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post #691 of 1587 Old 04-07-2012, 02:54 AM
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Hi I've been reading these forums for a few months now after I got my projector Epson 8350. I'm still not sure which SF V2.5 to use. I will be spraying on a 4x8 komatex board and the projector will be 13ft away. There is moderate light that's primarily coming from the skylight. The two windows are actually shaded by the trees so there's no sunlight coming through those windows into the room. I plan to block the skylight when watching which should drop the room between low and moderate lighting.

I had purchase the no name sprayer, but I don't quite understand what you guys mean about spraying duster coats and full coats. Are duster coats sprayed with less volume or do I just move the sprayer faster from side to side? How many coats does komatex require and how long are the drying periods in between?

Lastly, any ideas on how to setup the komatex for spraying? I'd like to set it up off the ground, but I don't have an easel that large. Do you think putting two chairs on the bottom corners and clamping it is good enough? What other easy makeshift stands do people try? Thanks for your help.
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post #692 of 1587 Old 04-07-2012, 01:25 PM - Thread Starter
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Is the Screen to be mounted directly onto the wall, either permanently or semi-so?

What actual size "diagonal screen" do you intend to project onto. 4' x 8' doesn't correlate to any known format. Below are the exact sizes you can get from that size Komatex.

98" Diagonal @ 16:9 85" x 48"

103" Diagonal @ 2.35:1 95" x 40"

The Screen "MUST" be placed flat against a surface, and all edges should lay flat against a supportive backing. You cannot effectively paint out past/off the edges and maintain a even lay-down of paint along an edge if the paint spray is swirling off the drop-off edge.

There are solutions...depending on where your limited in paint. Be advised that a screen that small can get each coat applied in well under 60 seconds. Placing the Screen where it's going to stay, and masking the surrounding wall surface around the edges (...and any other sensitive surfaces in the room...) is by far the best possible route to take.

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post #693 of 1587 Old 04-07-2012, 04:10 PM
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I can mount it directly to the wall. Since I plan to do 48"x85" for a 98" diagonal, can I just screw in the sides and not have screws on the top or bottom of the screen since I'm painting up to them? I know one side can easily hit a stud but the other side's studs doesn't seem to fall in my excess area. Are there drywall screws that I can use to hold it in or will I need wall anchors which will be a bigger PITA lining it up?

How many coats are recommended on komatex and which SF V2.5 should I use 3.0 or 4.0? Thanks.
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post #694 of 1587 Old 04-07-2012, 07:19 PM
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Thank you, I'm feeling good about the 5.0 mix. I had not even considered using a ND filter to cut down on the brightness. After painted and cured if i'm still noticing hot spotting I'll play with the idea of using an ND2 or 4 filter.

My research has now moved onto the spraying aspect of this venture. I've read a lot and feel pretty confident with the speed and distance for the coats. I ran across a thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...1#post20467571) where the sprayer reported that SF produced a noticeable texture. This is something that I want to minimize as much as possible. What I'm loving about the unpainted Sintra surface, is the perfectly flat surface that it provides compared to the slightly textured painted wall that I was projecting on prior to mounting it. My viewing distance is a little over 8' so any texture is very noticeable.

Do you have any words of wisdom to provide the smoothest surface while spraying? Logic, at least in my mind, dictates that heavier coats instead of numerous dusters should provide something smoother, but my experience with spraying is non-existant.
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post #695 of 1587 Old 04-08-2012, 01:01 AM
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Im making progress after this weekend.

Sanded my wall down to repaint it a darker charcoal/black color background.

Got the 120" diagonal Sintra board (actually i think it measures 122" but was going to play with the 1" on each side for screwing into wall? Still researching how to mount it to the wall..

I've got all the paint supplies except for nylon strainer, paint bucket mixer. Got the Rustoleum from Amazon, Liquitex stuff from Michaels (They have on buy 2 get 1 free sale so basically 3/$10), 4 yards of velvet from Hobby Lobby and 27' of trim to wrap around the screen and Miniwax Satin from HD. Will attempt this with my air HVLP spray gun since I already have two of them..have it on a double regulator so should never run out a consistent pressure stream.

