Need to narrow this down - Wilson Art vs Paint AE4000 - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 86 Old 10-20-2010, 01:26 PM - Thread Starter
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NOTE: The original title was asking for suggestions for a Panasonic AE4000 screen and specifically Wilson Art.
Since then, I went with an Epson 8350 and a DIY Sintra Screen with Silver Fire sprayed onto it. It is now my build thread for that screen instead of the original suggestions thread. Therefore I have modified the title for those following this thread.


Guys,
I honestly don't know how you guys do it. The information available is amazing but the choices are sometimes a bit overwhelming for newbies like myself.

The entire time I have been constructing my home theater, I thought to myself I will go the Wilson Art Designer White route. Now that I am getting towards the stage where I need to start I am confused as always.
My situation has also changed and I am tending to lean towards a Panasonic AE4000u rather than the JVC RS40 that I previously was waiting for. I don't know if its worth the cost at this point and there aren't too many negative associated with the Panny. Well at any rate I have a seperate thread for that.

Since a picture is worth a thousand words:
This is the screen area:



Here is the side view



The projector is most likely (75% sure) end up at the rear of the middle soffit. About 13 foot throw distance. There is the off chance it could end up on the rear wall which would be 23 feet or so. The lighting is controllable and two small basement windows will be blocked off.

That being said, I expect a lot of watching sports here with lights turned up a little bit but I do have every zone on dimmers.

I am looking to build a 120" diagonal 16:9 screen.

I was originally going to go with a Wilson Art DW screen bordered with velvet as shown in the beginners guide but upon further reading, I feel as though I should be looking for something more silver/gray. (Not to mention how awesome the screen would look even when not in use!)

I was reading another thread and Mississippi Man recommended an inexpensive sprayer. I love tools so I had to pick that up regardless of which route I go. So I am ready to go. Someone please guide me.

I know its asking a lot since there is so much flexibility in my setup at this point but I am sort of stuck as to which direction to go in. Unfortunately I already painted the wall dark blue because I was expecting to cover it with the laminate.
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post #2 of 86 Old 10-20-2010, 02:50 PM
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I have a WA-DW 2.37:1 screen that is 87 inches wide using an AE-4000. The room is totally light controlled. The lights are on a Grafix controller and I have several programed light levels stored in it.

For movies, we have the lights completely off (99% of the time). For TV watching and sports tend to be our major thing to watch using the TV in the theater, I have a very low light level using the scones. It provides just enough light to move easily around when the picture is black. There is no issue with seeing the TV image using this level of lighting.

The AE-4000 is setup to use the Color 1 mode for movies and the brighter normal mode for TV. I realize that the color accuracy is not quite as good in the normal mode but the extra brightness is worth the small loss in color accuracy.

Hope this helps a bit....
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post #3 of 86 Old 10-21-2010, 11:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks Frank.
Can I ask you where you projector is located (throw distance/height above screen)?

The thing that is really perplexing me is where to install the projector and what effects it will have on my image/screen choice. I thought I had it figured out but I keep confusing myself.
If you look at my pic, I have two choices. Front soffit (in front of the first row of seats at about 13' throw distance.
Second choice at about 23' throw distance behind the seats in the rear soffit.
If I put at 13', I would expect to need a different screen vs 23'. I'm guessing I need a gray screen at 13' and a white high gain screen at 23 feet.

I am prepared to place the PJ at either spot but I have gotten so many great opinions on both but I've gotten an equal amount of great opinions on both!
Location will clearly dictate between WA DW or even fashion gray. Or do I reprime and paint the wall. Or do I get another substrate and paint that!

Since you are also keeping the lights slightly turned up for sports, I could benefit from your experience... especially in terms of throw distance.
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post #4 of 86 Old 10-22-2010, 04:06 AM
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Hi! Can I interject a few things?

1. @ 13' Throw and 122" Diagonal (60" x 109") you'll want some additional gain, about in the 1.3 range. That would give you 19 fl...a very good number.

2. The Panny has excellent overall Blacks, but is lacking a wee bit in achieving the deeper Blacks a Epson 8500-9500-9700 or higher gets during the darkest content, and in any real degree of ambient light. Blacker Blacks to start out with mean less loss when any degree of Ambient light is introduced.

3. This also means no matter what you decide as far as throw (...and I STRONGLY suggest the Closer distance...) you need both Gain and at minimum a mid-toned Gray surface.

4. The sides of the Columns are going to be crowding the edges of the Screen at 120"+. They are white, which means they will reflect and redirect light back across the outside edges of the Screen. They will need to be Flocked with Black Velvet or something similarly as good*...or Painted a Ultra Deep Charcoal Gray (...not Flat Black) **Disney Color "Mouse Ears" **
* http://www.fpi-protostar.com/flock.htm

5. I suggest either RS-MaxxMudd Standard...or a Custom Mix I can specify if desired.

I hope any/all of the above clarifies your choices and / or direction.

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"
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post #5 of 86 Old 10-22-2010, 05:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bonjovi View Post

Thanks Frank.
Can I ask you where you projector is located (throw distance/height above screen)?

The thing that is really perplexing me is where to install the projector and what effects it will have on my image/screen choice. I thought I had it figured out but I keep confusing myself.
If you look at my pic, I have two choices. Front soffit (in front of the first row of seats at about 13' throw distance.
Second choice at about 23' throw distance behind the seats in the rear soffit.
If I put at 13', I would expect to need a different screen vs 23'. I'm guessing I need a gray screen at 13' and a white high gain screen at 23 feet.

I am prepared to place the PJ at either spot but I have gotten so many great opinions on both but I've gotten an equal amount of great opinions on both!
Location will clearly dictate between WA DW or even fashion gray. Or do I reprime and paint the wall. Or do I get another substrate and paint that!

Since you are also keeping the lights slightly turned up for sports, I could benefit from your experience... especially in terms of throw distance.

My throw distance is about twelve feet and the projector is mounted just below the top of the screen. (This is a REQUIREMENT for the AE-4000 to do zooming for CHI.)

