My Spandex Screen Adventure - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 25 Old 02-18-2010, 01:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Hey Everyone

Tomorrow or Friday I'll be going to STRETCH HOUSE and SPANDEX WORLD
in NYC being I live here. I'm sure I'll stop in other shops being this is the fabric district area and there's hundreds of these store fronts here.

I'll be getting my projector soon and still undecided on what screen to get
(Again) so some spandex will have to do for now.

I'm shooting for a 130" D screen and should be able to find some spandex
in 60" roll and see no problem with stretching it for the height needed.I'll be getting 4 way stretch .

I plan on putting black felt or velvet around the entire spandex screen and will attache it using snap on grommets like in this pic (see link below)
http://www.beaconfabric.com/vindex.html?cat303.htm

I'll attach a few hooks on the wall and just attach spandex screen by the grommets and when not in use I can just unhook it to take it down . No sewing or painting just snap snap and it's up and very easy until I decide which electric screen to buy.

If anyone is interested in swatches from STRETCH HOUSE and SPANDEX WORLD
let me know.

I'll be happy to ship them out .


List will go in the order of who posts first and the only catch is you have to pay shipping to send it to the next person on the list . Of course I'll pay for the first shipping...Doesn't cost much as it's only swatches of fabric.

Hey I might even have 2 lists depending upon how many swatches I get.

This is for the USA only.

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post #2 of 25 Old 02-18-2010, 01:17 PM - Thread Starter
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I have a Decibel Meter which I bought several years ago when setting up my 6.1set-up so I can check the sound with the spandex at a later date.

I don't know if the db meter will tell the whole story

I'm not interested in sound transparency due to my speakers being just fine where they're at. Main will be right under the screen with front L/R sides right where they belong..on the sides .I'll test the sound just for the fun of it anyway...

I can only test the sound as I don't have my projector yet.

Now to go and look for the db meter

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post #3 of 25 Old 02-18-2010, 01:18 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm also going to try and find some Retro-reflection fabric (White or and Silver)
to put behind the different shades of spandex...whites..grays..silver and black.

The spandex will give me the smooth surface on top and hopefully the Retro fabric will do it's job of reflecting the light back to it's source thru the spandex .

I'm hoping the Retro fabric will also help increase the gain .

There's different grades of Retro reflective fabric and have to do some reading up on that.Plus I have to find it where it's big enough. If anyone has it other than online it would be in NYC's Fabric district...maybe I'll get lucky.

Here's some nice black and silver retro reflective fabric but it's for striping clothes but looks nice.

It has a performance of : 100 cd/lux.




Aaaah so many combinations ..I'll just have to experiment and see what works.

I'll also look for some retro reflective PVC while I'm there

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post #4 of 25 Old 02-18-2010, 01:22 PM - Thread Starter
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There's 2 different types of spandex..2 way and 4 way.

The 4 way stretches on all 4 sides V and H which would work better and make it easier to pull evenly .


Some info on the retro reflective fabric..


The retro reflective fabric has tiny prisms just like the High Power gain screens.

"Millions of imbedded tiny glass balls or prisms multiply light back to the source.
The power of a car engine is measured by horsepower - the more the better. The same can be said for reflective material, which is measured by candle power (cd/lux/m²). There is a clear relationship between retroreflective performance of a surface and the distance at which it can be seen. According to 3M data, the retroreflective performance level (candle power) of white clothing is 0.1 - 0.3 , a license plate's performance level is at 50 and typical retroreflective silver fabric has a performance level of 500.

As the following chart depicts, with increasing retroreflective performance, sight distance also increases, clearly demonstrating that reflective materials allow for optimal visibility during low light level conditions. However, not all reflective materials are the same, as there are reflective materials available that range from 65-600 candle power. Remember, the brighter the better."

