The Official Silver Fire V.2 Thread. - Page 20 - AVS Forum
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post #571 of 1560 Old 06-27-2011, 03:41 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WereWolf84 View Post

the screen is a 119" high contrast grey screen made in fiberglass material, the throw distance is 12 feet, the viewing distance is about 9 feet, the 8350 is ceiling mounted at living room with strong ambient light, I'm planning to use SF v2.1 5.0, is it ok?

That shade of Gray is certainly capable, but it must be matched with a PJ with sufficient lumens. What are you using?

btw, any of the Daler Rowney or Folk Art's acrylic paint can replace the Liquitex Basics?[/quote]

Not and be considered a SF 2.1 application, or any official SF compilation.
The components are carefully chosen and evaluated, so as to work effectively and in balance with each other. Substituting leads to a "crap shoot" degree of "I wonder if...?"

Not that it "might not work"...just that your results may vary wildly, and you alone must make the judgement call, and reap what you sow.

(...but, if I had listened to naysayers 10 years ago, I wouldn't be here today. Creativity can not flourish without some risk taking.)

To quote James T. Kirk;
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post #572 of 1560 Old 06-27-2011, 07:04 AM
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Will Sintra 3mm work as well as 6 mm or does it have to be thicker? Also, can it rolled so that I can pick it in my car? Otherwise I'll have to rent a U-Haul to bring it in.
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post #573 of 1560 Old 06-27-2011, 07:21 AM
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What is the gain of the SilverFire HG?

It is my understanding that regular SilverFire is about 1.1 - 1.2. Is that true also?
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post #574 of 1560 Old 06-29-2011, 05:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WereWolf84 View Post

Hi, bro MM, can the Epson 8350 PJ match with SF v2.1 5.0 in my situation?

I don't see why not on normal lamp mode.
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post #575 of 1560 Old 06-29-2011, 06:29 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ERuiz View Post

I don't see why not on normal lamp mode.

I concur as long as the viewing mode is either Living Room or Dynamic (calibrated)

Your screen size is what pushes the limitations, but only if your planning any real degree of watching content in appreciable ambient light. 5.0 is pretty dark, and so being will make Foot Lamberts drop to close to 1.0. That will delegate the SF application to a level more akin to a conventional Gray HC Screen. Only the component make up will spell an additional advantage.

Actually I'm being a bit conservative here...but better to have you experience more than you expect than you have you expect more than you achieve. I myself often worry about such things, but it's a telling aspect of having such a versatile application to work with that I have yet to fall below the limits of "more that" acceptable performance.

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post #576 of 1560 Old 06-29-2011, 07:59 AM
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I'm using an 8100 with a SF 2.1 5.5 screen.

I love it.
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post #577 of 1560 Old 06-29-2011, 02:13 PM
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I'll try to posts some pics.

My camera suck though, they keep adjusting for light and they blur out, so they never come out right.

If you have a far throw, go with 2.0 or 3.0, if you have a short throw, then you can go higher.

Just beware, it will hotspot for about the first week until it fully cures, so don't be alarmed.
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post #578 of 1560 Old 06-29-2011, 02:25 PM
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No one responded to my dedicated thread so I am just going to post this here.
I couldn't find exactly what I am looking for in this thread and it is just extremely long! If it is already posted I am sorry but I just want to make sure I have all the parts I am going to need so I don't have to go to the store after starting or mess up. thank you...

"Alright, I think I am going to go ahead and order the paints and parts I need to make my screen.
Can anyone maybe link me to the cheapest/best places to order the paints as well as the screen? I am doing a 110" screen so I have to go with sintra right?

Also a link to the paint sprayer I will need?

Anyone who has done this already what is EVERYTHING I will need? From containers, measuring, etc...
I just have not done this before and do not want to forget anything.

thank you very much!

Oh, I was recommended to do silver fire v2.1 2.5. I have the benq w1100 about 11' or so from the screen. Full zoom to get 110". I just painted my room a dark grey color and the screen wall black. The ceiling is still white. It is an apartment and popcorn ceiling and I may or may not paint it. If not do you still recommend 2.5?

thanks guys for any help!
I know I asked a lot of questions but I am a complete noob and dont want to mess up!

