"DIY screen paint" article at Projectorcentral.com - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 110 Old 01-27-2011, 07:45 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
Jim McC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Oconomowoc, WI.
Posts: 5,899
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 32
Did you guys see the article there? It's interesting. They came up with a matte white from Sherwin Williams that was very close to the Stewart Studiotec(I think), which they say is the best screen out there.
Jim McC is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 110 Old 01-27-2011, 09:11 PM
AVS Club Gold
 
MississippiMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Byhalia, Mississippi. Waaaay down in the Bottoms
Posts: 14,992
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 180 Post(s)
Liked: 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim McC View Post
Did you guys see the article there? It's interesting. They came up with a matte white from Sherwin Williams that was very close to the Stewart Studiotec(I think), which they say is the best screen out there.
Very close? What about "As good as or better?" We all here on this Forum past that milestone in respect to the ST130 a ways back...say 2004.

For about $50.00. Rolled.

A very myopic article indeed, and totally dismissive of the potential for DIY Screens to match let alone best Mfg offerings. And like many DIY'ers have done, the Author decides to limit himself to options that hinder, not help performance.

Obviously he cannot have ever spent any time on this Forum if he selects Silver Screen as representative of a "performance oriented" Gray solution.

To me...the article lacks depth, and any understanding of what is possible,

...but what do I know from nothing....

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
MississippiMan is offline  
post #3 of 110 Old 01-27-2011, 11:34 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
Jim McC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Oconomowoc, WI.
Posts: 5,899
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 32
In no way did they recommend Silver Screen. They basically said it was awful.
Jim McC is online now  
post #4 of 110 Old 01-28-2011, 08:27 AM
AVS Club Gold
 
MississippiMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Byhalia, Mississippi. Waaaay down in the Bottoms
Posts: 14,992
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 180 Post(s)
Liked: 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim McC View Post

In no way did they recommend Silver Screen. They basically said it was awful.

Read my comment again at least as carefully as you read that article.

My statement didn't say they "recommended" it, I inferred they did DIY Screen making an injustice by using it as an example of a "popular" DIY Gray Screen and held it up for examination based on that premise. While Silver Screen has been around for quite a spell, and a great many have used it as a ultra cheap starter Screen, even it's stanchest supporter freely admits it's only exactly that...an ultra cheap starter screen...not something you try to herald to the masses as representative of "State of the Art DIY Screen Making". Many Authors will bolster their own writings and ideas by comparison to something "less than acceptable", and the case in point here is the Author didn't stand much to gain by showing how far DIY Screen making has progressed, or how far out-of-date his "revelations" about DIY Paint schemes are.

Would the PC readership have been surprised to learn that the vaunted ST130's performance has been equaled/bested by at least 3-4 DIY applications...since 2004? What would have been surprising is if the Author would have effectively dismissed his effort as being "old news" by virtue of having related such. That would kinda make all he wrote about fairly moot.

My "performance oriented" comment was based upon the expectation that a person doing the review wouldn't choose something to examine that is so "low Brow" in comparison to so many other better & affordable options unless it served his purpose and intent by doing so. A little research and more effective evaluation would most certainly have resulted in a more informative article. But that determination would have to be based upon actually researching in depth what AVS DIY Screens offers. It's almost a given that did not happen.

Even so, it's no stretch to imagine that the Author had to be aware of this Forum. By choosing to ignore such, or to really make the effort to produce a comprehensive article, in my way of looking at it, the article was nothing more than a self gratifying "Hey! Look what we discovered!" kinda thing. Well, we all know that some people have been claiming "discovery" of "new" DIY Screen ideas a lot recently...and none of them are "new". Most are simply re-badged "Clones" of previous applications presented here on this Forum.

The saddest thing in this instance is how wasted an opportunity the article was as far as informing people about the FULL merits of DIY Screen making.

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
MississippiMan is offline  
post #5 of 110 Old 01-29-2011, 11:40 AM
Senior Member
 
Bsims2719's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 461
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 26 Post(s)
Liked: 11
With all due respect to the people who have put countless man hours into this;

This DIY forum really lacks a scientific prospective. Meaning there is to much bias. You can't give impressions or criticisms if you are the one invested into the process or the DIY'er.

Here is what I wish someone would do. Take the most popular DIY solutions (Mudd, Silverfire, etc.) and the most inexpensive solutions (plain white paint, cheap pull down screen, the ProjectorCentral paint review) and compare them.

