Paint recommendation for 144" stretch blackout cloth screen with Epson 1080UB? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 25 Old 01-30-2011, 09:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Pardon me if I've missed the answer between the dozens of threads and hundreds of pages I've read. Or maybe I've read too much and am lost in all the nuances?

I'm not sure which paint to use on my 144" screen of stretched blackout cloth. From what I've read, I think Silver Fire 2.0 is the way to go. But I'm not sure.

The screen is on one end of a long and completely light controlled large basement game and theater room. All current lighting is set to not shine directly on the screen. The indirect light is controlled pretty well by the open rafter ceiling, dark carpet, and huge black chalkboard wall.

I have an Epson 1080UB about 16' back with seating about 15' back with the greatest seating angle to the screen of about 45 degrees.

Thanks,

Jeff
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post #2 of 25 Old 01-31-2011, 11:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Here's a photo in case it helps judge the light level.
At f2.8, iso1000, 5 sec., this still looks lighter than it really is.

Also, since I have blackout cloth I understand I need to put a base coat or two on. I've seen Kilz2 and Behr suggested. Make a difference? I would like to get this done by the weekend and would like to get a start on it Tuesday.

Thanks!

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post #3 of 25 Old 02-01-2011, 05:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LightGuyHD View Post

Here's a photo in case it helps judge the light level.
At f2.8, iso1000, 5 sec., this still looks lighter than it really is.

Also, since I have blackout cloth I understand I need to put a base coat or two on. I've seen Kilz2 and Behr suggested. Make a difference? I would like to get this done by the weekend and would like to get a start on it Tuesday.

Thanks!


SF 2.0 would be a good choice, as would RS-MaxxMudd Standard, the latter being easier to assemble between now and the weekend.

The need for a White base is twofold. You want something to "treat" the BOC to eliminate the "Fuzzies" that you get when applying a first coat via sprayer. Apply the first coat of white, lightly sand to knock off the niftkins, apply one more coat. If it gtoes on smooth your ready to squirt the good stuff.

The white base also assures that you won't waste any lumens through absorption.

Don't try to cover the BOC with that first coat, lest you get a run. Just paint it lightly using quick passes and 70% overlap on each row.

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post #4 of 25 Old 02-01-2011, 07:02 AM - Thread Starter
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Thank you sir.

Does it matter what the white base is?

And I have all the supplies for Silver Fire. That said, would I be better off with one over the other?
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post #5 of 25 Old 02-03-2011, 12:37 AM - Thread Starter
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Alright. When I stretched the blackout cloth on the frame last year, I missed the part about putting the vinyl side out, so as I've found, primering and sanding the cloth side isn't a whole lot of fun. At this point, I think I have 5 thin coats on the thing and have sanded it three times to get off the fuzzies. (I didn't plan on five coats...I had a mishap during sanding where some screw tips poked two 1/8" holes in the screen from behind.)

So the questions I have at this point...Do I need to continue to prime until the fabric texture is totally gone? If not, there are a couple spots that are slightly off color (darker) from the sanding mishap--do I need to continue to primer until these are not discernible?

One more...the patches for the holes filled up pretty well, but are ever so slightly visible, but only when trying to find them. How perfect do the repairs really need to be?

Thanks for any guidance anyone can offer.
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post #6 of 25 Old 02-03-2011, 07:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LightGuyHD View Post

Alright.

So the questions I have at this point...Do I need to continue to prime until the fabric texture is totally gone? If not, there are a couple spots that are slightly off color (darker) from the sanding mishap--do I need to continue to primer until these are not discernible?

If you decide to paint on the BOC a Flat White coating of the UPW you'll use in making the RS-MMudd beforehand to achieve the whitest possible undercoat, then your set. If your planning to go straight to the RS-MMud, you had better get the primed surface as uniformly shaded as possible.

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One more...the patches for the holes filled up pretty well, but are ever so slightly visible, but only when trying to find them. How perfect do the repairs really need to be?

What you can hardly see now when you "try" you'll be able to more easily see later with a Contrast boosting paint w/Gain. As to if you can live / deal with such is gonna be your call, but I'd advise that if this Screen is to be used for a while and viewed with any degree of critical watching intended, then going to any extra effort to redeem any blemishes will pay dividends in both image quality and claiming rights to the much valued DIY'ers reward....pride.

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post #7 of 25 Old 02-03-2011, 07:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LightGuyHD View Post

So the questions I have at this point...Do I need to continue to prime until the fabric texture is totally gone?

