Would a Onkyo TX-SR674 receiver work with my Panny speakers? - AVS Forum
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Old 05-03-2007, 09:41 AM - Thread Starter
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I currently have a Panasonic SC-HT40 (http://reviews.cnet.com/Panasonic_SC...tag=prod.txt.2)

I want to see if I can upgrade the receiver to the Onkyo TX SR674 (http://reviews.cnet.com/Onkyo_TX_SR6...?tag=pdtl-list) , and still use the same speakers at least for a little while.

Do yall think the new receiver would work with those speakers? I know it says no other speakers will work with the Panny receiver but what about the other way around?
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Old 05-03-2007, 09:46 AM
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Give it a try

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I quickly slipped it into my trusty PS3, and started playing.


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Old 05-03-2007, 09:50 AM - Thread Starter
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No, I'd rather wait for a better response lol. I would hate to be sitting on a $700 receiver and no speakers
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Old 05-03-2007, 10:07 AM
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Are the wires that connect the speakers ordinary speaker wire? Or do they have some weird plug?

Also, might check to see if the impedence of the speakers match the receiver.

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Old 05-03-2007, 10:11 AM
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I was curious as to why you (sh-c)ouldn't use other speakers with this unit so I downloaded the manual.

I think you'll have a tough time with any mid range receiver and these speakers because the specs for them are all over the map.

Position Eff Impedance
Front 78 dB 4 ohm
Surround 76 4
Center 82 6
Sub 78 6

I must believe that the Panny receiver is made to do some math on the output to balance the differing loads to the speakers?? Also, the 674 could probably drive the 4 ohm speakers at less than full crank but its range is given as 6-16 ohms

Another negative is the sub is line output driven but I believe the 674 has only a sub pre-out so it can't drive the sub directly. Other receivers, eg HK could probably do a better job with it.

Some days it's hardly worth chewing through the restraints.
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Old 05-03-2007, 10:13 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulpa View Post

Are the wires that connect the speakers ordinary speaker wire? Or do they have some weird plug?

Also, might check to see if the impedence of the speakers match the receiver.

The wire that goes to the back of each speaker is not removeable, Yes. If that is what you mean, I don't think you can switch wires.
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Old 05-03-2007, 10:15 AM - Thread Starter
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Ok so is there any other receiver that would be better than that Panny but still probably produce better sound through those speakers?

Since it seems you are saying the Onyko is going to have problems with it.

HK stand for Harmen Karden, I'm guessing?
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Old 05-03-2007, 10:27 AM
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Any quality receiver is going to have binding posts to insert ordinary speaker wire and tighten. Then you can use a number of speaker choices (either Onkyo's own brand or even better, speakers from dedicated speaker companies like Polk, Energy, or Infinity, etc.) Both Onkyo and HK are good makes.

The Panny speakers could probably be made to work with some wire clipping or some such, but I wouldn't recommend it. I'd just get all new speakers and a new receiver. (Yes, I realize you want to save money, but IMO it's not worth it to use the Panny gear because they've got it set up to not work with other makes.)

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Old 05-03-2007, 10:37 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulpa View Post

Any quality receiver is going to have binding posts to insert ordinary speaker wire and tighten. Then you can use a number of speaker choices (either Onkyo's own brand or even better, speakers from dedicated speaker companies like Polk, Energy, or Infinity, etc.) Both Onkyo and HK are good makes.

The Panny speakers could probably be made to work with some wire clipping or some such, but I wouldn't recommend it. I'd just get all new speakers and a new receiver. (Yes, I realize you want to save money, but IMO it's not worth it to use the Panny gear because they've got it set up to not work with other makes.)

