Swing up fixed frame screen (altenative to pull down) - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 43 Old 08-11-2009, 12:22 AM - Thread Starter
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Thought I would change the pace a bit and get to a screen build instead of....

Well after a hell of a lot of trial and error and wasted parts, I've finally (mostly) come up with a solution for my wanting a wave free fixed frame screen but the ability to retract that screen so that I can let the light in when I want to sit upstairs and read. As well as open the window at night to circulate the air.

This method is not my final choice but it does work well and the plan is to leave the screen in the retracted position unless we are watching a movie.

Several of you know that my screen hangs on my window trim with no problems. I got tired of pulling it down at night to open the window for the previously mentioned air circulation.

So here is what I built:

Although not finished, this is my last screen and I have one more paint job to do on the HT. My last screen was painted, finished and velvet trimmed, but spending time with my 4 year old son has first priority right now. The theater is in limbo for the time being.

Screen in "movie" mode. The last 3 were all like this one. Currently 120"


Corner bracket for aluminum frame. Great for strength, not great for square.


Material splined into front of screen. I have NEVER had a wave since going to this type of DIY fixed frame screen.
Far better, but not as easy as staples on the back of a wood frame.
Must be VERY careful when rolling the spline in.
See the scratches on the bottom of the screen. Not the dog hair but the horiz lines.


So my intent was to swing this thing up against the ceiling.
My max size held me at 120" diagonal because of the angle of the room trusses.
So I attached under mount drawer slides to the back of the frame.
With the under mount I could (not so) easily remove the screen from the
wall by simply pulling VERY hard on the slides.
To make a long story short, I thought that the hanging screen distance would
affect the retracted distance and interfere with a can light near the front
of my HT. So I essentially created a variable radius at the slide mounting point.
Well I measured incorrectly and had way more room than first
thought so in hindsight I could have built fixed length arms instead of slides.


I then had to build a spacer so that the screen would be parallel with the wall since the
slides would interfere in the back too. I also found some gate hinges that slid
almost perfectly into the drawer slide and permanently attached them with screws and bolts.



I then attached a window lock on the bottom so that I could swing it up against the ceiling.
I tried the high power NEO magnets first time around and couldn't get ones strong enough without them being too large.
I may revisit that idea again and I wish I was 4" taller. I wouldn't strain reaching for the lock that way.


And here is the retracted, open window, fresh air view. (pic taken at night)


Rob.

PS: I can give more detail on the screen itself if anyone has any questions.

ÂThe sheriff and his buddies with their samurai swords.....Â
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post #2 of 43 Old 11-18-2009, 03:57 PM - Thread Starter
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just a friendly bump for those that still my want to try this type of idea.

ÂThe sheriff and his buddies with their samurai swords.....Â
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post #3 of 43 Old 11-18-2009, 06:22 PM
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nice

chasing rattles ......

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post #4 of 43 Old 11-18-2009, 09:03 PM
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Sweet... This may be a great option for me. I have a window where I will eventually put my screen too. Not sure I understand how you built your hinges. The window lock is a great idea.

I would love to hear details about your screen. I am brand new to this hobby, so don't be afraid to oversimplify. :-) The frame is aluminum? Where did you get it? Did you have to paint it?
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post #5 of 43 Old 11-19-2009, 02:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy_P View Post

Sweet... This may be a great option for me. I have a window where I will eventually put my screen too. Not sure I understand how you built your hinges. The window lock is a great idea.

I would love to hear details about your screen. I am brand new to this hobby, so don't be afraid to oversimplify. :-) The frame is aluminum? Where did you get it? Did you have to paint it?

Billy, Yes the frame is aluminum. It is a 2x2 spline channel material that is used for screened patio/pool enclosures.



The hard part is finding it locally. Not many people up north have screened in outdoor pools. The first 2 I did with this material, I ordered from "Mike's Aluminum" out of Florida. Very nice folks over there and they knew what I was doing because several members on this site have used them.

