The Official Silver Fire V.2 Thread. - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 1609 Old 02-02-2011, 05:41 PM
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Can Phthalocyanine Blue be used in place of UltraMarine Blue?
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post #32 of 1609 Old 02-02-2011, 06:42 PM
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no. that is one of the reason's it took so long to move from the matts to the standard basics.

phalo blue and ultramarine blue are not interchangable as they are completely two different shades of blue. altering the mix will push the color away from nuetral. a lot of time was put into the change to V2... only the brand of the colors remained the same.
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post #33 of 1609 Old 02-02-2011, 06:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pb_maxxx View Post

no. that is one of the reason's it took so long to move from the matts to the standard basics.

okee dokee, just had some of the non-matt ph blue that an online retailer mistakenly shipped me.
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post #34 of 1609 Old 02-02-2011, 06:53 PM
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I just received all the Matt colours except PH Blue. Can I use the Red, Yellow amd Green Matt paint with the UltraMarine Blue?

I was planning on going with the SF 2.0, now should I change the color component to 2.5?

Thanks
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post #35 of 1609 Old 02-02-2011, 08:15 PM
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So you would recommend returning the delta silver for the liquitex silver even if using v1? That shouldn't be a problem. That's where the main increase in gain is obtained, correct? So the amount of the color components doesn't change with this increased gain? I was told SF 5.0 (v1) would be the best formula for my projector. Would this change at all for v2? I'm mainly asking since the amount v1 makes is not sufficient in 1 batch, and it sounds like from http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...4#post19930744 that the amount could be less? Or is that just because v2 color components make more than v1? Just hoping I don't have to make a second batch unless I absolutely have to to get the desired performance.
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post #36 of 1609 Old 02-02-2011, 11:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CGRemakes View Post

Or is that just because v2 color components make more than v1? Just hoping I don't have to make a second batch unless I absolutely have to to get the desired performance.

I'm not sure what the issue is. Simply double the listed amounts and make a bigger batch. The Amount of materials you get overall to use for the Color Components certainly allow for such.

As for substituting one Silver for another, that would seem obvious if you are able to do so.

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post #37 of 1609 Old 02-03-2011, 02:39 AM
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MM is correct, the beauty of V2 is in the numbers, and it's very easy to increase the color components for darker SF's without having to increase the base/viscosity components.

as posted the V2 color components = 120 ml... or approx 4.25oz.

for V2 5.0, 6.0... simply double only the color compoments and you'll have about 8.5oz of colorant to work from.
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post #38 of 1609 Old 02-03-2011, 06:56 AM
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Btw, I was able to find a nylon filter at the local Benjamin Moore store. Upon checking further in HD, I noticed that they have the nylon filters, but only for 5 gallons.
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post #39 of 1609 Old 02-03-2011, 07:41 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aharami View Post

Btw, I was able to find a nylon filter at the local Benjamin Moore store. Upon checking further in HD, I noticed that they have the nylon filters, but only for 5 gallons.

Well there ya go. That was worth the effort to go check, eh?

Don't fret though, those Cone Filters make great air conditioned Party Hats.

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post #40 of 1609 Old 02-03-2011, 10:18 AM
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When mixing SF v2, should we use the same approach when it comes to the gold in the reflective base as is recommended for v1? That being start with half and adjust from there based on the color of the mix. Or do the new metallic components make the results from v2 more consistent?
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post #41 of 1609 Old 02-03-2011, 10:20 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NewGate88 View Post

When mixing SF v2, should we use the same approach when it comes to the gold in the reflective base as is recommended for v1? That being start with half and adjust from there based on the color of the mix. Or do the new metallic components make the results from v2 more consistent?

Always start with less. Adding more is easy. Subtracting just isn't feasible.

Also, adding the gold comes AFTER the colorant is mixed in, because then you can then judge the shade and color of the "Gray" better since the Reflective Base is always lighter and looks to be a pretty light Silvery Gray without the colorant added.

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post #42 of 1609 Old 02-03-2011, 11:17 AM
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hey guys. one again, let's refrain from adding a bunch of substitutions on the mix.

the mix should be as is.

do not half the gold, it is there for a reason and should be mixed in it's entirety to the base components. please do not deviate from that.
let's not make the same mistakes and assumption with V2.

the reason for the increased amount of colorant in V2 is to help eliminate small errors in measurement as well as to be able to recommend the darker variants.

finally, should the final mix need any alteration, it's almost always done so with the red or green.

thanx.
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post #43 of 1609 Old 02-03-2011, 12:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pb_maxxx View Post
hey guys. one again, let's refrain from adding a bunch of substitutions on the mix.

the mix should be as is.

do not half the gold, it is there for a reason and should be mixed in it's entirety to the base components. please do not deviate from that.
let's not make the same mistakes and assumption with V2.

thanx.
Oops. My Bad, Partner.

