Please help! Issue with my Yamaha YHT-397 setup - Page 3 - AVS Forum
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post #61 of 83 Old 04-09-2013, 01:07 PM
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These are the specs of my 5 speakers. Since the Frequency Range is 90Hz on both the Center and 4 other speakers would the 80 Hz Crossover be fine?
Type Acoustic suspension
Speaker
Satellite 2.5” Cone woofer + 1/2” dome tweeter
Center 2.5” Cone woofer x 2 + 1/2” dome tweeter
Frequency Range
Satellite 90 Hz - 50,000 Hz
Center 90 Hz - 50,000 Hz
Impedance 6 ohms
Nominal Input 30 W
Maximum Input 100 W
Sensitivity (dB/2.83v. 1m)
Satellite 82 dB
Center 85 dB
Crossover Frequency
Satellite 4000 Hz
Center 4000 Hz
Dimension (H x W x D)
Satellite 6-3/8” x 4” x 4” (160 x 100 x 100 mm)
Center 4” x 11-7/8” x 4” (100 x 300 x 100 mm)
Weight
Satellite 1.6 lbs (0.7 kg)
Center 2.6 lbs (1.2 kg)
Magnetic Shielding Yes
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post #62 of 83 Old 04-09-2013, 02:42 PM
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The speaker specs are not that useful because you don't know how the frequency responses were obtained/tested (anechoic chamber, etc) and the conditions under which they were obtained. The drivers are small (2.5") so if you force them to use 80Hz as a x-over (which is "normal" for better speakers with larger drivers) you will lose the response of the sats because more energy will be required to respond to the lower frequencies before the x-over threshold is hit. It's a trade-off with the smaller satellite drivers. Increasing the x-over will force the sub to pick up the lower frequencies at the lower end of the sats response but it will free the sats to become more efficient at the frequencies above the x-over because they will have more energy to produce the upper frequencies more clearly. The trade-off for better frequency of the sats is a loss of the bass response because frequencies above 80Hz are being played thru the sub. As long as you don't hear dialog coming from the sub, you should be ok. This is the biggest problem of any HTiB and the speakers that come with them. You can't just look at the speaker frequency response alone and compare them across the board and assume one is going to sound better than another. You have to make adjustments once you understand what you have based mostly on what is going to be acceptable and sound good to you. If you want to stay with bookshelf-sized speakers, there are options available to you to upgrade your speakers because it's not the receiver, it's the speakers. For example, MLT-2s would sound better because they have 4.5" drivers, 1" tweeters, and a 10" sub driver. With those, you could probably set your x-over at 80Hz and probably use the YPAO auto-cal with much better success. Good speakers can make a mediocre receiver sound great but poor speakers can make a great receiver sound like crap.
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post #63 of 83 Old 04-09-2013, 03:23 PM
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If you want to identify the proper crossover, get a calibration disc with bass sweeps. Avia and the AIX HD Sampler both have sweeps. A sweep plays down the full range of frequencies for each channel. When you have bass management engaged, you will hear the crossover from speaker to sub. If it is smooth with no loss of SPL, then you are fine. But, if there's a hole where the volume drops as the sweep approaches the crossover, you'll know the crossover is too low for that particular speaker. In my system, the sweeps showed L/C/R are just fine at 80Hz, but my surrounds need to be set at 100Hz.
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post #64 of 83 Old 04-09-2013, 06:06 PM
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I don't think the RX-V373 has that specific of a control for the front sound stage and the side x-overs. I could be wrong though. My RX-V371 doesn't (unless I've missed something). Again, my point about auto-cal for speakers of this size. A cal disk may be better for Justin and just do it manually.
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post #65 of 83 Old 04-09-2013, 06:11 PM
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It may not. My Denon doesn't either, actually, just a single global crossover. The bass sweeps simply show where the crossover belongs. The end user decides how to use the information.
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post #66 of 83 Old 04-13-2013, 01:09 PM
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Does the DRC on this Receiver (HTR-3065) only work if you select straight as the sound option? I've had it set to all three (max, stand, and min/auto) and can't tell a difference. It was a Dolby source but I had the sound option on Adventure. Is it supposed to light up on the front panel?

