Gluing wood on WA? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 9 Old 01-19-2009, 09:24 PM - Thread Starter
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I haven't seen anyone talk about gluing wood (fur strips or 1x2s) to the back of wilsonart laminate. Does glue soak through? I have to attach my screen to the ceiling and drop it 5-6 inches to allow my center speaker to penetrate the room. Therefore I don't want to go the 80/20 route.
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post #2 of 9 Old 01-20-2009, 02:57 AM
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I asked about using glue (specifically gorilla glue) on my screen and was strongly dissuaded from it. Then again I was talking about gluing the wooden screen border to the front of the screen, and you're talking about the backside, so maybe you'll get a different answer.

One other idea that I was given that may help your situation as well was to sandwich the laminate between 2 pieces of wood and screw them together. The piece on the front is your velvet covered screen border, and on the rear I cut some strips of pine or you could use your 1x2's or whatever. Clamp it all together and screw in from the rear with a screw not long enough to penetrate the front. Some of the strips in the back can even be cut into cleats if you want for hanging. That's how I've decided to finish off my screen.

So am I understanding correctly that your screen will be attached to the ceiling but hung with 5-6'' of space so that your center channel speaker can be mounted between the ceiling and screen?
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post #3 of 9 Old 01-20-2009, 06:34 AM - Thread Starter
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Yes, I had originally planned on a acoustically permeable pull down screen but didn't
like the gain options. I also like the look of visible speakers compared to in wall stuff, I guess I'm old school, flashbacks to the theaters of the late 70s. I want to use wood because I can attach an eye hook and hang about 6-8 inches from ceiling. I'm just worried that the glue will show. I already have the pre-stickied velvet from here
carlofet .coms page
so I don't really want to have wood on the front at all. And I'd love to leave a little room around the outside to allow for rope lighting if I decide to do that....
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post #4 of 9 Old 01-20-2009, 08:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TriChiro View Post

I haven't seen anyone talk about gluing wood (fur strips or 1x2s) to the back of wilsonart laminate. Does glue soak through? I have to attach my screen to the ceiling and drop it 5-6 inches to allow my center speaker to penetrate the room. Therefore I don't want to go the 80/20 route.


The WA DW Laminate is a opaque material. Light cannot pass through it so anything "dark" behind it or applied to it's rear surface cannot effect whatever is happening on the other side.

Although it may be possible to use a caustic adhesive (petroleum based) that could be absorbed to a small extent, anything used that reacted violently enough to the rear side of such laminate to allow a 'shadow or stain' to show through would most likely wind up dissolving the material.

Your bigger concern, especially if your using the thinner laminate is the potential for "bumps' and "ridges" of adhesive to show. This is why many prefer a "water-thin" adhesive like Contact Cement....and that's a good choice because that's what cabinet installers use most often as well. Both Parties want/need it to be done right the first time.

You can easily find a "Liquid Nails For Foam Paneling" that will hold very well if it has a considerable footprint. Using a "wide" frame surface is the way to make sure you'll have lots of "stick to" surface.

If you make that "Rear Frame" out of 1" x 6" Kiln Dried Clear Poplar w/Mitered corners, and apply/trowel out the LNFP until it covers all the wood surface to be joined to the WA-DW, and then press it into place, upon drying it won't be going anywhere without being accompanied by the WA-DW

The secret in using any adhesive for such a purpose is to select one with a high bonding strength, but a moderate "Work Time". The latter will allow you the time to spread it out thinly. (no lumps or bumps) Don't be chintzy with the adhesive, (...a big mistake many make...) apply enough that it does in fact spread out like a even frosting.

After wards, reinforce the Mitered Corners with "L" brackets. The resulting framework will be sufficient to hold the laminate Flat since 1' x 6"s were used around the perimeter. Such a frame will also allow you to install additional Trim later via the "Sandwich" method previously described, and/or "Ledge Trim" on the rear side on which to attach Rope Lighting, as well as support the screen via Hook-Eye Chains, or any one of several "hangers" such as the Hangman (French Cleat) system.

