"DIY screen paint" article at Projectorcentral.com - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 110 Old 04-04-2012, 08:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirnak View Post

Name: Glidden Professional Diamond 450, Titanium White. (It's the base, no tint added.)
Product code: 7100-0110N, Velvet Matte.

Kirnak
I am in Canada and just called my local Glidden store and the salesman did not recgonize that number. Is there a cross reference to Canadian part numbers that you know of? He did mention a matte version but that was it. Maybe I will call Glidden Canada and ask them.

Update - Called Glidden Canada and the paints in Canada are different from the US paints, bummer! Nearest color is 12110 but not likely the same as above.
I recently moved to an island so to get to the US I have to take a $130 ferry trip. I was thinking about doing this a couple of days ago to get some $20 Bosie Cascades panels at Home Depot in the US but scrapped that idea thinking it was crazy. Now I find I have to do it anyway to get the proper paint. Geez, I still think it's crazy, but with that one trip I could get both the paint and the panel. Hmm, choices!!!
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post #92 of 110 Old 04-04-2012, 08:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prof55 View Post

I don't think anyone here has ever claimed to make a better white than white.






Hi Prof55 good to see you are still around and doing well.

I try and come back and take a look around about twice a year and like any good soap opera some of the actors change and some stay the same but the story never changes.

A shout out to PB and MM as well good to see you both.

The controversy here will never end and science and or subjective preference will never prevail.

For the newer members that want to dive into the archives it's almost all in there to be read and viewed. But the truest post ever written at least in terms of the writer of the post believing his words to be truth was by a member named BigLyle. He must have tried 200 different screen paints over his run on the soap opera and had a revelation moment, told us about it and shut off his computer and turned on his projector and has been watching movies happily ever after.

I kind of took the same path off the show but like to come back as a reoccurring part from time to time.

Good luck guys and go back at it.


Bud

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post #93 of 110 Old 04-04-2012, 09:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tyee View Post

Kirnak
I am in Canada and just called my local Glidden store and the salesman did not recgonize that number. Is there a cross reference to Canadian part numbers that you know of? He did mention a matte version but that was it. Maybe I will call Glidden Canada and ask them.

I have no idea on the Canada Glidden, but finding the right info from Glidden USA was a challenge. Originally, I was interested in the Dulux "Lumitec" paint that is very popular as a screen paint in Europe. Glidden and Dulux are the same company, so I set about finding out if the Dulux paint that the Europeans love was available here. After many, many phone calls I finally ended up with the chief color engineer for Glidden in the US. He told me that the Diamond 450 base with no tint added was the same paint. It's also part of the "Lumitec" line here in the USA. There is some type of reflective material added to the Diamond 450 that is not in other paints. What it is he would not tell me, of course. On European forums they claim a gain of 1.2 to 1.3 for the paint, though I could not find the tests. However, looking at the comparison to the Carrada screen panel, I find it easy to believe those claims.

I've not yet painted a screen with this paint. Because of the comparisons with the painted panels I made, I believe I will really like the Glidden screen, but I can't swear to that yet. Bear that in mind before you go through too much to get the Glidden! I know the Glidden stores in the US are happy to ship the paint, perhaps you should check in to that? Also, check that the store you're going too has the paint! I had to call around a bunch of Glidden stores to find some.
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post #94 of 110 Old 04-05-2012, 09:18 PM
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Mandarax sent me a couple of PMs, I think it might be helpful to share the information publicly. There's some good info here verifying how i1 Pros should be used, I apologize for the drama included.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mandarax View Post

If you read the measurement geometry spec on the device you will see it is 0 and 45 degrees.

Apparantly, Mandarax found an interesting spec on the X-rite website and interperted it to mean you needed to take readings at 0 degrees and 45 degrees with the i1 Pro. It didn't make sense to me, but hey, I'm always willing to learn. So I went ahead and called X-rite and talked to an engineer. Much better to go to the source than quibble. I mean, everyone can always learn something new. The X-rite engineer verified the 0/45 thing was part of the spec and had nothing to do with how measurements were taken. So I sent back to Mandarax:
Quote:


I think you're referring to this: Measurement geometry: 45°/0° ring illumination optics, DIN 5033
That has nothing to do with the angle you take your measurements at. There is no requirement to position the sensor at 0 and 45 degrees, nor is there a method to take a measurement at 45 degrees without extensive and expensive custom fabrication of a mount. BTW, I called X-Rite, they confirmed the spec listed is a specification of the sensor, and has nothing to do with how measurements are taken. The Engineer confirmed that the technique I use for calibration is correct.