This last time I got some local from a patio cover company that specializes in Alumawood brand Pergolas. I didn't have to pay shipping from Florida, but I did have to paint this one since it was white. After that just pick the material you want and spline it in. Just make sure your frame is square and flat. And make sure you put at least one support in the middle before you attach the material. I didn't do that on the last one and after stretching the material very tight the middle of the frame bowed about an inch.

Rob

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post #6 of 43 Old 11-19-2009, 03:23 PM
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Thanks for sharing your build, great idea, many will enjoy seeing what you designed.

What was your screen material ?

Did you build in a center vertical support bar ?


John
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post #7 of 43 Old 11-19-2009, 08:30 PM
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Thanks Rob. Your build inspired me to read the "sticky" FAQ thread at the top of the DIY screen forum, and I found several good ideas there, among which were a couple of aluminum frames. I may not put up a screen and projector for a year or two, but this looks like a lot of fun, and a great way to save some money! Thanks again for sharing your details and great pictures!
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post #8 of 43 Old 11-19-2009, 10:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDGTX View Post

Thanks for sharing your build, great idea, many will enjoy seeing what you designed.

What was your screen material ?

Did you build in a center vertical support bar ?

John

John, I did eventually put 1 center support in. It's 2" x 3/4", .120 walled square aluminum tubing. I needed a narrower profile simple for the fact that my window trim is rather large and I still wanted the screen to hang over the trim and not in front of it. Thus the reason for the thicker walled aluminum.

My screen material, as of this moment, is BOC with a few coats of Kilz. I have tried many of the DIY mixes here as well as some of my own concoctions and haven't settled on a final coat yet. BOC when stretched is rather easy to paint.

Rob

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post #9 of 43 Old 11-19-2009, 10:43 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy_P View Post

Thanks Rob. Your build inspired me to read the "sticky" FAQ thread at the top of the DIY screen forum, and I found several good ideas there, among which were a couple of aluminum frames. I may not put up a screen and projector for a year or two, but this looks like a lot of fun, and a great way to save some money! Thanks again for sharing your details and great pictures!

Food for thought.....

IF you can find the tubing I reference in that photo locally, the version of screen that I build will be the less expensive of the others and will be just as strong and lighter and most likely have less parts. (not including the material of course)

Rob

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post #10 of 43 Old 11-22-2009, 11:07 AM
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Thanks for a great thread. This looks great. I have been contemplating a project like this with the ceiling blacked out under the area the screen covers for some WAF during the day. I had some concern for the screen sagging and stretching over time if suspended horizontally and was trying to figure out a way to support it. Do you find the screen sags when suspended?

Derek
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post #11 of 43 Old 11-22-2009, 09:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dlouw View Post

Thanks for a great thread. This looks great. I have been contemplating a project like this with the ceiling blacked out under the area the screen covers for some WAF during the day. I had some concern for the screen sagging and stretching over time if suspended horizontally and was trying to figure out a way to support it. Do you find the screen sags when suspended?

Derek

Not noticeable. My screen is stretch extremely tight. So tight in fact that a couple of weeks ago I noticed that one of the screen splines had started to pull in the middle top.

When I get some motivation, I had planned on wrapping some fabric around the back side so that when the screen is up, it tries to blend with the ceiling color.

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post #12 of 43 Old 11-23-2009, 07:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dlouw View Post

Do you find the screen sags when suspended?

I've pondered a similar setup and worried about the same thing. Instead of a fabric screen, I have right now a Gatorfoam board as a screen, which is very light in weight and which could serve as support for your screen fabric if this was a concern long-term for you.

I just pick-up and move my GF board right now to a blank wall. I'd love to do as Highside has done if I could manage to make it work for my space...

My home theater
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post #13 of 43 Old 11-23-2009, 01:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laserfan View Post


I just pick-up and move my GF board right now to a blank wall. I'd love to do as Highside has done if I could manage to make it work for my space...

My home theater

Laserfan,

What is that screen I see in your pictures? Frame wrapped Gatorboard?

Looking at those pictures, I think you would be a good candidate for the version that I did. (with a slight modification)

Do you have approval to swing your screen up against the ceiling?

Rob

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post #14 of 43 Old 11-24-2009, 07:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Highside View Post

What is that screen I see in your pictures? Frame wrapped Gatorboard?