Trying to figure out where to start first and can't decide but i think I have 90% of all materials needed so far just need to get it mounted and spray.
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post #696 of 1587 Old 04-08-2012, 07:04 AM - Thread Starter
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bjamm, be sure to use a GOOD Water/ Rust Filter

To quote James T. Kirk;
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post #697 of 1587 Old 04-10-2012, 10:17 AM
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How much screen gain is SF V2.5 3.0 vs 4.0? For my screen size of 98" from my Epson 8350 13ft away, it seems I'm right on the edge of being able to watch in low to high ambient lighting according to the projector calculator. Currently my room has moderate lighting but I plan to cover up a skylight so I'll be in the middle of low to moderate. My viewing habits would be sports during the day and movies at night, probably a 50/50 split. What would you recommend?
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post #698 of 1587 Old 04-10-2012, 01:59 PM
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Finally finished painting last night! After practicing a LOT I took the gun over to the screen itself and realized that I had been worrying myself over nothing at all. It took seven coats; three dusters, three a bit heavier, and a final duster. In the end it came out looking pretty amazing.

Here's a shot of the finish, I'll be posting many more of the entire build once i have all the finishings in place.

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post #699 of 1587 Old 04-10-2012, 02:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shinwa View Post


Here's a shot of the finish, I'll be posting many more of the entire build once i have all the finishings in place.


Now that is a good looking, dark Gray 5.0 finish.
It's about as smooth and texture free as one can expect to get, and the image being a Macro as it is cannot really convey just how smooth to the eyes and touch it really is, I'm sure.

Thanks for sharing...it's all that really counts for anything anyway.

Hey...is that my Tip?

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post #700 of 1587 Old 04-10-2012, 02:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nimp3 View Post

How much screen gain is SF V2.5 3.0 vs 4.0? For my screen size of 98" from my Epson 8350 13ft away, it seems I'm right on the edge of being able to watch in low to high ambient lighting according to the projector calculator. Currently my room has moderate lighting but I plan to cover up a skylight so I'll be in the middle of low to moderate. My viewing habits would be sports during the day and movies at night, probably a 50/50 split. What would you recommend?

Sorry...got a little side tracked and left your missive unanswered.

The Calculator doesn't have a "High Ambient Light" designation, just Low Ambient & Ambient.

At 13' throw with a 98" diagonal SF v2.5 3.0 surface you should expect 25 foot lambert of reflected brightness.

That would more than suffice for any amount of reasonably controlled moderate Ambient Light, and by your description, that's where your headed.

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post #701 of 1587 Old 04-10-2012, 05:36 PM
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That's encouraging to know that that's about "about as smooth and texture free as one can expect to get". Somehow I envisioned that the screen would be extremely smooth with no texture whatsoever, so I was a bit discouraged when mine had a texture. The image looks fantastic on my screen, and you can't see any kind of texture even up close, but I thought I did a mediocre job at best.
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post #702 of 1587 Old 04-10-2012, 06:59 PM
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hey guys.

nice to hear the new glowing reports of finished sf and mm screens today... seems you guys have been enjoying your collection of movies on the new screens instead of sharing.

selfish i must say.
well at least your family and friends are reaping the benefits.

i've got much work to do...
hoping one day i can share a couple of my outside the box ideas with you.
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post #703 of 1587 Old 04-10-2012, 08:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post

bjamm, be sure to use a GOOD Water/ Rust Filter

Got the drill atttachment paint mixer today..

Is there a difference between these two filters?

http://www.amazon.com/TEKTON-4755-Oi.../dp/B001NSYV58

http://www.amazon.com/Neiko-Tools-Li.../dp/B002GQ3SUA

My guess is the Tekton since it does up to 150psi..?
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post #704 of 1587 Old 04-10-2012, 08:46 PM
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Thanks for the tip. I hope to complete the project this weekend and hopefully I'll have some pictures worth posting.
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post #705 of 1587 Old 04-11-2012, 12:39 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bjamm View Post

Got the drill atttachment paint mixer today..

Is there a difference between these two filters?

http://www.amazon.com/TEKTON-4755-Oi.../dp/B001NSYV58

http://www.amazon.com/Neiko-Tools-Li.../dp/B002GQ3SUA

My guess is the Tekton since it does up to 150psi..?

Personally, I always used a similar Filter to this one because it's more robust, has a greater filtering capacity, land being located at the outlet of the Tank...it keeps water "OUT" of the hose where condensation also occurs:
http://www.build.com/porter-cable-pf...baid=501888105


I found this "Gin located" Filter also:
http://www.amazon.com/Tool-Aid-99000...ref=pd_cp_hi_3

Mind you, both types will work, but between the Pressure Regulator "AND" the Filter, when both are at the end of the hose and hanging off the handle of the Gun, it becomes quite unwieldy.