I'll digress....you should have no problems with any well selected adhesive, if applied properly.

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"
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post #5 of 9 Old 01-20-2009, 01:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks a ton Old man river.....The only last question I'd have would be regarding the
width of the frame. Should I go thicker than 1" in order to attach the eye hooks that will hang from the ceiling? Is there a better hang from the ceiling method that I am missing? My center speaker is an onkyo that protrudes about 12" from the wall...I'd rather not have the speaker poke over the screen, hence not french cleating the screen to the wall. Thanks, tri
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post #6 of 9 Old 01-20-2009, 04:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TriChiro View Post

Thanks a ton Old man river.....The only last question I'd have would be regarding the
width of the frame. Should I go thicker than 1" in order to attach the eye hooks that will hang from the ceiling?

No need there....you can pre-drill a straight, centered "starter Hole" that is 2/32nd inch smaller than the Eye's thread and insert the screw without fear of splitting anything.

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Is there a better hang from the ceiling method that I am missing? My center speaker is an onkyo that protrudes about 12" from the wall...I'd rather not have the speaker poke over the screen, hence not french cleating the screen to the wall. Thanks, tri

Well, you asked......

TriChiro, if I was presented with such a problem, the need of 12" of Screen encroachment off the Wall to allow for a "Flush" look for a Center Speaker, the last thing I'd consider is "A Hanging". (cue the Flute) Too Barbaric, too......well, make do-ish.

You see, I'm all for the cosmetic approach. Simple aesthetic design...functional, yet having a degree of "WoW" factor.

You want to build a stout frame? 1"x 6" quality Poplar gets that accomplished.

Instead of the Medieval "Ropes and Chains" method, how about a little 21st century "Illusion"?

I've made up a Line Drawing showing how you could "Float" the DW Screen out 12.5" from the Wall. This I think would be in keeping with your plans to install Rope lighting later. This is a "Way Cool" look, and really pretty simple and straightforward. The idea is there, you/anyone could use different materials to make essentially the same thing.

Anyway, don't get too "hung up" over it all. For a "Few Dollars More" you can "Hang it High", and it'll be "all Good" not "Bad or Ugly".


To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"
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post #7 of 9 Old 01-20-2009, 04:43 PM - Thread Starter
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So, Great with the humor and with the DIY....You may just have saved me a lot of hassle keeping my kids (2 and 4) from swinging the screen daily...Its in a dedicated theater room so your idea looks great. What diy tool would you recommend to make the 1 1/2" cut-in on the hanger. Secondly, how would the dowel rod attach to both the wall and the frame?
ps. the WA dimensions are 107 x 60...
pps. I feel indebted to you...Any medical questions, I'm a dr.......
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post #8 of 9 Old 01-21-2009, 08:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TriChiro View Post

So, Great with the humor and with the DIY....You may just have saved me a lot of hassle keeping my kids (2 and 4) from swinging the screen daily...Its in a dedicated theater room so your idea looks great. What diy tool would you recommend to make the 1 1/2" cut-in on the hanger.

I'd use a Skill Saw myself, being the depth and width of the "notch" is well within the boundaries of even a 5-1/2" Mini Blade. But be careful to support/brace that piece so that it doesn't move while you slice and dice, especially when you do the cut on the "End". Use a new and sharp blade with a Tooth number best for "Paneling" as that blade will be less inclined to make the wood jerk toward the rotation of the Saw. The Fine tooth Blade (120 Tooth) will also give you a exceedingly smooth cut.

Set the depth of the Blade to the required depth, then simply cut along a visible measured Line. Should be no problemo.


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Secondly, how would the dowel rod attach to both the wall and the frame?

The inclination for any such material that is hung via a support that is so far toward the Top will be for the Bottom to pitch inward toward the wall. If you didn't have a Urchin Infestation to deal with, gravity and the opposing rearward tension would hold the screen in place against the "end" of the protruding pole. Been there....done that too.

