Originally Posted by prof55
You just described a plain white screen with unity or nominal gain. If that's what you want - and you feel it will work best in your environment - then by all means use one of those screens. Or, to save a buck, you may want to just carefully paint a properly prepared wall with any good quality latex white paint ...
I don't think anyone here has ever claimed to make a better white than white. The issue is real-world home theater environments, where improvements in image satisfaction can be made many ways, both commercial and DIY. In this real world, specs become less meaningful...
As you said, many don't like the Silverstar. Yet its specs are the same as other screens that they may find satisfying. Some things can be measured, others can't. Gain, viewing cone, and color neutrality are measurable, and many manufacturers provide these specs. But viewers often comment on things like "grain", "sparklies", and "perceived contrast"... Where are the specs on these qualities? There are none, because they are subjective, and can't be measured.
And even if a definition and measurement system were developed for such qualities, they would remain subjective. The simple fact is that individuals vary widely in their tastes. This is why one praises what the other rejects.
When you state "I want a screen that reflects back as closely as possible what is being projected out of my projector.
", you may very well have placed yourself in the minority. Absolute accuracy in brightness, chroma, and contrast have seldom been provided (or required!) for the average viewer. You can tell someone all day long that his choice is bad based on your specifications, but when he sees what he likes, he knows it, and specs be damned.
It is in this realm - not the laboratory - that DIY offers real-world solutions and satisfaction.
I can easily measure sparklies,and contrast, I am not sure what you mean by grain. Perceived contrast over real contrast. I think I can make a case for real ansi contrast and that it will be a superior measure than someone's perception. This would allow people that do not even know what contrast is to say they perceive something that does not exist. Is real measurable contrast going to look like or perceived to be less? Only by someone who doesn't know any better.
You make a statement that I would be in the minority by wanting an accurate image. I disagree. The entire industry is based upon attaining this. When I first started out many years ago I made screen coatings. I worked with a lab and came up with a product. The problem back then was that you couldn't change and correct projectors with the cms systems on the projector so I was going to make a coating to correct the projector.
I happened to run into Ken from Goo when I was going to show the product and it was going to be commercial. The vagaries in this was that it was very expensive to make. You say just go to store and buy some paint. I knew that store bought paint did not have the quality of pigment or the amount of pigment I needed for success. The original goo product has exponentially more pigment in it and is a good quality than a house paint you are going to find at home Depot. Despite what I seen here earlier regarding some false statement that quality pigments were not available in the past. This is total nonsense. In fact as the pigment cost go up the amount of talc in hour store bought paints go up. The wild card is how do you make it where a common joe shmo can apply it properly. A factory can nc control their spraying process and can control humidity, drying and curing process, and can charge the process for the directionality they want to achieve. In any event I thought before ordering drums of the mix I would take a look at what guys would do with the Goo. It was and remains a great product. If you look at the amount of pigment you get. vs a store bought paint its still a bargain.
So to cut to the chase I discovered that my solution was too expensive for the common guy. When I looked at the results of what some guys were doing as far as the application of coats the were for the most part butchering the results. I offered my gravity feed gun and compressor for free.
It was my experience at the time that people that were interested in making a screen were over 90 percent looking for something cheap vs a venture of fidelity. I also worked with an individual for a while to see if it was possible to to convert the energy in light outside our human spectrum.
I can't reproduce a resin screen, resin does not react to light as pigment. Pigmented screens are more granular.
I will still spray a screen if I need something specific.
What you seem to be saying tho is that you do not really want people in the forum that know what they are doing great and can measure results. It's better for people to communicate their perceptions then have a reality based communication.
See I always think it's preferred to start at fidelity and make adjustments from that point. I would never assume people want to see pink polar bears and snow. In fact I go go as far as saying the person who would make the assumption would not know what they were doing. The other possibility is that the color they see.. NOT perceive is vastly off. The screens presented by Mississippi man were so far off color neutral we had pink polar bears on one screen and blue on the other. Would someone who knew what they were doing been able to easily predict this by looking at the pigment in the paint used?Absolutely!! It's science but it sure isn't rocket science.
We all have a unique color signature. Isn't that a good argument for testing and providing results and most importantly sharing the information.
If someone is making pink screen and telling people they are color neutral is it helping those people. If they state a screen is brighter then xyz and other attributes that are false is it helping others? Preying on people's ignorance may be a apt description.
People have a budget to spend. If they were building a screen with fidelity they would spend it on other products or services that would elevate their room. Follow the logic... You are in the business and you get your business through references. You want your rooms to look and sound their best because afterall they are your showrooms. If a customer wanted make their own screen and it was going to look great and they had money for other aspects of the room is that going to be a good or bad for my business?
First you allowed the creation of the planet of the apes then you built a bubble around it.
You see I candidly told you what I wanted iin a screen. Your response was quite so far off attaining my goal that makes it difficult to impossible to communicate. You didn't ask why wouldn't the solution you presented achieve my goal. Further you don't understand why I would want to have a screen that is capable of producing an image that my projector is capable of. You suggest that the majority of people want an alternative to what the projector is capable of and want something entirely different without being able to say what that is except that they know it when they see it.
Sounds like the blind following the blind to me and all speaking a different languages.
If someone wants a bad screen that's their choice but do allow for the possibility that it may also be chosen out of ignorance, lack of information, and having nothing to compare.
You are saying the majority of people want to see an image reflecting off the screen that is differently than producers, directors,and cinematographer would want to view it.
I can tell you this, no genius would assume people want to see pink polar bears, lose detail on their image, and have a host of aberrations on their reflected images.
You don't have a diy forum as much as you have a people getting pushed out of the forum by someone who hopes to sell a screen that may actually believe that they can produce a better screen. Even though they can't say why, or how it's better.
To stay in hour happy ward I wouldn't go advertising people in the business to do a real review. Look what happened with the behr solution by Evan. Chances are people might be handing out jackets that tie in the back for something so horrid lasting so long as a solution on anything that has science associated with it.