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post #5 of 25 Old 02-18-2010, 01:25 PM - Thread Starter
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Hey sean

I went this morning

First off the bad news....Both stores dont have swatches and the rolls of fabric aren't labeled. After I was done with the 2 spandex stores I walked into several other fabric stores (They're all over the place one right next to the other for several blocks) just to see if they had the fabric labeled..Most don't have fabric rolls that are labeled and no swatches are labeled. Well the ones I walked into didn't.


Back to the 2 spandex stores...If you want a swatch you have to ask and they will cut a piece off from the roll for you.


Stretchfabric.com cuts small swatches plus I didn't care for the service there.They seem annoyed everytime I asked for a swatch . I asked several questions regarding 2 way and 4 way stretch and the weight of the fabric but the guy didn't understand English too well (From India) so I headed around the corner to Spandex world with my 5 swatches.

As soon as I walked in I knew this place was much better even tho they are smaller..The place was crowded compared to Stretchworld.com who had only 1 other person other than me and he left quickly . I don't intend on going back.

I'm sure there's plenty of other places that sell spandex but I was short on time ...maybe next time I'll look around .

Spandexworld gives you a much bigger swatch that they also cut from the roll but happy to do it for you and don't make you feel like your're bothering them. Also from India but spoke English very well .

I got 10 swatches and some are 2 way and some are 4 way. It's easy to tell once you have it in your hand and start pulling on it which I had to figure out at the first store. Some are thicker and some thinner .

Some are very interesting .

I really could have got a ton more swatches but didn't want to bother the guy anymore even tho they were nice.

On the way out I asked about the reflective fabric and the guy said sure we have it but it's not a stretch fabric.He cut me a nice long swatch about 24" long and 3-4 " wide

It's gray of course but when you shine a light on the swatch it's turns silver like the reflective stripes you see on work clothing.

While going home I forgot to notice what size the rolls were . So I don't know if they're 36" 60" or 120" or whatever.Being this is NYC and this is the fabric district I'm sure they can order different sizes if the order was large enough.

The good thing is when I choose which one I want I can find it in the store plus I can also have them look it up to find out what's the product number for that fabric.

I wish I had my projector so I could put them on the wall and see which is the best. I have whites ..bright whites ..different grays and blacks.

I would love to try them with the Retro Reflective fabric in the back of the fabric or with the retro just by itself. So many different combinations Total of 15 swatches and one Retro Reflective fabric that's not spandex.

I'm excited and pissed at the same time being I can't test this fabric without a projector


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post #6 of 25 Old 02-18-2010, 02:08 PM - Thread Starter
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Been messing around with fabric and flashlight to see how much light escapes thru the back.

Well no surprise here because light does escape and more so with some frabric than other's.

But....When I put the retro Reflective fabric behind the spandex all is good .You can barely see the flashlight from the back but it's not light that's escaping. It's a very faint glow which looks nothing like the flashlight escaping with spandex alone.

If you put your hand behind the spandex alone you can clearly see the flashight on your hand not so with the retro reflective behind the spandex. Yes there's a very faint glow but it' doesn't shine on your hand like the spandex by itself.

I know this isn't a very good test but it's a sign that maybe using the retro reflective fabric behnd the spandex might be a better option.

Now If I can"t get the retro reflective in a large enough size for the height I need it would have to be patched together.

Will the patch line show in some scenes (brighter) and not other's ...I don't know . I do know another layer of gray or black beneath the white top layer will hide it for sure.

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post #7 of 25 Old 02-18-2010, 03:19 PM
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Pretty cool! I assume that even if the reflective fabric is patched together that it won't be noticeable being that it would be behind the spandex, however we won't know for sure until we try! I will most likely not use the reflective stuff, as I would like to have an AT screen and I'm sure that the areas where the speakers are placed in front of the reflective fabric will be noticeable in the image, since there will be three giant areas that are nowhere near as bright as the rest of the screen. When will you have your PJ to start testing??

-Sean
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post #8 of 25 Old 02-18-2010, 06:11 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm going to place my order this coming Wednesday..I'm hoping they have them in stock.



