RS-MaxxMudd Mix (the official) - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 154 Old 04-15-2009, 07:28 AM - Thread Starter
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This will serve as the official RS-MaxxMudd V2 updated mix thread...

This thread will serve as the official RS-MaxxMudd V.2 Mix... it owes is ancestory to MMudd and this MaxxMudd thread before it:
the original RS-MaxxMudd thread... http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...ht=rs+maxxmudd

RS-MaxxMudd v.2

RS-MaxxMudd Retro v.2
(darkest and highest gain of the rs-maxxmudd mixes, note the amount of SILVER in the mix)

20 oz Liquitex Basics Silver Metallic
8 oz Delta Pearl Finish #02601
6 oz Behr 1850 UPW Flat

12 oz Minwax PolyAcrylic Satin Finish
15 oz distilled/tap water**

----------------------------------

RS-MaxxMudd v.2(for low to moderate ambient light)

16 oz. Liquitex Basics Silver
12 oz. Delta Pearl Finish #02601
8 oz. Behr 1850 UPW flat

12 oz. Minwax Polycrylic - Satin finish
15 oz. distilled/tap water**


----------------------------------


RS-MaxxMudd HGC v.2
(for high gain contrast bat caves ht's)

20 oz. Delta Pearl Metallic #02601
12 oz. Liquitex Basics Silver
9 oz. Behr UPW flat

12 oz. Minwax Polycrylic - Satin finish
15 oz. distilled/tap water**

------------------------------

RS-MaxxMudd LL v.2(for lower lumen pj's and controlled light home theaters)

20 oz. Delta Pearl Metallic #02601
8 oz. Liquitex Basics Silver
12 oz. UPW flat

12 oz. Minwax Polycrylic - Satin finish
15 oz. distilled/tap water**
---------------------------------
this is the only mix of the rs-maxxmudd family that can be rolled


The Liquitex Basics Silver is found at Michaels, Hobby Lobby, or Dick Blicks. (Artist's paint area)
The Delta Pearl Finish is also found at Michaels, Hobby Lobby, or Dick Blicks. (Craft paint area)
The Behr 1850 and Minwax Polycryic is found at Home Depot, Menards, Lowe's, Walmart, Ace.


** The suggested water amounts are best practices based upon Wagner CS DD and Plus models and also the Graco sprayer.
For the original Wagner CS spray, more water may have to be added... do so in 2oz increments


--------------------------

HISTORY: Formerly known as RS-MMMaxx... this mix was built from the foundations of the original MMudd and MMudd-SE

After a month of PM's with MM... RS-MMMaxx was introduced to AVS through the MMudd / SE thread...
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...&postcount=271

Here you will find the very first formula for RS-MMMaxx
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...&postcount=284

Here is MM introducing RS-MMMaxx Light Fusion for the very 1st time...


EVOLUTION of MMudd / SE ... to RS-MMMaxx ... to RS-MaxxMudd
- the Behr UPW component remains intact.
- the Delta Pearl replaced the Behr WOP... as it is a brighter white and contained more metallics. (Behr later retired WOP)
- the Behr Faux Silver Metallic was replaced by a Delta Pearl that has less 'lamp black' within it's silver base.
- Aug. '05, the concensous was... adding 3 to 4 oz to a QT of UPW of any silver or aluminum metallic resulted in crushed colors and white levels.
- using delta's silver metallic allowed the use of 2x,3x,4x the metallic ever successfully used before.
- Aug. '05, the concensous was... any amount of poly added to a paint mix was very limited...or simply unsuccessful.
- Minwax Polyacrylic - replaced the Behr Deep Base and proved the above poly misconception to be untrue.
- Polyacrylic is both a translucent agent for the metallics (for Light Fusion/Mirrors) & a viscosity agent for spraying, leveling, & increased work time.
- Behr's Deep Base was eliminated due it's nature to turn 'brown' when dried.
- Folk Art Champagne Metallic (Delta Pale Gold was retired)... helps to remove any slight blue push of the metallics and return warmth to flesh tones.


Screen Substrates:

TWH - Thrifty White Hardboard (found at Home Depot):
- tutorial for spraying TWH... http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...775&highlight=


Application Methods:

Wagner Control Spray:
- tutorial... http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...078&highlight=

.
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post #2 of 154 Old 04-15-2009, 07:31 AM
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Saved for painting Instructions on various Substrates

To quote James T. Kirk;
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post #3 of 154 Old 04-15-2009, 07:31 AM - Thread Starter
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Here are some early rs-mmmaxx test samples showing it's promise against a lighter MMudd (nearly white MMudd background screen).