Here's the catch. The people comparing them must no nothing about the DIY process or even projectors. They are just common people looking at an image. It takes at least 25 people to be statistically significant. All variables except the screen must be the same. Same projector, same viewing material, etc.
Bsims2719 is offline  
post #6 of 110 Old 01-29-2011, 04:47 PM
AVS Club Gold
 
MississippiMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Byhalia, Mississippi. Waaaay down in the Bottoms
Posts: 14,992
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 180 Post(s)
Liked: 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bsims2719 View Post


Here's the catch. The people comparing them must no nothing about the DIY process or even projectors. They are just common people looking at an image. It takes at least 25 people to be statistically significant. All variables except the screen must be the same. Same projector, same viewing material, etc.

Well then...about 4 years ago I posted a Thread called "Roasting the Bird over a "Silver Fire", where during a Home Show attended by over 35,000 people, where they all got to see several Mfg representations, from 2 Stewart ST130s and a Fire Hawk (...the Bird...), Dalite Da Matt Fixed 1.0's, and a a couple more all come up against a DIY MMud SE Light Fusion.

Yeah, all the other PJs were different...but they also were all $10K plus offerings whereas I was showing a -$5k DLP.

Over the course of two weeks I collected over 300 unbiased, written comments from clueless Show goers who had viewed them all, scanned the comments and posted them, and let the AVS DIY Screen readership determine what was being said. Yes...there were visuals as well.

The DIY application garnered over a 95% preferred response, without there being anything mentioned about it being "DIY". Quite revealing. But also quite controversial so the thread was shuttered because of conflict generating commentary.

In any case, what your suggesting is exactly what one might hope a through reviewer might consider doing. That did not happen in this case, and essentially almost everything good and special in DIY was ignored.

Except painting a wall with White Paint.

Besides that "lost" thread, there have been many comparisons done, with concerted efforts toward producing even handed and u8nbiased results. But that all stays "On Forum", it doesn't / hasn't ever gotten widespread press.
Perhaps because this is a very close DIY Community, and that is where the emphasis lies...on helping others...not promoting DIY Screen making beyond AVS.

I accept that no reviewer or writer of an article can cover everything, but in this instance it was apparent the Author had some degree of awareness, and chose to dumb down the equation too far....dismissing inexpensive spray paint options (...then went on to lament about "texture" ) and Gray screen solutions that, while still being far below $100.00, are leaps and bounds above good 'ol Silver Screen.

So tell me...where is the justice...or justification in that? Nope, it was not much more than has been related so far...a "Gee, look'ie here" thing with some window dressing. Nothing of any real essence.

I really wish it would have been more...because it seems such a wasted opportunity to spread awareness of the potential in DIY Screen Making overall.

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
MississippiMan is offline  
post #7 of 110 Old 01-29-2011, 11:47 PM
Senior Member
 
Bsims2719's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 461
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 26 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post

Very close? What about "As good as or better?" We all here on this Forum past that milestone in respect to the ST130 a ways back...say 2004.

For about $50.00. Rolled.


Ok, so what you are saying is that you have a $50 rolled on application DIY solution that surpasses a $2500 screen material? Pretty impressive if true.

Could you please provide the ingredients or the link to the thread. I would like to compare it to the Sherwin Williams and just plain ol UPW.
Bsims2719 is offline  
post #8 of 110 Old 01-30-2011, 08:44 AM
AVS Club Gold
 
MississippiMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Byhalia, Mississippi. Waaaay down in the Bottoms
Posts: 14,992
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 180 Post(s)
Liked: 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bsims2719 View Post

Ok, so what you are saying is that you have a $50 rolled on application DIY solution that surpasses a $2500 screen material? Pretty impressive if true.

Could you please provide the ingredients or the link to the thread. I would like to compare it to the Sherwin Williams and just plain ol UPW.

OK...let's do something "White" first since you want to compare against other "Whites".

1 quart Behr Premium Plus ULTRA UPW Interior Enamel (Flat)
1 pint Minwax Polycrilic Water Based Polyurethane (Clear Satin)
16 oz Delta CeramCoat White Pearl Finish. (Michaels Arts & Crafts)
8 oz. Water (Distilled or Filtered)

Apply onto a smooth surface using a 1/4" Nap Roller (..or Foam Finish Roller)

Want a a easy Contrast boost? Add 8 oz Craftsmart Silver Metallic (Michaels Arts & Crafts)


This mixture will perform even better if sprayed. If rolled, only the users application skills can detract from the end results.