The closer to the screen the better. Light output is reduced as you move the projector back. (Think what happens to the f-stop on a camera as you zoom in.)

Mississippiman is correct about white trim in the area of your screen. You really need to do something to prevent the light coming off the screen being reflected right back onto it. Even without any lighting on, this will be a bigger problem then minimal amount of light left on for sports.

By minimal, I mean just enough light to be able to see snacks and drink containers when the projector is off. Remember that when watching sports, you have a 200 watt light source being projected on that screen. That will provide a lot of light into the room. If people want to read, play cards, pool, forget it a projector and get an LCD or plasma screen.

In your case, I would say the two sconces at the back of the room at about 5 to 10% power would be about right.

If that was my basement, I would totally enclose almost the entire area where you have the blue carpet and turn that into a proper theater. I would then decorate the walls and columns inside with muted colors to reduce light reflection. That way most of your issues would resolve themselves.
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post #6 of 86 Old 10-22-2010, 08:45 AM
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Originally Posted by frank1940 View Post

My throw distance is about twelve feet and the projector is mounted just below the top of the screen. (This is a REQUIREMENT for the AE-4000 to do zooming for CHI.)

A good point...and one far too many overlook when considering the Panny. With the Soffit being build down below 8', and the Panny being a "largish PJ", you'll have to accommodate the situation by using a extremely low profile Cieling Mount like a Chief RPA -dedicated-

Quote:


The closer to the screen the better. Light output is reduced as you move the projector back. (Think what happens to the f-stop on a camera as you zoom in.)

So true...and something that should also be considered as being mandatory IF the Panny is to be considered. Here's why. At 21' the Panny will only deliver enough light to generate a paltry 7 foot lamberts w/1.0 gain Even with 1.3 gain you'd get just 9 fls, so there would go any hope of a decent watchable image with any degree of ambient light....a pretty crappy development.

So now I'll tell you what I'd do if I was faced with that room design. I'd hang the PK from the far forward "inside" of the rear recessed Ceiling area so the Lens was about 4" below the Soffit Ceiling directly ahead, or place the PJ so the Leading front of the Case was almost flush against the Soffit...almost. That will help keep the Screen's top edge as high as possible...something you must take into account.

Quote:


Mississippiman is correct about white trim in the area of your screen. You really need to do something to prevent the light coming off the screen being reflected right back onto it. Even without any lighting on, this will be a bigger problem then minimal amount of light left on for sports.

Thanks Frank. Yessir, this is an absolute must-do. Otherwise you'll have a sickly looking yellow cast across the outside edges of the Screen. I get a sick feeling myself even typing about it.

Quote:


By minimal, I mean just enough light to be able to see snacks and drink containers when the projector is off. Remember that when watching sports, you have a 200 watt light source being projected on that screen. That will provide a lot of light into the room. If people want to read, play cards, pool, forget it a projector and get an LCD or plasma screen.

Now let's not get hasty!!!! Better to forgo 2.35:1 and splash a huge 16:9 image onto the wall than settle for some pissy little 62" LED/LCD screen that will cost more than 2 Pannys together.

Quote:


In your case, I would say the two sconces at the back of the room at about 5 to 10% power would be about right.

Better still, since he's using 4" Eye Ball Spots to direct light away from the Screen, simply re=positioning a couple on each side to inward/rearward would allow considerable more light to be directed into the sitting area without any of it washing across the Screen.

Sconces are OK, but in reality, unless they have only a Up-Down illumination scheme, mostly they must be dimmed to the point they are not even much of a cosmetic attribute, let alone a source of viable illumination during a Movie. Looking at the ones I see in place easily proves my point. They'd have to be muted considerably. And the addition of a good, dark Colored Lens on them would be a lot better than that Bright White anyway. My opinion...of course.

Quote:


If that was my basement, I would totally enclose almost the entire area where you have the blue carpet and turn that into a proper theater. I would then decorate the walls and columns inside with muted colors to reduce light reflection. That way most of your issues would resolve themselves.

Too true, but I like the open effect the design shown provides. It also allows people to each side, in more open, lighted areas, to glance inward and enjoy the image that is ensconced into the Setback area.

All in all, if that Set back is effectively blacked out, the lighting is directed effectively away from the Screen, and the PJ placement optimized...well, all I can say is "Invite me to the Super Bowl Party!"

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"
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post #7 of 86 Old 10-22-2010, 08:52 AM
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BTW...the Blue rope Lighting is very nice! If it's incandescent, it should also be placed on a Dimmer Circuit.

To quote James T. Kirk;
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post #8 of 86 Old 10-22-2010, 08:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post

3. This also means no matter what you decide as far as throw (...and I STRONGLY suggest the Closer distance...) you need both Gain and at minimum a mid-toned Gray surface.

4. The sides of the Columns are going to be crowding the edges of the Screen at 120"+. They are white, which means they will reflect and redirect light back across the outside edges of the Screen. They will need to be Flocked with Black Velvet or something similarly as good*...or Painted a Ultra Deep Charcoal Gray (...not Flat Black) **Disney Color "Mouse Ears" **
* http://www.fpi-protostar.com/flock.htm

5. I suggest either RS-MaxxMudd Standard...or a Custom Mix I can specify if desired.

I hope any/all of the above clarifies your choices and / or direction.

Thanks for the info MM.
The "theater" was put together rather hastily in order to celebrate my daughter's 1st birthday. The colors are not exactly what I wanted but was able to do the darker carpet and darker walls in the theater portion.

A couple of questions:
1.) What would a high gain mid tone gray be? Would that be silver in color in regular light? I am ok with whatever the experts (you guys) suggest.

2.) When you say the columns need to be painted or covered in material are you saying JUST the sides of the columns up front by the screen area? There is about a 3" between the column and the indented screen area. Look at this pic and you can see it slightly. There is a 3" indent, then 3" across and then the side of the column:



It looks like you are saying that indented area needs to be changed and the side of the column? Or the whole column? And are you also talking about the columns in the middle of the room? This is going to be a tough sell to the wife as it was her idea to go with that color. I knew this would become an issue.