The MMudd screen was a 1:1:1 screen. (1 qt Behr UPW, 1 qt Behr WOP - White Opal Pearl, 1 qt Behr Deep Base)

Note the white levels and color correctness remain intact with little to no crush against the whiter screen.
However, the black levels are increased, resulting in both a real and percieved contrast over the MMudd screen.

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post #4 of 154 Old 04-15-2009, 07:32 AM
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post #5 of 154 Old 04-15-2009, 07:32 AM
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post #6 of 154 Old 04-15-2009, 07:33 AM
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post #7 of 154 Old 04-15-2009, 07:34 AM
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PB.....,

If you want me to remove...or reinsert any of the above just PM me and let me know.

To quote James T. Kirk;
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post #8 of 154 Old 04-15-2009, 11:26 PM
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Nice to see this mix updated and documented - looking forward to the pics.

Thanks Pete!

Garry
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post #9 of 154 Old 04-16-2009, 05:24 AM
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Here is a great supplemental thread on RS-MaxxMudd

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=713810


Bud

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post #10 of 154 Old 04-16-2009, 06:38 AM - Thread Starter
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first let me say thanks to tiddler for his testing... i helped him out as much as i could in the background... but was unable at the time to do much else.

it's been 2 years since tiddler's initial test panels and is but one subset of rs-maxxmudd when rolling is involved.

since then due to silver fire taking over the ambient light responsibility...

rs-maxxmudd has evolved into a more controlled lighting mix.

the overall mix is both lighter in color and also contains a greater amount of metallics as well.
therefore, what you will find is that has even better white levels and greater gain than even tiddler's testing.
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post #11 of 154 Old 04-16-2009, 06:57 AM
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PB
Do you or others have any plans to repeat the tests with the new and improved mixes? The testing protocol used in the BW testing was much more refined and would be a good model to follow. I would be willing to help in any way possible.

I don't know maybe you already have this done in the photos you plan on posting in the above reserved posts.


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post #12 of 154 Old 04-16-2009, 07:20 AM
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I currently have "Behr UPW Exterior Flat" screen. If I want to use this MUDD mixture in future, can I apply it directly over my current screen?
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post #13 of 154 Old 04-16-2009, 07:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevenkapoor View Post

I currently have "Behr UPW Exterior Flat" screen. If I want to use this MUDD mixture in future, can I apply it directly over my current screen?

Absolutely so. One of it's main advantages is that it's designed to use a White base coat to help maintain gain and the quality of white reproduction.

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post #14 of 154 Old 04-16-2009, 09:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post


A "REAL' offer coming from someone with real interest would be very welcome.

For a 24" x 48" test panel, does this mix have to be sprayed, or can it be rolled?
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post #15 of 154 Old 04-16-2009, 11:03 AM
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Kbgl
Yes I do believe this paint has to be sprayed in order to make any testing valid. The original method of doing it allowed rolling but as of late I think all metallic paints need to be sprayed, at least sprayed if any testing is to be done.




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post #16 of 154 Old 04-21-2009, 05:55 AM
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So I need some help today.
Sprayed the RS-MaxxMuddd over 2 coats Killz2 which was over my silverscreen w/poly top coat painted drywall screen.
First coat went great! Wagner is incredibly easy to use!
Second and third coats? Hard to say..
Across the top right I seem to have a stripe of slightly darker gray. Like a slight shadow. I also have a spot in the top middle where I know I sprayed it heavier. I did this last night and it's still slightly visible this morning. Could it still be drying/curing?
When PJ is on, darker spots are barely there but I still see them.
What do I do??
I can say between the 3 coats I didn't use much paint. Filled the smaller jug of the Wagner about 2/3 full and used maybe half of that.
Do I need more, heavier coats all over to match the darker areas? Do I leave alone? Do I sand, prime, and start over??
Feeling very anxious this AM about how to fix this... Now I have to sit at work all day and think about it

A side note, the Wagner really is great and I wouldn't want to dissuade anyone else from giving it a try. Even as a complete novice I got mostly excellent results. Just being a perfectionist. Oh yeah, and the color really pops with this mix!

