The Official Silver Fire V.2 Thread. - Page 23 - AVS Forum
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post #661 of 1525 Old 03-19-2012, 06:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pyro383 View Post

quick question as the formula changed from the Liquitex Basics Silver to Silver Metallic and same with the gold.

What happens if the non metallic silver and gold is used? what characteristics are changing?

It is the same thing,metallic is just not on the liqutex label any longer, both silver and gold are correct (I had the same question)
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post #662 of 1525 Old 03-21-2012, 09:58 PM
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I have some of the Behr paint from about 2 years ago from when I did my ceiling. It is still most of the way full, but it has been opened. Since it is a bit older, do you think there would be any problem in using it for this screen? I can add a little extra water to thin it out, and I will filter it just incase there is any dried paint that might find its way into the mix. It's not "horribly" expensive to get a small can, but if I already have something that will work, I'd rather use it if I can. I'd like to paint this weekend if I could get your recommendation on which mix to use. Here are the parameters again, just incase:

Epson 705HD on eco mode lamp (1280 lumens) projected onto Thrifty White hard board from ~10 feet away onto the 96" screen. There will be moderate but controlled lighting with some gaming as well as movies.
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post #663 of 1525 Old 03-22-2012, 05:23 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CGRemakes View Post

I have some of the Behr paint from about 2 years ago from when I did my ceiling. It is still most of the way full, but it has been opened. Since it is a bit older, do you think there would be any problem in using it for this screen? I can add a little extra water to thin it out, and I will filter it just incase there is any dried paint that might find its way into the mix. It's not "horribly" expensive to get a small can, but if I already have something that will work, I'd rather use it if I can.

Chances are it's still very usable. Thinning/ Mixing. and Straining are all viable methods of re-stirring paint to a usable status. basically though...it's a judgmental thing. If you can see that the color and consistency is even, and the paint you have was not contaminated by rust from a degrading Lid or the rim of the can, your probably going to be good to go.

Quote:


I'd like to paint this weekend if I could get your recommendation on which mix to use. Here are the parameters again, just incase:

Epson 705HD on eco mode lamp (1280 lumens) projected onto Thrifty White hard board from ~10 feet away onto the 96" screen. There will be moderate but controlled lighting with some gaming as well as movies.

RS-MaxxMudd (standard)

To quote James T. Kirk;
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post #664 of 1525 Old 03-22-2012, 09:14 AM
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My hat's off to you guys. This sounds like it is what every DIY'er wants. I have been a member of this board for a while but had never posted. I tried years ago experimenting with pearls and metalic flake since i came from an autobody background. I ended up having to abandon that project due to other commitments. But what you have come up with seems very promising indeed.

We will be moving from our current house in 12 months and decided to redo the theater room only weeks before the move had been announced. So now i don't want to dish out on a big screen and thought about just using digital grey. Then i came across this post. I was so eager to try it and confident in what i had read that i bought enough material to build 2 screens. One for this house and one for the new bigger house . Now my question is this: My projector is 14 feet back from the screen, seating is just under the projector. Room width is 20 and depth is 24. I can control the light down to 0%. Ceiling is black and walls are a darker greenish grey. What is my best mix to go with? I guess i forgot to mention that i have a Panasonic pt-7000 projector and we do the odd 3D movie. The projector seems to have a lot more lumens than my old pt-4000 so i am hoping to get some gains for when i switch to 3D.

Thanks guys and your hard work really is appreciated.
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post #665 of 1525 Old 03-22-2012, 10:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post

RS-MaxxMudd (standard)

Sorry, forgot to mention I've already got all the supplies to do SF 2.5, just a matter of which "version" is best. Guess I shouldn't have assumed that because the question was posted under the SF mix thread that that would be implied.
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post #666 of 1525 Old 03-22-2012, 01:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CGRemakes View Post

Sorry, forgot to mention I've already got all the supplies to do SF 2.5, just a matter of which "version" is best. Guess I shouldn't have assumed that because the question was posted under the SF mix thread that that would be implied.

Well, my Bad, eh? I rushed my reply and accidentally wrote in something else on my mind.

Based on your criteria, a SF 2.0 would be the best choice. A darker shade by 2x from RS-MaxxMudd, it will have "better than" Contrast enhancement needed for ambient light conditions than RS, but also...it still being a reasonably light Silvery Gray, it will still have enough gain to keeps the Whites looking pristine.

