The Official Silver Fire V.2 Thread. - Page 22 - AVS Forum
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post #631 of 1562 Old 02-03-2012, 02:47 PM
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MM. Do you still reccomend the SF v2.5 for an Epson 8100?
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post #632 of 1562 Old 02-04-2012, 04:43 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smokarz View Post

MM. Do you still recommend the SF v2.5 for an Epson 8100?

If the Throw distance is on the shorter end, and/or the screen size at 120" diagonal or less, a 2.5 or 3.0 would be best. The higher number can even more readily be considered if the Throw & Screen size is optimized (...110" Diag. or less, at 10% more than minimum Throw...)

The 8100 is itself a fine PJ. Much ado has been mentioned about the Bulbs, as well as fading of the Organic Panels. However, IMO both are more elated to overheating issues than anything else, as a great many end users were taking advantage of the considerable lens shift and mounting the PJs "very" close to ceilings, or on shelves, with too little clearance.

Speaking for "ONLY" myself, out of about a dozen 8100s installed, I never had a premature Bulb failure "OR" ever saw a trace of Panel degradation. I'd say the oldest installation of the bunch dates back to Nov. '09, and not a one of the Folks have called me for squat. Considering they know they have 5 years Free Service, if they needed to call....they would.

Short answer....for the price you mentioned, that PJ could give you a case of the Measles and still be a ridiculous bargain.

To quote James T. Kirk;
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post #633 of 1562 Old 02-04-2012, 06:08 AM
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thanks MM.

the screen will be less than 100" since I will make a 16:9 out of the 4x8 sintra sheet, leaving 4-6 inches for trim.

the projector will be ceiling mounted around 12-14'ft.
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post #634 of 1562 Old 02-04-2012, 10:20 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smokarz View Post

thanks MM.

the screen will be less than 100" since I will make a 16:9 out of the 4x8 sintra sheet, leaving 4-6 inches for trim.

the projector will be ceiling mounted around 12-14'ft.

Either PJ @ 12' ;

SF v2.5 4.0

Final answer. Now go away. Get'ter dine. Stop asking redundant questions!




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post #635 of 1562 Old 02-04-2012, 01:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post

Either PJ @ 12' ;

SF v2.5 4.0

Final answer. Now go away. Get'ter dine. Stop asking redundant questions!





yes sir! you got it.

now that reminds me, i need to go make a sandwich. lol
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post #636 of 1562 Old 02-06-2012, 06:20 AM
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28 oz. Rustoleum White Pearl http://www.amazon.com/Rust-Oleum-Met...ref=pd_cp_hi_0


that link took me to a 32oz bottle. is it ok to get the 32oz?
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post #637 of 1562 Old 02-06-2012, 07:12 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smokarz View Post

28 oz. Rustoleum White Pearl http://www.amazon.com/Rust-Oleum-Met...ref=pd_cp_hi_0


that link took me to a 32oz bottle. is it ok to get the 32oz?

That's the only way it comes.

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post #638 of 1562 Old 02-06-2012, 08:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post

That's the only way it comes.

thanks MM.

browse through the thread looking for some build info, but couldn't find much.

i don't have the option to glue the sintra to wall (or paint the wall), so i need to hang it.

what is everyone doing for trim? build a frame around the sintra?
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post #639 of 1562 Old 03-06-2012, 08:35 AM
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Anybody use a scale to weigh color components? I can borrow a lab scale from my work, and seems a little bit easier than rinsing everything off with water.
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post #640 of 1562 Old 03-06-2012, 08:38 AM - Thread Starter
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A accurate scale works great for getting an exactly measured amount...but even better if you 2 x or 3 x the amounts.

Just remember....the measured "weight" includes whatever is sticking to the container you use, so rinsing with some of the precribed water is still required.

To quote James T. Kirk;
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post #641 of 1562 Old 03-08-2012, 04:36 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WereWolf84 View Post

Hi PB & MM,

which SF V2.5 are you guys recommend for a 106" screen size projected by Panasonic AR100? pj will be positioned on a cabinet 11.5 ft from the screen

which one is ideal (plasma-like image) between SF V2.5 5.0 & SF V2.5 6.0? How many dusters & coats needed?

My own choice would be a 4.0 That's plenty dark enough to augment contrast and still deliver stunningly bright imagery.