For the sintra I found this.... http://www.artsupply.com/foamcore/sintraboard.htm seems reasonably priced? How thick do you guys use? 1mm?
edit: nevermind.. says shipping is 104 dollars.."
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post #579 of 1560 Old 06-29-2011, 02:44 PM
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@undersinjake;

get liquitex at michaels or hobby lobby... use their online and/or local 40% item coupons... occassional they have 30% off artist supplies sales.

get rustoleum pearl at menards locally... or online... ie amazon.com

get minwax and empty gallon container at hd, menards, lowes.

get 2 cheap tupperware type of quart containers for mixing the colorant.

i personally use kitchen aid spoons to measure the colorant... while others have used kitchen or farm syringes.

for finding sintra or komatex... google for plastic distributors in your local area... look for sign dealer who might tell you where he gets his sintra or he might sell you a sheet.

finally there are quite a few links in this thread to the gleem no name sprayer... or you can sometimes get the wagner DD at hd, menards, or lowes around $70.

as for which SF... stick with the suggested v2.1 2.5
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post #580 of 1560 Old 06-29-2011, 03:10 PM
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@WereWolf84;

it's always good to have a control when figuring out which SF to go with... and i tend to believe you need 25-30fL for SF 3.0.
projector central has a very conservative fL number for the 8350... and both dynamic and living room modes easily exceed that number.

if you were asking me i'd say you could easily go 3.5 to 4.5
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post #581 of 1560 Old 06-29-2011, 03:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pb_maxxx View Post

@undersinjake;

get liquitex at michaels or hobby lobby... use their online and/or local 40% item coupons... occassional they have 30% off artist supplies sales.

get rustoleum pearl at menards locally... or online... ie amazon.com

get minwax and empty gallon container at hd, menards, lowes.

get 2 cheap tupperware type of quart containers for mixing the colorant.

i personally use kitchen aid spoons to measure the colorant... while others have used kitchen or farm syringes.

for finding sintra or komatex... google for plastic distributors in your local area... look for sign dealer who might tell you where he gets his sintra or he might sell you a sheet.

finally there are quite a few links in this thread to the gleem no name sprayer... or you can sometimes get the wagner DD at hd, menards, or lowes around $70.

as for which SF... stick with the suggested v2.1 2.5

thanks so much! what thickness of sintra is recommended? And how much should the board be so I know I am not being ripped off when calling these places.
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post #582 of 1560 Old 06-30-2011, 05:39 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WereWolf84 View Post

Any differences between SF v2.1 & SF v2.1 ~ HG ? I noticed there is difference in amount of Rustoleom Metallic Accents - White Pearl, Liquitex Basics Silver, & Liquitex Basics Gold, what is this imply?


"HG" simply refers to the prescribed mix having "Higher Gain".

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post #583 of 1560 Old 06-30-2011, 03:53 PM
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So I guess 6mm sintra is the most recommended? Is that what most of you have used? What dimensions should I do for a 16x9 110" screen that will also have the black velvet boarder?
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post #584 of 1560 Old 07-02-2011, 04:59 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by undersinjake View Post

So I guess 6mm sintra is the most recommended? Is that what most of you have used? What dimensions should I do for a 16x9 110" screen that will also have the black velvet boarder?

Speaking for myself, 90% of the time I use the 6mm, for all of the reasons and considerations already outlined. However, knowing that it has "thin issues", when it's all that I can acquire, I simply apply adhesive correctly, or use any such method that assures a Flat lay.

110" size. If you use 3mm or 6mm and can simply screw it to the wall around it's edges, if you use the suggested 3.25" MDF for Screen Trim, you would have a 5' x 10' piece cut down to 100" x 60". The extra 1/4" of MDF overlaps the outside edges a tiny bit (1/4" I think... ), while the Trim itself covers the Screw holes.

Recently I have used a adhesive around the perimeter edges even when screwing the Sintra down. Then, after an appropriate drying period (...usually after all painting is done...) I remove the screws and then overlay the wrapped Trim (...Tapered edge to the inside...). The Finish nails that I drive through the MDF/Sintra into the wall do everything needed to assure the Screen stays flat and secure on the wall.

If you simply apply adhesive to the wall/Sintra...troweled out really smooth, and stick it up without Screws, then you would have the Sintra cut to 54" x 96 and butt up the inside tapered edge of the wrapped trim against the outside edge of the Sintra.

When using the 1/4" (6mm) type in such a manner, I usually reverse the trim so the Tapered edge is on the outside, and the square edge is butted.

