How does the Yamaha YHT-399U compare to the Sony HT-SS380? - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 50 Old 06-18-2013, 10:19 AM - Thread Starter
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I was using the final battle scene in the Avengers BD yesterday to test out the difference between crossover settings of 200Hz, 160Hz, and 120Hz and from a purely subjective viewpoint going from 200Hz to 160Hz made things sound quite a bit clearer and going from 160Hz to 120Hz did even more so. I think since the SW is rated from 28Hz to 200Hz, 200Hz is the extreme limit for the SW and it probably runs out of steam closer to 120Hz. Also, there's probably a reason why the available options are: 40, 60, 80, 100, 110, 120, 160, 200Hz. As you can see, the finest increments (10Hz increments) are between 100 and 120Hz and past that the increments are quite large (40Hz steps) and below that they are somewhat larger (20Hz steps). I think this might be because somewhere around 100Hz to 120Hz (or close) is where the sweet spot is between the upper limits of the SW and the lower limits of the small sats.

So, my ears confirm that 120Hz sounds better than 200Hz (or even 160Hz) for the source material I was using as a reference. I would like to be able to measure the response curve of the speakers in the future, though, since I'm used to making objective decisions/measurements when setting up/calibrating my displays.
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post #32 of 50 Old 06-18-2013, 11:06 AM
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^^^ that was a good test and I'm glad that it worked out ok. I think the receiver in general would probably work more efficiently with better speakers but your observation and conclusion is a sound one (no pun intended wink.gif). I agree about subjective observations vs measured observations but until I take that step, I think the way that we have them setup with the tools available to us it will have to do. Besides, it does sound pretty good doesn't it?
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post #33 of 50 Old 06-21-2013, 10:11 AM - Thread Starter
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Well, I finally put the receiver back into 8 ohms mode after using it for a week with the 6 ohms mode. I also put a wooden board (detached shelf from an old desk) under the SW, since my floor is carpeted and I was concerned some of the bass might be getting muffled/muted by the floor. I did an auto-cal and the crossover was set to 80Hz instead of the 120Hz I previously got (in 8 ohms mode). Also, the SW distance setting was about 15 feet (but it was more like 7.5 feet in 6 ohms mode and around 13 feet in 8 ohms mode the first time I did the auto-cal). Everything else seems to be in order (SW gain was set to -10.0 dB for all three auto-cals and gains and distances for the satellites seem about right).

The only two potential anomalies are SW distance and SW crossover. I used a tape measure to estimate the SW distance and it's about 9 feet from my listening position (where the auto-cal mike was placed). I haven't noticed any ill effects from the crossover setting of 80Hz (in 8 ohms mode) but the SW distance is obviously off in terms of reporting the real distance from my ears to the SW.
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post #34 of 50 Old 06-21-2013, 10:14 AM - Thread Starter
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nvm, found my answer here about SW distance:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1469397/ypao#post_23452062

"The distances set by YPAO are for room/delay correction so that all sounds arrive at the listening position at the same time.
They aren't meant to be the actual distances. The sub setting, in particular, will look "way off" but should be left alone"
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post #35 of 50 Old 06-21-2013, 11:05 AM
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^^^^ interesting. I put a small plastic tupperware container underneath my sub to elevate it about 2-3 inches off of the carpet for the same reason (I think I mentioned that). The container is much smaller than the sub footprint so you can't see it and it makes the sub appear as if it's floating above the carpet. It will be interesting to see how it sounds once the carpet is gone and it's sitting on a hardwood floor (another a/v project down the road).

My sw is about 10-12' from the dead center position on the couch and is slightly angled and out from the corner of the "HTS wall". I did the sub crawl. My wife thought I had lost my mind (and maybe she was right) and the sound seemed evenly distributed and not localized, but maybe the carpeting/furnishings had something to do with that. I do have the volume knob on the sw a bit above mid-point so we get good bass without any of the "boominess" or over-powering of the other channels.
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post #36 of 50 Old 06-21-2013, 12:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Otto Pylot View Post

^^^^ interesting. I put a small plastic tupperware container underneath my sub to elevate it about 2-3 inches off of the carpet for the same reason (I think I mentioned that). The container is much smaller than the sub footprint so you can't see it and it makes the sub appear as if it's floating above the carpet. It will be interesting to see how it sounds once the carpet is gone and it's sitting on a hardwood floor (another a/v project down the road).