One does not have to look and consider very closely to see why the advent of the more simple, water/rust/oil free/compressor & pneumatic hose free Electric HVLP Guns were so warmly welcomed by yours truly. I still have a 32 gallon 5.5 HP Tank, three good HVLP Guns, and all the trimmings down in storage. For the last 5 years in fact. I use the compressor occasionally to pump up tires.

To quote James T. Kirk;
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post #706 of 1587 Old 04-11-2012, 12:44 AM - Thread Starter
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Shinwa....bjamm...nimp3...CGRemakes....,

If any of you have difficulty taking well exposed Screen Shots, shoot me a PM and I'll give you some pointers.

To quote James T. Kirk;
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post #707 of 1587 Old 04-11-2012, 11:35 AM
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Here is the painted screen up on the wall. I tried taking some screen shots of it in action last night, but apparently the ISO was set too high in the camera. The images looked fine in the camera, but once I brought them to the computer they were far too grainy. I'll try again tonight and post up the results.


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post #708 of 1587 Old 04-11-2012, 12:01 PM - Thread Starter
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This suggestions are based on taking Screenies in complete darkness.

Set you Camera on Auto / No Flash

Stand back to approx. 14' if possible.

Zoom in until you have about 10% of the image making up the surrounding Screen wall.

Brace camera and shoot. Use the Shutter's Timer Function (2 sec.)

Experiment using zoom, adjusting your shooting distance in necessary.

The combo of having deep contrast and a bright image can confuse a metering system. Happens a lot. Things (bright areas) look too bright...washed out.

Somewhere along the camera's focal length, when on auto you will discover a balance.
More can be better, with distance & zoom combining to attenuate excessive light hitting the CCD.

To quote James T. Kirk;
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post #709 of 1587 Old 04-11-2012, 05:20 PM
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Not a pro, but here are a few shots I got of Horton. I don't have a very good camera, so it's probably not the best representation of the actual image. This is on Eco mode, so normal mode would be even brighter. Pretty good considering it's a relatively cheap projector.
LL
LL
LL
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post #710 of 1587 Old 04-12-2012, 09:07 AM - Thread Starter
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They look good, but shots of non-CGI content always tell a more accurate story

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"
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post #711 of 1587 Old 04-12-2012, 10:45 AM
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Sounds good. I'll get some shots of other movies with maybe a better camera.
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post #712 of 1587 Old 04-14-2012, 07:39 AM
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Hey guys, So im going to be ready to do my first Silver fire DIY screen in 2 weeks and need to make sure I'm choosing the right DIY paint job.
I have the Viewsonic pjd6211 projector and will be needing best paint job to give me a gain in brightness because when I activate the projector into 3D mode the brightness is literally cut IN HALF from the normal 2500 lumens, no joke. I was able to buy a 6 x 4 foot, 1/4 thick clear plexiglass from my roommate for 50 bucks and want to take advantage of it .
I have the no name spray painter, which actually has a name, lol and will be using it. Now I know you want a thin mixture for the mirror so which version of sliver fire will i need for this job. Second Do i want to use the Thrifty white board for the backing of the plexiglass or use sheet from a Roll of Mylar?
Is Silver fire the best solution for this DIY screen?? I painted my bedroom couple months ago and it is now a very dark color. I have complete capability of turning the room into a bat cave by covering up the 1 window i have so ambient light wont be an issue. I'm guessing when i get ready to start the actual project I'll start a dedicated thread for those who can help me with this project. Thanks for everyone's help.
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post #713 of 1587 Old 04-15-2012, 08:29 PM
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Hey guys. I'm LouG and I've been trolling this forum as a guest for a while getting my Silver Fire v2.5/4.0 painted. Just wanted to write a testimony to the amazingness that is Silver Fire v2.5.

I had previously purchased a home made mixture online, but remained skeptical to it being anything more than gray paint. I decided I wanted a little more control over the elements of my screen mixture, so a quick search found me here.

I have an Optoma GT750E and opted for 4.0 gain. Silver Fire v2.5 makes your whites pop, your darks drop, and your color glow! It's like there is a 120" LED HDTV inside my wall.

And the real kicker? I did everything COMPLETELY wrong. I'm far too lazy to claim myself an AV nerd, and as a result there are blemishes in the walls to make most on this forum cringe--and I foam rolled the entire thing.

My point being: I'm so happy with how my half-assed attempt came out I can't even imagine what Silver Fire looks like done the proper way...

Whoever created Silver Fire put in some serious R&D. I had no idea paint could do things like this. The reflective elements and color balance have in many instances (to my eyes at least) created an illusion of 3D out of 2D content. I really wish I could afford the glasses to see how 3D content looks.