So would you say with a better receiver, would it be possible that the sound quality will be better, or worse? And if better is it going to be a hassle to get it to work, sounds like you are saying just hooking up the cables in the back won't get it to work. Is that really so or would those speakers not just do the receiver justice. If their will be any upgrade in sound with the receiver and speakers that's really all I care about for now, I can worry about new speaker later.
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Old 05-03-2007, 10:39 AM - Thread Starter
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I'm just saying that because I've heard many people hear say that a better receiver than your previous would enhance sound better than your last on those same speakers, so either you are saying this is false or you are saying it's false based on the Panny speakers design which kinda blocks out the implementation of other receiver brands.
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Old 05-03-2007, 10:42 AM
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Yep on the HK

To use your speakers what you really want is a receiver or amp system that you can balance the speakers in. I think the HK models allow you to more closely tell the receiver what the speakers are. Here's why. If you look at your center speaker and then at your surround, there is an efficiency diff of 6 dB. In the linear world thats 4 times the loudness for the same signal level. Add to that a difference in impedance and there is little way a receiver can compensate unless you build it that way (thats what you have) or you can tell the receiver this is a 4 ohm speaker with etc etc.

If I remember correctly, G-star has HK gear so maybe he can tell you if this would work or not.

Some days it's hardly worth chewing through the restraints.
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Old 05-03-2007, 10:49 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrgribbles View Post

Yep on the HK

To use your speakers what you really want is a receiver or amp system that you can balance the speakers in. I think the HK models allow you to more closely tell the receiver what the speakers are. Here's why. If you look at your center speaker and then at your surround, there is an efficiency diff of 6 dB. In the linear world thats 4 times the loudness for the same signal level. Add to that a difference in impedance and there is little way a receiver can compensate unless you build it that way (thats what you have) or you can tell the receiver this is a 4 ohm speaker with etc etc.

If I remember correctly, G-star has HK gear so maybe he can tell you if this would work or not.

Yea but then looking at the HK it has no digital output, no HDMI almost nothing. It's almost just as lackluster a receiver as the panny. But you are saying it can be programmed to know the kind of speaker your are using or the power of your speakers so it can balance them out? Is their any other alternative that at least has a digital output? Thanks for the info by the way and I'll talk with G-star
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Old 05-03-2007, 10:52 AM
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Originally Posted by kicks View Post

So would you say with a better receiver, would it be possible that the sound quality will be better, or worse?

buying an onkyo 674 will just be throwing money at the problem, and will probably not even work for the reasons mrgribbles explained. you're going to need a specifically designed or extremely robust amp to drive speakers of such wildly varying impedance/sensitivities. the entry level H/K's won't cut it.

if you really want better SQ, you need better speakers. even the inexpensive receivers like the onkyo 504 will sound great with a pair of decent bookshelf speakers.

if poor SQ is bugging you that much, maybe you could sell the HTIB on ebay/craigslist and start over?

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Old 05-03-2007, 10:57 AM
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I don't think you're looking at the HKs I'm thinking of but talk with G-star. I'm pretty sure they have line outs for the sub and I think you can set the ohm ratings and xover points for individual speakers if not pairs, but he knows more about it than I. Good luck.

Edit: Sorry G-star you're quicker on the draw than I.

Some days it's hardly worth chewing through the restraints.
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Old 05-03-2007, 11:00 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by G-star View Post

buying an onkyo 674 will just be throwing money at the problem, and will probably not even work for the reasons mrgribbles explained. you're going to need a specifically designed or extremely robust amp to drive speakers of such wildly varying impedance/sensitivities. the entry level H/K's won't cut it.

if you really want better SQ, you need better speakers. even the inexpensive receivers like the onkyo 504 will sound great with a pair of decent bookshelf speakers.

if poor SQ is bugging you that much, maybe you could sell the HTIB on ebay/craigslist and start over?

That's the thing, it wasn't bugging me at all until I can to this forum lol. But just as easily as I started to want to upgrade, I will easily forget about the whole thing for now and get my moneys worth out of this month old system, maybe around the fall I'll get a whole new system, for now all this tech mumbo is cramping my style lol. Thanks for the help anyways guys, later days.
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Old 05-03-2007, 11:12 AM - Thread Starter
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One last question for the future

When value and pricing matters is it better to go with a component system or a HTIB?

Now my setup area is my basement which is about 15x20 with a 7foot ceiling


what I currently have gets really loud-too loud sometimes. The real only upgrade I would want is clearer sound, and better/clearer bass, I'm not into bringing the house down.