The other option I was thinking about was curtains that hide the screen when not in use but hide the entire column area when in use. Of course we will still cover the indented sides.

Also the columns appear white in the pictures but they are actually a light gray. Same with the ceiling. I was half expecting to have to repaint the ceiling in the area as well but figured I could do it in steps.

3. I purchased that sprayer that you posted on another thread. I don't know how much it will help me but I thought I'd let you know. Do I spray the entire thing? No rolling at all?

4. What am I painting? The wall? The laminate? Or something else. Any advice would be greatly appreciated! The wall is new but not professionally done. I'm ok at this stuff but not an expert.

5. As far as a custom paint, I'm assuming you are suggesting that because you see something that I can benefit from over the regular formulas. That being said, I'm pretty good at most handy jobs but I am a painfully slow painter and I've never used a spray gun before but how hard could it be?

It looks like installing the shorter throw is winning out... but one potential problem.... as I respond to frank below.


Quote:
Originally Posted by frank1940 View Post

My throw distance is about twelve feet and the projector is mounted just below the top of the screen. (This is a REQUIREMENT for the AE-4000 to do zooming for CHI.)

I would have to move my seating up if I were to put it below the screen level. I think the second row of seating would find the projector a little intrusive and perhaps even obstructing. Not too big of a deal but I would end up with a large amount of space behind the second row. First row of seats will be at the columns and the second on a riser a few feet behind.


Quote:


The closer to the screen the better. Light output is reduced as you move the projector back. (Think what happens to the f-stop on a camera as you zoom in.)

Mississippiman is correct about white trim in the area of your screen. You really need to do something to prevent the light coming off the screen being reflected right back onto it. Even without any lighting on, this will be a bigger problem then minimal amount of light left on for sports.

By minimal, I mean just enough light to be able to see snacks and drink containers when the projector is off. Remember that when watching sports, you have a 200 watt light source being projected on that screen. That will provide a lot of light into the room. If people want to read, play cards, pool, forget it a projector and get an LCD or plasma screen.

In your case, I would say the two sconces at the back of the room at about 5 to 10% power would be about right.

That won't be a problem. I can even use the small recessed lights and turn the sconces off it I really want low ambient light. My bigger concern will be painting the soffit black and doing something about the columns. I was hoping to be able to get away with velvet curtains somehow.


Quote:


If that was my basement, I would totally enclose almost the entire area where you have the blue carpet and turn that into a proper theater. I would then decorate the walls and columns inside with muted colors to reduce light reflection. That way most of your issues would resolve themselves.

This unfortunately is not an option. The theater is just one portion of the room. The other use of the room is as a recording studio. The purpose of having chairs in the middle was so that folks could listen in on music and sit down or do karaoke, etc. However, i was planning on running two very long velvet curtains down the sides to block off the theater when in use from the rest of the room. This was going to help with the light but unfortunately won't do anything for the less than ideal sound situation. I am also hoping to find an inexpensive motorized solution for this but no luck just yet.


And just a few other thoughts, this is a work in progress and I didn't even plan on getting the theater stuff started for a while. I wish I was able to have made everything exactly how I wanted it but I had to compromise and make the best use of the space. Thanks for both of your suggestions.
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post #9 of 86 Old 10-22-2010, 08:56 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post

BTW...the Blue rope Lighting is very nice! If it's incandescent, it should also be placed on a Dimmer Circuit.

Yeah its incandescent and is on a dimmer. I just threw it up there because I couldn't wait to see how it looked. I have to bind it down as it is just laying up there all screwed up. Not very neat.

The blue area of the ceiling is not really finished well because I am going to put a fiber optic star ceiling in both of those areas. (Just got the stuff for the frame yesterday from HD).

I figured I'd install the star ceiling next as I prepare for the screen. I am going to purchase the projector last. I still have to do the rack, the riser and then all of my recording equipment. LOTS of work!
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post #10 of 86 Old 10-22-2010, 09:02 AM
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Originally Posted by bonjovi View Post


I figured I'd install the star ceiling next as I prepare for the screen. I am going to purchase the projector last. I still have to do the rack, the riser and then all of my recording equipment. LOTS of work!

Whose Star Kit are you using? Is it a Pre-Fab or what? I only know a a couple Mfg/suppliers whose offerings are truley worthy...that is to say exceptional effects at affordable pricing.

I'll be in Maryland soon doing a 1800 sq.Ft. Theater w/14' 2:35'er. While there I'll also stop in Wayne, NJ for a couple of days. I'd love to see your project and have a Brew if your interested.

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post #11 of 86 Old 10-22-2010, 09:14 AM - Thread Starter
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So now I'll tell you what I'd do if I was faced with that room design. I'd hang the PK from the far forward "inside" of the rear recessed Ceiling area so the Lens was about 4" below the Soffit Ceiling directly ahead, or place the PJ so the Leading front of the Case was almost flush against the Soffit...almost. That will help keep the Screen's top edge as high as possible...something you must take into account.

You lost me here, sir.
At the "midpoint" of the theater area there is the large soffit. The wires that are dangling are right about 12.5-13 feet if I remember correctly. So in relation to that where should I put the PJ? In front or behind. I don't think I can put it in front of that because the throw won't allow me to. Ok wait. I think I read it wrong. You are saying to put it at about 15 feet and drop it down from that second recessed ceiling soffit?

Quote:


Thanks Frank. Yessir, this is an absolute must-do. Otherwise you'll have a sickly looking yellow cast across the outside edges of the Screen. I get a sick feeling myself even typing about it.

Now let's not get hasty!!!! Better to forgo 2.35:1 and splash a huge 16:9 image onto the wall than settle for some pissy little 62" LED/LCD screen that will cost more than 2 Pannys together.

At this point I'm going to have to stick with a 16:9. I made the indentation/columns too close together. I wouldn't get much of a 2.35 image on there. I'm limited by the 110 width (really 105 if I want a small border).


