Anyone Get Buzz from HT-S790 by Upgrading Wires? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 21 Old 11-03-2006, 12:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Hi,

A few months ago, I bought an Onkyo HT-S590 system. I immediately upgraded the speaker wires and experienced the buzz that I learned afterwards (from forums like this one) was very common with that receiver. I solved the problem by replacing a couple of the wires with the ones that came with the system.

Now, I've bought an Onkyo HT-S790 for another room. Before I upgrade the speaker wires, I'd like to know if anyone who owns the 790 has had a problem with a hum after upgrading their wires. If not, what gauge wire did you use that didn't get a hum, and did you notice any significant difference in sound quality?

Also, just for my information (being new to home theater setups), are the Monster brand wires worth their extra cost?

Thanks for your help!

Bill
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post #2 of 21 Old 11-03-2006, 04:11 PM
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Since you already have some upgraded wires from your 590, why don't you try them on your 790? Then you'll know for sure.

Afro GT
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post #3 of 21 Old 11-03-2006, 05:49 PM - Thread Starter
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afrogt,

Hmm, not a bad idea. But it's a real pain unplugging and reattaching those wires twice and moving them from room to room. Also, as I mentioned, a couple of the wires are the supplied ones, so I'd have to buy heavier wires for those speakers for the test. In addition, the 790 has two more speakers than the 590, so wires for them would have to be purchased too. It would almost be easier to just buy all the wires and hope for the best.

I'd still love to hear from HT-S790 owners who've upgraded their wires. Anyone out there????

Bill
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post #4 of 21 Old 11-03-2006, 11:32 PM
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I haven't heard of any bussing issues with upgraded wire from the 790 or 780 for that matter. It seemed to be specific with the receiver in the 590 package. I purchased the 580 which was the previous version of the 590 and upgraded with 16ga no problem. You shouldn't have any issues.

I'd go with 16 ga, 14 will work but might be a little thick to get in the terminals. 16 should be fine.
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post #5 of 21 Old 11-04-2006, 04:55 AM
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I was able to use 14 gauge speaker wires with the receiver in my HT-S780 HTIB by using banana plugs. Not only did it allow me to use larger gauge wires than I could have by connecting to the binding posts in the normal manner, it made connecting the speaker wires much less miserable b/c the banana plugs just "plug" into the center of the binding post in a much more simple manner than using the knurled knobs on the binding posts to secure the wires.

Highly recommended--now disconnecting the receiver for removal from the equipment stand for cleaning tasks, etc is a much easier job as well. The banana plugs ran between $7 and $10 a pair for gold plated pieces at my local Circuit City.

I know this was not a possibility with the 580 b/c it had spring terminals rather than binding posts, not sure about the 680 (I had one only long enough to repack it and return it for credit toward the 780).

As for the problem occurring with the 790, I doubt it if the receiver is close to the one provided with the 780 as I suspect it is. From what I've read on this forum the main difference is the provision for XM radio. I had no buzzing issues with my 780 system when using 16 gauge speaker wire and attaching to the binding post in the normal manner--I just needed to go to 14 gauge b/c of the length of speaker wire I had to use for the runs to all the surround speakers--- up one wall, over the ceiling and down the other wall. The only way fit the 14 gauge wires was with the banana plugs. BTW--once that wiring task was done, I didn't hear any difference from the surround speakers, so it might have been wasted effort, but I felt better for having done it for some obscure reason. Go figure!

Doug

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post #6 of 21 Old 11-04-2006, 05:19 AM - Thread Starter
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So, the bottom line seems to be that I won't get a buzzing problem by changing to heavier wire, but I may not notice any difference in the sound either! I'd like to hear from any other 780/790 owners who have compared the sound from the "dental floss" wire versus heavier wire.

Like YerDugliness, I'll be running some of the wires across a ceiling (false ceiling) and down a wall, making them a bit long. At what length do you need to consider going to a heavier wire? Is there a table somewhere that shows this information? (I'll Google it and see.)