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
MississippiMan is offline  
post #9 of 110 Old 01-30-2011, 10:39 AM
Senior Member
 
Bsims2719's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 461
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 26 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post

OK...let's do something "White" first since you want to compare against other "Whites".

1 quart Behr Premium Plus ULTRA UPW Interior Enamel (Flat)
1 pint Minwax Polycrilic Water Based Polyurethane (Clear Satin)
16 oz Delta CeramCoat White Pearl Finish. (Michaels Arts & Crafts)
8 oz. Water (Distilled or Filtered)

Apply onto a smooth surface using a 1/4" Nap Roller (..or Foam Finish Roller)

Want a a easy Contrast boost? Add 8 oz Craftsmart Silver Metallic (Michaels Arts & Crafts)


This mixture will perform even better if sprayed. If rolled, only the users application skills can detract from the end results.

Thanks for the feedback. Actually it doesn't have to white or rolled on. I am looking for the best screen at a reasonable cost. My last setup was a Panny AX200 with a DaLite High Power. I sold that setup to go to 1080p. I really like the look of the high power the only problem was that you had to wear the projector as a hat to get the full effect.

Based on what I have read in this forum it seems like, correct me if I am wrong, you are trying to duplicate a Firehawk screen in a DIY solution. Increase black level without diminishing the white level with increased gain to give the image more pop.

This is what I really liked about the High Power however you could tell that because it was a white screen it was also reducing the black level which I didn't like. Basically I am looking for the most "pop" or depth image at the most reasonable price.

While the Silver Fire and Mudd applications look intriguing it does seem like a lot of work just to get a sample to make sure that its the image I'm looking for.

I don't know if this has ever been asked of you (or if its allowed on this forum, forgive me if its not), but do you provide samples? I would be willing to pay for your time and labor. I'm thinking you could take 1'x1' or 2'x2' panels and place them back together as a larger sheet and then paint. I would be willing to bet that their are other people on this forum that would be willing to pay for one of the panels to defer the overall cost.


Thanks
Bsims2719 is offline  
post #10 of 110 Old 01-31-2011, 05:42 AM
Vao
Member
 
Vao's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Bulgaria
Posts: 106
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Hm well lets see

Epson 8350 + DIY Screen - SF 3.0


Thread post

Epson 9700 + Black Diamond II (cost 3000$)


Thread Post

JVC DLA-X35, 150" 2.35:1 Flat Screen
Vao is offline  
post #11 of 110 Old 01-31-2011, 05:51 AM
AVS Special Member
 
bud16415's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Erie Pa
Posts: 3,130
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bsims2719 View Post

With all due respect to the people who have put countless man hours into this;

This DIY forum really lacks a scientific prospective. Meaning there is to much bias. You can't give impressions or criticisms if you are the one invested into the process or the DIY'er.

Here is what I wish someone would do. Take the most popular DIY solutions (Mudd, Silverfire, etc.) and the most inexpensive solutions (plain white paint, cheap pull down screen, the ProjectorCentral paint review) and compare them.

Here's the catch. The people comparing them must no nothing about the DIY process or even projectors. They are just common people looking at an image. It takes at least 25 people to be statistically significant. All variables except the screen must be the same. Same projector, same viewing material, etc.

MM mentioned the unbiased survey he did at a trade show some years ago, but didn't mention a lot of the scientific studies that have also been done over the last 5 years.

You mentioned in your post a lack of scientific perspective here now and that was not always the case. When we talk about a scientific process that implies unbiased evaluation even if the thing being tested is of your own doing. It's not necessary the person doing the testing is totally unaware of the subject only that he is honest in his scientific approach. In fact as testing and claims are done here it might help if the person did have experience in the overall subject matter because things like comparing different projectors or different room settings play an equal part to the screen being subjected to scrutiny.

Many samples of many DIY screens and commercial screens have been scientifically compared both side by side and using laboratory grade light and color analyses equipment. The side by side work was documented in fairly made and controlled digital photos, where such photos illustrated what the testing found. The results were never made public to disparage anyone's personal DIY solutions, but rather to rank them and point out where their strong suits were.

Several attempts were made at comparing all kinds of gray concepts involving gain and gray level produced by different methods. With regard to gray, example would be gray can be produced using black and corrective pigments or thru combination of say red green and blue pigments aligned with the colors of light projectors make. Gain produced thru adding shimmering metallic or thru changing surface sheen. There was even some studies begun on surface textures, retro reflective, etc, etc.