Also, I've been trying to get into this system but just feel like it's lacking something or I'm missing some general setting to make it sound better. I usually keep it on Action Game for playing PS3 Games and I do like the sound, a lot actually. I have the PS3 set up for LPCM over HDMI to Receiver with Adventure as the sound mode and when I watch any movie the sound seems like there is no punch, not like there is with games. I'm constantly trying to switch settings to see which sounds better or going into the PS3 settings and switching from PCM to Bitstream. PCM sounds soooooo much better so I leave it. I watched Ghostbuster's on Blu-Ray last night, I know it's not a good reference, and it sounded terrible. Couldn't really hear much without turning it way up. On the other hand the SFX were nice. Now with Directv, I have a digital coaxial cable from DVR to receiver. I haven't been blown away by anything with Directv Content until last night. After Ghostbusters was over I switched the Receiver to AV2 (directv) and started watching tv. My Wife wanted to watch "The Presence" on Showtime HD. It was late and I didn't feel like arguing. I switched the Receiver's Sound Mode from Adventure to Standard and turned it down to -23.5dB. Ghostbusters was on Adventure and at -10dB and could barely hear much. I was blown away with the sound on the Presence! Everything sounded like I was in an actual movie theater and what I expected to hear with Blu-Rays. I could hear everything with plenty of punch and SFX and surround sounds were amazing. What gives? Keep in mind, the Presence was not good, at all. Straight to Showtime type of a movie.
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post #67 of 83 Old 04-13-2013, 01:34 PM
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The volume of the PS3 PCM output is known to be down several dB. I don't own one, but I've read that using the diamond on the controller to increase the output can help. As for using Adventure with Blu-rays, why? DRC is done as part of the Dolby decoding process before DSPs are applied. The device doing the decoding applies the DRC.
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post #68 of 83 Old 04-13-2013, 02:13 PM
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For us, we don't use any DSP settings at all, for anything. Straight all the way. I personally don't like artificial processing. If you like Adventure/Action Game for your PS3, then you can program the receiver to use that audio setting and then when you switch to tv or a blu-ray, you can have it set to Straight (or any other DSP if you prefer). I would pick a setting for your inputs and leave at that for a couple of weeks to see how it plays and give your ears a chance to acclimate to the setting. If it's not to your liking, then try another one. But don't keep jumping back and forth because you'll confuse yourself. Also keep in mind that not all audio is the same for all sources. Some games and/or movies may have a better audio track than another one so there will be another source of variability.
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post #69 of 83 Old 04-13-2013, 08:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIslander View Post

The volume of the PS3 PCM output is known to be down several dB. I don't own one, but I've read that using the diamond on the controller to increase the output can help. As for using Adventure with Blu-rays, why? DRC is done as part of the Dolby decoding process before DSPs are applied. The device doing the decoding applies the DRC.

I usually use Standard but I must've put it on Adventure for something a TV show and forgot to change it back to Standard. It's been on Adventure for the last two weeks.

So if it's PCM there will be no DRC done on the Receiver? Everything on Directv is Dolby Digital and the DRC is on either Standard, Min/Auto, or Max but no icon on front panel. Read the manual front to back and it should have the DRC icon on the Receiver. I think I read the same thing about the output on the PS3. Is it the setting called Volume Control that ranges from -3 to +3? Thanks for all your input.
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post #70 of 83 Old 04-13-2013, 08:23 PM
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Correct. No DRC with PCM. You would need to apply DRC in the PS3, since it is doing the decoding. (Actually, most people don't apply DRC except for unusual circumstances such as late night viewing when you don't want to wake others.) But, if you are going to do it, the device doing the Dolby decoding is the one that needs to apply the DRC.
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post #71 of 83 Old 04-14-2013, 11:00 AM
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Is the receiver that comes with this system, HTR-3065, the same as the RX-V373 Receiver?
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post #72 of 83 Old 04-14-2013, 11:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin Sullins View Post

Is the receiver that comes with this system, HTR-3065, the same as the RX-V373 Receiver?