3 initial Dusters (3' per sec), 1 normal coat (2' per sec) a very light sweep sanding using a large Fine / Medium Grit Sponge, and a final Normal Coat.

It's better to run the Panny on Low Lamp as it's best Contrast is available in that mode. You'll still have more than enough lumens to drive into a 4.0 in ambient light, and in the dark, it'll be way beyond "Plasma".

I reserve 5.0 and 6.0+ applications for 3500+ lumen beasties that will always be on Normal Lamp.

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post #642 of 1562 Old 03-08-2012, 05:20 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WereWolf84 View Post

Thanks MM really appreciates your advise & guidance! btw, the screen is made of fiberglass/vinyl which has some texture on the surface, is it suppose to look smooth after applying 3 dusters & 2 coats?

The paint will help some, but the very fact that the coatings are applied so thinly means that the depth of coverage isn't like you were rolling paint on.

You could Roll in some non-thinned Kilz-2, and then lightly sand it to create a 50%+ smoother surface to spray on. Yeah...it's more work...but it will greatly improve upon whatever texture issues you have.

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post #643 of 1562 Old 03-09-2012, 06:43 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WereWolf84 View Post

Hi MM, forgot to mention that the screen would be a manufacture retractable screen, would there be any crackles on this retractable screen?

No...the Poly/Acrylic components are very thin, and very flexible. However... accepted practice calls for you to leave the Screen down for at least 3-4 days under decent drying conditions to allow the paint to cure/gas-out.

Oh yeah...if you decide to Prime first, use Glidden Gripper Primer instead of Kilz-2

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post #644 of 1562 Old 03-10-2012, 09:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post


I reserve 5.0 and 6.0+ applications for 3500+ lumen beasties that will always be on Normal Lamp.

I have an Epson 705HD. Back with the original SF screen, you recommended a 5.0 screen. I generally use eco lamp to save life (which drops lumens down to about 1280), and the lamp seems plenty bright enough even still, so what would you recommend now that I'm doing a v2.5 mix? It will go on a 98" screen around 10 feet away, small to moderate amount of ambient light.
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post #645 of 1562 Old 03-11-2012, 03:50 PM
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Hey there,

I finally got all the components to do a SF 2.5 but am looking for help on which version I need. I have an Epson 8350, it's currently ~21ft from the wall and throwing a 150" image. Seems like a far distance, but that can not be adjusted. I can reduce the image size.

This is a family room, there is ambient light. I have sun screens on all the windows. I don't use the projector that much and I rarely use it before sunset.

I'm projecting onto a wall that I sanded smooth and did a few coats of flat white, ready to hopefully step it up a bit.

Any suggestions appreciated.
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post #646 of 1562 Old 03-11-2012, 04:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AZ HT View Post

Hey there,

I finally got all the components to do a SF 2.5 but am looking for help on which version I need. I have an Epson 8350, it's currently ~21ft from the wall and throwing a 150" image. Seems like a far distance, but that can not be adjusted. I can reduce the image size.

This is a family room, there is ambient light. I have sun screens on all the windows. I don't use the projector that much and I rarely use it before sunset.

I'm projecting onto a wall that I sanded smooth and did a few coats of flat white, ready to hopefully step it up a bit.

Any suggestions appreciated.

132" diagonal w/SF 2.5 2.0 is as big & dark as you can go in "controlled" lighting (that creates ambient light") In complete darkness, you could easily push 150"

Bear in mind my suggestions are based on what I would consider acceptable performance. If it was me...and I wanted 150" of sublime image, nothing would stop me from locating the PJ optimally. Of course I also install the critters so again, what I do isn't always the "norm".

Just ask anybody on here.

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post #647 of 1562 Old 03-13-2012, 10:59 AM
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Well, I am back. Almost a yr later with no painted screen yet. I see there have been 2 new updates. So, I would like to get an update to my setup

Below link brings you to my orig posted mix question and setup
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...3#post20536386

Also, I need to do a family members setup. He has a benq w6000 set back 19' from wall and projecting a 120" image. He is light controlled also.

And just to confirm there is no way for either to be the maxmudd rollable version?

For some reason I can't wrap my head around the colorant and version to make ounces. Does the base colorant equal 1 ounce when mixed?