To quote James T. Kirk;
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post #667 of 1525 Old 03-22-2012, 03:46 PM
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No worries. You're a busy man, I'm sure. Looking forward to my screen, hopefully it all turns out well.
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post #668 of 1525 Old 03-24-2012, 10:21 AM
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Has anyone done a curved screen with this application?
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post #669 of 1525 Old 03-24-2012, 11:41 AM
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Broadband_Cowboy

yes, i believe so. i'll have to see if i can find the thread. i do know that they loved the result.
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post #670 of 1525 Old 03-27-2012, 10:00 PM
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I have all the materials with me except the Sintra board. I had made my screen 3 years back by painting on the dry wall. I want to upgrade with new Silver Fire v 2 now. My screen size is 69''x120''. The biggest piece of Sintra board I have come across in Atlanta area is not fitting to this size. I may need to join two pieces together, which I am not sure whether is an option to begin with. The other option to use PBW also did not work for the same reason as their size available at HD was 4'x8' only. I am compelled to go back on drywall now. Anyone knows of any place offering Sintra which may do my job. Also, will that kind of size fit in my van to bring home? Has anyone tried joining two Sintra sheets together?
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post #671 of 1525 Old 03-27-2012, 10:31 PM
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there are very select number of sintra distributors who carry 70" x 120" sheets. you'll have to do some investigative searching.

as for joining 2 sheets together... it can be done... by epoxying the edges together... and then skimming with a sandable acrylic adhesive caulk, and finally skimming with drywall compound.

also, make sure the entire edge of the epoxy seam is backed by solid support struture.

otherwise, you're back to going with drywall or living with a max 60x120 size limitation.
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post #672 of 1525 Old 03-31-2012, 01:48 PM
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Got my mix all done. Here's a shot of what it looks like. Hopefully it's correct. Turned out to be harder to measure things accurately than I thought it would be. I'm hoping there's at least "some" fudge factor in the quantities, cause I'm sure I wasn't perfect. It's SF 2.0. Took a couple different ones to try to give the most accurate idea of the color. I don't pretend to be any kind of professional.
LL
LL
LL
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post #673 of 1525 Old 03-31-2012, 05:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pb_maxxx View Post

there are very select number of sintra distributors who carry 70" x 120" sheets. you'll have to do some investigative searching.

as for joining 2 sheets together... it can be done... by epoxying the edges together... and then skimming with a sandable acrylic adhesive caulk, and finally skimming with drywall compound.

also, make sure the entire edge of the epoxy seam is backed by solid support struture.

otherwise, you're back to going with drywall or living with a max 60x120 size limitation.

I applied silverfire 2.5 on dry wall and while the picture has enhanced, it has started making the drywall imperfections ever more magnified. I can now clearly see the unevenness of drywall very clearly...to the extent that I need to do something asap. I have projector and seats all arranged in such a way that I cannot play with pj throwing distance, which in turn means that I need to stick to the screen size. Also, I do understand that sintra cannot come in my screen spec size (7'x10'). So, options I have is either sintra sheet or PBW sheet, I will have to join them. Has anyone done this? I am even OK with little bit of joins appearing, at least that will be better than dry wall in present condition. What could be the best option to make the joins disappear, as silverfire is extremely unforgiving for the uneven surfaces to hide.
I think drywall is not a very good solution anyway as with moisture and other factors it has a tendency to become uneven in long term. Is that correct?
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post #674 of 1525 Old 03-31-2012, 06:28 PM - Thread Starter
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atl999,

As opposed to both the expense, and uncertainty of getting a perfectly seamless-appearing union between two Plastic sheets, correcting the Drywall issues and repainting is a vastly superior choice.

Unless....your wall is a complete disaster. Uneven studs, poorly done Tape joints, deep nicks, cracks, gouges....all present needs and skills few DIY'ers posses. Even then, if the Screen Real Estate is epic, overlaying and finishing Drywall is still a "most economic" choice whose final finish is at least dependent upon you/others efforts....not a "mfg".

Minor blemishes that a High Contrast paint amplifies....? You simply "erase" them, blot 'em out, smooth, prime, and paint again. Be assured, if the Framing is true, and it's simply a Texture or paint blemish issue, correction is a better solution that trying to create an ideal surface from "two" ideal surfaces.

Of course, the latter "could be done", but one way of 'doing' it requires a purposefully made, beveled edge seam that is filled and float sanded into a light skim of Drywall compound that covers the entire expanse of the Sintra sheets. Everything is sanded equally. If your gonna have to do all that....you might as well be doing it with the original Dry wall.