Like the biggest I will go is like a average sized bookshelf speakers for the front speakers and about a 10" sub. No tower speakers for me or huge subs
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Old 05-03-2007, 11:59 AM
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I knew you were full of BS, reading your prior post. You got the upgrade itch and VISA has the cure. LOL.

Some more mumbo jumbo. You have a tough room to work with. Very reflective, so no matter what you do getting something less harsh or to use the overworked term bright is going to be a chore until you add some things like carpet and something on the walls to absorb some sound. Some suggestions: Put your sub on a piece of acoustic pad type material. It will help with the bass delivery. Move your center off the wall to the top of your TV and angle it down toward you. They make a stand for this. Move your fronts a little further apart and toe them in so they are looking right at you. Experiment with position. Sorry, but welcome to HiFi land. If you do something along these lines you may actually find your present system OK. I know this doesn't help the VISA itch.

You have already done the HTIB route so the next path is component piece selection. Study the HTIB alternatives thread and you may find some experience in this kind of environment. Dipole or monopole speakers that are less directional may also help but these guys are usually bigger ticket items. Although I can't say this with any authority but the "sound bar" type system may work well for this room because of all the reflection you have.

You just aren't getting the easy answers today. But you yourself have recognized what you need when you said, "...what I currently have gets really loud-too loud sometimes."

Some days it's hardly worth chewing through the restraints.
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Old 05-03-2007, 12:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrgribbles View Post

I knew you were full of BS, reading your prior post. You got the upgrade itch and VISA has the cure. LOL.

Some more mumbo jumbo. You have a tough room to work with. Very reflective, so no matter what you do getting something less harsh or to use the overworked term bright is going to be a chore until you add some things like carpet and something on the walls to absorb some sound. Some suggestions: Put your sub on a piece of acoustic pad type material. It will help with the bass delivery. Move your center off the wall to the top of your TV and angle it down toward you. They make a stand for this. Move your fronts a little further apart and toe them in so they are looking right at you. Experiment with position. Sorry, but welcome to HiFi land. If you do something along these lines you may actually find your present system OK. I know this doesn't help the VISA itch.

You have already done the HTIB route so the next path is component piece selection. Study the HTIB alternatives thread and you may find some experience in this kind of environment. Dipole or monopole speakers that are less directional may also help but these guys are usually bigger ticket items. Although I can't say this with any authority but the "sound bar" type system may work well for this room because of all the reflection you have.

You just aren't getting the easy answers today. But you yourself have recognized what you need when you said, "...what I currently have gets really loud-too loud sometimes."

Moving the speakers is like an impossiblity because 3 out of the four speakers have wires that are too short. The one on the right if you are sitting on the couch is as strung out as a guitar string that's as far as that goes from where I have the receiver, and I can't move that receiver to the middle because my left rear speaker would be in front of me from my sitting position. This is one of the main reasons why I want to upgrade the system. I know that i'm not utilizing proper speaker placement which hurts the setup. The front 2 speakers are run through the stand which cut down on the length of their wires. I could stretch it out by taking the out but then they will be dangling and will be an even uglier look. So you see it's a real pickle of a situation. As for the center speaker I can move it now no problem, I just worry that all the vibration might damage my tv or something
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Old 05-03-2007, 12:29 PM
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You can splice wire. Not that big a deal really. I see your point, but no matter how much you throw at this, you're going to have to address these issues. Might as well be sooner than later. I'd hate to see you get a set of Super Rocket v-20000's with turbo tweeters and the like, only to be in the same pickle.

Some days it's hardly worth chewing through the restraints.
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Old 05-03-2007, 12:48 PM - Thread Starter
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So now go through the trouble to get a soldering gun and burn myself trying to do this lol. Think I'll just use what I have for a bit and get a new HTIB, I think I will get an Onkyo HTIB, or a $300-$500 receiver from either denon, yamaha, onkyo and then get some Onkyo speakers. Then if I ever want to upgrade it should be easier. I just say that the $300 Harman Karden does have 3 digital optical so I might give that a go.
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Old 05-03-2007, 01:01 PM - Thread Starter
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What is the best quality receiver in the $300-$400 price range
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Old 05-03-2007, 01:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kicks View Post

...and then get some Onkyo speakers.

if you're buying speakers separately, there are a myriad of better options than what onkyo has to offer. polk, energy, athena, advent, def tech, AV123, SVS, HSU, infinity, JBL, etc. etc.