Thanks for your interest though!

Well, here's where the drama started. I'd not include it, but then I'd be censoring the conversation. Mandarax sent back:

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Originally Posted by mandarax View Post

If you were using xrite software to measure a if a screen was neutral then I don't need to know any more.

If you knew what you were doing you wouldnt be calling anyone.

But thanks for calling and confirming that.

OK, just so everyone understands the data I posted, and as I already posted, I used HCFR and BabelColor neither of which is X-rite software. I have no idea why Mandarax persists in this belief I'm using X-rite software, but it ain't so. (If anyone else is wondering.) Also, when you think you're too smart too ask questions, you've just proved how ignorant you are. I'm an expert pilot, been there done that in the USAF and the airlines, and yet I'm always willing to learn something new. When you stop learning, you start vegetating. Anyways, I'm not proud of my reply, but I don't suffer, well you know. I replied:
Quote:


Wow, get it through your head, I was not using X-Rite software! Can you not read?

And yeah, I know what I'm doing. i was curious what that spec meant. Better to ask than to be a dumb a&% and assume it was something else. Some people might be so stupid as to assume it meant you needed to take two measurements at different angles.

Don't PM me again dude. I don't like you.

(edited to remove profanity.)

Anyway, the point I'm trying to make here is that my testing methodology was correct as far as it went.

Now what does that mean? Is the science the end all? No, I don't think so. I think it can give you some objective criteria to measure. If I was a professional photographer it would be. If your monitor doesn't match your printer you can't know how photos will turn out. But that isn't what Home theater is about. It's about enjoying the movies you watch. The subjective impression is just as important as the science. That's why I caution folks that I haven't actually done a screen with the Glidden yet. I think it will be great, but I don't know yet. I have yet to have a subjective impression.

For some, the science is all important, and there's nothing wrong with that. Some people might prefer a slightly different picture. There's nothing wrong with that either. The whole idea is to enjoy what you see. I measure the hell out of my system's frequency response too. And then I screw it up and boost the LFE channel. I like to feel the house shake when something goes "boom". All the effort I go too to get a perfectly flat frequency response, and then I throw it out the window. Why? Because I like it. Nothing else matters. Same with a screen. You gotta like it. Nothing else matters.

OK, I think that was important information. I'm not a fan of drama, and I won't be feeding it here. I won't be responding to Mandarax's posts or PMs, other than to say I don't respond to Mandarax. I tried to smooth out the drama by politely and positively responding to his "play safe, spray safe" thread, but I guess that didn't help. Oh well, I tried.
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post #95 of 110 Old 04-06-2012, 04:02 AM
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Great post Kirnak. Thanks for effort.

Jason
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post #96 of 110 Old 04-06-2012, 07:16 AM
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Kirnak,

Let's have a shootout. I should be painting next week with the Glidden.

Now, need to safely remove those trim panels from the komatex board and repaint.
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post #97 of 110 Old 04-06-2012, 07:16 AM
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Kirnak,

That would be the Dulux Ultimate White.

It's been the staple of SF Mixes in the UK & EU for the last 3 years, so it's not really new "news". However, the revelation that Dulux and Glidden are essentially the same company is. Good research there.

I noted the degree of gain of the Dulux back then, and that gain was paramount in the design of the Mix. The introduction of a +Gain White base, as well as added reflective elements, both served to compensate for the degree of Gray attenuation the ultra dark Gray Colorant we used.

It's always amazed me how quick some are to discount that SF cannot have the degree of gain it does. I really believe it's all coming from those who "supposition" that it cannot, not from those with any real knowledge or experience.

In the end all, it's people such as yourself, those with no agenda other than informing others of the results they encounter, that really do the best job of confirming or affirming specs and data.

Your to be commended...not discounted.