And...there are other inexpensive choices. Large 17 mil sheets of vinyl, 10' x 12". IMO a better substrate to start out with than BOC, and it's no more expensive "than".

DIY can take you down some very different paths. The most used applications and methods are usually the most successful. Some simply require a degree of "opt in" effort that is higher than others, but very few who have gone down such paths will dispute the worthiness of such a choice.

atl999, if you hit upon a specific choice of action "you" feel comfortable with, you can count on all the advisory help you'll need, and you're end results will be better for it.

But if your wall is basically sound, no other method I know of will get you to your goal more quickly, effectively...and most assuredly less expensively than getting the wall in shape and repainting.

If the Dry wall isn't hanging on just a few loose screws/nails, and there is no dry-rot issues, a wall coated with decent Skim Mud pre-prep / finish coat of SF will hold up longer than you'll have use for it.

Don't worry...chose this route, and you'll get the necessary help too.

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"
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post #675 of 1525 Old 03-31-2012, 09:05 PM
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Thanks MM, Let me rethink over all options.
Also, I must appreciate your and PB_maxx's contribution towards DIY screen on this forum. I have learned a lot from all the discussions here, had painted my screen and repeated successfully the same for at least another 6-7 of my friends. I had painted SF using roller about 2 years back and it was appreciated by all. I wanted to go for further improvement and ended up to a worse situation now..."if it ain't broke, don't fix it" should have been the mantra, to begin with. Nevertheless, I have to deal with the situation at hand now. I am on a vacation right now with my kids enjoying lovely weather at Destin, Florida, will be back to Atlanta in couple of days and share pictures with you to seek your opinions. Thanks again for your willingness to help me out.
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post #676 of 1525 Old 03-31-2012, 09:16 PM
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Well, got it painted. There is a slight "orange peel" effect on it. I'll see how it looks when it dries. I may do some light sanding and a few more duster coats to smooth it out a bit. It's not really noticeable, unless you get pretty close. Overall, think it looks pretty good.

UPDATE: There was still a bit of orange peel going on, so I'm doing a bit of sanding and will put a few more coats on. I'm concerned my mix might be a bit too blue/purple. It doesn't look horribly off, but maybe a slight blue tint. The sanding dust looks almost purple. Probably not a good sign. I probably have enough of the mix left to add some colors if it's not correct. I have plenty of all the colors I used to make the mix. The whole experience has been a little discouraging. I attribute it to my lack of know how, not the mix itself or anyone else. I did my best to read posts and watch videos, but it still didn't go as smoothly as I'd have liked. I consider myself pretty handy, so I probably over estimated my skills. I probably should have gone with a simpler mix that could be rolled, or at least has less room for error.

UPDATE UPDATE: Found an old post that said to add just a touch of red to take the blue tint out. Much better! Amazing how little paint it takes to completely change the color. I barely put any in, and it is noticeably darker, but more grey thankfully! I was worried I went overboard and created more of a purple tint, but I think I'm ok. Going to use the last bit of paint that I have to make the orange peel less apparent, and also make the screen more of a true grey. This has been an experience, that's for sure!
LL
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post #677 of 1525 Old 04-02-2012, 08:42 PM
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What version would you recommend for a BenQ w6000 at 14-15' throw in an open game room with semi daylight(blinds/curtains but thats it for light control)

My guess is 4.0 for best overall output and the high lumens of the w6000?


Edit: I am hoping to do 120-125" screen in my 18x15 room with 10' ceiling but still have some calculating to do
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post #678 of 1525 Old 04-03-2012, 12:54 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bjamm View Post

What version would you recommend for a BenQ w6000 at 14-15' throw in an open game room with semi daylight(blinds/curtains but thats it for light control)

My guess is 4.0 for best overall output and the high lumens of the w6000?


Edit: I am hoping to do 120-125" screen in my 18x15 room with 10' ceiling but still have some calculating to do

120" @ 14' -10" seems very doable with a SF v2.5 3.0

I'd start out at that shade of Gray and let the w6000's DLP-oriented Contrast take up the slack.

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post #679 of 1525 Old 04-03-2012, 12:13 PM
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I am back and have taken some photographs of my screen. I understand that if I need to go drywall route, I will need to skim coat and sand and then apply primer before going for SF. Any more comments or steps to improve will be appreciated.
[IMG] [/IMG]
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post #680 of 1525 Old 04-03-2012, 02:23 PM
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yeah... you're gonna have to work on those seams...
i can clearly see the raised seam going horizontally across the bottom of the screen...
and i can see the vertical indent on the right side of the screen.

you may also consider lowering the gain ever so slightly about 1oz of 1850 per quart of remaining mix... so any imperfections are not so greatly magnified under projected light.
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post #681 of 1525 Old 04-03-2012, 03:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pb_maxxx View Post

yeah... you're gonna have to work on those seams...
i can clearly see the raised seam going horizontally across the bottom of the screen...
and i can see the vertical indent on the right side of the screen.

you may also consider lowering the gain ever so slightly about 1oz of 1850 per quart of remaining mix... so any imperfections are not so greatly magnified under projected light.