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Old 05-05-2007, 10:12 AM
 
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what kind of answer is that?
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Old 05-05-2007, 10:13 AM
 
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Originally Posted by G-star View Post

if you're buying speakers separately, there are a myriad of better options than what onkyo has to offer. polk, energy, athena, advent, def tech, AV123, SVS, HSU, infinity, JBL, etc. etc.

Onkyo makes excellent HTIB'S and gives you excellent value for your $$$. Don't be oversold.
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Old 05-05-2007, 10:18 AM
 
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Originally Posted by kicks View Post

One last question for the future

When value and pricing matters is it better to go with a component system or a HTIB?

Now my setup area is my basement which is about 15x20 with a 7foot ceiling


what I currently have gets really loud-too loud sometimes. The real only upgrade I would want is clearer sound, and better/clearer bass, I'm not into bringing the house down.

Like the biggest I will go is like a average sized bookshelf speakers for the front speakers and about a 10" sub. No tower speakers for me or huge subs

Get the HT-S790. Check out the reviews at amazon.com epinions.com circuit city.com, etc. and you will get real users opinions. Good Luck.
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Old 05-05-2007, 10:19 AM
 
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G-Star: What is your commission on sales?
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Old 05-06-2007, 11:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flags View Post

what kind of answer is that?

those companies make better speakers than onkyo HTIB speakers.

Quote:


Onkyo makes excellent HTIB'S and gives you excellent value for your $$$. Don't be oversold.

they make very good HTIB's. however, they are not the answer for everyone, and there are better performing systems at a similar pricepoint. i'm speaking from experience, as i have owned both an onkyo HTIB and separates.

Quote:


Get the HT-S790. Check out the reviews at amazon.com epinions.com circuit city.com, etc. and you will get real users opinions.

those opinions are mostly from people who have nothing to compare it too. also, how many people are going to take the time to write an online review at sites like those that basically say "i made a foolish purchase"? most online customer reviews are skewed to the positive. the psychology of the buying process gets in the way of objectivity.

Quote:


G-Star: What is your commission on sales?

that's funny coming from the resident onkyo pitch-man. i only offer advice based on my experience with HTIB's and separates. obviously you are insecure about the system you purchased, so you have to come here and scream to everyone that its the best and they should get it too, so that your decision will be validated.

it is really just sad and pathetic.

"That's right Mr. Martini...there is an Easter Bunny".
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Old 05-06-2007, 12:09 PM
 
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Originally Posted by G-star View Post

those companies make better speakers than onkyo HTIB speakers.


they make very good HTIB's. however, they are not the answer for everyone, and there are better performing systems at a similar pricepoint. i'm speaking from experience, as i have owned both an onkyo HTIB and separates.


those opinions are mostly from people who have nothing to compare it too. also, how many people are going to take the time to write an online review at sites like those that basically say "i made a foolish purchase"? most online customer reviews are skewed to the positive. the psychology of the buying process gets in the way of objectivity.


that's funny coming from the resident onkyo pitch-man. i only offer advice based on my experience with HTIB's and separates. obviously you are insecure about the system you purchased, so you have to come here and scream to everyone that its the best and they should get it too, so that your decision will be validated.

it is really just sad and pathetic.

The solution is really very simple. Go to your local Circuit City, etc. and let your ears do the buying. More people will walk out with Onkyo than any other brand. Why do you think they sell so many HTIB? Word of an excellent product gets around quickly. So settle down and calm down.
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Old 05-06-2007, 02:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flags View Post

The solution is really very simple. Go to your local Circuit City, etc. and let your ears do the buying. More people will walk out with Onkyo than any other brand. Why do you think they sell so many HTIB? Word of an excellent product gets around quickly.

ugh, i give up. you choose to address nothing i said, rather, you'll just continue on plugging the only thing you've ever experienced like its God's Gift To Mankind.

i guess it is my fault for believing i could get through to someone with no clue and such an obvious agenda.

i'm punching out.

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