My sw is about 10-12' from the dead center position on the couch and is slightly angled and out from the corner of the "HTS wall". I did the sub crawl. My wife thought I had lost my mind (and maybe she was right) and the sound seemed evenly distributed and not localized, but maybe the carpeting/furnishings had something to do with that. I do have the volume knob on the sw a bit above mid-point so we get good bass without any of the "boominess" or over-powering of the other channels.

what's the sub crawl? mine is simply on the ground near the fronts (which are high up) and angled about 45 degrees from the wall pointing left diagonally

the bass I hear isn't really localized... especially since with a SW crossover setting 80Hz, the satellites do produce frequencies from 80Hz to 200Hz (and up, of course)

I'm exactly sure why YPAO thinks 80Hz is optimal for the SW crossover but it sounds just fine at that setting so I'd not going to think too much about it.
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post #37 of 50 Old 06-21-2013, 02:37 PM
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The sub crawl is actually getting on your hands and knees and moving around your floor to find the best spot where the bass tones are not localized and seem to be evenly distributed. It sounds like a joke but it's really not if you think about it. The lower frequencies will be more directed along the floor because that's where the sw is and there are probably more areas for absorption/diffusion than speakers that are 3+ feet higher up. The lower frequencies also have more of a tendency to "spread out" than the higher frequencies which tend to be more directional. And by best spot I mean the physical location and orientation of the sw.
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post #38 of 50 Old 07-10-2013, 09:15 AM - Thread Starter
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regarding the sticky rubber feet that come with the HTiB, does it matter whether I use them or not from a sound quality perspective? I haven't bothered with using those so far
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post #39 of 50 Old 07-10-2013, 10:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post

regarding the sticky rubber feet that come with the HTiB, does it matter whether I use them or not from a sound quality perspective? I haven't bothered with using those so far

I don't know. Mine is still currently sitting on a small tupperware container to elevate it off of the carpet about 2 inches. Once the remodel is done, the floor will be hardwood and I'll just put the sub on that (I already affixed the rubber feet when I first got the sub). Seems to me that the rubber feet would elevate it enough so that you don't get any vibrational interference from the flooring material depending on how loud you play it.
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post #40 of 50 Old 08-11-2013, 01:17 PM - Thread Starter
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I found setting my active sub to halfway as the owner manual states was too high since the auto cal was driving the sub levels all the way down and then pushing up the satellites to compensate even further... setting it 1/4 of the way resulted in a sub level of 0 (midpoint).

Speaker Level

Front L +3.5 0
Front R +4.5 0
Center +1.0 -2.5
Surround L +1.0 -2.5
Surround R +2.0 -1.5
Subwoofer -10.0 0


Distance

Front L 7.6ft 7.4
Front R 9.0ft 9.0
Center 8.2ft 8.0
Surround L 2.8ft 2.8
Surround R 5.2ft 5.6
Subwoofer 15.6ft 9.2


Configuration

Subwoofer Use
Front Small
Center Small
Surround Small
Crossover 80Hz
Subwoofer Phase Normal
Extra Bass Off

*bold values are with sub at 1/4
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post #41 of 50 Old 08-11-2013, 08:00 PM
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We started the remodeling so everything is packed away and we're using the LG's built-in speakers frown.gif . All I can say is that I can't wait till the remodeling is done so I can set the HTS up again! It will be interesting to see what changes I'll have to make going from a carpeted to a hardwood floor room. The Cat-6 cable was installed yesterday (in a conduit with a pull string) so I wired and tested it out today. Works beautifully with a gigabit switch so it will be nice to not have to use WiFi for the HTS. Can't wait!

So are you using your autocal settings, manual settings, or a combo of both?
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post #42 of 50 Old 08-12-2013, 08:48 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Otto Pylot View Post

We started the remodeling so everything is packed away and we're using the LG's built-in speakers frown.gif . All I can say is that I can't wait till the remodeling is done so I can set the HTS up again! It will be interesting to see what changes I'll have to make going from a carpeted to a hardwood floor room. The Cat-6 cable was installed yesterday (in a conduit with a pull string) so I wired and tested it out today. Works beautifully with a gigabit switch so it will be nice to not have to use WiFi for the HTS. Can't wait!