Brian W
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post #17 of 154 Old 04-21-2009, 06:35 AM - Thread Starter
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rabbi,

hear me out...
when rolling, i recommend that folks go with 3 to 4 coats.
however, more often than not, on a TWH board (due to it's additional shiny surface) it ends up being 4 coats to knock out it's surface sheen.

but you are using a wagner, which only sprays out about 1/2 the amount of paint of a single rolled coat... before that sprayed coat starts to run.

therefore, i would recommend only a very slight brush sand down followed by 2 to 3 additional coats for a near perfect finish.
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post #18 of 154 Old 04-21-2009, 07:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pb_maxxx View Post

rabbi,
therefore, i would recommend only a very slight brush sand down followed by 2 to 3 additional coats for a near perfect finish.

lightly sand just the darker areas or the whole screen?
Overall screen has a somewhat "powdery" feeling texture. very interesting.

Brian W
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post #19 of 154 Old 04-21-2009, 07:15 AM - Thread Starter
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do not focus only on the dark areas. instead lightly brush sand the whole screen.
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post #20 of 154 Old 04-21-2009, 07:27 AM
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will do. sorry if this is a stupid question but what do u mean by "brush" sand? Just a light sanding with sand paper?

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post #21 of 154 Old 04-21-2009, 07:31 AM - Thread Starter
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you are right. longer more sweeping strokes as you lightly sand the entire surface.
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post #22 of 154 Old 04-21-2009, 09:30 AM
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got it. thanks again

Brian W
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post #23 of 154 Old 04-21-2009, 10:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rabbi7 View Post

lightly sand just the darker areas or the whole screen?
Overall screen has a somewhat "powdery" feeling texture. very interesting.


Hmmmm...., that tells me your paint is coming from too far away, or your moving too fast, except when you slowed down and put more (the correct) amount of paint up. The "Darker" areas are more coverage, the lighter areas weaker coatings. A well done sprayed screen should have a somewhat slippery feel to it, yet maintain a lack of sheen, looking more "Flat" than "Satin".

The direct opposite thinking involves dusting a "glossy' surface to lessen the surface reflectivity by introducing the slight, powdery" texture you have.

I stand behind 12" distance and 1' per second across the surface with 605 overlap.

//////////////////////////////////////

Sanding down the situation;

Use a "Sanding Sponge" if possible. Sand paper on a "block" is pretty unforgiving, and limited to the size sheet and block used.

Norton makes a 3" x 10" x 1" Sponge that is easy to grip, won't tear or wrinkle, and spreads your sanding pressure out across a much larger footprint.

Look for it at Home Deopt. The lest expensive is the "Re-Fill" whereas the Handle/Sponge combo is $10.00, and you should NOT use the handle assembly anyway.

Myself, I'd be trying to "equalize" the darker areas with "
Feathering" technique and then re-coating the entire surface equally afterward.

But that's me...and I've done it a good many times.

Sanding down enough across the entire Board is correct, but in contrast to what PB said, focusing for a "brief" spell first on overtly heavy spots that have a different sheen than the rest of the screen isn't bad advice either. You don't do much of it, and you don't transgress onto the surrounding area, but if you do it right, when you sand the entire screen, those areas have already fallen back toward the correctly sprayed areas, and the remaining sanding is simply blending in sanded and non-sanded areas.

Of course as I stated above, it may well be a case where the spots you need to sand are correctly covered, and the surrounding areas are the spots that are incorrect. Different problem....same solution however.

Next time, don't slow or hesitate in the middle of a Row (makes for a darker looking but brighter reflecting spot) And increase your speed across the surface a bit to avoid "striping". It's best-er to "dust" and have to apply 4-5 coats to cover than to have to deal with excessive paint in an area with Feathering or sanding, or both.

And last...often the Top Row or Bottom Row gets too much paint because your trying to make sure your getting a good lay down from the Gun along a edge as you start/as you finish. Check your spray pattern's size and position BEFORE you move onto the Screen's surface, then proceed with a even, measured pace...one fast enough to eliminate much variance of motion, but slow enough to be able to see what is happening before you.

It's a " getting it down via practice" sort of thing....and those who practice even a little seldom have the issues your facing. Some do....but very few

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post #24 of 154 Old 04-21-2009, 12:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post

Myself, I'd be trying to "equalize" the darker areas with "
Feathering" technique and then re-coating the entire surface equally afterward.

That's kind of what I'm thinking I'll try first. Maybe blending the darker areas a bit and trying to cover a little heavier all over with the next coat. I think I'm standing at a good distance per your instructions, but maybe going to fast.

I would imagine that if I put enough coats on things would equalize pretty well eventually. I think that's the main point both of you have helped me realize today.