Quote:


Better still, since he's using 4" Eye Ball Spots to direct light away from the Screen, simply re=positioning a couple on each side to inward/rearward would allow considerable more light to be directed into the sitting area without any of it washing across the Screen.

Yep, that's what I was thinking. They are 3" though and everything is on zwave dimmers.

Quote:


Too true, but I like the open effect the design shown provides. It also allows people to each side, in more open, lighted areas, to glance inward and enjoy the image that is ensconced into the Setback area.

All in all, if that Set back is effectively blacked out, the lighting is directed effectively away from the Screen, and the PJ placement optimized...well, all I can say is "Invite me to the Super Bowl Party!"

Like I said, if you are going to spend all that money on seating it would be nice to use it for more than one purpose. When I bring my music gear down there and a ping pong table, I hope that we use the basement for equal amounts of everything.
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post #12 of 86 Old 10-22-2010, 09:24 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post

Whose Star Kit are you using? Is it a Pre-Fab or what? I only know a a couple Mfg/suppliers whose offerings are truley worthy...that is to say exceptional effects at affordable pricing.

I'll be in Maryland soon doing a 1800 sq.Ft. Theater w/14' 2:35'er. While there I'll also stop in Wayne, NJ for a couple of days. I'd love to see your project and have a Brew if your interested.

Sure thing. Wayne is about 20 mins away. I'll send you a PM. Though my travel schedule is pretty hectic coming up in November so givce me some time frame. Also I'll have to switch out the brew for a pizza and soda or something since I'm not a drinker! (haha rethinking that super bowl part comment now, huh?)

The star kit is kind of peice meal thing. I used to be a fiber optics engineer and got my hand on some old spools. I will be using those. I bought the cool sky illuminators and it will be as simple as that. I'm actually going to work on my own illuminators if I ever get a minute to work on that sort of stuff.

Looking forward to your input.
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post #13 of 86 Old 10-22-2010, 09:43 AM
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Originally Posted by bonjovi View Post

Thanks for the info MM.
The "theater" was put together rather hastily in order to celebrate my daughter's 1st birthday. The colors are not exactly what I wanted but was able to do the darker carpet and darker walls in the theater portion.

Not a bad design for a "Quickie". I'd be glad if I had even some of that waiting for me with some of the things I get hit/faced with!

Quote:


A couple of questions:
1.) What would a high gain mid tone gray be? Would that be silver in color in regular light? I am ok with whatever the experts (you guys) suggest.

Yep...a light, Silvery Gray....very attractive...so much so you'll have to be careful to watch out for people wanting to check it out. Believe it or not, even with a big 'ol PJ hanging down, you WILL have people ask you where the 'ell you got a Plasma TV that size. It's a given...lemmie tell ya!

Quote:


2.) When you say the columns need to be painted or covered in material are you saying JUST the sides of the columns up front by the screen area? There is about a 3" between the column and the indented screen area. Look at this pic and you can see it slightly. There is a 3" indent, then 3" across and then the side of the column:

No worries. Only surfaces that are directly at right angles to the Screen, and up very close need to be considered.

Quote:


It looks like you are saying that indented area needs to be changed and the side of the column? Or the whole column? And are you also talking about the columns in the middle of the room? This is going to be a tough sell to the wife as it was her idea to go with that color. I knew this would become an issue.

Hey! It's all looks spendid! Unless you want to have a room absolutely dedicated to "Theater" viewing, color schemes have to come into play. Yeah, a dark shade of Gray, or a Blue about 4x lighter than the Ceiling would have been better, but getting the WAF on your side only helps out for some things YOU will insist on later, I'm sure.

Quote:


The other option I was thinking about was curtains that hide the screen when not in use but hide the entire column area when in use. Of course we will still cover the indented sides.

If you go for a CIH set-up, Short Throw Curtains that would only have to come inward to Mask the unused Screen area to each side when viewing 16:9 is all I'd suggest. When retracted to each side, they simply become a cosmetic attribute.

Quote:


Also the columns appear white in the pictures but they are actually a light gray. Same with the ceiling. I was half expecting to have to repaint the ceiling in the area as well but figured I could do it in steps.

Dangle this Carrot before your Bunny. Go with a 3x darker shade of that Gray on the Soffit Ceilings only, but also use that color to highlight all the Room's Trim (...leaving the inside Panels on the Column the lighter Shade...) and also the Wainscot Paneling and Baseboards. THAT would look very elitist and extremely decor minded. I'm betting the Wifey will actually appreciate the Two Toned approach. Another Option....do the Soffit & all the Wood Trim within the Theater area in a 3x - 4x lighter shade of the Star Ceiling Blue.

Quote:


3. I purchased that sprayer that you posted on another thread. I don't know how much it will help me but I thought I'd let you know. Do I spray the entire thing? No rolling at all?

If that wall is pristine and smooth...absolutely spray it all. But Rolling on a good Primer Base ain't something you need to shy away from if your rolling skills ain't all that bad.

Quote:


4. What am I painting? The wall? The laminate? Or something else. Any advice would be greatly appreciated! The wall is new but not professionally done. I'm ok at this stuff but not an expert.

Well...using a Smooth substrate effectively takes any "Wall Finish" concerns out of the equation PLUS...You would have to do NO Priming!. I'd use Sintra 1st. Laminates are more fragile by a great measure, and difficult to work with, and if you get Sintra, both sides are viable candidates.

The Sintra would stick right to the Wall using Liquid Nails too, no need for Contact Cement. Or it could be screwed to the wall and the Trim overlaid on top the excess area that receives the Screws. The latter will necessitate that you reduce the Size of the Screen a bit though, whereas Gluing will allow you to butt the Trim directly against the sides of the material I try to do that whenever I can.

Quote:


5. As far as a custom paint, I'm assuming you are suggesting that because you see something that I can benefit from over the regular formulas. That being said, I'm pretty good at most handy jobs but I am a painfully slow painter and I've never used a spray gun before but how hard could it be?