Yes it is. I think I mentioned that to you some time ago wink.gif.
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post #73 of 83 Old 04-14-2013, 01:45 PM
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Very odd thing happened that I can't figure out. I've always had my PS3 set up as PCM and when I play Blu-Ray it says PCM and on PS3 Games it says Dolby Digital on Receiver. I know for a fact that every time I've played Lego Star Wars it always says Dolby Digital on the Receiver. Today it just PCM. What happened that it would change? I didn't change anything.
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post #74 of 83 Old 04-14-2013, 03:15 PM
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I don't have a PS3 so I'm not familiar with their setup and maintenance but the receiver should be displaying what it is receiving, so maybe it's an issue with the PS3?
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post #75 of 83 Old 04-15-2013, 07:57 PM
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So, after messing with Sound Settings I've found that Straight sounds the best. I was watching the Matrix on HBO HD last night and it sounded like crap. It was on Standard and I had to turn the Volume up to -10dB. I'm sure most of it was the movie but the bass/sub was so boomy I couldn't take it. Sub was calibrated at -10dB by YPAO and the volume is at half. I turned the channel and watched the last thirty minutes of Spartacus: War, or something to that effect and I was amazed at how it sounded. Really good surround effects with all the swords clinking and clanking in the background and to the side. The overall sound was great too. I turned the volume down to -16dB and it was plenty loud. It was still on Standard. I then switched it to Straight and it sounded even better.

The last two weeks it's been on either Standard or Adventure for Directv content. I've watched Prometheus, the Campaign, the Matrix, Shameless, and various other titles with it on those DSP Settings and it sounded like crap on all of the movies. I couldn't hear much without turning it up and it didn't sound "clean" at all. Well, last night, after switching to Straight, I tested those same movies and there were no issues and it actually sounded like I had intended it to sound when I bought this system. I did however, keep the Enhancer on. I'm not sure what it's doing exactly but it sounds better with it on. It says it's Compressed Music Enhancer in the manual.

Also, does the -10dB on the Sub's Trim Level sound correct? I think it goes from -10 to +10dB. Crossover was calibrated at 80Hz but I changed it to 90Hz.
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post #76 of 83 Old 04-15-2013, 09:13 PM
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As I mentioned before, I just keep my receiver at Straight so that it can hear the soundtrack as it was originally recorded without any artificial enhancements. If the sub's trim sounds ok to you at -10dB then that's the correct setting. Remember, what sounds good to you is all that matters.
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post #77 of 83 Old 11-25-2013, 12:08 PM
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Here is my input on this receiver. For blu-ray movies, always use the STRAIGHT setting. That's the only way to hear the original mix of the movie as it is intended to be heard.

You will see on your receiver it should display "DTS HD-MASTER AUDIO" or "DOLBY TRUEHD". Changing to "Standard" or any of the DSP modes switches it to "DTS" automatically, thus changing the output. It won't sound as good anymore.

For regular TV watching and whatnot you can play with the DSP modes. I, however, tend to just use STRAIGHT unless you want to mix a stereo into surround.


Also I have a question about my calibration settings.

I replaced my two front speakers with tower speakers because I had that before I bought this system.
I did the YPAO calibration and it has the crossover frequency at 200 Hz. Should I keep it as that? Also the "Extra Bass" option is ON.