Agree??

Brian W
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post #25 of 154 Old 04-21-2009, 03:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rabbi7 View Post

That's kind of what I'm thinking I'll try first. Maybe blending the darker areas a bit and trying to cover a little heavier all over with the next coat. I think I'm standing at a good distance per your instructions, but maybe going to fast.

Feathering in a weak spot starts with the Gun at right angle to the Screen and you sweep the spray pattern into/across the edge of the area then exit the other side with a similar motion where you start twisting the gun outwards away for the screen exactly when you cross into the far edge.

Starting at the screen's edge and going across, if it's a smaller, heavier spot in the middle you need to blend into, you simply Feather out when you reach it, and back in after is passes under you Gun.

Quote:


I would imagine that if I put enough coats on things would equalize pretty well eventually. I think that's the main point both of you have helped me realize today.

Agree??

Only in as much as it would solve the "unevenness" situation, but excessive coats of latex paint...even with Poly and water added...will eventually build up texture, which is not a good thing....and totally negate any beneficial effect having a White Base might offer. Spraying should be all about being able to get exactly the right amount of paint onto the surface for a given purpose. No more...and no less.

If you think you can equalize the screen's appearance with Feathering in weak areas, then do so, but be advised that a total screen sanding as suggested should then be performed when the screen is dry, and "THEN" you apply two, thin but even coats using the impeccable spray technique you've developed.



That's the way to do it...not dump enough paint onto the screen to cover up poorly done areas.

To quote James T. Kirk;
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post #26 of 154 Old 04-22-2009, 08:54 AM
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SUCCESS

Did a bit of feathering just to even out then 2 much heavier coats.
Nice smooth even finish now. Could probably do 1 more coat if I reeeeally wanted to be picky but I'm calling it good.

Very happy with results. Wife even commented on the vibrance of the colors and that it looked almost "3-D"

thanks again guys!

Brian W
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post #27 of 154 Old 04-22-2009, 09:37 AM
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Well then....,

That's a "Feather" in both our caps.

Your's is "Ostrich" sized though....

OK....now comes the Screenies!

Quote:
Originally Posted by rabbi7 View Post

SUCCESS

Very happy with results. Wife even commented on the vibrance of the colors and that it looked almost "3-D"

thanks again guys!

That "vibrancy" that is retained...even enhanced, while assisting the appearance of having deeper blacks and a wider contrast than would seem possible for a Gray surface is exactly what sets RS-MaxxxMudd & Silver Fire apart from similar mixes.

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post #28 of 154 Old 04-22-2009, 10:26 AM
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Did Rabbi7 do the RS-MaxxMudd (for moderate ambient light) or RS-MaxxMudd LL(for lower lumen PJ's, and for completely controlled lighting) or the original mix?

I think he said his old surface was silverscreen w/poly top coat.


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post #29 of 154 Old 04-22-2009, 10:55 AM
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yes, I did the RS-MaxxMudd listed at top of thread. Debated about using LL but went with the moderate ambient.
And yes, originally I had painted with Silverscreen w/poly top coat.
I had tried the "original" RSMM formula a while back, but couldn't obtain good results rolling. After a couple of tries, even with advice, it just wasn't perfect.
I opted to go the easier route at that time, but have missed the improved visuals I had briefly seen with the RSMM.
Thought it was time to give it another go and the sprayer made things quite easy overall.
Much easier than trying the roller methods and with much better results

Brian W
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post #30 of 154 Old 04-22-2009, 11:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rabbi7 View Post

yes, I did the RS-MaxxMudd listed at top of thread. Debated about using LL but went with the moderate ambient.
And yes, originally I had painted with Silverscreen w/poly top coat.
I had tried the "original" RSMM formula a while back, but couldn't obtain good results rolling. After a couple of tries, even with advice, it just wasn't perfect.
I opted to go the easier route at that time, but have missed the improved visuals I had briefly seen with the RSMM.
Thought it was time to give it another go and the sprayer made things quite easy overall.
Much easier than trying the roller methods and with much better results

Brian thanks for the quick answer. Just from what you remember was the Silverscreen w/poly top coat a darker shade of gray than what the RS-MaxxMudd looked like? or lighter or about the same?

Was there a big calibration change when you went with the RS-MaxxMudd?

I'm with MM we would love to see some screen shots if you have a means of doing such.

I also didn't catch what screen size you have or projector if you wish to share that info?


Bud

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