If you want some swatches just let me know..I'll mail them out to you.



Quote:
Originally Posted by 230-SEAN View Post

Pretty cool! I assume that even if the reflective fabric is patched together that it won't be noticeable being that it would be behind the spandex, however we won't know for sure until we try! I will most likely not use the reflective stuff, as I would like to have an AT screen and I'm sure that the areas where the speakers are placed in front of the reflective fabric will be noticeable in the image, since there will be three giant areas that are nowhere near as bright as the rest of the screen. When will you have your PJ to start testing??

-Sean


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post #9 of 25 Old 02-19-2010, 07:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Rain View Post

I'm going to place my order this coming Wednesday..I'm hoping they have them in stock.



If you want some swatches just let me know..I'll mail them out to you.

I just did a 4 way Spandex screen for a DJ type setup. However my screen was used on a rear projection setup. I did some testing and research prior on choosing the fabric. My finding is that a cotton-spandex mix is the best to use as a screen, the lycra-spandex mix, although it would be ok the PQ suffers.

While doing a test run ... the rear projection on this fabric works great, but you get probably a 10 to 20% higher light/picture on the front (where the projector is projecting).





Some thought... you could do a light frame where to attach the spandex to an this way you can experiment on whether you need a reflective backing or a black backing, or if anything on the back. I can tell you that just using it as front/rear screen has an acceptable PQ, if you are looking for something inexpensive but with better PQ there are other alternatives.

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post #10 of 25 Old 02-19-2010, 09:16 AM
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I look forward to your results. Why the new thread?
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post #11 of 25 Old 02-22-2010, 11:12 AM - Thread Starter
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Hey thanks for the additional information.


You have any pictures with the lights off and what did your friends think of the spandex stretched up like that ?


Quote:
Originally Posted by superleo View Post

I just did a 4 way Spandex screen for a DJ type setup. However my screen was used on a rear projection setup. I did some testing and research prior on choosing the fabric. My finding is that a cotton-spandex mix is the best to use as a screen, the lycra-spandex mix, although it would be ok the PQ suffers.

While doing a test run ... the rear projection on this fabric works great, but you get probably a 10 to 20% higher light/picture on the front (where the projector is projecting).





Some thought... you could do a light frame where to attach the spandex to an this way you can experiment on whether you need a reflective backing or a black backing, or if anything on the back. I can tell you that just using it as front/rear screen has an acceptable PQ, if you are looking for something inexpensive but with better PQ there are other alternatives.


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post #12 of 25 Old 02-22-2010, 11:15 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msmCutter View Post

I look forward to your results. Why the new thread?

I didn't want to clutter up the other thread any longer...now if I can only locate a panny ae4000...no one has them in stock at this time

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post #13 of 25 Old 02-23-2010, 12:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Rain View Post

Hey thanks for the additional information.


You have any pictures with the lights off and what did your friends think of the spandex stretched up like that ?

I'll look see if I have any pictures of the screen by it self, I think I took some pictures while testing the spandex.

I only had two adults saying anything, my wife, and another mom. My wife helped on making the screen, took me to the fabric store and calculated the material needed, and of course mentioned that it was a cool idea. The other mom mentioned that it looked very good.

Teenagers did not say anything, but my daughters liked it too.

There is a commercial company selling this type of stretchable DJ screens, and they aren't cheep.

The screen probably won't see alot of action, maybe two times a year, I have my projector on a dedicated room with a fixed BOC screen that serves its purpose very well.

I'll look for the pictures and post them.

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post #14 of 25 Old 02-27-2010, 10:42 AM
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This is the closest I found as far as a picture with no lights. Could not find a picture of the screen while testing, either is on a different SD card or got deleted. I hope this gives you a better idea.