No, it's just an unadulterated Gatorfoam board (ten feet wide) with 2" sticky-backed black felt applied to the surface at the edges. If you look closely at the Sony 60" tv picture, you will see what look like bookends on either side of the stand which are notched, and which support the screen. Then I have a thin piece of wood tied to the drapery rod at top, which swivels-up and grabs the top edge to keep the board from tipping-over. Simple, maybe a little cheesy, but in this all-adult household it's worked for two years now, and these supports are invisible in operation.

Quote:


Looking at those pictures, I think you would be a good candidate for the version that I did. (with a slight modification)

Do you have approval to swing your screen up against the ceiling?

Approval? You mean from SWMBO? She can't imagine what it would look like and so is skeptical. I think we could put fabric on the backside of the GF, and it could look OK swivelled-up to the ceiling. And maybe a valance surrounding the thing or something to try to "hide" it.

Our present setup works "good enough" so I haven't been inspired to try as you've done, but I'm impressed with your work. What I don't like about what I'm doing now is that a) I have to physically lift/move/carry the screen to remove-or-replace it, risking a bump/dent/dropping (tho it is extremely light weight, it's somewhat unwieldy) and second b) it sits on the floor against a wall where it's visible and susceptible to more damage I suppose.

Tom

P.S. SWMBO = She Who Must Be Obeyed
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post #15 of 43 Old 11-25-2009, 08:12 AM - Thread Starter
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Tom,

Is there any reason you couldn't paint the back side of the Gatorfoam the same color as your ceiling?

Rob

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post #16 of 43 Old 11-25-2009, 08:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Highside View Post

Is there any reason you couldn't paint the back side of the Gatorfoam the same color as your ceiling?

No, though your question reminds me that I have, on occasion, thought of painting the backside with one of those fancy paint mixes we read about here all the time! For testing/grins/improvement/choice i.e. I could just turn the thing around for a different screen "look".

One of the many reasons I've been lazy to do anything different than I'm doing now!

BTW I'd want to take care not to paint the exposed edge of the GF board with any kind of paint that might "melt" the plastic (foam core I mean). Latex paint is prolly alright, dunno about this probably MississippiMan knows.
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post #17 of 43 Old 11-25-2009, 09:26 PM
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Nice screen. Here is mine that folds up a bit differently. The screen faces down when folded and uses counterweights.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...078&highlight=
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post #18 of 43 Old 05-17-2010, 02:31 PM
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Highside - How is the screen holding up? Thinking about exploring this route for a screen. Only place to have my screen currently is in front of the fireplace on wooden stands. Fine most of the time since it's an ugly fireplace and not needed unless really cold in winter. Current frame is the 1" square aluminum from 80/20. Thinking of extending the sides to the ceiling and have hinges to swing up.

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post #19 of 43 Old 07-08-2010, 01:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Bump

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post #20 of 43 Old 07-08-2010, 03:01 PM
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I see your bump and add some details.

I got some square tubing from 80/20 to extend the frame to the ceiling. Also got 90 degree living hinges from them to allow the screen to swing up flush against the ceiling. Hinges will be screwed into joist above where it is located now so moving the PJ won't be needed (dumb luck). Since the frame connections are nylon or plastic, I worry about the frame pulling apart under their own weight when down. I got some right angle and T braces to screw into the aluminum frame. I am also worried about the sintra screen material sagging and possibly falling out of the frame if left up too long. It is held in a half inch deep channel around the edges. I got a piece of aluminum stock I will screw in the middle from the top to the bottom behind the screen. I am going to take the screen apart soon and paint the back and sides white to match the ceiling when folded up. I will paint the front black until I can apply a proper black velvet border. Once it is all togehter I will pain the screen itself with RS-MaxxMudd Retro. Still need to figure out how to latch it when up. Also playing with the extension lengths to ensure that when folded up the latch mechanism is mounted in a joist in the ceiling. Dont want anything breaking loose and turning into a guillotine. I'm build that out in the garage.

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post #21 of 43 Old 07-11-2010, 01:22 PM
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Thanks for this very useful posting & great photos.