By the way, I also was having problems stuffing the heavier gauge wires into the spring terminals on my 590 (which I had purchased before the 790). I solved the problem by melting some solder on each bare wire to keep the strands from fraying. It worked fine, and was a lot less expensive than banana clips.

Bill
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post #7 of 21 Old 11-04-2006, 01:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BSquared18 View Post

So, the bottom line seems to be that I won't get a buzzing problem by changing to heavier wire, but I may not notice any difference in the sound either! I'd like to hear from any other 780/790 owners who have compared the sound from the "dental floss" wire versus heavier wire.

Like YerDugliness, I'll be running some of the wires across a ceiling (false ceiling) and down a wall, making them a bit long. At what length do you need to consider going to a heavier wire? Is there a table somewhere that shows this information? (I'll Google it and see.)

By the way, I also was having problems stuffing the heavier gauge wires into the spring terminals on my 590 (which I had purchased before the 790). I solved the problem by melting some solder on each bare wire to keep the strands from fraying. It worked fine, and was a lot less expensive than banana clips.

Bill

When I upgraded my 580 htib from the inluded dental floss to 16ga there was a noticeable difference. It's not the kind of difference that blow one away in awww, but it was imediate and noticeable. My feeling was and is, even if I didn't notice a difference the wire that came with it is substandard, no question about that. For a around $20 upgrade on the wire (that I will use after the system also) and to know I've have adquate cable to get the information from the receiver to the speakers, I would have upgraded anyway.

General tables I've seen all were simular in saying, Under 50' runs 16ga is fine, 50-100' 14ga and over 100' 12ga.

I use 14ga, the price difference between 14 and 16ga is minimal and I know I don't have any runs over 100'.

If you want go the banana plug route there is ano reason to pay inflated prices, I've ordered many of these at $2.10 a piar and they work great.

http://www.lenexpo-electronics.com/1...G-p-16213.html
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post #8 of 21 Old 11-04-2006, 10:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jakeman02 View Post

If you want go the banana plug route there is ano reason to pay inflated prices, I've ordered many of these at $2.10 a piar and they work great.

http://www.lenexpo-electronics.com/1...G-p-16213.html


jake is right as usual, don't buy your wires/cables/interconnects at BB or CC, you'll pay way more than you have too. other good sites to check out for this kind of stuff are monoprice and partsexpress.

they make a killing at the big box stores overcharging the masses with this stuff b/c most consumers don't know any better. i've heard this many times: "well, you want to be able to watch that HDTV when you get home right? so you'll need this HDMI cable...it's the latest in digital HDTV technology and its only $79.95"

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post #9 of 21 Old 11-05-2006, 04:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks. Very helpful. I was a member of the "masses" that got overcharged for speaker wire with my first HTiB purchase (at Circuit City). Fooled once, shame on you; fooled twice, shame on me--right? I'll check out those sites you mentioned, G-Star. Also, I saw what looked like some good deals on eBay. Has anyone had experience buying speaker wire there?

Bill
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post #10 of 21 Old 11-09-2006, 03:31 PM
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I used 14 gauge speaker wire with my HT-S790. The thicker wire is a bit tricky to connect to the receiver, but it is doable, even without banana plugs. I figure I only need to do it once so it was worth the trouble. I haven't heard any buzzing. I picked up the speaker wire (100') from Monoprice for just $20+shipping. It was $37 at Home Depot, which is still much cheaper than those electronics stores.
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post #11 of 21 Old 11-10-2006, 04:00 AM
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When i bought my HT-S-590 this summer, from my previous experience with JVC Dolby surround system, i haven't even bothered with connecting the system's speakers with supplied wires. I bought "16 gauge spool wrom Rdio Shack on the same day and used it to connect the speakers. No hacks, no tape spacers, no screw tricks nothing like that. Up to this day the sound is crystal clear. Probably Onkyo revised this receiver already.
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post #12 of 21 Old 12-03-2006, 11:42 AM
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I purchased 12 gauge speaker wire for my Yamaha HTIB syem. It came with banana plugs but I didn't know how to connect those, so I connected the wires the old fashion way. I am far from being a wiz at audio set ups and no wonder it was so damn hard to push the twisted wires into the holes. Took quite a bit of fiddling.

