The Really Big Picture Show Revisited - A S-I-L-V-E-R - solution - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 12 Old 07-01-2009, 04:53 AM - Thread Starter
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(...previously posted on "Dedicated Home Theater Design & Construction" )

First off, a resounding "Thank You" to Calbear and his Wife for offering up their Home to a rather large crowd of avid HT Enthusiasts. We all trooped into and through their lovely Home, and were met with a most courteous welcome.

After meeting up at the appointed location, the veritable "Road Train" of vehicles gave the Gateman at the Sub Division a start, or at least I did...bringing up the rear.

But the biggest surprise lay in store for all of us as we first entered into the magnificent Theater.............

After almost 2 years absence after having painted the 16' x9' er S-I-L-V-E-R HG Screen, I was not prepared to see this......;



The Room was illuminated at the maximum level (...not too subtle but pleasingly comfortable...). Two downward firing "Spots" at each front corner of the Side Trays did splash directed light onto the bottom half corners of the screen, but all in all, I think I speak for most everyone in attendance when I say none of us...myself included...expected to see the Screen performing as well as it did above in such lighting.

I made a concerted effort to take Photos that accurately represent the room's lighting conditions, and the Screen's appearance as well all saw with our own Orbs. Only 2 Auto ISO Modes were used...200 & 800, dependent on the lighting levels and/or on-screen content. Black scenes were still a bit washed at the edges when the Spots that were positioned directly over the corners of the Screen were on...which was almost 90% of the time I was taking photos. But even so, when vivid content was up, the Screen presented an image not just watchable in ambient light, but actually stunningly so. It's been said before, but bears repeating;

A 16' x 9' Screen splashed w/a 700 Lumen* PJ shooting from a 27' throw onto a painted Drywall surface..................wow.
*Can't say fur shur but I'm betting Calbear has put at least some wear on the Bulb too. I KNOW I would have!
It was ventured by one of the attendees that the Screen must have a gain of 3.0-4.0 to perform as it was....and by yet another licensed "A/V Pro" in attendance that it (the Screen) should have been decidedly limited in viewing cone...which it wasn't, and not nearly as uniform in reflecting light across the vast screen acreage...which it was anyway. He came expecting the worst...and left...well, not really knowing what to think! But he's coming back...with a Photometer, to take accurate Gain measurements, if for no other reason to be able to stop scratching his head in wonder and amazement.



There were plenty of critical eyes there to attest to what was being viewed, and to all of them I bow to their opinions as to if the images I'm posting reflect a true and accurate approximation of what we all experienced.

Before anything else goes up, here are two Auto 800 & 200 ISO shots of the Theater in "Hand Stitched" Panoramic mode.





Everyone's memory should validate the wall / room's color, and how the "Panel Spots" between the Columns looked on the Red Velvet Cloth inserts, and such.

This shot shows how much the downward firing Spots affected the bottom corners of the Screen when they were "full on" and a dark image was on screen. (...coyly edited for prudish eyes )



When the Spots were turned down to create a barely noticeable perception of illumination, the end result on the Screen were some excellent Black levels. The Silver Metallic can lay claim to that end result. Silver metallic works both ways...to enhance reflectivity and depth of Color, and deepen Black Levels without crushing Whites

Almost completely Dark...........



Estimated 20% illumination...Calbear obliged me on this one by reducing those obnoxious over-ther Corner Spots.



Excellent "Darkroom" results!














At a very low but present Can Light luminance, no perceptible ambient light issues here!



OK...so much for the Screen, eh?

The Sound was very intense, but the Acoustical Trappings did their job quite well. The GUI / PC Screen for the HTPC Unit was absolutely brilliant! So very Cool!



Here is a Group Shot, with faces "high lighted" as best as I could with the meager tools and skill at hand.



A worthy effort? Hmmmmmmm..........

It was worth waiting for Calbear to "get'er dun". (...and Him not even "Loganed' either!) Worth the Sunday AM Air-jaunt up from LA. Worth getting lost 2 times getting to the meeting place in Livermore, CA driving from SFO. Worth the drive back to SFO Airport at 1 AM and waiting for a 6 AM Flight back to LAX to catch my 11:30 am flight to Memphis. Definitely worth the opportunity to commune with some of my fellow AVS'ers.

.......just plain worth it......

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"
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post #2 of 12 Old 07-01-2009, 06:48 AM
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Great stuff!!! Great theater!!! Great Screen!!!

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post #3 of 12 Old 07-01-2009, 08:27 AM
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This makes my 300" screen on concrete block seem, well, ordinary. I know SILVER originally caught my eye due to gain. However I'm still pleased with my rs-muddmaxxx.

Just a guess, the measurable gain isn't really as high as people think it is. After experiencing this first hand, it seems like metallics make the screen more 'watchable' and appear better than it really measures.

I don't think my big screen is much above 1.0 gain, mostly due to the horrible texture of the block, (which would put me at 10ft.lm max) but it sure views better than it should.

And since the 'official' measurement that counts, is the human (eye) camera... I'm not surprised that some walked away with their heads shaking in disbelief.

Good stuff, thanks for sharing.
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post #4 of 12 Old 07-01-2009, 09:15 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbelljbell View Post

This makes my 300" screen on concrete block seem, well, ordinary. I know SILVER originally caught my eye due to gain. However I'm still pleased with my rs-muddmaxxx.



Quote:


Just a guess, the measurable gain isn't really as high as people think it is. After experiencing this first hand, it seems like metallics make the screen more 'watchable' and appear better than it really measures.

Not just a "guess' but a pretty close approximation as to exactly what I've been saying since 2004.

Quote:


I don't think my big screen is much above 1.0 gain, mostly due to the horrible texture of the block, (which would put me at 10ft.lm max) but it sure views better than it should.