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"
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post #98 of 110 Old 04-10-2012, 11:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirnak View Post

I have no idea on the Canada Glidden, but finding the right info from Glidden USA was a challenge. Originally, I was interested in the Dulux "Lumitec" paint that is very popular as a screen paint in Europe. Glidden and Dulux are the same company, so I set about finding out if the Dulux paint that the Europeans love was available here. After many, many phone calls I finally ended up with the chief color engineer for Glidden in the US. He told me that the Diamond 450 base with no tint added was the same paint. It's also part of the "Lumitec" line here in the USA. There is some type of reflective material added to the Diamond 450 that is not in other paints. What it is he would not tell me, of course. On European forums they claim a gain of 1.2 to 1.3 for the paint, though I could not find the tests. However, looking at the comparison to the Carrada screen panel, I find it easy to believe those claims.

I've not yet painted a screen with this paint. Because of the comparisons with the painted panels I made, I believe I will really like the Glidden screen, but I can't swear to that yet. Bear that in mind before you go through too much to get the Glidden! I know the Glidden stores in the US are happy to ship the paint, perhaps you should check in to that? Also, check that the store you're going too has the paint! I had to call around a bunch of Glidden stores to find some.

Any news about the Glidden screen? Have you painted it yet?
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post #99 of 110 Old 04-11-2012, 12:02 PM
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The diamond 450 is only avail in gal, no quartz.
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post #100 of 110 Old 04-11-2012, 02:13 PM
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Originally Posted by exipnos View Post

Any news about the Glidden screen? Have you painted it yet?

No, life keeps getting in the way. Hopefully late April, but it could easily end up being next Fall/Winter. Once it gets windy in the Columbia River Gorge I have no time left for anything but Kiteboarding.
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post #101 of 110 Old 04-11-2012, 03:53 PM
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Unacceptable....., Millions are hanging on in rapt anticipation. The Minions await a positive sign.

Get'ter dun.

Get'ter measured.

Get'ter settled.

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"
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post #102 of 110 Old 05-11-2012, 10:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirnak View Post

No, life keeps getting in the way. Hopefully late April, but it could easily end up being next Fall/Winter. Once it gets windy in the Columbia River Gorge I have no time left for anything but Kiteboarding.

Dude, it has been exactly a month. You threw these numbers up expecting people to believe them, but why didn't you post a screen shot from the software you used? Why would someone buy these paints and test the numbers, but don't post software screen shots showing the data, pics of the purchased paints side by side, and etc.? Alot of the comments here are filled with red flags. It's pass late April.....Hell in about 19 days it will be June. I recently was going to try Black Widow or Cream & Sugar Ultra because the mixes here were without numbers of what's really going on. The science does matter. Just like the science of setting up your room, choosing the right projector for your room, and etc.


The numbers DON'T lie. Peoples taste can, but when using standards you can tell what is what. I like the fact that Black Widow and Cream & Sugar actually have NUMBERS from their paint mixes instead of just talking loud and saying nothing. Their is no way in hell I would spend my money on any mix that doesn't give data. With that said, I went with the SW Pro Classic and mixed it with Liquitex Basics Silver(2363t) Tube paint. My mix is as follows....

16 oz. of SW ProClassic Satin
16 oz of Liqutex Basic Silver Acrlyic Tube paint
6 oz. of Distilled water(This is needed to thin out the thick Silver paint)
NOTE: Mix the distilled water with the liqitex paint first then add it to your SW paint.

I used the SW as my "primer" then the mix above as my top coat. The results are amazing for my theater room that has Eclipse curtains through out and Olympic Chewy Caramel walls. When the "primer" coat of SW Pro Classic was dry I shot a picture on it and the paint looked very good. I was amazed how well it look and I can only imagine how well it could have looked after it cured some, but after I added the top coat with the Liqitex paint the contrast and blacks noticably shot up. Not that they were bad with the Pro Classic. The screen just look more like a high quality plasma/LCD. My wife was floored by the results. The screen has one draw back though....with alot of light on the screen looses it's performace, but with subtle lighting you won't have an issue. This weekend I am going to paint another one of these in my bedroom to go with my LG CF3D. I spent a great deal on the PJ and need to save some money of the screen. 8o) I highly suggest people to try this mix.
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post #103 of 110 Old 05-23-2012, 07:51 AM
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Well, I ordered it from Seattle, WA and they did ship it for me to get it closer. It's now delivered to my US address but I can't pick it up for another 9 days. Looking forward to trying it out. Will also get the Boise Cascades whiteboard when I go to get this paint so I will have both. I will paint the other side of the whiteboard with the Glidden and can just flip between the two!
LL
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post #104 of 110 Old 07-20-2012, 07:48 AM
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Any news here on that glidden? How is it. painting next week and curious. Thanks

