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needs help

302 views 14 replies 2 participants last post by  Otto Pylot 
#1 ·
Im going to furnish my new house next weekend and have a big bar and wants to buy a big tv and sound system for music....but i have no idea what to buy for a speaker/sound system. I was told at best buy that a sound bar wouldn't be good enough for a big bar for having some music. Then I was shown a Klipsch surround sound speaker system bundle which is a 6 piece set not including the receiver for $1299 canadian for a savings of $850. and 7 input receiver for $600. I have no idea if this is good or if their is a cheaper way or what each of the things do? for example it looks like a subwoofer, two tall speakers, two small speakers and one other thing but was told none of it is wireless so i guess it would be cords everywhere? Could somebody please reply to this and explain what would be the best option. It will be used for tv and music for parties.
 
#2 ·
I would certainly not recommend a sound bar. Conventional wisdom says you should always go with separates (receiver and speakers). You can purchase nice HTiB's at your price point (receiver/speaker combination in a single package), but the speakers are usually the weak link. Good speakers can make a mediocre receiver sound great, but mediocre speakers can make a great receiver sound bad.

Wireless is an option but most wireless systems still require a power outlet for the back speakers and both of those speakers are usually wired together. The wireless part means that you don't have any wires connecting the back speakers to the receiver. There are systems that have powered transceivers so that the speakers don't need to be wired together, and there are other options as well but it can get expensive and you are always left with the possibility of problems due to the wireless technology. Wireless can work very well but you need to do your homework and audition them if possible.

If your new tv is 4k with HDMI 2.0 input(s) then you'd be best to look for a receiver with HDMI 2.0/HDCP 2.2, at least 4 HDMI inputs, and any other bells and whistles you think you'll need/want. Most higher end receivers from Yamaha, Denon, and Onkyo will have everything you'll probably need for the near future.

Speakers can be tough depending on what you want. Floor standing, bookshelf, 5.1 or 7.1, one or two subs, etc. Size of the room, configuration of the room, furnishings, etc will have a definite affect on your sound. It is really a good idea if you can audition the speakers first to see (hear) if they sound good to you. But keep in mind that where you hear them will be a bit different than in your own environment.

So, what to do? I would look for a receiver first. Once you decide on that, or have a good idea of what you want, then I'd go to the speakers forum, state the receiver you want, how much you want to spend on speakers, your needs, and see what they say there. If you go the HTiB route, I would not get an integrated system (one with a built-in blu-ray player). Sub-woofers are usually passive and you're limited somewhat in options and upgradeability.
 
#3 ·
the room is 14ft wide and 32ft long. So the 4 hdmi on the receiver would be for what? I gets confused as to what gotta hook up to the receiver so if i have 6 speakers (2 front, 2 rear, 1 centre and 1 sub woofer) and then tv and ps4 I would need to hook all 8 of those things up to the receiver? I know that is probably a laughable question but i don't know
 
#4 ·
The receiver should be the hub of your HTS (Home Theater System). The HDMI inputs are for any devices that you want to connect to your tv. That could be a cable box, streaming device (Roku, AppleTV, etc), blu-ray player, game console, etc. The idea is to run all of your devices thru the receiver so that any number of audio formats can be played back thru the various speakers depending on how the original source is encoded and then just pass the video on to the tv. The tv and receiver are connected via a single HDMI cable.

The speakers have their own connectors totally independent of HDMI. A 5.1 audio system consists of front R/L/C, side speakers, and a sub-woofer. It's considered only 5 speakers. The sub is designated as the ".1".

HDMI carries both audio and video so the receiver separates that and sends it off to either the speakers for audio or the tv for video. The wires that connect the speakers to the receiver are just to transmit the audio to the correct audio "space".
 