Are you saying that you are still getting fuzzies after 5 coats and that sanding between each coat is getting the surface smooth, but when you spray the fuzzies come back?

This is normal and can't be remedied with spraying. Especially with a water based paint. I've tried it and you'll fight it for MANY more coats. You need to roll on the first coat. Hopefully you can take down the screen so that it lays flat.

I won't be near a PC until after lunch, but I have a post on here somewhere that explains the process to a degree. I'll try to look for it ASAP.

After you roll, then you can spray to your heart's content with whatever flavor of mix you want.

EDIT: The first coat meaning the white base coat.

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post #8 of 25 Old 02-03-2011, 07:53 AM
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I think he's gotten rid of the Fuzzies, but now he's still dealing with the visible fabric weave texture of the BOC. Short of using Artist's Gesso to skim the Screen, it's gonna be hard to eliminate it completely.

Yep, a couple thick enough layers of rolled on paint might do the trick, providing such does not introduce any other potential texture/blemish issues.

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post #9 of 25 Old 02-03-2011, 02:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post

Short of using Artist's Gesso to skim the Screen, it's gonna be hard to eliminate it completely.

Absolutely not true. All of my screens were "prepped" with UPW or the like.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post

Yep, a couple thick enough layers of rolled on paint might do the trick, providing such does not introduce any other potential texture/blemish issues.

"Thick" is not needed. Again, all of my screens, when prepped using UPW, were thinned to a similar viscosity as nearly any final DIY mix. One coat, a light sanding, then a second coat. No fuzzies and very smooth.

Rolling the BOC won't introduce any potential blemishes or mistakes when done with care. As said before, it is no different than someone trying their hand at spraying. With instruction from forum members and some good technique and practice, one can get great results with both methods.

Why do you keep minimizing my posts when it comes to painting BOC? Nearly every one of my posts has a reply by you with something to the effect of "Yeah that might/probably work...BUT...."

I've done nothing but try to offer up a simple AND effective solution for BOC users.

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post #10 of 25 Old 02-03-2011, 07:07 PM - Thread Starter
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I won't be rolling it. Too much give in the fabric on a screen this size=too worried about introducing lines.

MMan, before I got your response about either using MaxxMudd or SF, I got the supplies for SF. And since the supplies for SF were being shipped from Chicago with no guarantee when they would get here, I went out and got the supplies for SFv2, just in case.

So, due to my self-induced and the weather troubles, I won't be getting around to the painting until tomorrow. So............regardless of what I bought, I would like to do whatever one would be best. Final thoughts? SF, SFv2 or RS-Maxxmudd ?
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post #11 of 25 Old 02-03-2011, 10:09 PM
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Please Highside.

Cease the drama. The OP is using the woven cloth side...by accident. Did you use the Cloth side?
I think not. Your so busy finding a reason to call me out for something, your not bothering to read what is being posted by others. Listen...I call 'em as I see 'em develop, not as I want 'em to be.

Maybe 7 out of 10 times, a used BOC screen will be too loose to evenly apply Roller pressure to. 4 out of 10 times, even when new there's "tauntness issues" that makes rolling a sucessfull BOC problimatical for a NOOB.

I don't like those odds. Your posts certainly have no influence as to how I see things, and I don't need to try to lessen their relevance. You can feel free to so however.

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post #12 of 25 Old 02-03-2011, 10:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LightGuyHD View Post

I won't be rolling it. Too much give in the fabric on a screen this size=too worried about introducing lines.

MMan, before I got your response about either using MaxxMudd or SF, I got the supplies for SF. And since the supplies for SF were being shipped from Chicago with no guarantee when they would get here, I went out and got the supplies for SFv2, just in case.

So, due to my self-induced and the weather troubles, I won't be getting around to the painting until tomorrow. So............regardless of what I bought, I would like to do whatever one would be best. Final thoughts? SF, SFv2 or RS-Maxxmudd ?

SF v2 3.0

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post #13 of 25 Old 02-04-2011, 07:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Due to getting home from Lowes with my Kilz2 quart after they closed only to open it and find it to be tinted green, I still haven't painted it. Now I see the SILVER FIRE V2~HG option. Would this be a recommendation for my combo game room/HT?
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post #14 of 25 Old 02-05-2011, 12:35 AM
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no SF V2 HG is not a good fit for your screen. too much silver will introduce graininess on a textured screen.
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post #15 of 25 Old 02-05-2011, 08:29 AM
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no SF V2 HG is not a good fit for your screen. too much silver will introduce graininess on a textured screen.