Not hard at all...and that's why I advocate it so strongly. As a application method, it excels at allowing even a rank Noob to garner a finish that simply is superior to any rolled application.

Mostly, my suggestion would be centered around your getting an appreciable amount of Gain as well as giving the Panny a nudge into "Mo Bedder" Blacks across the entire Gray Scale. As long as we/you keep the Throw Distance close enough in that Lumen output is optimally high, you can go with a moderate shade of Gray that also has 1.2-1.3 Gain and have everything you want/need. Great Colors. Brilliant looking Whites. Interstellar Blacks. And more than adequate Ambient light view-ability.


Quote:


The theater is just one portion of the room. The other use of the room is as a recording studio. The purpose of having chairs in the middle was so that folks could listen in on music and sit down or do karaoke, etc. However, i was planning on running two very long velvet curtains down the sides to block off the theater when in use from the rest of the room. This was going to help with the light but unfortunately won't do anything for the less than ideal sound situation. I am also hoping to find an inexpensive motorized solution for this but no luck just yet.

Now all "Curtain" business makes great good sense and changes up a lot of need for concern...except "budget-wise" of course. As for Sound, if you choose wisely...and that should be well within your domain and experience to do so, I don't see many issues that can't be accommodated for.


Quote:


And just a few other thoughts, this is a work in progress and I didn't even plan on getting the theater stuff started for a while. I wish I was able to have made everything exactly how I wanted it but I had to compromise and make the best use of the space. Thanks for both of your suggestions.

Sawright...and as I said, you've done just fine so far...no need to make any talk of "I wish I could'a....". In the end, owing to what you already have shown and are planning, you'll have a exceptionally nice Room. Anyone who points out any deficiencies after your done???....don't ask 'em back.

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"
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post #14 of 86 Old 10-22-2010, 10:13 AM - Thread Starter
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OK. So I guess my first step is to acquire some sintra. I would need a rather large sheet since I'm looking to maximize my screen (if we use all 110" wide no border), I need a peice at least 110" by 62/63". Looking on google it seems that it comes in mostly 4X8 with some places having 5X10. Has anyone been able to find bigger sheets (in north jersey area or at least able to shipped here)?
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post #15 of 86 Old 10-22-2010, 10:17 AM - Thread Starter
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Also what color? Bright white?

Just called a local place for a quote. They did have it in 80" X 120". Waiting for a call back. I guess I'd have to pay for delivery since I can't think of way to transport something like that.
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post #16 of 86 Old 10-22-2010, 04:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Update. Purchased a 120" by 80" white Sintra for 100 bucks shipped. Even though its not too far from me I had no way to pick it up so that's why I'm having it delivered. I didn't really shop around but I figured its not worth trying to save 10 bucks here or there. It arrives on Monday... but I just thought of another problem... how the heck is this thing going to get down the stairs and where am I going to actually do the painting. Since I'm spraying makes sense to do that in the garage. I just want to make I can get a 110" by 63" screen down the stairs without damaging it. I'll have to run some simulations!
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post #17 of 86 Old 10-22-2010, 06:30 PM
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Originally Posted by bonjovi View Post

Update. Purchased a 120" by 80" white Sintra for 100 bucks shipped. Even though its not too far from me I had no way to pick it up so that's why I'm having it delivered. I didn't really shop around but I figured its not worth trying to save 10 bucks here or there. It arrives on Monday... but I just thought of another problem... how the heck is this thing going to get down the stairs and where am I going to actually do the painting. Since I'm spraying makes sense to do that in the garage. I just want to make I can get a 110" by 63" screen down the stairs without damaging it. I'll have to run some simulations!


You move fast! I hope you can stop the delivery 1st thing because you absolutely want them to make the 63" cut along the length of the Board, as well as the 110"er. It's well worth the effort...and even the expense if extra to do so because they can and will cut it down and be certain it is squared diagonally, corner to opposite corner.

Call them as soon as they open...don't fail in this. You can be sure that 63" will go down a staircase a lot easier than 80", and unless you possess the skill of Noah and the steady hand of a Brain Surgeon, you'll risk not getting the cuts made at home nearly as perfect as the project deserves.

BTW....where did you find Sintra in 80" high sheets? I shop the entire US at most every supplier there is and that is a size I've never heard of. I wanna get in on that source!

Also, be advised that the 1/4" Sintra will bend considerably, either along it's length (cupping) or around a corner (bending in the middle) so negotiating most stairwells is quite do-able. The 1/2" variety is a lot more stiff, but it will bend in the middle too.

I would however advise you to hang it in place and spray it in place. Moving a surface that is painted is not easy...requires the Kid Glove treatment (literally) and it complicates the hanging of the material as well. If you've done it before, and discovered all the best (...and wrong...) things to do, obviously it can be done. But in any given situation I will always opt to hang it first and then spray it in place.

But I'll say this again as well: I ALWAYS have them cut it before I pick it up or have it delivered. ALWAYS!

To quote James T. Kirk;
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post #18 of 86 Old 10-22-2010, 08:10 PM - Thread Starter
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I usually don't work that fast but I just thought i'd get my order in before the weekend. Man, I don't even have a projector yet. I don't know why I ordered it so quickly. I guess I was just getting too excited.

Here is the supplier.
http://www.ddpmsc.com/
They were listed on the Sintra website and the closest to me. At first there was some confusion as to whether the piece was actually from Sintra and not a similar material. After speaking to the manager he assured me it was in fact Sintra. I did not feel completely comfortable since I also had not seen it available in that large of size but I figured I'd get my order in before the weekend. On the sintra website I did see a size 2mX10 listed. I'm assuming I can talk to them before it comes out. I will call first thing tomorrow. Hopefully someone is in the office.

The one thing that is troubling is that no where on their website do they say they cut to size. I hope they do! And I hope they are open on Saturdays! Anyway, I just left a message for them.