I'm still thinking along SF v1 lines. Noted and corrected.

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post #44 of 1609 Old 02-03-2011, 11:39 PM
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I'm curious how much the ingredients cost. Anyone?
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post #45 of 1609 Old 02-04-2011, 05:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bwaindwain View Post

I'm curious how much the ingredients cost. Anyone?

I just picked up everything on Wednesday.
It was about 70$.
You can save a few bucks by checking AC Moore for the Liquitex. They had it on sale 4$ compared to Michaels at 4.99
Also, Polycrylic at Home Depot was cheaper than Lowes.
One note, I had to go to two different stores to get enough Delta Ceramcoat Pearl and also Liquitex silver metallic. Seemed like each store only stocked two.
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post #46 of 1609 Old 02-04-2011, 06:19 AM
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Just to confirm...if I'm picking up the liquitex for V2, I want the liquitex basics, not the liquitex basic matt colors???
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post #47 of 1609 Old 02-04-2011, 07:18 AM
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yes, the standard liquitex basics. it's unlikely that the matt basics will be in stock unless it's a dick blick.
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post #48 of 1609 Old 02-04-2011, 08:41 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AZ HT View Post

Just to confirm...if I'm picking up the liquitex for V2, I want the liquitex basics, not the liquitex basic matt colors???

People will be wanting "to confirm" the need for the "Basics" over the "Matt Basics" when this post is 3 years old, despite the Formula being listed at the top of this thread, if the formula on the original SF Thread is not updated to show the change.

PB....I'll be going back to alter any posts I can about such, but you must edit the opening page.

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post #49 of 1609 Old 02-04-2011, 02:25 PM
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ok Im gonna give this a shot tonight. I just wanted to post my understanding of the process before I start.

mix base and colorant components separately. colorant mix gets all of 60mL of water. Base gets 18-24oz depending on sprayer - how much water to add for Graco 2900 with 2mm tip?

mix desired amount of colorant to base. mix with mixer.

Check viscosity of paint by pouring thru nylon sock filter. Make 2" depression in filter. If poured at a steady rate (stream no wider than pinky) paint should filter thru w/o requiring you to stop. If paint is too thick, add 2 oz of water, mix and run thru filter. Repeat until viscosity is correct.

no more than 4 coats of SF - 2 dusters and 2 medium coats. Dusters are 12-14" away from wall at 3'/sec. medium coats are 12" away at 1'/sec (not sure about this)

anything wrong/missing with the method above?
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post #50 of 1609 Old 02-04-2011, 04:02 PM
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bwaindwain,

So far I've spent $64 bucks (incl shipping) for all the color components online from Bindersart and Amazon (for the ceramcoat).

The local AC Moore by me didn't have all the colors I needed. It's just easier to have it shipped to my door.

If you pick them up locally print out the Michael's and ACMoore 40% off coupons floating around (applies to stuff not on sale) (google it)

The Qts of the Behr and Minwax will probably be ~$20. So total for for all the paints will be around $85.

+ $90 for the Graco gun and additional 1.5mm nozzle

+ $12 1 sheet of Thrifty white

+ guessing $40-50 bucks for black velvet cloth / wood trim / brackets hardware/ mount / etc.

= ~$250 tentative total

Am I missing anything? Does the thrifty white get glued down to another board?


Quote:
Originally Posted by topher0524 View Post
I just picked up everything on Wednesday.
It was about 70$.
You can save a few bucks by checking AC Moore for the Liquitex. They had it on sale 4$ compared to Michaels at 4.99
Also, Polycrylic at Home Depot was cheaper than Lowes.
One note, I had to go to two different stores to get enough Delta Ceramcoat Pearl and also Liquitex silver metallic. Seemed like each store only stocked two.
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post #51 of 1609 Old 02-04-2011, 04:38 PM
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bwaindwain,

what area of the country are you in.

if you have a menards around, i've seen the wagner CS in several stores on sale for $48. the also generally carry the wagner DD for less than $70. the the really nice one is the the new 550 watt wagner Maxx for $99.
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post #52 of 1609 Old 02-04-2011, 07:47 PM
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I'm in Calgary, Alberta, Canada.
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post #53 of 1609 Old 02-04-2011, 11:22 PM
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These pics arent 100% accurate, but do these colors looks ok? The colors are slightly darker than these pics

Base


Colorant


I was expecting the base to be slightly more silver - with all the silver thats in it
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post #54 of 1609 Old 02-04-2011, 11:38 PM - Thread Starter
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It's harder to see the Silver when it's higher in gain. A Silver that is lower in gain is so because it's shade of "Gray" is darker. ie: Less reflective.