Those who dabbled in these activities are mostly long gone now or only occasionally post and then only when someone digs into the archives and asks a new question. The underlying tension produced when science met personalities was more than most wanted to deal with and many of the collaborative studies went other places or became less collaborative. A shame seeing as this forum is called AV science.



Bud

bud16415 is offline  
post #12 of 110 Old 01-31-2011, 06:05 AM
Member
 
develvjd-'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Indianapolis
Posts: 112
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Damn those first two are excellent screen shots.
develvjd- is offline  
post #13 of 110 Old 01-31-2011, 06:23 AM
Vao
Member
 
Vao's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Bulgaria
Posts: 106
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by develvjd- View Post

Damn those first two are excellent screen shots.

yeah... probably because of you

JVC DLA-X35, 150" 2.35:1 Flat Screen
Vao is offline  
post #14 of 110 Old 01-31-2011, 07:32 AM
AVS Club Gold
 
MississippiMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Byhalia, Mississippi. Waaaay down in the Bottoms
Posts: 14,992
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 180 Post(s)
Liked: 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by bud16415 View Post

Those who dabbled in these activities are mostly long gone now or only occasionally post and then only when someone digs into the archives and asks a new question. The underlying tension produced when science met personalities was more than most wanted to deal with and many of the collaborative studies went other places or became less collaborative. A shame seeing as this forum is called AV “science”.


And you neglect to mention that the "real" reason they are "long gone" is because of abusive and corrosive personalities brought on by a combination of self imposed angst and a desire to themselves try very hard to discount EVERYTHING but their own creations as being superior to all else...which was really far from the truth.

Or to mention how many were in fact repeatedly "Banned" for being so abusive...how several were guilty of trolling to create issues, and even orchestrating deliberate attacks by using multiple identities to try to fool the Mods..

Or how they deserted AVS to form their own little overtly biased community where only their own ideas have merit and are allowed to be discussed.
(...yet AVS continues to be the most read and respected Forum on the Web.)

Any value all the science might have possessed went south with the common decency that might have been shown. Instead, science was wielded like a Club to beat down dissenting opinions and different applications, and a LOT of that science was presented in a skewered manner to show such biased thinking, it being obviously tilted toward favoring personal opinions and judgments. Let's not forget to mention that most of the resulting DIY applications were a limited, under performing bunch as well. Sometimes a "too firm" belief in only using accepted science limits oneself to mediocrity.

You know how easy it is to become both judgmental and snipish, and from there it's all to easy to fall into being abusive. But worse still, when one attempts to use science alone to bolster an argument in a field where creativity joins hands with effort, such actions are in fact more confining, leading some to determine that there is only one "right way" to accomplish a goal, therein eliminating creativity. Science is a tool to use...not "abuse".

You must be honest....if such people and their own purported goals had held sway, do you think there would be the variables that are freely discussed regularly on this Forum? Certainly, there are some applications that many seem to favor more than others, but that comes from seeing posted "End User" results, not continually bumped and hyped postings by "the Creators" chock full of graphs and tables.

I've never ignored science for what it is worth, but I have deplored the use of science as a weapon of bias.

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
MississippiMan is offline  
post #15 of 110 Old 01-31-2011, 08:37 AM
AVS Special Member
 
bud16415's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Erie Pa
Posts: 3,130
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post
And you neglect to mention that the "real" reason they are "long gone" is because of abusive and corrosive personalities brought on by a combination of self imposed angst and a desire to themselves try very hard to discount EVERYTHING but their own creations as being superior to all else...which was really far from the truth.

Or to mention how many were in fact repeatedly "Banned" for being so abusive...how several were guilty of trolling to create issues, and even orchestrating deliberate attacks by using multiple identities to try to fool the Mods..

Or how they deserted AVS to form their own little overtly biased community where only their own ideas have merit and are allowed to be discussed.
(...yet AVS continues to be the most read and respected Forum on the Web.)

Any value all the science might have possessed went south with the common decency that might have been shown. Instead, science was wielded like a Club to beat down dissenting opinions and different applications, and a LOT of that science was presented in a skewered manner to show such biased thinking, it being obviously tilted toward favoring personal opinions and judgments. Let's not forget to mention that most of the resulting DIY applications were a limited, under performing bunch as well. Sometimes a "too firm" belief in only using accepted science limits oneself to mediocrity.