#5 ·
the cdmi audio and video thing really cleared things up. My budget is between $1500 and $2000 Canadian maybe $2500 tops. I looking at systems that say for example 150 watts for speaker, 100 watts for this etc so does the receiver have to be equal or greater than the total combined watts for all the speakers? I'm thinking yes. If you had any suggestions on what to get that be greatly appreciated meeting my budget. I would have ps4 and tv and satellite
 
#6 · (Edited)
Power ratings are much more confusing. You have to consider if the ratings are measured with all channels being driven or just one or two, and at what impedence (ohms) the speakers are being driven at. For example, a receiver rated at 75 watts per channel with all channels driven is noticeably more powerful than a 100 watt receiver with only one or two channels driven. And by channel I mean front R/L/C, sides and sub-woofer. You also need to look at the efficiency of the speakers (sensitivity) of the speakers. That specifies how many decibels of sound they produce from 1 watt of power from 1 meter away. Numbers above 90 are considered very efficient. 87-89 are average. The lower the efficiency the more power you need. To make a 3 decibel difference you would need to double the power so the difference between a rating of 87 decibels and 90 decibels is actually quite large. A pair of speakers rated at 90 decibels and a 50-watt amplifier will perform the same as a pair of 87 decibel rated speakers with a 100-watt amp. Impedence of the speakers must also be considered. Speakers with a 4ohm impedence will be noticeably louder than the same size with an impedence of 8ohms. However, driving speakers at 4ohms requires more energy which translates to heat in the amplifier. A lot of people have receivers than can drive 4 or 8 ohm speakers but usually drive them at 8 ohms to reduce the heat and just turn up the volume a bit.

To sum it up, look for a receiver or amp that is rated between 20-20,000 Hz (the range of the human ear) with less than 1% THD (Total Harmonic Distortion), a signal-to-noise ratio above 95 decibels is excellent. For a small to medium sized rooms, a receiver with 50 Watts minimum per channel with speaker sensitivity above 90 decibels would be good. If you have a large room or speakers below 87 decibels sensitivity, try to get an amp with 100 watts or more per channel. This is obviously only a guideline but do be careful when reading specs because they can be worded in such a way as to not be real clear. And, unless stated, you don't know how the speaker ratings are determined. They could be determined in an anechoic chamber or something more real world environment. If you buy an HTiB, the speakers are usually matched to a certain degree to the receiver for minimal enjoyment (most people aren't audiophiles) but the receivers can usually handle a higher quality of speaker. There's also speaker calibration for room size/furnishings etc but that's a whole 'nuther matter.
 
#8 ·
That price point will get a nice receiver and speakers. As I said before, you can't go wrong with a Yamaha (that's what I have), Denon, or Onkyo receiver so start there. Once you pick out the receiver go to the speaker forums, post what receiver you have and how much you're willing to spend on speakers and see what the recommendations are. Mention your preferences (music over movies, 50/50, what ever) and see what they say. Take your time, do your homework and audition as many as you can. Specs are one thing, and marketing will make every receiver and speaker the best money can buy, but only your ears will really tell you what is best.
 
#9 ·
ok I was thinking will can't pick out speakers cause don't know receiver and can't pick out receiver cause don't know speakers lol. I was looking at a yamaha one but i think it was $750 on best buy not sure if that's a good deal. there was some there a lot cheaper
 
#10 ·
Just sit back and think what you want your receiver to do. If the receiver has 5-way binding posts for speaker connections (they can take bare wire, banana plug connectors, etc) then virtually any speaker will connect with no issues. Most receivers, unless they are part of an integrated package which may use proprietary speaker connectors, are going to work. So you don't have to worry about the speakers just yet.

Decide on how many HDMI inputs you want. What you need now and possibly in the future. Most come with 4 HDMI inputs so that would take care of a blu-ray player, a game console (PS4 etc), a cable connection, possibly a STB (Roku, AppleTV, etc). If you can find one with 5 HDMI inputs the better. Most have a single HDMI out (to the tv) that is ARC capable. Whether you choose to use ARC (Audio Return Channel) or not makes no difference. The HDMI output will function just fine if you choose to use it uni-directionally.

Optical input(s) and possibly output(s) as well as component inputs/outputs.

It would be wise to find one with the HDMI 2.0a/HDCP2.2 chipsets because those requirement will be very important in the near future for UHD (without upconverting) and playback of UHD blu-rays once they become more available. Do keep in mind that you will also need a new UHD blu-ray player once they become available next year. However, current blu-ray players will work just fine because HDMI 2.0a is backward compatible.