So, I guess I need to prep my brand new basement with brand new carpeting for some spraying! Looks like I will be getting a lot plastic and painters tape. I do NOT want to ruin my new carpet and walls!

Also, MM, what am I doing in terms of my paint recipe. Can you point me towards a formula somewhere that you would recommend.

Also, I think I will be plenty happy with the panny as my first projector but I got a some people trying to point me back towards the new JVC's. I figure I can use the panny and upgrade later if needed and probably still get decent resale off of the panny. No one who actually owns the panny has said anything bad about it to me... however same is true for the JVC's. I figure the JVC is probably better but for a newbie, is it 2K vs 5K better? Maybe for a more experienced user.
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post #19 of 86 Old 10-23-2010, 01:17 AM
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Originally Posted by bonjovi View Post



So, I guess I need to prep my brand new basement with brand new carpeting for some spraying! Looks like I will be getting a lot plastic and painters tape. I do NOT want to ruin my new carpet and walls!

Home depot sells .7 mil Plastic in 9' x 12' sheets for $1.99 It doesn't take muany to completely cover the Landscape.

Quote:


Also, MM, what am I doing in terms of my paint recipe. Can you point me towards a formula somewhere that you would recommend.

RS-MaxxMudd Retro (darkest of the rs-maxxmudd mixes, note the amount of SILVER in the mix)

16 oz Delta Silver Metallic #02603
4 oz Delta Pearl Metallic #02601
4 oz Folk Art Champagne Metallic Gold #675
5 oz Behr UPW 1850
10 oz Minwax PolyAcrylic Satin Finish
10 oz distilled/tap water**
----------------------------------
when compared visually (side by side) to 1.3gain commercial screen... is conservatively 1.4+ gain
this is a spray only mix.


RS-MaxxMudd (for moderate ambient light)
16 oz. Delta Pearl Metallic #02601
12 oz. Delta Silver Metallic #02603
4 oz. Folk Art Champagne Metallic Gold #675
7 oz. UPW flat 1850
16 oz. Minwax Polycrylic - Satin finish
12 oz. distilled/tap water**

Quote:


Also, I think I will be plenty happy with the panny as my first projector but I got a some people trying to point me back towards the new JVC's. I figure I can use the panny and upgrade later if needed and probably still get decent resale off of the panny. No one who actually owns the panny has said anything bad about it to me... however same is true for the JVC's. I figure the JVC is probably better but for a newbie, is it 2K vs 5K better? Maybe for a more experienced user.

My STRONG recommendation would be to opt out of the Panny since CHI isn't on the agenda. Consider instead the Epson 8350 @ $1195.00

It has 50K:1 Contrast, 2000 lumens, and Epson will warranty the Bulb for the entire duration of the 2 year PJ warranty. It's highly acclaimed....I've already installed 8 myself...it's much lower price allows you to spend for the Chief RPA 168 dedicated Mount and Peerless ACC570 Round Ceiling Plate http://www.peerlessmounts.com/dyn/Pr...ct.aspx/sp/485
(...approx $165.00 total...) as well as justify any eventual upgrade into JVC territory, once the price of their higher end models sink down into reasonable territory. BTW, the JVC 250 is only $3k

At present I cannot say that spending 3.5K more will make you any more impressed, and that is coming from a JVC Fan. But I'm also pragmatic, practical, and I've seen 'em all in action so i'll relate to you this;

The 8350 will do the absolute best job for your situation/installation, and do it for much less than you had counted on. Not only that, you can mount that particular PJ a lot further back (18') and still get the 18 Fls off the Screen. At 13'? 27 fls!!!!

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"
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post #20 of 86 Old 10-25-2010, 12:02 PM - Thread Starter
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Ok. I was able to stop delivery. Actually postpone delivery for one day. They are delivering me a 110" by 65" tomorrow for the same price. 100 bucks plus tax. They will keep the excess so that works out for me.

I will look at the 8350 but my only concern is that it is 60hz vs the panasonic 120 hz. Not sure if I'll notice a difference but I am used to plasmas. I also watch mostly sports. So far it doesn't look like anyone is complaining about the 8350.

Out of the two paint solutions which one should I try? Should I do the spray only one (first one)?
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post #21 of 86 Old 10-25-2010, 01:00 PM
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Can't help but to listen in on this DIY screen. Thought I was the few not the many to make my own screen and not informed of a Screen thread at the time. I went the GOO route some two years ago and are considering building my second screen and or upgrading my PJ. Or both! So thank you MM for your detail posts.
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post #22 of 86 Old 10-25-2010, 02:46 PM
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Originally Posted by bonjovi View Post

Ok. I was able to stop delivery. Actually postpone delivery for one day. They are delivering me a 110" by 65" tomorrow for the same price. 100 bucks plus tax. They will keep the excess so that works out for me.

Works for me too. I'm glad your logistics will be a bit more manageable.

Quote:


I will look at the 8350 but my only concern is that it is 60hz vs the panasonic 120 hz. Not sure if I'll notice a difference but I am used to plasmas. I also watch mostly sports. So far it doesn't look like anyone is complaining about the 8350.

I have one Customer who was exceedingly anal about motion artifacts and had the Panny 3000. He still saw them, and was NOT happy.

He just had me install the 8350 for a 122" diagonal Silver Fire Screen, and immediately set down to watch the European Cafe Racing Championship. Itty Bitty Motorcycles zooming by a poop load faster across the screen than even Nascar photography , and he was overwhelmed that the image remained crisp and clear across the expanse of real estate he was watching. Your results may vary...but probably not enough to matter.

I then took that 'ol Gal of a Panny and shoved it up in place to replace a Z4 for another Good 'Ol Boy Friend (ie: Redneck), and now I have two success stories...and a Belly full of Beer to boot! Can't stop there! Took the Z4 and installed it for a Low End solution for a guy who never had a PJ before. There was a new. spare Bulb left over so after I installed it, "Zounds", another Happy Camper (w/84" SF Screen on Thrifty White) This Guy cooks Ribs on the Side on Weekends for Car Dealerships. Burp. Need I say more?