You know how easy it is to become both judgmental and snipish, and from there it's all to easy to fall into being abusive. But worse still, when one attempts to use science alone to bolster an argument in a field where creativity joins hands with effort, such actions are in fact more confining, leading some to determine that there is only one "right way" to accomplish a goal, therein eliminating creativity. Science is a tool to use...not "abuse".

You must be honest....if such people and their own purported goals had held sway, do you think there would be the variables that are freely discussed regularly on this Forum? Certainly, there are some applications that many seem to favor more than others, but that comes from seeing posted "End User" results, not continually bumped and hyped postings by "the Creators" chock full of graphs and tables.

I've never ignored science for what it is worth, but I have deplored the use of science as a weapon of bias.
I won’t comment on the above, all the posts are there for anyone to read and interpret the DIY intent and merits of the screens produced.

Many of the scientific quests lead down paths that went no place. Even the failures taught lessons though.

Anyone reading has to make up their own minds as to what they read and believe.

I wont go into the issues of screen shots unless someone wants to talk again on the subject, lots of the new members missed out on the many 1000’s of posts talking about screen shot comparisons and what they mean.


Bud

bud16415 is offline  
post #16 of 110 Old 01-31-2011, 07:54 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
Jim McC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Oconomowoc, WI.
Posts: 5,899
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 32
Screen shots are as useful as tits on a bull.
Jim McC is online now  
post #17 of 110 Old 02-01-2011, 05:27 AM
AVS Club Gold
 
MississippiMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Byhalia, Mississippi. Waaaay down in the Bottoms
Posts: 14,992
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 180 Post(s)
Liked: 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim McC View Post

Screen shots are as useful as tits on a bull.

More so than your comments. Even those "tits".

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
MississippiMan is offline  
post #18 of 110 Old 02-01-2011, 05:31 PM
Member
 
Ranick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Twin Cities, MN
Posts: 38
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I emailed Evan over at PC about his article and about the advances that have been made in DIY painted screens. I thought you guys might be interested in the correspondence.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > Subject: paint formulas
> Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2011 10:51:34 -0800
>
> ProjectorCentral.com
> Hi Rick,
>
> I see your note about the paint formulas you mention being "far
> superior" to the white we ended up with.
>
> When color balance is perfect already, it can't get more perfect--
> color balance is either accurate or it isn't. When contrast and gain
> falls between the Studiotek 100 and 130, two of the finest screens on
> the market, one has an excellent solution.
>
> In what ways do you think the paints you suggest are far superior to
> the Stewart products, or to a paint which accurately replicates them?
> I'll be happy to test them, but I'd like to know what you think I will
> see.
>
> Best,
> Evan
>
>
> Evan Powell
> Editor

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

On Feb 1, 2011, at 12:25 PM, Rick wrote:

Hi Evan,

There has been some real advances in DIY screen painting, particularly over the last few years. I think if you read through some of the linked posts, you will be amazed by what is possible.

Here is a thread that was spawned by your article...Mississippi Man (one of the resident experts) can be a little rough on people sometimes, but he with a few others have been doing extensive experimentation and refinement of their paint mixes, and these mixes have been implemented by hundreds of people with excellent results.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1310840
(notice the screen shots showing the HC Grey screen and it's excellent ambient light qualities...all for penny's on the dollar compared to something like the new Black Diamond screens)

The two highest quality mixes out there right now are RS-MaxxMudd and Silver Fire. Here are the links to those two formulas:

Link for RS-MaxxMudd http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1139061

Link for Silver Fire http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1311989

I think there is another article in this if you'd want to pursue high end DIY screens. I'm sure many of your readers would find it very interesting and informative, especially when they realize they can get such stellar results for what some companies would charge just to ship their products

To be sure, there will still be a market for very simple solutions like a basic white; however, if someone is willing to invest time and effort amazing results can be achieved.

I hope this information helps you out!

Best Regards,
Rick

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


Hi Rick,

Thanks kindly for the feedback. The purpose of the article was to raise awareness among novice readers that an excellent screen surface is possible without spending thousands on professional screens. I'm sorry if we didn't end up promoting someone's pet solution.

I personally find the effect of gray/silver, so-called HC screens, to be offputting, so I don't care to promote them as an ideal solution. That is true of all gray/silver screens, whether they are Stewart Grayhawk/Firehawk, or Biack Diamond, or Vutec's SilverStar, or whatever. Obviously some people like them. I also object to higher gain surfaces for home theater, but some like those as well.