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post #585 of 1560 Old 07-04-2011, 09:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post

Speaking for myself, 90% of the time I use the 6mm, for all of the reasons and considerations already outlined. However, knowing that it has "thin issues", when it's all that I can acquire, I simply apply adhesive correctly, or use any such method that assures a Flat lay.

110" size. If you use 3mm or 6mm and can simply screw it to the wall around it's edges, if you use the suggested 3.25" MDF for Screen Trim, you would have a 5' x 10' piece cut down to 100" x 60". The extra 1/4" of MDF overlaps the outside edges a tiny bit (1/4" I think... ), while the Trim itself covers the Screw holes.

Recently I have used a adhesive around the perimeter edges even when screwing the Sintra down. Then, after an appropriate drying period (...usually after all painting is done...) I remove the screws and then overlay the wrapped Trim (...Tapered edge to the inside...). The Finish nails that I drive through the MDF/Sintra into the wall do everything needed to assure the Screen stays flat and secure on the wall.

If you simply apply adhesive to the wall/Sintra...troweled out really smooth, and stick it up without Screws, then you would have the Sintra cut to 54" x 96 and butt up the inside tapered edge of the wrapped trim against the outside edge of the Sintra.

When using the 1/4" (6mm) type in such a manner, I usually reverse the trim so the Tapered edge is on the outside, and the square edge is butted.

cool... i think just screwing it in might be easiest for now so I would get 100 x 60 and the black boarder would be on the sintra? So I won't have to build a wood frame?
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post #586 of 1560 Old 07-04-2011, 10:31 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by undersinjake View Post

cool... i think just screwing it in might be easiest for now so I would get 100 x 60 and the black boarder would be on the sintra? So I won't have to build a wood frame?

We have a Winner here, Folks!

The Wall is your Frame, the Sintra your Screen, and the "Overlaid" Black Velvet Wrapped MDF Trim your Screen's Boarder that covers the screws placed 1" in from the edges.

Next to just painting the Wall and applying Trim directly to the Wall, it doesn't get simpler than that.

Just remember your inside measurements for the Trim pieces are 85" x 48". Miter the corners from those inside measurements. And...if your wall is Flat....but just roughly textured, the 3mm Sintra wil work just fine pinioned to the Wall.

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post #587 of 1560 Old 07-09-2011, 02:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hyp3rlink View Post
Will Sintra 3mm work as well as 6 mm or does it have to be thicker? Also, can it rolled so that I can pick it in my car? Otherwise I'll have to rent a U-Haul to bring it in.
I bought the 3mm and rented a U Haul to keep it flat. In hidsight it totally would have rolled up loosely / nicely and not affected the material any.

If i were to do it over again i probably would have purchased the 6mm just to avoid my own paranoia about the screen being *completely* flat. But the 3mm is working just fine, it's up, painted, and I love it.

After about a month now it still hotspots slightly on the projector's blue welcome screen or other large solid fills, but during movie sequences it's not noticeable. Now I just have to treat the surrounding walls and ceiling color properly to get the right environment, but thats anothe rissuer all together.

Also, I left enough extra border around the screen to allow for the screws as many others have done - but i only screwed in the top because i didn't want any bulges. But to keep things flush with the black trim, i routed out a 3mm notch on each trim piece so that it would overlap that extra sintra and essentially hold it down. Maybe more work and coul have been done with an easier method, but it was fun nonetheless.
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post #588 of 1560 Old 07-14-2011, 08:46 AM
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Should I use silverfire mix for moderate ambient light and an epson 1080ub(1600 lumen, 50k:1 contrast)? Screen will be BOC 112" diagonal.

If so, what version?
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post #589 of 1560 Old 07-15-2011, 01:08 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bassco View Post

Should I use silverfire mix for moderate ambient light and an epson 1080ub(1600 lumen, 50k:1 contrast)? Screen will be BOC 112" diagonal.

If so, what version?

Yes. SF v.2.1 2.0

Prime the BOC first. Place the PJ as close as possible (...within 10-15% of minimum throw...)

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post #590 of 1560 Old 07-15-2011, 02:12 PM
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I found some sintra board in town that I can get in the size I need, but it's black not white. Is that going to cause an issue since I'll be painting over it?
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post #591 of 1560 Old 07-15-2011, 04:02 PM - Thread Starter
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I found some sintra board in town that I can get in the size I need, but it's black not white. Is that going to cause an issue since I'll be painting over it?
Not since you can spray (...or Roll...) prime it with a good white Primer. If Spraying, keep the Priming over successive dusted layers until the sheet is absolutely uniformly "white".