Quote:


Out of the two paint solutions which one should I try? Should I do the spray only one (first one)?

Spray away....but try the lighter version first. If you find you want more ambient Light potential, a couple quick over coats and there you are!

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"
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post #23 of 86 Old 10-25-2010, 03:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Spray away....but try the lighter version first. If you find you want more ambient Light potential, a couple quick over coats and there you are!

OK. At the risk of sounding like an idiot, just to confirm, the lighter one is the RS-Maxmudd. The Retro is darker one.


You've just about got me sold on the epson. You would think there would be more used PJ's available since it seems like AVSForums Members change em out every month or so. It' would be nice to get something used to get my feet wet so I can upgrade strategically.

Well I'm still waiting for my sprayer to arrive in the mail. So until then I am going to continue the other work including all of the recording studio wiring and star ceiling. If I play my cards right, I wasn't expecting to have my home theater up until spring 2011. I never thought I'd get addicted (obsessed) with this stuff. I went from having a cinderblock wall basement to a party room to the beginnings of a theater in a month!
I was going to wait also due to finances but if I get a nice inexpensive screen solution and a 1200 (maybe less used) projector, I can have this thing up and running in a month.

But what do I sit on????? That's gonna cost me a dime or two.
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post #24 of 86 Old 10-25-2010, 03:37 PM
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OK. At the risk of sounding like an idiot, just to confirm, the lighter one is the RS-Maxmudd. The Retro is darker one.

Dat's right.....


Quote:


You've just about got me sold on the epson. You would think there would be more used PJ's available since it seems like AVSForums Members change em out every month or so. It' would be nice to get something used to get my feet wet so I can upgrade strategically.

oh my. dude can get one of the finest PJs it's ever been my pleasure to install...complete with unlimited Bulb replacement for the life of the PJs warranty...and for under $1200.00, and he's fudgin' over being able to justify an upgrade later?

Let's review.....
Quote:
Originally Posted by bonjovi View Post

OK. At the risk of sounding like an idiot.......

Sez it all, it does.

Quote:


Well I'm still waiting for my sprayer to arrive in the mail. So until then I am going to continue the other work including all of the recording studio wiring and star ceiling. If I play my cards right, I wasn't expecting to have my home theater up until spring 2011. I never thought I'd get addicted (obsessed) with this stuff. I went from having a cinderblock wall basement to a party room to the beginnings of a theater in a month!
I was going to wait also due to finances but if I get a nice inexpensive screen solution and a 1200 (maybe less used) projector, I can have this thing up and running in a month.

Getting a bit more coherent now......

Quote:


ut what do I sit on????? That's gonna cost me a dime or two.

Bean Bags Brother!

I just had a Customer custom order HT Lazyboys in the narrow profile style for under 800.00 ea. After they arrive it's off to the Upholster to have Cloth Panels inset to dress 'em up to look like $2K+ chairs.

Like so much else you have already done, using some creative thinking and then moving when something decent and good presents itself is always gonna reap rewards.

Just Do It.

(....you can quote me on that.....)

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"
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post #25 of 86 Old 10-25-2010, 04:03 PM - Thread Starter
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oh my. dude can get one of the finest PJs it's ever been my pleasure to install...complete with unlimited Bulb replacement for the life of the PJs warranty...and for under $1200.00, and he's fudgin' over being able to justify an upgrade later?

Sorry... that's just a side effect from the music side of me. Always selling a guitar to get a nicer guitar or trying to buy something used, play it, sell it for the same or a profit. I guess old habits are hard to shake.

And hold up a minute... I didn't quite understand that warranty. Sounds like a free bulb.

Quote:


Bean Bags Brother!

I just had a Customer custom order HT Lazyboys in the narrow profile style for under 800.00 ea. After they arrive it's off to the Upholster to have Cloth Panels inset to dress 'em up to look like $2K+ chairs.

Like so much else you have already done, using some creative thinking and then moving when something decent and good presents itself is always gonna reap rewards.

Just Do It.

(....you can quote me on that.....)

You're right. I'm just gonna keep going. I'm having fun. No need to overthink it. I'll do whatever I can with what I have and can afford.

Sounds like everything is coming together.
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post #26 of 86 Old 10-26-2010, 01:11 PM - Thread Starter
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As of this morning I now have in my possession a piece of 65X110 white Sintra. The gentleman helped me bring it down the stairs and everything. It arrived covered with cardboard on both sides. I highly recommend these guys (Diversified) if you are in the NJ area. http://www.ddpmsc.com/ They went out of their way to help me out. I didn't quite shop this around but I can't imagine getting it much cheaper than $100 shipped.


1.) Now I am waiting for my sprayer to arrive.
2.) Gotta go to Home Depot and get the grocery list of paints.
3.) Find a way to mix it. ( I know I saw it in the FAQ) And start this thing up.

Meanwhile, looking for a place to pick up my projector. Looks like MM has convinced me to go for the 8350. I read a couple of articles as well and it seems to be a superb projector.
Also does anyone know of any place to see PJ's first hand in North Jersey. None of the shops by me ever seem to have them on display.

MM,
When you coming to NJ?
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post #27 of 86 Old 10-26-2010, 05:53 PM
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Originally Posted by bonjovi View Post

As of this morning I now have in my possession a piece of 65X110 white Sintra. The gentleman helped me bring it down the stairs and everything. It arrived covered with cardboard on both sides. I highly recommend these guys (Diversified) if you are in the NJ area. http://www.ddpmsc.com/ They went out of their way to help me out. I didn't quite shop this around but I can't imagine getting it much cheaper than $100 shipped.

I agree...a Killer deal all that.

Quote:


1.) Now I am waiting for my sprayer to arrive.
2.) Gotta go to Home Depot and get the grocery list of paints.
3.) Find a way to mix it. ( I know I saw it in the FAQ) And start this thing up.