The paint we found was a one quart, no mix, no blend, no muss no fuss solution that produces a beautiful image from a pure white surface. We were opting for a simple solution that has great home theater performance in a dark room.

If MaxxMudd is a high gain gray/silver alternative, it is a different concept with a different objective. We will try to mix some up and take a look. But if it ends up replicating the effects of the gray screens mentioned above, it is not likely to be met with a lot of enthusiasm around here. But there is room for differences of opinion. Some people love Black Diamond, and I would not consider having one in my house.

Thanks again for taking the time to forward this info.

Evan


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Ranick is offline  
post #19 of 110 Old 02-01-2011, 11:30 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
Jim McC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Oconomowoc, WI.
Posts: 5,899
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 32
Uh Oh. Get ready for a long rant from MMan on Evan's reply.
Jim McC is online now  
post #20 of 110 Old 02-02-2011, 12:39 AM
Member
 
Ranick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Twin Cities, MN
Posts: 38
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Yea I did tee up a good one for him didn't I? Oh well, maybe Evan will actually do some testing and see the light so to speak?


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Ranick is offline  
post #21 of 110 Old 02-02-2011, 01:14 AM
AVS Club Gold
 
MississippiMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Byhalia, Mississippi. Waaaay down in the Bottoms
Posts: 14,992
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 180 Post(s)
Liked: 232
No Rant, just a statement of the obvious.

The man has both a fixation toward white screens, and a total disdain for "Silver" or "Black Screen" applications.

He also discounts as irrelevant anyone who does not to own/have a dedicated Theater for wanting to have better than average performance in varying degrees of ambient light, something NO white screen can accomplish.

He does say he'd be willing to consider doing a test, but chooses only one application to refer to.

His comment about not promoting someone's "Pet Application" was uncalled for and makes one one wonder where that came from. If one reads all the comments I've posted personally, they will note I never mentioned any specific application by name, and even referred to a years old mix when I did bring up the subject of "comparisons".

Either he as preconceived opinions he's developed over time that will take some doing to undo, or his comments are being influenced by someone's prior statements to him, because I know with a certainty he hasn't delved into or read anywhere near enough to be able to make definitive judgments and somewhat snippish comments.

Some folks could turn this all into something it shouldn't be, a war of attrition...by goading on adversity instead of cooperation. Me? I'm defending DIY here....trying to bolster it's reputation that has been slighted by a too casual overlooking, up to an outright dismissal of nearly everything that represents state of the art DIY screen making. I'm not defending myself.

I have no doubt that if Evan tests a few DIY examples, using mixes that are acknowledged to be correct and up to date, and applies the paint as specified, he's going to be in for a surprise. As to if he relates such without undue bias...that is going to depend on if he can take a look at a bigger picture that the one seen only in dedicated Theaters in absolute darkness, using +$3500.00 PJs.

DIY doesn't revolve around such things. Not many people who buy a JVC HD50 are considering a DIY Screen. Any Test and ensuing article would have to address the genre suitable for normal humans on low budgets who still want exceptional performance in whatever environ they have to deal with.

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
MississippiMan is offline  
post #22 of 110 Old 02-02-2011, 02:06 AM
Advanced Member
 
Kevin 3000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 811
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Yet still there are no contenders that has beaten the Black Diamond in bright ambient conditions `like for like` as posted in the BD thread.
The above pic is not evenely lit by ambient light `dark corner.
The challenge has ben opened in the BD thread for months now so post your best or be contented with what you have, others have tried and failed.
Kevin 3000 is offline  
post #23 of 110 Old 02-02-2011, 02:13 AM
AVS Club Gold
 
MississippiMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Byhalia, Mississippi. Waaaay down in the Bottoms
Posts: 14,992
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 180 Post(s)
Liked: 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin 3000 View Post

Yet still there are no contenders that has beaten the Black Diamond in bright ambient conditions `like for like` as posted in the BD thread.
The above pic is not evenely lit by ambient light `dark corner.
The challenge has ben opened in the BD thread for months now so post your best or be contented with what you have, others have tried and failed.

You back again with the same old malarky? I thought you ran away after that set of images posted as your own on the BD Thread was shown to be someone else's. Are you even allowed to post on that Thread anymore?