This has nothing to do with the receiver you guys are talking about, but am I damaging my system by using 12 gauge wires? I don't hear static or buzzing, and everything sounds great.
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post #13 of 21 Old 01-05-2007, 12:23 PM
 
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A friend of mine changed from the original 22 gauge wires that came with the system to 16 gauge Monster wire and cable and guess what? The difference was so minute that the average listener could not tell a difference. Plus the system ran hotter with the Monster wires.
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post #14 of 21 Old 01-05-2007, 09:17 PM
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Thicker wire serves two purposes. The first is power tolerance. The smaller the wire, the more it will heat up when being pushed with high power outputs--the hotter the wire gets, the higher the resistance gets, but it takes quite a bit of heat to make an audible difference. For that reason, it's not at all unusual to change the factory dental floss size wires for larger size--it reduces the possibility of sound degradation when the amp is pushed close to it's limits. In other words, larger wires will tolerate more power without heating up; that's why your friend's equipment ran hotter after the wires were switched for bigger ones--less resistance to the amp's attempts to push power allowed it to create more power, thereby creating more heat in the process.

The second reason could be more audible. The majority of the power put out by the amp comes in transferring the bass signals. It takes a lot of power to set that large cone into motion, and according to Newton that cone will continue in motion even after the signal is stopped unless acted on by a counteracting force. For amplifiers, that counteracting force is reported in a measurement called damping factor. In effect, the damping factor is a measurement of the amplifier's ability to stop the cone's motion, which can have significant audible benefits. No more ringing in the midrange (which can often be mistaken for slap echo, a room boundary effect). Tighter, more defined bass with no more "one note" complaints (every speaker has a free air resonance point, a frequency at which it will oscillate given the chance--most often, that is the "one note" frequency). Larger wires improve the amplifier's ability to control the motion of the woofer's cone and damp those spurious sounds.

The nice thing about powered subs is that the damping factor is not important when dealing with line level outputs, only outputs in watts, and with the short runs of wires between the internal amp in the sub and the cone, there's usually not a problem. That's why it is important to pick an HTIB with a powered subwoofer. You still will have to expect the amp to damp the resonances in the cones for the mid-bass and the midrange, though.

A poorly damped system will sound "muddy", a term I often hear used to describe the sound of many HTIB's.

Doug

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post #15 of 21 Old 01-24-2007, 02:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jakeman02 View Post

When I upgraded my 580 htib from the inluded dental floss to 16ga there was a noticeable difference. It's not the kind of difference that blow one away in awww, but it was imediate and noticeable. My feeling was and is, even if I didn't notice a difference the wire that came with it is substandard, no question about that. For a around $20 upgrade on the wire (that I will use after the system also) and to know I've have adquate cable to get the information from the receiver to the speakers, I would have upgraded anyway.

General tables I've seen all were simular in saying, Under 50' runs 16ga is fine, 50-100' 14ga and over 100' 12ga.

I use 14ga, the price difference between 14 and 16ga is minimal and I know I don't have any runs over 100'.

If you want go the banana plug route there is ano reason to pay inflated prices, I've ordered many of these at $2.10 a piar and they work great.

http://www.lenexpo-electronics.com/1...G-p-16213.html

How exactly does the wire fit into those banana plugs? Would you happen to have some sort of walkthrough, with pictures preferrably or is it something that's pretty much elementary....just wrapping the wire around the threads then screwing it in?

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post #16 of 21 Old 01-24-2007, 03:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Da Rafsta View Post

How exactly does the wire fit into those banana plugs? Would you happen to have some sort of walkthrough, with pictures preferrably or is it something that's pretty much elementary....just wrapping the wire around the threads then screwing it in?