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post #648 of 1562 Old 03-13-2012, 11:48 AM - Thread Starter
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pyro,

The Base is a ultra light silvery pearl-ish White

The Colorant is a almost Black looking "Gray". When one makes up a batch of Colorant as directed, he winds up with approx 4.5 ounces of total mixed Colorant (including the specified Water)

Each "ounce", or percentage of an ounce of Colorant darkens the Base respectfully more and more.

You both would do best with a 3.0 level of Colorant.

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post #649 of 1562 Old 03-13-2012, 01:13 PM
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I"m confused which mix to go with they both say say they are Silver Fire V 2.5 they are at the beggining of both SF threads and the original SF thread has a more recent date on the formula.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post

OK Everyone,

In cooperation and collusion with PB-Maxx, here is the latest version of Silver Fire that substitutes the increasingly hard to find/acquire Liquitex Matt Basics with more commonly found paints.

Also, due to recent quality control issues with the Delta Ceramcoat Silver Metallic, a change has been made to that "Reflective Base" ingredient as well.

There are a lot of Members coming down to the wire before the Super Bowl who still do not have some of the Matt Basics in hand, so this roll-out is intended to bring relief to those individuals, and all else who follow.

Primary credit goes to PB-Maxx for these changes, as he is ever diligent in trying to keep both Paint Component quality and availability in line with Silver Fire's performance potential.

Silver Fire v2.5 (...or visit here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=752415 )

(Reflective Base Components) Links are to the least expensive sources available

28 oz. Rustoleum White Pearl http://www.amazon.com/Rust-Oleum-Met...ref=pd_cp_hi_0
16 oz. Liquitex Basics - Silver Metallic http://www.misterart.com/painting/ac...GoogleProducts
10 oz. Behr Interior UPW Flat #1850 (or Exterior #4050)
3 oz. Liquitex Basics - Gold Metallic http://www.misterart.com/painting/ac...dium=datafeed&


(Viscosity Components)

24 oz. Minwax Polycrylic - Satin Finish
18 - 24 oz. Distilled or Filtered water**


(Color Components) ie: "Colorant"

Color Components are found at: http://www.misterart.com/painting/ac...dium=datafeed&

60ml - filtered/distilled water for rinsing color components from utensils
30ml - Liquitex Basics - Napthol Crimson Red
15ml - Liquitex Basics - Phthalocyanine Green
10ml - Liquitex Basics - UltraMarine Blue
5ml - Liquitex Basics - Cadmium Yellow - Deep Hue

The numerical equivalent of the shade of Gray (SF v2 1.0/1.5/2.0/2.5/3.0/4.0/5.0 on to ad nausea-um ) is equal to the amount "IN OUNCES" of Colorant added to what is a consistent and unchanging* Base combo of reflective and viscosity mixes.
* (...unless we decide to change them, of course. We'll let you know if we do.

You want a lighter Silvery Gray screen that is excellent for a dedicated Theater yet still assists in improving perceived Contrast? Use 1 to 1.5 "OUNCES" of SF Colorant added to the reflective and viscosity Bases.

A Darker Gray for combating Ambient Light? Add 3.0 "OUNCES" That would make the SF v2 Screen a "3.0 version"

Got a veritable Light Cannon and unusually high Ambient Light situation so that you need something Really Dark? Add 5 "OUNCES" of colorant for a SFv2 5.0 screen.



This Formula will also be posted on the other SF Thread for reference, but please post all commentary and project results on this Thread.

Is this the correct formula for Silver Fire V 2.5? if you look at the other SF thread it calls for more Silver I bought exactly 16 ounces and the other thread calls for 20-24 ounces depending on how dark of version your trying to mix.

Here is the other Formula:

[quote=MississippiMan;19930419]
*Last and Final update/revision - 11/11/2011

SILVER FIRE V2.5

(Color Components)
100ml - filtered/distilled water for rinsing color components from utensils
50ml - Liquitex Basics - Napthol Crimson Red
25ml - Liquitex Basics - Phthalocyanine Green
16ml - Liquitex Basics - UltraMarine Blue
9ml - Liquitex Basics - Cadmium Yellow - Deep Hue

(Viscosity Components)
16 oz. Minwax Polycrylic - Satin Finish
24 - 36 oz. Distilled or Filtered water*

(Reflective Base Components)*
Silver Fire v2.5 hue (in ounces - oz) 1.0 2.0 3.0 4.0 5.0
Rustoleum Metallic Accents - White Pearl* 20 21 22 23 24
Liquitex Basics Silver 20 21 22 23 24
Behr 1850 UPW Flat 10 10 10 10 10
Liquitex Basics Gold 1.50 1.75 2.00 2.25 2.50

* Rustoleum Metallic Accents - White Pearl is currently found only at Menards or online.