With the Black Sintra, that's pretty easy to ascertain.

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post #592 of 1560 Old 07-16-2011, 08:53 AM
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Thanks MM. What about laminate? Have people had good success spraying on a piece of laminate with silver fire? Any screen shots out there?
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post #593 of 1560 Old 07-17-2011, 12:39 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jgarth22 View Post

Thanks MM. What about laminate? Have people had good success spraying on a piece of laminate with silver fire? Any screen shots out there?

Certainly people have chosen to paint on Laminate, (...but that really ticks off the "Hang -n- Shoot" crowd...) when they wanted a higher performance surface.

But I'd strongly suggest the 6mm Sintra over Laminate for almost any circumstance excepting that such material was not available.

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post #594 of 1560 Old 07-17-2011, 03:33 PM
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Quote:
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Certainly people have chosen to paint on Laminate, (...but that really ticks off the "Hang -n- Shoot" crowd...) when they wanted a higher performance surface.

But I'd strongly suggest the 6mm Sintra over Laminate for almost any circumstance excepting that such material was not available.

how durable is sintra? When I think of foam, I think of the foam insulation. I haven't actually gotten my hands on it yet, and won't know a cost until Monday so I'm just trying to figure all this out.
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post #595 of 1560 Old 07-18-2011, 04:55 AM
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I bought all the paint that I'm going to need to mix the Silver Fire 2 mix. However, I'm not sure if I got the right kind of Silver Metallic and Gold Metallic. The tubes just say "Silver" and "Gold." The store clerk at Michael's said that this was the only type of Silver and Gold that Liquitex sold so it must be the right paint.

What do you guys think? Here are a few images.



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post #596 of 1560 Old 07-18-2011, 05:13 AM - Thread Starter
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That's the right stuff

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post #597 of 1560 Old 08-02-2011, 06:13 AM
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The Delta Ceramcoat Pearl #02601 is discontinued at Michaels. Where would I be able to find some? Any alternatives?
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post #598 of 1560 Old 08-02-2011, 09:00 AM
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Here's a source for 2 ounce bottles. You have to order in multiples of 6, so you'd have to buy 18 @ $1.59 each:
http://www.createforless.com/Delta+C.../pid10022.aspx

Amazon has 7 8 ounce bottles left @ $4.87 each:
http://www.amazon.com/Ceramcoat-Acry...2300046&sr=1-1
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post #599 of 1560 Old 08-17-2011, 04:02 AM
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hey all
first of all i want to thank all especially mm and p maxx for there expertise...i have been a long time watcher on avs ....
I have just upgraded to a HC4000 and am a little dissapointed in black levels and want to make a screen with silverfire....
I am using a cheap 1.2 gain pulldown 120" screen cieling mounted 4 meters(13ish feet) away..from what i can work out this is 19 fl...
i would love to go bigger and will paint up something i can hang under the pull down...
from the research i have done it seems V2 2-3 would be ideal..
I am from australia and most of the paints are available here,but i need a substiute for behr upw flat #1850,as we dont have that here...i get that it is a very white flat paint but am unsure if i just should guess and substitute something for it?or if it is vital for the mix...any help is appreciated..i am looking forward to making my own screen between 130 - 140 inches 16:9

ps: 90% light controlled and mostly watch at night....80% movies in HD,20 sport in SD

cheers mark
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post #600 of 1560 Old 08-17-2011, 05:44 AM - Thread Starter
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maark25,

The HC4000 shooting onto 1.0 gain 130" diagonal will only produce 12 foot lamberts, which is just barely adequate for achieving a reasonably dynamic image under darkened room conditions.

.....and that is with you mounting it at the closest possible throw distance 140"? fergitabowdit.

Under your circumstances, SF v2.1 2.0 is the darkest variety I can suggest. With that and it's 1.2 gain you'll get 16 fls @ 130" but you'll drop down to 13 fls at 140"...which again could suffice under a very dark room condition.

I wish I could catch more of these Folks who are buying into the HC4000 beforehand. It's simply not robust enough to handle the screen sizes people seem to be demanding as of late.

BTW, Dulux makes a excellent "Ultimate White" you might find locally. However any good White will do. Preferred though would be to use the latest v.2.1 choice, an Artist quality Titanium White such has found under the Liquitex label.

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