Go to that link then scroll down to the bottom for more pictures. It's pretty simple, you just remove about 1/8" insulation from around the bare wire. then slide the wire in from the rear, bend the bare wire back and press it tight against the plug spreading it as evenly as possible, don't get into the threads with the wire you'll have troulbe srewing it in the houseing if you do. Screw the rear part in the plugs housing and your done, the front also screws in so tighten it. That gives you the compression between the front and back to hold the wire in.
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post #17 of 21 Old 04-12-2007, 09:59 PM
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I suck at stripping 14AWG speaker wire from monoprice.com. I'm using a stripper designed to cut the sheath off of 14awg copper. I keep on messing up and taking some strands of copper with it. I've already gone through 4 inches of wire thanks to all of these failures.

Online there are various tutorials and none seem to offer adequate help. They say I'm supposed to cut the sheath and then pull away gently. The sheath is on there good and I don't see how it's going to come gently.

Any advice would be appreciated.

I noticed that every time I make a cut, it never seems to cut through all the way hence why I can't pull the damn thing off.
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post #18 of 21 Old 04-13-2007, 12:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Da Rafsta View Post

How exactly does the wire fit into those banana plugs? Would you happen to have some sort of walkthrough, with pictures preferrably or is it something that's pretty much elementary....just wrapping the wire around the threads then screwing it in?

For a visual of what Jakeman02 is saying go to speakerrepair [dot] com

(sorry, I can't post links with fewer than 5 posts) and search for item BR28; they have some nice pictures. [Edit:] Ooops. Nevermind; didn't realize the original posts were so old.



Quote:
BIOJECT wrote:
I suck at stripping 14AWG speaker wire from monoprice. I'm using a stripper designed to cut the sheath off of 14awg copper. I keep on messing up and taking some strands of copper with it. I've already gone through 4 inches of wire thanks to all of these failures.

Buy a wire stripper that goes up to at least 12ga at your local hardware store. Home Depot has one that does any wire from 18ga up to 10ga for $8.00US; item number 45-120.

[Edit:] Wait; it sounds like you are using a wire stripper. Did you separate the two wires first before using the stripper? Pull the wires apart first (you may need a small knife to nick the plastic inbetween to get them started, then separate them), then use the wire stripper on each.

Good luck.

- Chris
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post #19 of 21 Old 04-13-2007, 03:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfe_CH View Post

For a visual of what Jakeman02 is saying go to speakerrepair [dot] com

(sorry, I can't post links with fewer than 5 posts) and search for item BR28; they have some nice pictures. [Edit:] Ooops. Nevermind; didn't realize the original posts were so old.





Buy a wire stripper that goes up to at least 12ga at your local hardware store. Home Depot has one that does any wire from 18ga up to 10ga for $8.00US; item number 45-120.

[Edit:] Wait; it sounds like you are using a wire stripper. Did you separate the two wires first before using the stripper? Pull the wires apart first (you may need a small knife to nick the plastic inbetween to get them started, then separate them), then use the wire stripper on each.

Good luck.

- Chris


Of course I separated them before cutting. I took a piece to my mechanic and he concluded that the strippers I were using sucked. So I guess it's time for a new one.

what happens if I accidentally pull a strand of copper wire or two when removing the sheath? will it make any significant problems or should I not worry about it?
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post #20 of 21 Old 04-13-2007, 07:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIOJECT View Post

what happens if I accidentally pull a strand of copper wire or two when removing the sheath? will it make any significant problems or should I not worry about it?

A couple missing strands won't make any difference.

- Chris
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post #21 of 21 Old 04-16-2007, 06:20 AM
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I want to hook my HT-S790 up to my PC. I own a Soundblaster Audigy 2 sound card. On the back there are various plugs and half of them I have no idea what they do. There is one called "digital out." The digital out does not look like a normal optical cable nor does it seem to work with a coaxial cable. Maybe it's for a mini optical cable? If it is compatible with a mini optical cable, there is no mini optic input on the HT-S790 receiver. What cable would I buy to take advantage of this? There are also three audio outputs. So far I've only been using one of them for the two pc speakers. Any ideas what kind of cable would use all three?
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