Yeah...what he said.

Let's not let the issue of texture cause any more grief for you or this thread.

Please!

If you want to have slightly higher gain and still get some Contrast boosting, drop down into SF v.2 2.0

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post #16 of 25 Old 02-05-2011, 09:40 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks guys.

Just got done sanding off some major runs from what was supposed to be the final coat of primer. So one more thin coat and on to the painting. Good news is almost all the texture is gone.

Thanks for all your help!
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post #17 of 25 Old 02-05-2011, 10:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LightGuyHD View Post

Thanks guys.

Just got done sanding off some major runs from what was supposed to be the final coat of primer. So one more thin coat and on to the painting. Good news is almost all the texture is gone.

Thanks for all your help!

Your most excitedly welcome! Great news about that Texture!

Have a "Super Duper" Sunday!

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post #18 of 25 Old 02-05-2011, 07:29 PM - Thread Starter
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I measured the ingredients precisely and mixed them all up for use in the CS DD, but it was THICK. So I proceeded to add 2oz of water straining them through the nylon thingie, and had to repeat this 6 times until it started to flow through the strainer without much hesitation.

The two dusters I put on were very light. Now with two heavier coats on, there are still streaks. Is this normal? I think I'm allowed two more coats, sanding after the next, right?

Maybe it is dead on and I don't know it, but right now it still looks iffy and I'm wondering if I added too much water.
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post #19 of 25 Old 02-05-2011, 07:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Oh, and I've probably only gone through about 12-14 oz out of the tank for my 144" 16x6 screen. This sound right or am I putting it one too thin?
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post #20 of 25 Old 02-05-2011, 07:52 PM
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Quote:
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Oh, and I've probably only gone through about 12-14 oz out of the tank for my 144" 16x6 screen. This sound right or am I putting it one too thin?


Almost too thin.....just slow down a teeny bit, and make sure your overlapping the remaining rows by 60-70%

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post #21 of 25 Old 02-05-2011, 07:54 PM - Thread Starter
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Thank MMan.

I guess I am a bit gunshy after sanding off several feet of runs this morning from when I got brave last night and slowed down with the primer.

Thanks for the help. Have a good flight home. Pics coming soon.
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post #22 of 25 Old 02-06-2011, 01:31 AM - Thread Starter
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I did it. Not sure my application is the best, but it looks darn good anyhow. Just in time for the big game. Thanks gang for the assistance. I hope to follow up with some lessons learned after I catch my breath.

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post #23 of 25 Old 02-06-2011, 07:32 AM
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LightGuyHD;

beautiful. beautiful. had to say it again.
great contrast from the bight whites all the way down to the jet blacks.
which mix did you end up going with?

what's interesting in your case is the SIZE of your screen and also that you're no newbie to projection screens... you had a reference point to compare this to...

enjoy the game.
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post #24 of 25 Old 02-06-2011, 12:06 PM
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You know, whether or not it was SF v.2 2.0 - 3.0 -3.5 ...............it makes little difference. At 16' throw and a Epson 1080ub (...with how many hours?) a 1.4 gain 144" diagonal screen would only deliver 14 fls at most. If the OP/TS used any version above 2.0, these results will be turning a lot of heads toward SF v.2 for more reason than just ambient light watch-ability

I feel the shot above goes a distance in showing just how effective a mid-tone Gray Screen can be if it's composition is well balanced between Dark screen attributes, and High Gain screen advantages.

But what makes me really happy is that this example was a re-do of a very large BOC Screen with the "projected on surface" being the Cloth Weave side, not the Rubberized side. That just only goes to show that such surfaces can & will benefit from painting on an advanced mix via Spraying.

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post #25 of 25 Old 02-06-2011, 09:49 PM - Thread Starter
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I ended up going with SF v2 2.5.
The projector has about 700 hours on it.
I measured and it is 14.5 feet from the screen.

Upon further review today, it looked killer. In the past I had to dim the lighting down pretty far for the screen not to get washed out. Today I was able to have the lighting on all the way without any distraction of anything appearing washed out. The colors were awesome, this seems to be the biggest improvement. Blacks are absolutely pitch black. I think I'm seeing detail I haven't before. And I know it is much clearer...so much in fact that the screen may be too big now as I can clearly see the pixels, from the seating area as where before I only could if I looked for them.

Thanks to all for the help. I hope to return the favor soon by taking some pictures to help others and give some lessons learned. First though I need to rest a few days after spending most of the week on this.

Plus the celebration here in Titletown rages on.

--Jeff
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