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post #15 of 25 Old 03-01-2010, 03:44 PM - Thread Starter
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LOL That's pretty good considering you can still see thru the spandex lol

Thanks for posting it

PS:Still waiting on my projector another 2 weeks


Quote:
Originally Posted by superleo View Post

This is the closest I found as far as a picture with no lights. Could not find a picture of the screen while testing, either is on a different SD card or got deleted. I hope this gives you a better idea.



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post #16 of 25 Old 03-01-2010, 06:32 PM
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Quote:
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LOL That's pretty good considering you can still see thru the spandex lol

Thanks for posting it

PS:Still waiting on my projector another 2 weeks

Just as clarification, you can not see through the spandex... what you see in the screen is part of the projected image.

I'm taking a picture of a piece so it'll give you an idea of how translucent the fabric rally is.









Hope this gives you a better idea.

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post #17 of 25 Old 03-11-2010, 08:46 AM
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any update or a picture in a light controlled environment?
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post #18 of 25 Old 03-24-2010, 06:32 AM
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Not 100% on topic but at least related to rear projection screens.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...t=movie+palace

Just keep going toward page 3 and 4, although I'll bet you'll go through the whole thread, pretty amazing stuff.

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post #19 of 25 Old 03-24-2010, 08:51 AM
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That setup is amazing.
A) I can't believe he ripped up the first theater
B) I had no idea rear projection could look so good
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post #20 of 25 Old 03-24-2010, 10:55 AM
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Took the liberty to copy ccool96's post from that thread. This a comparison of rear projection vs. front projection with light on.



Being able to have ambient light in the room with out alot a image degradation is one of the advantages of rear projection. That is why the old CRT RP were so popular, besides having the best PQ even up to this date, in my opinion.

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post #21 of 25 Old 03-24-2010, 11:28 AM
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I don't see it in that particular picture, but in others there looks to be dark corners/bright center to the image. But some of thse pictures look fantastic. It has me considering rear projection. Now we just have to figure out how to make it AT.
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post #22 of 25 Old 03-25-2010, 07:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msmCutter View Post

I don't see it in that particular picture, but in others there looks to be dark corners/bright center to the image. But some of thse pictures look fantastic. It has me considering rear projection. Now we just have to figure out how to make it AT.

I don't think there is a rear projection screen that is AT (acoustically transparent). Just by concept you could not put the speakers right behind the screen since the projected image is coming from behind. You could place the speakers flush on a false wall using AT fabric or in-walls but not directly behind the screen.

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post #23 of 25 Old 03-29-2010, 10:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by superleo View Post

... Just by concept you could not put the speakers right behind the screen since the projected image is coming from behind. You could place the speakers flush on a false wall using AT fabric or in-walls but not directly behind the screen.

not necessarily... a ceiling mounted high offset projector would allow for the speakers behind the screen at a reasonable height... the projection would actually be above the speakers, but this would most likely require a very bright projector.

"A wide screen just makes a bad film twice as bad. "
-Samuel Goldwyn

I wonder what he'd think about 3D IMAX?
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post #24 of 25 Old 03-30-2010, 07:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dougri View Post

not necessarily... a ceiling mounted high offset projector would allow for the speakers behind the screen at a reasonable height... the projection would actually be above the speakers, but this would most likely require a very bright projector.

You are gonna want to put your speakers close to the screen and in doing that, you would block part of the image from the rear.


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post #25 of 25 Old 03-30-2010, 09:32 PM
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Quote:
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You are gonna want to put your speakers close to the screen and in doing that, you would block part of the image from the rear.


dbl

it would certainly be a tradeoff, but for some projectors you'd get roughly half the distance in unobstructed height (e.g. 1ft above bottom of screen for 2 ft back)... <1ft is best, but for larger scope screens, you might be able to get good spread of the speakers without too much worry about frame blockage... one potential issue would be vertical imaging... if the tweeters are too low, is it really that much better than a center channel below the screen???

"A wide screen just makes a bad film twice as bad. "
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I wonder what he'd think about 3D IMAX?
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