I'm guessing this means my tower front speakers are getting some LFE and also the subwoofer is doing that too?
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post #78 of 83 Old 11-25-2013, 01:59 PM
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200Hz x-over seems a bit high. I have mine set at 120Hz using the speakers that originally came with my Yamaha system. I set it there because I don't know where the low pass filters kick in (setting the speakers to Small) so I didn't want any "gaps" in the ranges. It also takes some of the load off of the fronts and sides which gives them more power for the upper frequencies. Sub-woofer response is still fine for us with the x-over at 120Hz and not the recommended 80Hz. I don't use the extra bass option because I really couldn't hear the difference and I'm not sure what it does. I manually calibrated my system and like you, I just keep the receiver at Straight for everything because I don't like any artificial enhancements.
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post #79 of 83 Old 11-25-2013, 02:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Otto Pylot View Post

200Hz x-over seems a bit high. I have mine set at 120Hz using the speakers that originally came with my Yamaha system. I set it there because I don't know where the low pass filters kick in (setting the speakers to Small) so I didn't want any "gaps" in the ranges. It also takes some of the load off of the fronts and sides which gives them more power for the upper frequencies. Sub-woofer response is still fine for us with the x-over at 120Hz and not the recommended 80Hz. I don't use the extra bass option because I really couldn't hear the difference and I'm not sure what it does. I manually calibrated my system and like you, I just keep the receiver at Straight for everything because I don't like any artificial enhancements.

When I use the YPAO calibration, that's what came up for crossover frequency. It's maxed out at 200 Hz. Also front speakers are set to large since I have tower speaker for the fronts.

I do notice some extra bass from that "EXTRA BASS" setting when I switch from on to off.

I could take a screenshot of the setting but I'm not home right now.
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post #80 of 83 Old 11-25-2013, 02:56 PM
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I think there are mixed reviews for using the automatic calibration with these entry-level systems. I just used the manual system that came with mine and then tweaked it a bit with an SPL meter. It's certainly not like calibrating your tv but it sounds great to us, given the speaker sizes. It could have something to do with the front speakers that you added. Dial back the x-over to 120Hz and listen to it for a few days to see if there is any difference. The fronts should sound a little brighter. Do you hear any voice from the sub?

Also, the physical size of the speakers has nothing to do with the Small or Large setting. The nomenclature is confusing. If you have your speakers set to Small, that turns the x-over on. If you have them set to Large, that turns the x-over off. You're basically turning on or off the Low Pass and High Pass filters. The LFE channel, (if available in the content), is a separate channel that goes to the subwoofer output when the subwoofer is set to On.
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post #81 of 83 Old 11-25-2013, 06:02 PM
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Ok so I should set the crossover frequency to 120 Hz, change front speaker to "small" and adjust from there?
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post #82 of 83 Old 11-25-2013, 06:30 PM
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Yes, set speakers to small. And 120 is likely a better crossover than 200 unless you have speakers completely incapable of reproducing bass.

If you really want to figure out where the crossover should be, get a calibration disc like Avia that has bass sweeps. The sweeps will show you the point at which your speakers can no longer produce lower frequencies.

One other thing, ImmoralKnight: the statement in your initial post says applying a DSP to a dts-MA source turns it into DTS. That cannot happen. Your receiver cannot turn a lossless codec into lossy one. If the source sends lossless, that's what the receiver will process.
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post #83 of 83 Old 11-25-2013, 07:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIslander View Post

Yes, set speakers to small. And 120 is likely a better crossover than 200 unless you have speakers completely incapable of reproducing bass.

If you really want to figure out where the crossover should be, get a calibration disc like Avia that has bass sweeps. The sweeps will show you the point at which your speakers can no longer produce lower frequencies.

One other thing, ImmoralKnight: the statement in your initial post says applying a DSP to a dts-MA source turns it into DTS. That cannot happen. Your receiver cannot turn a lossless codec into lossy one. If the source sends lossless, that's what the receiver will process.

Sorry for the misinformation. But when I do change the setting, the receiver display went from "DTS HD Master Audio" to "DTS" whenever I use any of the DSP modes.

I guess it could just be like that? Display wise.
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