I am looking to make something similar & this is very useful.

-evan
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post #22 of 43 Old 12-30-2010, 01:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Bump for those that may find this useful.

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post #23 of 43 Old 02-09-2011, 10:21 AM
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That's a great idea, thank you for sharing.
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post #24 of 43 Old 02-11-2011, 09:41 AM
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Awesome idea!

I've been considering doing something similar with my fixed frame screen. What was the problem with the magnets? How many did you use?
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post #25 of 43 Old 02-11-2011, 01:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShadowKntSDS View Post
Awesome idea!

I've been considering doing something similar with my fixed frame screen. What was the problem with the magnets? How many did you use?
I bought some high powered neo magnets that were low profile and supposed to hold a 75lb load. They were about 1/8" think by 1" diameter.

So what I did was attach one magnet to the screen frame and then attached the other magnet to that one. I then swung the frame up to where I wanted it and marked the ceiling for the other magnet. I attached the second magnet to the ceiling and swung the screen up and it wouldn't hold. My screen weighs about 16lbs.

The only thing I can think of is not being perfectly square between the 2 magnets or the dead fulcrum weight was just too much for the size of magnets I got.

I haven't revisited this idea but when I get around to redoing my HT I will look at maybe trying MUCH stronger magnets. The kicker is they get much larger and I didn't want 2 large chrome objects just hanging around on the ceiling.

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post #26 of 43 Old 02-14-2011, 09:19 AM
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I appreciate you posting it. I think that this will work on my room, listed here -

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...559&highlight=

Any suggestions or something you may have done differently? When you said careful how you spline, could you be more descriptive on that process please?
Thanks in advance, really cool build!
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post #27 of 43 Old 02-15-2011, 05:52 PM
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My frame is the 80/20 aluminum tubing. It is mounted to the ceiling about 10 inches from the wall due to the fireplace. The attachments are 90 degree living hinges from 80/20. It latches with spring loaded latches from 80/20 that ensure that they don't slip out and the screen swing down unexpectedly. Pictures show it up, in down position, ceiling mounts and a poor screen shot. Screen is 98-inch RS-MAXMUDD retro painted on sintra. And yes, its a very white room. Changes are coming but not at the top of the list.
LL
LL
LL
LL

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post #28 of 43 Old 02-16-2011, 07:24 AM
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I'm not familiar with that, is it a company or type of aluminum?

Would you mind if possible taking an even closer shot of the 3rd picture, so I can see the mechanism you use for the "hinge"?

And thanks again to the thread starter and the others making comments and adding pictures, this is going to help me immensely!

****Edit - I googled 80/20, found what they are . Where did you order your parts, direct from the manufacturer or from a retailer?
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post #29 of 43 Old 02-16-2011, 08:14 AM
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80/20 Inc. is the company. The Quick Frame is what I used. Profile #9025. You can find their stuff in thier company store on "an online auction site" but to get the frame members cut to size and inside edges bevelled, you need to place your order through one of their suppliers found on their website. It ships to you.

http://www.8020.net/Quick-Frame-2.asp

The sintra fit a little loose in the flanges but once I added the black gasket material from 80/20 it was plenty snug.

To mount the screen I used the living hinges from 80/20 I found on their online auction store. I used a 90 degree hinge (#4030) but the 180 degree (#4163) would work just as well. I used the wider one to allow two screws to be anchored into the joist above.

Catalog Living hinges:

http://download.8020inc.net/PDF/Frac..._Section_5.pdf

Company store for #4030:

http://cgi.ebay.com/80-20-T-Slot-Alu...item563ed41560

Company store for #4163:

http://cgi.ebay.com/80-20-T-Slot-Alu...item563d78e9d5

The latches were also found at their company store. I chose them since the springs would ensure that the latches were inplace. Latches:

http://cgi.ebay.com/8020-Inc-Deadbol...item334d48a7f1

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post #30 of 43 Old 02-16-2011, 11:18 AM
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Adult Beverage - Thank you for the in depth answer with links, now I have something to do tonight

How heavy do you think your frame and Sintra combination is?
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