through my walls and having visible wires is not acceptable. Powering the wireless rear speakers wouldn't be a problem if they could be plugged into the wall; my couch is up against a wall and hiding that power cord would be very easy. I really like the way the Bose system looks and to me that is important. I don't want people to walk into the room and notice all these speakers and cords but rather just notice the great sound when a movie is playing. The Bose system is small and blends in well with just having 2 speakers so I would want a setup where the front 3 speakers are small and the rear speakers are small AND wireless, that way I could set them up in such a way that they don't stand out.

As for budget, I would want to stay under $900 for the total cost of the system. I guess in a perfect world it would be a receiver that could handle at least 4 HDMI inputs, 5 small speakers and have 2 of them wireless and a nice sub. I would also want 1 remote to rule them all. So 1 remote for the system that could also control apple tv, cable box, blu-ray player, and etc.

So maybe this receiver paired with this subwoofer. Then I just need 5 speakers and if those conversion adapters work then my options would vastly expand. Can you buy just 4 speakers and 1 center speaker without a subwoofer or receiver? Seems like the speakers always come paired with the other stuff making it difficult to build the system exactly how you want it.

Like I said my couch is up against a wall, so my "rear" speakers would really be at same depth as the couch; one to the left and one to the right. It sounds like this would be the optimal setup?
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post #5 of 14 Old 12-29-2012, 08:07 AM
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On the remote front, look at Harmony. They are great remotes and easy to configure using a computer. Our Harmony One controls a TV, AVR, calble box, four disc players, Roku, AppleTV and an HDMI switch. (With AppleTV, we also use an iPad remote app.) The Harmony One and the newer Touch model cost in the $200-250 range. You can get cheaper models, but they control fewer devices.

You should be able to put together a nice system to replace the Bose, although $900 is a tight budget. Have you considered in-wall speakers for the surrounds?
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post #6 of 14 Old 12-29-2012, 10:29 AM - Thread Starter
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Okay here is the setup I am considering. If someone wouldn't mind letting me know if this will all function together I would really appreciate it!

Reciever
If I am playing a bluray with 7.1 sound will it just convert it to 5.1, if so will there be a problem with quality?
Some of the speakers I have listed below only have a 100w max, will this reciever harm them because it is capable of more power per speaker?

Subwoofer
Pretty straight forward here, unless someone has had a terrible experience with this one in the past.

Center Speaker
Good foundation for the 5.1 system, would you agree?

Front Speakers
I want them to match the Sub and Center Speakers so this should work, can be upgraded as time goes on.

Back Speakers
Really want some that are white so they will blend into the wall that my couch is up against and where these speakers will be setup at, is this a good choice, is there a better choice for SMALL white rear speakers in this price range?

Wireless Kit
I can hide the powersource to the kit and this seems to have good reviews, no?

Now can someone link me up to a wireless remote that can run apple tv, cable box, bluray player, AVR, and anything else I may purchase? Also need a link for WHITE adjustable speaker stands for the white rear speakers, anyone got a link?
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post #7 of 14 Old 12-29-2012, 11:26 AM
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Matching your front sound stage is always best because of timbre matching. The sides are ok but they only have a driver, no tweeter, so you're going to lose some depth. But that might not be that big of a deal to you because most of your audio comes from the front sound stage.

The receiver seems adequate and yes, it will play just fine without and noticeable loss of fidelity if you only have 5 speakers connected instead of 7.

I don't know about the wireless kit. I've never used wireless speakers because I've carefully hidden the cables for the sides and I've just heard about too many issues with the wireless transceivers.

BIslander mentioned the use of a Harmony remote and agree. I have an old Harmony 880 that works just fine with my Yamaha receiver, Panasonic blu-ray player, LG LCD, and my AppleTV2. They can be a bit of a pain to program initially but there's lots of help in the Remote forum.

You'll just have to Google around for white speaker stands that will fit your sides.

Our couch is up against the wall opposite the HTS so I have my side speakers equidistant to either side of the couch at the same height as the front R/L speakers, which is just a bit above ear level when sitting on the couch. The sides are also about 2' further apart from each other than the fronts (you want your fronts at least 6'-10' apart).
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post #8 of 14 Old 12-29-2012, 03:15 PM
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Not sure what makes the aesthetics better with the wireless sender/receiver, cables from the receiver unit to the speakers, plus power cords for the wireless units and for the powered speakers vs a simple speaker wire from the avr to each speaker that can easily be tucked along baseboards, under rugs, etc. You can even get speaker wire in white if you want. Also saw this on the rocketfish site http://www.rocketfishproducts.com/products/home-theater/RF-WHTIB.html

Personally I just wouldn't buy Pyle anything, and even in a surround would want just a bit more than they offer. Not sure about white speakers, wouldn't want one. There's always a spray can.