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post #105 of 110 Old 07-31-2012, 12:31 PM
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Hi Guys??? Any word on the Glidden actually on the wall? i did not get to paint mine. I am getting stumped on acquiring the paint. I have tried 4 stores. One of which said it would be $200-300 and I needed to buy all 4 gallons...his minimum order. The others said that this paint was discontinued and not available at all??? Any truth to this? Also heard that the new Glidden Duo is taking its place. I am about to give up and go with Behr UPW 1850.

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post #106 of 110 Old 07-31-2012, 12:39 PM
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Toocrunk..I am painting 54.5" x 130" so about 50ft2, is that ~1 quart of mixed paint going to be enough to cover it with a roller? Can I double your mix if need be?

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post #107 of 110 Old 08-02-2012, 07:52 AM
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Actually when I got both the paint and the Boise Cascades whiteboard I set up the whiteboard right away and was so happy with it I haven't painted yet. The Boise has no glare at all which is what I was experiencing with the Sintra board. I'm talking unpainted for both here. Sooner or later I will get to paint though.

I guess you could call Jake in Seattle at Glidden Professional Paint and order it like I did. His number is 206-682-8070. Ask for 7100-0110N Velvet Matte with no tint. He had no problem shipping in the US.
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post #108 of 110 Old 08-02-2012, 08:24 AM
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Thanks tyee. I will let you know what I end up with.

I have hired a local painter to spray the screen wall for me, but I have a drop ceiling I inherited from the prev owner of my home. Since the ceiling was in new condition, and given the WAF, I decided to bite the bullet and just leave it. I ran all wiring up inside sheetrock and down the back left wall to my rack. The ceiling is white. I ma going to post some pics when I get home. Hope this is not tooo bad of a hijack;) Anyone have advice or experience for applying a different color for the drop ceiling near the screen wall? Thanks guys.

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post #109 of 110 Old 08-02-2012, 11:02 AM
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AUrator,

When the painter does the "Screen Wall" (btw, what type sprayer will he use?), you should take the drop Ceiling Panels down and have him shoot an appropriate, non-reflective color onto them (Medium / Dark Gray Flat or "Disney Mouse Ears" Black -Satin- )

As for the paint you need to do that Screen wall, there are other viable, well proven alternatives. The Glidden 450 is certainly one type base that falls into that category. Glidden is also the maker of Dulux paints sold in the UK/AU/Europe, and their Lumitech Light & Space "Ultimate White" is the exact same thing as the 450. I used it as a base for a 200" 3D "Metal-based" Screen while in the UK 2 years ago, and it was a tremendous improvement. For me, seeing that Glidden now carries it's clone (450) Stateside represents even more potential for some of the advanced DIY applications we already have going.


Toocrunk,

First time posters who obviously come over from another Forum simply to post with comments like yours, starting right off the bat with criticism of Members and such, are exactly that....obvious.

In any case, it would be interesting to see how you made out trying to use the CF3D with a non-"Polarization Retentive" painted screen. My experience with that PJ would dictate that any "Satin" paint would hot spot to the point of Glare. (I used "Matte White" over in the UK) Your lack of posting any results at either location seems also to be....obvious.

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"
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post #110 of 110 Old 08-02-2012, 02:52 PM
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Humble apologies MM. I should have been more descriptive of my area. I am working with a basement area that is ~40ft long and 16ft wide. my HT area is half of the 40ft dimension. and the pool table takes the other half. I will get so pics so you can see tonight. I was hoping you would respond for me. I am an avid lurker/reader here and am aware of the 450 correlation with dulux probably from your posts:) more to come....I may need to begin a thread of my space. hmmmmmmm....would be weird to hear from all the "stars" I have been keeping up with for the last few months:)

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