You purchase ay HD/Lowes/On-Line this thingee:
http://www.squirrelmixer.com/Browse-...-Polypro-Mixer

It's the absolute BomB. Use it at a slow speed, as it can create a whirlpool so intense it can suck volumes of air into the Paint being mix and leave you with a frothy soup.

Quote:


Meanwhile, looking for a place to pick up my projector. Looks like MM has convinced me to go for the 8350. I read a couple of articles as well and it seems to be a superb projector.

Try Projector People (Florida based_ as they are closer), and ask for Kirk Katarie. Tell him MMan sent'cha and he'll know exactly what you need, mount included.

BTW, now that the Epson 9350 is out, for the $300.00 more you get their Triple Layer, Special Coated Lens that optimizes the light output when the active Iris is engaged, and improves what is already a stupendous performer.

That's the same Lens that is on the Top End Epsons costing $1500.00+ more, so if you can bite, you'll chew on something even more tasty.

Quote:


Also does anyone know of any place to see PJ's first hand in North Jersey. None of the shops by me ever seem to have them on display.

MM,
When you coming to NJ?

As soon as they approve my "M" Med card application.

I hope to be passing through there Mid November on the way to Maryland. Got a 14' S-I-L-V-E-R Screen going up w/Epson 9350 doing the honors in a 18,000 watt Home Theater I designed.

As for Demos, very few display the low budget types...hopefully that might change soon. I know of someone who might invite you into a Home in the Wayne, NJ area, but he's a Retailer so it's not really kosher to beg for his largess and then go to a Distributor to save the difference. But who knows...we are 25 yr Buds and he might just let'cha have a 9350 for chump change.

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"
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post #28 of 86 Old 10-27-2010, 06:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bonjovi View Post

As of this morning I now have in my possession a piece of 65X110 white Sintra. The gentleman helped me bring it down the stairs and everything. It arrived covered with cardboard on both sides. I highly recommend these guys (Diversified) if you are in the NJ area. http://www.ddpmsc.com/ They went out of their way to help me out. I didn't quite shop this around but I can't imagine getting it much cheaper than $100 shipped.


1.) Now I am waiting for my sprayer to arrive.
2.) Gotta go to Home Depot and get the grocery list of paints.
3.) Find a way to mix it. ( I know I saw it in the FAQ) And start this thing up.

Meanwhile, looking for a place to pick up my projector. Looks like MM has convinced me to go for the 8350. I read a couple of articles as well and it seems to be a superb projector.
Also does anyone know of any place to see PJ's first hand in North Jersey. None of the shops by me ever seem to have them on display.

MM,
When you coming to NJ?

Not too many places here in Northern NJ to see front projectors. I spent little time checking out an expensive dated set up and was not overly impressed. That being said trust your gut. I still went FP anyway. My gut told me thousands of AVS members can't all be wrong. Home Theater Mag was a good ref. too When people look at my theater I here the same thing Wow Wow and Wow!
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post #29 of 86 Old 10-27-2010, 04:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post

I agree...a Killer deal all that.

You purchase ay HD/Lowes/On-Line this thingee:
http://www.squirrelmixer.com/Browse-...-Polypro-Mixer

Will get on that. Sprayer arrived today. I like getting packages in the mail

Quote:


Try Projector People (Florida based_ as they are closer), and ask for Kirk Katarie. Tell him MMan sent'cha and he'll know exactly what you need, mount included.

BTW, now that the Epson 9350 is out, for the $300.00 more you get their Triple Layer, Special Coated Lens that optimizes the light output when the active Iris is engaged, and improves what is already a stupendous performer.

That's the same Lens that is on the Top End Epsons costing $1500.00+ more, so if you can bite, you'll chew on something even more tasty.

Well, I don't think we are allowed to talk pricing on the forums but I can get myself a decent price on the 8350. Can't seem to find the 9350 anywhere. And I can get the Panny AE4000u pretty cheap which is why I started there in the first place. Will give a call to your contact in a little bit.
When you start looking at the 2K range you have to throw the 8700UB in the mix as well... and then of course the panny comes back in play....
And then the confusion ensues once again.

Quote:


I hope to be passing through there Mid November on the way to Maryland. Got a 14' S-I-L-V-E-R Screen going up w/Epson 9350 doing the honors in a 18,000 watt Home Theater I designed.

Makes sure you take some pics of that badboy. Sounds awesome.

Quote:


As for Demos, very few display the low budget types...hopefully that might change soon. I know of someone who might invite you into a Home in the Wayne, NJ area, but he's a Retailer so it's not really kosher to beg for his largess and then go to a Distributor to save the difference. But who knows...we are 25 yr Buds and he might just let'cha have a 9350 for chump change.

Nah. I don't want to impose on anyone. I was just hoping there were some places that had this stuff up and running. If he has it at a decent price I can definitely purchase from him.


Quote:
Originally Posted by rstahl View Post

Not too many places here in Northern NJ to see front projectors. I spent little time checking out an expensive dated set up and was not overly impressed. That being said trust your gut. I still went FP anyway. My gut told me thousands of AVS members can't all be wrong. Home Theater Mag was a good ref. too When people look at my theater I here the same thing Wow Wow and Wow!

I took the day and travelled around a bit. I went to about 5 shops including bbuy and electronics expo. I was able to see one demo today of a Mitsubishi something or other at Bestbuy. No one else had anything working. They had them on display but could not get them to work or perhaps didn't want to.

Rstahl, I think you're right. Go with your gut. I even liked the Mitsubishi which was shown in less than ideal conditions and it wasn't even on my radar which makes me think that the ones I'm looking at should be great. If you ever want to check out what I'm working on and see what kind of mess I'm making you are welcome to pop by. I'm only 15-20 mins away. Although there is nothing to see just yet. Just whats in those pics.
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post #30 of 86 Old 10-28-2010, 10:13 AM
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I may very well pop In on you. Even know time is so hard to find the most minor detail can make all the difference.

I picked up a squirrel mixer last night after work at the Home Depo with the new pressure relief valve I been meaning to change on my Furnace all summer. R
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