So are you using your autocal settings, manual settings, or a combo of both?

auto-cal only
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post #43 of 50 Old 08-12-2013, 09:02 AM
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Well if those auto-call settings sound good to you then that's all that matters. There really is only so much you can do with these speakers whether they're calibrated manually or using the auto-cal feature.
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post #44 of 50 Old 08-12-2013, 05:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Otto Pylot View Post

Well if those auto-call settings sound good to you then that's all that matters. There really is only so much you can do with these speakers whether they're calibrated manually or using the auto-cal feature.

yeah, I know...

the point of this exercise was to see how high I really needed to set the knob on the back of the SW... the owner's manual said 50% but I gave 25% a try after looking at by auto-cal results and that seemed to work out exactly (lucky first guess... I didn't try any other settings than 25% aside from the original 50%)
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post #45 of 50 Old 08-12-2013, 07:57 PM
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I have mine set a tad over 50%, but then again my xover is 120Hz. Works very well for us in our environment (well, it did. now it's temporarily in storage frown.gif).
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post #46 of 50 Old 08-13-2013, 09:39 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Otto Pylot View Post

I have mine set a tad over 50%, but then again my xover is 120Hz. Works very well for us in our environment (well, it did. now it's temporarily in storage frown.gif).

on mine the auto cal level results were the same (always -10.0 dB) regardless of where the crossover was set (120Hz vs. 80Hz)

only turning the knob down on the back of the SW changed it


for me it makes more sense to only turn up the SW to the minimum level needed, as opposed to cranking it up too high and then having to overcompensate by cranking the SW level down in the AVR and boosting the other channels up
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post #47 of 50 Old 03-13-2014, 10:00 AM - Thread Starter
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I'm considering in the not too distant future to upgrade the speakers but stick with the receiver in this HTiB. I'd like to switch to full range speakers (though still have a subwoofer) plus be able to fully utilize the 6 ohm capability of the receiver (apparently with 4 ohm capability for front speakers). However, I don't want to spend more than $200-$300 for the whole 5.1 set nor do I want floorstanding speakers or anything twice the size of my existing speakers (the ones that come with this HTiB). Also, would it help to buy the speakers as a 5.1 set or would I want to buy them one by one or in pairs? I want to make sure they work well with each other and that the YPAO (auto-cal) still works just as well as with the current speakers. Do I need to stick with yamaha brand speakers or not?

In any case, all the questions are so I can better understand what to buy when I'm ready... which is not for another 6 months to a year.
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post #48 of 50 Old 03-13-2014, 11:15 AM
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I've been looking at the MLT-2's for awhile now. We finished a remodeling job last summer so the speaker upgrade budget is still being rebuilt, but the MLT-2's are still high on my list. Speaking of remodeling, the audio dynamics noticeably changed from the carpeted floor to the current solid hardwood floor. The change was for the better. Clearer and cleaner and we have to keep the volume down a bit more than before. BTW, the MLT-2's are a bit bigger than what you have now but not by much.
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post #49 of 50 Old 03-21-2014, 01:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Otto Pylot View Post

I've been looking at the MLT-2's for awhile now. We finished a remodeling job last summer so the speaker upgrade budget is still being rebuilt, but the MLT-2's are still high on my list. Speaking of remodeling, the audio dynamics noticeably changed from the carpeted floor to the current solid hardwood floor. The change was for the better. Clearer and cleaner and we have to keep the volume down a bit more than before. BTW, the MLT-2's are a bit bigger than what you have now but not by much.
Those look very good but I have two questions: what's the lowest they're going for new and is it true they're discontinued?
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post #50 of 50 Old 03-21-2014, 02:13 PM
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Those look very good but I have two questions: what's the lowest they're going for new and is it true they're discontinued?

It's been almost a year since I looked at them so I don't know how low the prices have gone, and I didn't know they had been discontinued frown.gif I hate to start looking all over again for good bookshelves.
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