That's a rusty ol can there. Be careful you don't knock off any into the mix.

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post #55 of 1609 Old 02-04-2011, 11:48 PM
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yea I forgot to get a gallon can from HD, so I had to use one of my old UPW cans. The rust is only on the outside, I scrubbed the inside clean. Besides, that's what the filter step is for, right?

Talkin about steps, MM, care to comment on my post #49 up above?
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post #56 of 1609 Old 02-05-2011, 12:09 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aharami View Post

ok Im gonna give this a shot tonight. I just wanted to post my understanding of the process before I start.

mix base and colorant components separately. colorant mix gets all of 60mL of water. Base gets 18-24oz depending on sprayer - how much water to add for Graco 2900 with 2mm tip?

Start by trying the lessor amount. Mix well. Do a strain test. If no pooling occurs, your good. If so, replace paint, rinse filter, add 3 oz. Strain again. Etc. Etc. Etc.

Quote:


mix desired amount of colorant to base. mix with mixer.

I run the Mixer at slow speed and pour the colorant into the middle of the Squirrel Cage to assure quicker and more through mixing. (never mix at any time faster than slow/medium speed.)

Quote:


Check viscosity of paint by pouring thru nylon sock filter. Make 2" depression in filter. If poured at a steady rate (stream no wider than pinky) paint should filter thru w/o requiring you to stop. If paint is too thick, add 2 oz of water, mix and run thru filter. Repeat until viscosity is correct.

Deja Vu.

Quote:


no more than 4 coats of SF - 2 dusters and 2 medium coats. Dusters are 12-14" away from wall at 3'/sec. medium coats are 12" away at 1'/sec (not sure about this)

anything wrong/missing with the method above?

3 finish coats are better...and move a wee bit quicker than 1' sec...but maintain an overlap of each row of a minimum of 60%.

Some of you Guys are like Chorus Girls. High maintenance.

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post #57 of 1609 Old 02-05-2011, 12:25 AM
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aharami;

you are good to go... colorant look like 30K motor oil. thats what im looking for.
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post #58 of 1609 Old 02-05-2011, 04:55 AM
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Thanks MM and pb_maxxx

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Some of you Guys are like Chorus Girls. High maintenance.

hey now, I'm only following your advice - "always ask before you do"
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post #59 of 1609 Old 02-05-2011, 05:59 AM
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aharami,

Any chance you can find someone to record you painting with the Graco? I'm curious to see how the gun lays the paint. The manuals indicate a fan width of 6" at it's widest.. so that's be at least 2x as many passes with the Graco compared to the CS Plus (~12" wide). Maybe we have to keep an eye out for banding with this gun.
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post #60 of 1609 Old 02-05-2011, 08:21 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cbtk View Post

aharami,

Any chance you can find someone to record you painting with the Graco? I'm curious to see how the gun lays the paint. The manuals indicate a fan width of 6" at it's widest.. so that's be at least 2x as many passes with the Graco compared to the CS Plus (~12" wide). Maybe we have to keep an eye out for banding with this gun.

We deal in "Height" not "Width" when discussing the spray Pattern.

Actually, that's about the same size they tell you to expect from the Wagners. But the Mfgs of both guns don't figure that the end user will be diluting the paint with between 25% to 30% water.

The resulting fluidity combined with the air pressure, needle size and the distance maintained from the surface is what will ultimately determine the height of the spray pattern.

As far as banding, with whatever gun is used, that usually occurs because of one or a combination of two reasons.

1. The paint is too thick resulting in a too dense application that coats a limited area too heavily.

2. There was not enough overlapping of the previous row.

Even with a 6" to 8" high pattern, if one effectively overlaps each row by 60-70%, Banding should not occur under normal circumstances. But not thinning the paint enough can almost make that inevitable.

Getting "too much" paint on at any one time using the ulta thin mix is the real potential issue, hence the first two initial extremely light "Dusters" and the fairly rapid motion across the screen when doing the slightly heavier Finish coats. The large overlap done during Dusters and Finish coats is the best preventative against Banding.

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