Absewlewwwtly....the texture is refracting much light at odd angles that do not benefit the impression of "straight - on Gain, but much compensation is afforded the Screen entire because of the surfaces that DO face forward being coated with a highly reflective and effective medium.

Quote:


And since the 'official' measurement that counts, is the human (eye) camera... I'm not surprised that some walked away with their heads shaking in disbelief.

Yeah...and it inspired some pretty dependable Folks to make assumptive determinations as to gain and effective performance....assumptions that had they came from me would be assailed fer shur!

Even so, myself, I hesitated for almost 2 years about even justifying a guess at anything over 2.0 gain, even though the performance envelope of that particular S-I-L-V-E-R example* clearly showed it was capable of a level of performance no other DIY application had shown before.

That niggling issue will be alleviated soon enough with the upcoming Gain measurements. and it will be fun to see where the chips fall. I'm still of the opinion that the gain will be at or just under 2.0. Or at most equal to the 2.8 Gain of a DaLite HP.....and that the appearance of "Very High Gain" is simply an attribute of the composition and application of the S-I-L-V-E-R HG

*btw, S-I-L-V-E-R application in the case above was in fact an example of a 90% - 10% Faux Glaze to Silver Metallic mix, (not 95% / 5%) using the Delta Silver Metallic instead of the old Behr SM. Also, it was applied until the surface was a bit more densely concentrated with Silver Metallic than a normal S-I-L-V-E-R would be. See below. This was intentional because of my knowing that only 700 lumens would be utilized, that the Screen area was going to be so large, and that the projected beam would be so diffuse as to allow more leeway as to avoiding potential Hot Spotting such a densely coated surface would offer in a smaller Screen.



I'd say I nailed it.

Quote:


Good stuff, thanks for sharing.

My distinct pleasure....believe it. And thank you as well.

To quote James T. Kirk;
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post #5 of 12 Old 07-01-2009, 03:36 PM
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Nice!!! I've often perused the old thread for education, as well as entertainment (edutainment ). It's awesome to see what an amazing theater this screen now resides in.

No matter how many times I see it, the effect that screen has on me never wears off.
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post #6 of 12 Old 07-01-2009, 04:36 PM
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For starters, I have an optoma hd65. Just starting out fellas and that's all the budgets allows. I can't get over the incredible detail in the pictures I'm seeing! How would I find out the exact paint that was used on these wall to make such a perfect screen. My basement is just getting finished and the walls will be smooth, so my father in law tells me. Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks a ton,
DAVE
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post #7 of 12 Old 07-02-2009, 05:42 AM
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stuck in illinois...
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post #8 of 12 Old 07-05-2009, 08:55 AM
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Impressive. The last shot is the most telling.

MM, could you fill us in on the hardware details? The 152 film library setup inparticular.
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post #9 of 12 Old 07-07-2009, 06:14 AM
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This looks like it could be the screen I need for my new theatre... Dedicated theatre, 22 feet wide by 30 feet deep. As I can't source a mirror, for a decent screen size, this application is probably going to be the best I can do....

I also need to buy a new projector ( sold the HS10 with my home) and was wondering what the best projector , under 3000.00, would be for this screen and size....
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post #10 of 12 Old 07-07-2009, 11:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swatkins View Post

This looks like it could be the screen I need for my new theatre... Dedicated theatre, 22 feet wide by 30 feet deep. As I can't source a mirror, for a decent screen size, this application is probably going to be the best I can do....

Hi swatkins!

Movin on up, eh? Cool Beans.

14' wide Screen sounds about right. Ya gotcher work cut out fer ya on the sound too. Try to group your Seating within 25' of the Screen wall, and make the width of the Seating area a wide as possible. 2 rows. 15' & 22'. Rear seats on a 8" Riser. I hope I can help you plan it out. I love that sorta stuff. Go figure?

Quote:


I also need to buy a new projector ( sold the HS10 with my home) and was wondering what the best projector , under 3000.00, would be for this screen and size....

Hard to do much better than the Epson 6500 for $2600.00 & a Free Bulb. But there are a few JVC RS-10s out there for 3k and that IS doing a lot better, w/Native Contrast of 35,000:1 and 1000 "ANSI" lumens


Well, this might be one of my last Posts until I return from Perth, AU on the 23rd. I will be checking the Forum every 2-3 days. Interesting Beers on Tap await. Some few DIY SF Screens as well. Anyone needing immediate help, turn to PB-Maxxx, or email me at invisible2u@comcast.net with a 1 Day lag time on responses minimum.

Crikey............ 23 hours on a Plane.

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"
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post #11 of 12 Old 10-26-2009, 10:30 PM
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So so nice one day. Please tell me what projector is installed in this theater is it a sim or any of the high high end ones? Just breathtaking perfection please if you can tell us what gear this theater uses. Wow!!!
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post #12 of 12 Old 10-26-2009, 11:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilovemyht View Post

So so nice one day. Please tell me what projector is installed in this theater is it a sim or any of the high high end ones? Just breathtaking perfection please if you can tell us what gear this theater uses. Wow!!!

The PJ this Theater used was a JVC RS1, from the first "AVS Power buy" allotment. While a very nice PJ indeed, at just 5K originally it's hardly to be considered a "High End PJ" cost wise.

Putting up 700 Lumens onto a 225" diagonal Screen was the issue that most people took for granted could not EVER work let alone work so very well. The credit goes specifically to the S-I-L-V-E-R DIY application.

Thanks for the compliments. Here are links to the Theater owner's own Thread where you can find out all the definitive info there is as to the build and equipment.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...=942954&page=1
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...942954&page=12

To quote James T. Kirk;
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