So, just to let you know, I had finished all the SF mix. I am going to re-do whole thing from beginning. So, you mean I should go for SF 3.0 this time? Here are my action plan:
1. Apply skim coat and sand to try to achieve a level 5 finish or closer.
2. Apply a primer (which one?).
3. Start putting SF (2.0 or 3.0 ?)

Let me know if I am on the right track.
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post #682 of 1525 Old 04-03-2012, 10:56 PM
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I've finished up my last coats. I have just about 8oz left. I'd like to do just 1 more duster coat to fix a few imperfections where some dust landed on the wet screen. I've found each duster takes just about 8oz using the "no name" sprayer. I'm worried, however, that with it being the last 8oz that it might run out before I finish. It doesn't look "horrible", so if there's a risk of either running out, or requiring me to put the coat on quicker and less even to stretch it out and make it look worse, I will just leave it as is. Any thoughts? Very impressed with the paint results, though it certainly was not easy.
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post #683 of 1525 Old 04-04-2012, 06:41 PM - Thread Starter
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CGRemakes,

Add 2 oz more Water, and "Dust" away. Overlap as much as possible and still get finished.

To quote James T. Kirk;
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post #684 of 1525 Old 04-04-2012, 06:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atl999 View Post

So, just to let you know, I had finished all the SF mix. I am going to re-do whole thing from beginning. So, you mean I should go for SF 3.0 this time? Here are my action plan:
1. Apply skim coat and sand to try to achieve a level 5 finish or closer.

Yeah Buddy!

2. Apply a primer (which one?).

Glidden Gripper Primer will cover well, and adhere better than most others.

3. Start putting SF (2.0 or 3.0 ?)

Let me know if I am on the right track.

Pull the Throttle all the way back and let'er Roll. (...er, Spray... )

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post #685 of 1525 Old 04-04-2012, 10:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post

CGRemakes,

Add 2 oz more Water, and "Dust" away. Overlap as much as possible and still get finished.

I was able to get it done. Looks much better after the final duster coat. I'm hoping it turned out correctly. That's the toughest thing about this mix is that the slightest color being off can completely throw the end result off. It isn't always easy to tell it's off until after the paint dries, then you look at it and it looks purple or blue. I've built 2 MAME machines from scratch, a dance pad and finished my entire basement, and I think getting this screen painted was probably my biggest challenge. The others may have taken longer, but I felt the most clueless on this one. I think it will be worth it, though. Thanks for your help and your time to help us DIYers. I thought the image looked pretty good on just a plain ol' sheet of Thrifty hardboard, but there is already a huge improvement even without the paint being cured.
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post #686 of 1525 Old 04-04-2012, 10:53 PM
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Thanks for the advice on the color.

What is recommended for screens larger than 4x8 to paint on? Im needing to get something at 60x105" and will start looking locally here in Dallas this weekend. Not sure where to search for Sintra board locally..

Also for people having any hard time finding the paint you can get it here from Amazon, along with two extra colors of black and white.

http://www.amazon.com/Liquitex-Assor.../dp/B000HF6YX0

Set contains 6 BASICS colors in 4 oz. tubes. Contains Cadmium Yellow Medium Hue, Mars Black, Phthalo Green (blue shade), Ultramarine Blue, Naphthol Crimson and Titanium White.

However, it does come with the wrong color of yellow, as it comes with the Medium Hue instead of the dark hue, but figured it might help some people then just have to find the yellow to match.
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post #687 of 1525 Old 04-05-2012, 05:47 AM
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Hey, just wondering what you guys would recommend for a Panasonic PT-ae7000 in a completely black room? The projector and seating are both 14 feet from the screen. Thanks.
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post #688 of 1525 Old 04-05-2012, 09:17 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Broadband_Cowboy View Post

Hey, just wondering what you guys would recommend for a Panasonic PT-ae7000 in a completely black room? The projector and seating are both 14 feet from the screen. Thanks.

Having a completely blacked out room is always an advantage.