*the 'base' & 'viscosity' components are to mixed separately from the 'colorant' components.

*Graco electric sprayer starts with 24oz. of water mininum. Wagner DD - 24oz minimum. Wagner CS - 36oz minimum.


-------------------------


[quote=MississippiMan;19930419]

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post #650 of 1562 Old 03-13-2012, 02:57 PM
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Toksook Bay, I noticed the same thing and had the same question. They are not just a little different, either. Every component is vastly different. Maybe we're overlooking something? I did the opposite, I bought 24 oz of Silver, because pretty much every version listed in the other thread called for over 20 oz. Both threads are very active.
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post #651 of 1562 Old 03-13-2012, 02:58 PM
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Toksook Bay;

the original silver fire thread... with the graduated silver/pearl/gold amounts is the lastest and correct version.
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post #652 of 1562 Old 03-13-2012, 04:59 PM
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Ok, off to buy more silver. Everything else is ready have spray gun, sintra ect. Looking to do a 107" x 60" screen. in about a 3.0 mix for some AL watching. I do think you should change the Silver Fire v 2.5 thread to update the list because that is the thread I used to order the ingredients. thinking the v2.5 thread should have the latest mix?

I might have to wait and order online since I have limited suppliers up here in Alaska.

Just a thought, but still thankful for all your efforts and I will update and my DIY screen after I spray it.

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post #653 of 1562 Old 03-13-2012, 07:01 PM
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you'll have to appeal to mm's better half...thats his thread...
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post #654 of 1562 Old 03-14-2012, 06:12 AM
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I got my Sintra last weekend and rustoleum came from Amazon yesterday. Can I get recommendation for a Epson 8350 with a 16' throw in a dark basement? I'm debating between 2.0 and 3.0
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post #655 of 1562 Old 03-14-2012, 06:22 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swolfebme View Post

i got my sintra last weekend and rustoleum came from amazon yesterday. Can i get recommendation for a epson 8350 with a 16' throw in a dark basement? I'm debating between 2.0 and 3.0


2.0

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post #656 of 1562 Old 03-14-2012, 09:15 AM
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Still unclear on this. For the colorant at v3.0 I would need to multiple by 3 on each measurement, correct
60ml - filtered/distilled water for rinsing color components from utensils 180ml
30ml - Liquitex Basics - Napthol Crimson Red 90ml

15ml - Liquitex Basics - Phthalocyanine Green 45ml

10ml - Liquitex Basics - UltraMarine Blue 30ml

5ml - Liquitex Basics - Cadmium Yellow - Deep Hue 15ml

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post #657 of 1562 Old 03-14-2012, 10:55 AM - Thread Starter
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Pyro,

No. How did you supposition that?

SF-2.5 3.0 means 3 ounces of colorant is added to the Reflective / Viscosity Bases.

If you mix up the Colorant as listed, you'll wind up wth just over 4 ounces of Colorant. Uze 3 ounces.

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post #658 of 1562 Old 03-14-2012, 11:13 AM
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MM, got it, thanks

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post #659 of 1562 Old 03-19-2012, 07:43 AM
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quick question as the formula changed from the Liquitex Basics Silver to Silver Metallic and same with the gold.

What happens if the non metallic silver and gold is used? what characteristics are changing?

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post #660 of 1562 Old 03-19-2012, 10:05 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pyro383 View Post

quick question as the formula changed from the Liquitex Basics Silver to Silver Metallic and same with the gold.

What happens if the non metallic silver and gold is used? what characteristics are changing?


Not sure at all I follow....,

Any Silver, Pearl, or Gold used in the Reflective base that we suggest has metallic content.

Without such, gain will be lost that is there to keep the various shades of Gray from dipping down below 1.0

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