The receiver should have the most current audio formats for lossy and lossless audio so that shouldn't be a problem. 4k passthrough may be important so you might want to consider that.

Auto-calibration (Audessey) for audio. Most mid to high end receivers have this. I'm kind of on the fence about the usefullness of auto-cals but if the receiver has it, use it and see what you think.

On-screen programming. That allows you to view the setup procedures on your tv which makes setting up a lot easier. Especially for those of us who have aging eyes.

I don't care for all of the various audio defaults (concert hall, movies, etc) but some like it and most receivers have a nice set to play with.

Equalizer. Meh. I don't find mine very useful so I don't use it. Higher end receivers may have more robust equalizers but that's a personal choice.

Digital radio tuner. It's nice if you just want to listen to the ball game in your tv room without the tv being on if you can't receive the broadcast. Also makes for nice background music if you want to use that room without the tv being on.

iPod, iPhone connectivity or any other similar device.

Wireless? That's a hot subject. For me, I cleanly solved my wiring problem so I don't have to worry about it. Some swear by wireless but it's also another technology that you may have problems with so educate yourself on that one and choose carefully.

5.1 or 7.1? That's up to you. If you have space behind your listening area for the rear speakers (7.1) then that would be a consideration. Most folks I think are satisfied with 5.1 (speakers to the side of the listening area) but that's a personal preference. If you can get a good price on a 7.1 system then you're all set in the future if you decide you want to go that route. You can always setup a 7.1 system for 5.1 without any loss of fidelity.

Atmos. I don't know a lot about Atmos so that's another area you'll need to educate yourself on to see if it's something you want to invest in. All of these newer features sound great (literally and actually) but will enough sources be there in the future to justify the current cost. That's for you to decide.

So, the above are things to think about and educate yourself on when picking your receiver. It is by no means the gospel in things to consider but it is a start. I think once you decide on a receiver the speaker will be a bit easier because cost will be your limiting factor. But, speakers can always be upgraded later if you have a receiver that can handle them and most mid to high end receivers will handle just about anything.
 
#11 ·
Pioneer VSX-830-K 400-Watt 5.2 Channel 3D Home Theatre Receiver for $499 and Onkyo TXNR545 455-Watt 7.2 Channel Network A/V Receiver for $649 is what i found on my local best buy. pioneer seems more powerful and cheaper but I guess the onkyo is better quality
 
#13 ·
.2 systems are nice but do you know what .2 means? I don't mean to sound condenscending but why pay for a feature that you might not need. However, if you are planning ahead.....

Both receivers can probably handle 200W speakers depending on how that 200W is determined (4 ohms or 8 ohms). Do keep in mind that the louder the "sound" is the more likely you are to lose fidelity.

Decide on what you want to hear. Window shaking, teeth rattling sound or discrete, cleanly defined sound with clear atmospheric definition.
 
#14 ·
I just wouldn't want to upgrade again next year. So I ordered the onkyo. And my price point for two fronts, center, subwoofer, two rears are $1200 max. I noticed two Polk tower speakers 150watts for black friday reg $800 on for $300 along with $100 subwoofer and $100 rear speakers which are both 100 watts. How will I lmkw if the received can play the poll 150 watt speakers or not with damaging?
 
#15 ·
Don't turn the volume all the way up for a sustained period of time. My receiver has a max vol setting so that if someone cranks up the volume, the receiver will only go as far as I have programmed so it's virtually impossible to blow my speakers. What I did is look at the max dB setting of the volume control and then set it back about 10 dB and "set" that reading. That way, if the volume gets cranked all the way up, the loudest it will be is 10 dB below the max. Or, carefully turn up the volume until it's either too loud or you start to lose fidelity and then lock in that dB reading as your max. It should be less than the max output your receiver is capable of. Keep in mind that if you run your speakers at 4 ohms, that is going to be louder than running them at 8 ohms, but that takes more energy which translates to increased heat from the receiver. All of this tweaking should be done after you set them up and during the calibration phase. It also depends, in part, on how you've setup your speakers (placement, that it distance apart, speaker height in relationship to the main sitting area, etc).
 
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