Silver Fire v2.5 2.0 for the best possible contrast boosting. Doing such will also allow you to use the maximum amount of available Lumens, and make the use of additional Black boosting properties

Kinda missing some important info though....such as how big a screen your looking for.

Based on a 1.2 Gain Mix and a 60" x 107" (122"er) @ 14', you'd get 19 Foot Lamberts.

If you'd like to try a somewhat simpler Mix that still has considerable Gain, (1.4) and also a degree of Contrast boosting, you could go with RS-MaxxMudd LL. Although spraying the RS-MM LL is always the preferred method, a advantage of the RS-MM LL is that it can be rolled on.

To quote James T. Kirk;
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post #689 of 1525 Old 04-06-2012, 11:35 AM
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Ok, I've been reading these forums for weeks now and have been piecing together my screen little by little along the way. At this point I have my screen (Sintra) mounted and up on the wall.

I'm working with a screen in my living room that gets a LOT of light during the day, but can be pretty light controlled after the sun goes down. In the dark the unpainted Sintra looks pretty amazing, except for the noticeable hotspot in the middle. In the daylight the image is obviously washed out and the hotspot is much more noticeable. I have all of my paints in, my sprayer ("no-name HVLP 2900) and am ready to start mixing.

In a new thread that I had started (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1402171), MM had suggested that SF 5.0 could be my best bet for my ample ambient light during the day. My question is, given how bright my projector is (85 fL according to the projector calculator on a 1.0 gain screen) is 5.0 going to be sufficient? Should I maybe consider going darker or even adding a few extra oz. of the UPW to the base to tone down the sheen?

Below is a shot of how bright the glare is off the screen during the day to give you an idea of what I'm working with.

As always, your help is much appreciated.

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post #690 of 1525 Old 04-06-2012, 09:22 PM - Thread Starter
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SF v2.5 5.0 is sufficiently dark enough for your use. And besides, if any "toning down" was to be considered, it would be by reducing the percentage of Metallic Content. But the actuality of it all is that as SF goes darker, gain goes down unless "additional" reflectivity is added. That in turn is what adds graininess and overt "directionality" (ie: Retro Reflectivity / loss of viewing Cone)

The amount of metallics in a 5.0 level Mix is specifically determined to be ideal for that shade of Gray, keeping the surface's gain level up around 1.0 and it's expected that the PJ used would have to have sufficient Lumen output to drive into that Gray.

What you do want is a dark enough gray to resist Ambient light's deleterious effects, but still have the Screen's Gain be as close to 1.0 as possible. That's because with any real degree less Gain than 0.9, then the image will start to look decidedly dull. You gotta understand, it's always easier and more effective to "tone down" glare by reducing Lumen output (Low lamp mode-ND Filters), than it is by attenuating the amount of "Projected" light that a surface can reflect by reducing surface gain by too great an extent. That latter just isn't the way to go.

It's a balancing act all the way. Barring a fight against "Directed Sunlight" across the Screen's surface, what needs to be accomplished is to have a Dark enough surface that any light that is weaker than the projected light, (...as measured in Foot Candles per sq. inch of ambient light vs. Lumens of Directed Projected Lumens...) is simply overcome because it cannot match/overcome the energy already present on the Screen's surface.

That of course is always a case reliant on "content", because if a PJ is projecting "Black", that projected "black" is going to slide down the energy scale, and at some point the balance will shift. That is where the "Blackness' of the Screen comes in....because the more the balance" favors the PJ / Screen combo, the lessor effect the ambient light induced degradation of Black levels will appear to be..


The balance struck between the darkness of the Gray, the amount of Lumens available, and gain of the Screen will always determine image quality during "worst case" situations.

You have:

1. A Smallish Screen size.

2. The ability to optimally place the PJ to maximize Lumen output.

3. A potentially N6.0 Dark Gray with approx.a .9 - 1.0 gain surface

4. A Ultra Bright Pj, whose output can be / is entirely adjustable.


I'd say your all set!

But lets say you'd rather try the darkest possible surface you though you could manage. Well, conventional wisdom backed with experience would dictate a 6.0 surface. That's the limit I'd recommend and feel confident in knowing you'd get a good, "color vibrant" and punchy image.

We've gone to 8.0 in some of our examples, but either one of two things had to happen. Either the amount of metallic s had to be increased proportionately, introducing excessive artifacts and "spark-lies', or the PJ's output had to be increased almost by 100% over a 6.0 to compensate.

The latter is going against almost any practicality of reasoning unless a truly commercial venture is under consideration.

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"
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