I use Harmony remotes, easy to setup on a computer altho with some gear you need to do some extra tweaking, just don't get the cheapest model, it sucks. I have a 600, 650 and got my brother a 700 (for differing number of units to control; 4, 5 & 6 respectively); these all work well and are in the $40-70 range. I had trouble with my Harmony 600 & 650 with my Pioneer 919 (which died after two years), which I thought might have been an anomaly but then had some similar issues in setting up my brother's Pioneer 1020. YMMV.

By matching sub to fronts hope you just mean the aesthetics of their box design, otherwise there's no "matching" necessary.

Again, in a 5ch system, they surrounds are preferable on the sides (I've also done them as "rears" but prefer the side position but the room sometimes won't permit).

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post #9 of 14 Old 12-29-2012, 04:17 PM - Thread Starter
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@LovintheHD- Let me start by saying thanks for all your help. Upon further consideration I think I will go with these speakers for the rears. My motivation for the wireless kit is because my couch is up against a wall with a side table on either side of the couch, so I could have the wireless receivers and power cords completely hidden underneath the couch, not to mention it would be very easy to do albeit very expensive compared to wire. I might consider a WIRED option but that would require either getting up into the attic (**** you) or running it under the carpet (damn really?!?!) As for using white wire and hiding it along the wall; this wouldn't be good enough as I would know its there and it would piss me off when I look at it. As for the baseboard idea; have you ever removed a baseboard? Trying to take them off and put them back on without damanging the wall or the board is extremely difficult on an older home so I just don't think that will work for me. Honestly I know doing a wire in the attic and out the wall is the "right" way to do it I just want to avoid the hassle. Is there an easy way to run it through the wall? Maybe I am missing something but I imagine trying to guess where to drop the wire in the wall from the attic and attaching a big magnet to the end of the wire so I can find it through the drywall then putting a plate over the hole. I would of course need to do this twice (once in the front and once in the back). Is there a better way?
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post #10 of 14 Old 12-29-2012, 11:06 PM
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I don't know how your room is setup but what I did was run the side speaker wires thru the wall to the outside patio. I used a nice little grommet and wall plate on the inside which is hidden quite nicely behind the sub. I then ran the wires underneath the outside wooden frame of the sliding glass door and then around the corner of the patio wall to the wall opposite the tv. Punched a small hole in the wall and used the same grommet/wall plate that I did for the exit hole. The wires are now behind the couch with plenty of extra room for adjustments on the speaker locations. I wrapped the the wires on the outside and made them look as nice as possible. You can see the wires if you're on the patio but they don't look bad and aren't in the way exiting or entering the sliding glass door. I'm like you, the thought of doing it correctly by running the wires thru the ceiling and down the wall is not a project that I wanted to take on and wireless, for me, was not an option either for various reasons. Oh, and by matching the fronts, I'm referring to the R/L/C channels only, not the sub. You can mix and match virtually any sub. Timbre matching refers to the acoustical design of the speakers and cabinetry.
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post #11 of 14 Old 12-30-2012, 12:02 AM - Thread Starter
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Well the more I think about it the more I think I can just run it under the carpet... Is there a certain type of wire I need or will any speaker wire do? Also, this is probably a dumb question but will the speaker wire also power the units?
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post #12 of 14 Old 12-30-2012, 01:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scared by AV View Post

Well the more I think about it the more I think I can just run it under the carpet... Is there a certain type of wire I need or will any speaker wire do? Also, this is probably a dumb question but will the speaker wire also power the units?

You need an appropriate gauge of wire for the length needed. Here's a good article http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm#connect. A standard passive speaker will get all it needs from the amp via the speaker wire. If you're using an active (self-amplified) speaker then you would feed it a signal from your preamp with a line-level rca cable usually.

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post #13 of 14 Old 12-30-2012, 03:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lovinthehd View Post

You need an appropriate gauge of wire for the length needed. Here's a good article http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm#connect. A standard passive speaker will get all it needs from the amp via the speaker wire. If you're using an active (self-amplified) speaker then you would feed it a signal from your preamp with a line-level rca cable usually.

I have ordered these speakers, would you mind telling me what kind of wire I will need to hook them up with, and is there anything else I will need to set them up? Thanks in advance!
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post #14 of 14 Old 12-30-2012, 06:43 PM
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16AWG will work unless they are going to be more than about 35'-40' from the receiver if you run them at 8 ohms.
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