The BD Screen is shackled by it's own set of failings, the least of which is extreme cost. In any event this is the DIY Screen Forum and we are discussing DIY Screens ONLY...so your comments are both OT and inappropriate.

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
MississippiMan is offline  
post #24 of 110 Old 02-02-2011, 02:16 AM
AVS Special Member
 
pb_maxxx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: chicago
Posts: 2,386
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 17
Kevin 3000;

the amount of ambient light (daylight) on that screen far exceeds your incandeslent light... it's not even close,

based on those pics alone... the BD loses badly.
pb_maxxx is offline  
post #25 of 110 Old 02-02-2011, 02:27 AM
AVS Club Gold
 
MississippiMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Byhalia, Mississippi. Waaaay down in the Bottoms
Posts: 14,992
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 180 Post(s)
Liked: 232
fraisa's shots look as good as they do because I helped him find the way to take decent shots in ambient light.

However only the "TV" shots show anything near the level of watch-ability most discerning DIY'ers have come to take for granted with the better DIY applications. That...and the Cartoons.

It is the 9700s extreme contrast that is also making whatever difference it can under those lighted circumstances. A $3000.00+ PJ shooting at a almost $3000.00 screen.

The 8350 and SF? $Maybe $1500.00 total at max.

Why, you could fly First Class round trip to Maui on the difference. Another great example of what any article should discover and relate.

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
MississippiMan is offline  
post #26 of 110 Old 02-02-2011, 03:05 AM
Advanced Member
 
Kevin 3000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 811
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Time is money if employed so take that into consideration and the MESS involved
would mean treating the Wife/GF and we all know how much that costs.

If non of the above applies i can see why this DIY appeals apart from 1 aspect the end result is a compromise on my acceptable ambient viewing quality.

Go compare with what you have and see what you are missing.
Kevin 3000 is offline  
post #27 of 110 Old 02-02-2011, 04:42 AM
Vao
Member
 
Vao's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Bulgaria
Posts: 106
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
For me its hard to believe on a man who posting an article for DIY solutions like an expert and who had never heard about the most used DIY paints like SF and MaxxMudd. It's seems that he is just not too much in the business.

JVC DLA-X35, 150" 2.35:1 Flat Screen
Vao is offline  
post #28 of 110 Old 02-02-2011, 02:42 PM
Member
 
Ranick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Twin Cities, MN
Posts: 38
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
My last two emails:

On Feb 1, 2011, at 5:51 PM, Rick wrote:

Hi Evan,

No problem, glad I could help. I agree, there is always a demand for a quality basic and simple application.

I certainly wasn't trying to promote any project in particular. The RS-MaxxMudd and Silver Fire are methods that have evolved over the years and after much input by multiple DIY'ers. As far as the two mixes goes, all that experimentation has spawned many different variances to deal with different situations, from the proverbial "man cave" with zero ambient light, to areas like living rooms and the like which may have significant ambient light.

I was thinking you and your readers may benefit from the different approaches available since the basic white screen you've developed is somewhat limited for anything except totally light controlled environments.

I hope you can try out some of these different DIY screens and have good luck with them.

Regards,
Rick

I will certainly do some testing with them, and update the paint article with our findings as appropriate. Might take a little while, as we've got other things in the mill. But I am curious for sure.


I do appreciate the detailed feedback.


Best,
evan


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Ranick is offline  
post #29 of 110 Old 02-02-2011, 04:45 PM
Member
 
aharami's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 66
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post

fraisa's shots look as good as they do because I helped him find the way to take decent shots in ambient light.

this is an interesting thread. I really hope PC does a test with an open mind and posts the results accurately, even if that means the editor's opinions were wrong.

Talking about frasia - I'm new here so I don't know much of the history of memebers, but I've been posting/following the Epson 8700 thread closely. I noticed that everytime someone posted asking what screen they should buy, frasia would jump in and recommend a BD screen. I was starting to wonder why someone would spend $3K on a screen when they only spent $2K on the PJ. Then someone pointed out that frasia is a BD dealer and was just trying to drum up more business for himself. I think he stopped posting about that. I have to admit though, his screenshots got me considering a more advanced DIY screen that can shed ambient light.
aharami is offline  
post #30 of 110 Old 02-02-2011, 05:57 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
Jim McC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Oconomowoc, WI.
Posts: 5,899
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 32
Enough with the screen shots already. If this were a court of law, screen shots would be in-admissable.
Jim McC is online now  
Reply DIY Screen Section

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off