But as that is not the case here, and short of using 2" x 2" Lumber, and making it as strong as a Jungle Gym, here's what I suggest.

At the point where the interior Braces are, install a simple "Closet Pole Hanger Bracket" on the Brace, and a "Closed Circle" Closet Pole Bracket opposite to that point on the Wall....should be easy enough to manage if the location was well thought out as to the spacing/location of the Interior Upright Screen Braces, as they should be directly opposite a Stud anyway so the Wall hangers also share that "support". Insert the Pole in the Bracket that is on the Wall using 1-5/8" Screws, then slide the other end of the Pole down into the "U" Cup Bracket. Those Brackets have small holes in each side or the bottom so that they can be locked into place using a small Brass Screw.

Certainly not Brain Surgery, but more akin to making a Crutch to lean on.

Quote:


ps. the WA dimensions are 107 x 60...

My kind of Screen. Can you Miter Cut lumber? Can you access a actual Miter Saw? (....that will make doing precision cuts a snap!) You really want to do so in this case, for the Screen Frame, wall hangers, and any eventual Velvet Trim will all need such in order to have the strongest possible junctions. If you cannot do so, let me know because there are other ways....ways that involve using 3" Coarse Threaded Utility Screws shot through one 2" x 4" deep into another laid over it. I hope you don't have to go there because that sort of "build" looks almost "Tree House" like and is not in keeping with what should be in a Dedicated Theater Room. After all, your "Floater" will attract a lot of attention....and subsequent "critical' inspection, so you want a clean, finished look about the whole affair.

I know it sounds like a hassle, but sanding all your Wood at least lightly, then painting it Black (...outside surfaces of the Screen Frame and Braces & protruding "Hanger" pieces) and painting the Lumber on the Wall the wall color will add a real nice touch that bespeaks that you took a little bit of "extra" care to make it look "extraordinary"

Quote:


pps. I feel indebted to you...Any medical questions, I'm a dr.......

If you only knew, you'd retract that offer quickly. If you think my posts about "DIY Screen Making" can get long and involved........well, let's not go there!

This little project is in keeping with exactly the sort of thing I like to see done in such demanding situations. It will be adjudged "different and innovative" by your Peers (...if that matters...) and so add to the degree of your own personal satisfaction index. Your already ahead of the Game by opting to make a Screen out of a unexpected material that will perform far above yours and everyone else's who sees it expectations. Just be sure to get a "Killer Deal" on a PJ, calibrate it so as to get an astounding image, and everything will come together to make your Theater a cut & above the ones your Neighbors and Friends spent "too much for too little" for.

That's the best part! Watching them shake their heads in shame and envy. (...after their Eyes pop back into their heads.)

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"
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post #9 of 9 Old 01-22-2009, 09:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TriChiro View Post

I want to use wood because I can attach an eye hook and hang about 6-8 inches from ceiling. I'm just worried that the glue will show.

FWIW you could certainly do the same thing with 8020 alumininum framing, i'd trust an eye hook secured properly into aluminum more then I would into wood! (would into wood? hmm..) The 8020 will likely end up around the same weight or lighter, and stronger without risk of warping/bending, and at a similair price.

Aluminum in general is VERY easy to drill / work with. Just pick up a set of cobalt steel drill bits designed for drilling STEEL specifically (home depot has em etc). The main difference is their head angle, it's ussualy a spit 30 degrees, which is much more shallow then bits made for wood. And they're super sharp / hard as they cobalt steel. The only cavaet with drilling aluminum is it tends to try and "stick" to the bit, make sure the bit is clean with each drill. Drill at low speeds, and it's like cutting butter.

I like MM's drawing and suggestion, but you could do these same things with 8020 too. They make all sorts of cross peices and tees and joiners and accessory attachments etc in their quick frame product line. IT would be easier to construct (just hammering plastic into aluminum), stronger, and lighter. Not to mention you can disassemble it easily and make changes.

Just a thought. :-)
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