A friend of mine once said, "Why don't you just use the white wall that's already there?" I can't wait to show him exactly why.
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post #714 of 1587 Old 04-18-2012, 04:34 AM - Thread Starter
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Thank you LouG and welcome to active posting!

While it's hardly ever a case where we we a first post come from a source who has already painted a SF Screen, It's great that you found this solution to your liking and did not need any additional support and instructions.

If that happens often enough, I'll get a lot more sleep.

By stating you did a 4.0 Gain, I really think you meant you did a 4.0 SF which involves using 4 ounces of Colorant in the specified amount of Reflective / Viscosity base mixes. That would not create a surface that had a 4.0 gain level though...more akin to approx 1.1 gain.

As far as rolling with a Foam roller, it's been done (I've done so on Mirrors before) but it's risky, and to prevent creating a case of sheen, the surface must almost be "dry rolled", a procedure I've opted not to translate into instructions because of the ready availability of very affordable Electric HVLP Sprayers, whose use is far more intuitive.

It would be greatly appreciated by all if you could post some images of the screen, it's surface, and hopefully a few with content shown.

Thank you for sharing what you have so far, and we hope to hear more from you soon.

To quote James T. Kirk;
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post #715 of 1587 Old 04-18-2012, 06:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post

Thank you LouG and welcome to active posting!

While it's hardly ever a case where we we a first post come from a source who has already painted a SF Screen, It's great that you found this solution to your liking and did not need any additional support and instructions.

If that happens often enough, I'll get a lot more sleep.

By stating you did a 4.0 Gain, I really think you meant you did a 4.0 SF which involves using 4 ounces of Colorant in the specified amount of Reflective / Viscosity base mixes. That would not create a surface that had a 4.0 gain level though...more akin to approx 1.1 gain.

As far as rolling with a Foam roller, it's been done (I've done so on Mirrors before) but it's risky, and to prevent creating a case of sheen, the surface must almost be "dry rolled", a procedure I've opted not to translate into instructions because of the ready availability of very affordable Electric HVLP Sprayers, whose use is far more intuitive.

It would be greatly appreciated by all if you could post some images of the screen, it's surface, and hopefully a few with content shown.

Thank you for sharing what you have so far, and we hope to hear more from you soon.

Hey MM..What would be your reply to most post above LouG?? Getting ready to paint next weekend and need to make sure I buy the right mixture.
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post #716 of 1587 Old 04-19-2012, 07:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by narhic_fd View Post

Hey MM..What would be your reply to my post above LouG?? Getting ready to paint next weekend and need to make sure I buy the right mixture.

Well....when a "Light Fusion" screen is made, it usually involves a 1/8" thin Mirror or Plexi w/Mylar. In the past, a few have used 1/4" and stated having excellent results, but I cannot personally say I have ever gone so thick.

Any light Fusion screen requires a mirrored backing. The TWH would create "White Fusion", which itself is also a proven principle.

If "White", then a SF 2.0 screen would be the top end choice with the best possible contrast...and a 1.0 right behind with additional gain.

Both employ the SF Colorant, and hence are darker than RS-MaxxMudd LL or Standard, which the latter BTW was the first RS-MM variant used on a Mirror

To quote James T. Kirk;
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post #717 of 1587 Old 04-20-2012, 05:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post

Well....when a "Light Fusion" screen is made, it usually involves a 1/8" thin Mirror or Plexi w/Mylar. In the past, a few have used 1/4" and stated having excellent results, but I cannot personally say I have ever gone so thick.

Any light Fusion screen requires a mirrored backing. The TWH would create "White Fusion", which itself is also a proven principle.

If "White", then a SF 2.0 screen would be the top end choice with the best possible contrast...and a 1.0 right behind with additional gain.

Both employ the SF Colorant, and hence are darker than RS-MaxxMudd LL or Standard, which the latter BTW was the first RS-MM variant used on a Mirror

So, which backing would you recommend using for a 2d/3d setup?? The TWH backing or the Roll of Mylar? Yeah, 1/4 thinck plexiglass is thick but I don't wont to pass it up at only $50. which would give me the greatest gain of the 2??
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post #718 of 1587 Old 04-20-2012, 01:16 PM
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1/4 plexi is pretty heavy... but i would have the smoothest surface to start from. you'll want to roll 3 coats of white upw on the backside, then do SF on the front side.

unless you know what you are doing with mylar... then no.

if you don't have the option of sintra/komatex...
or even the 1/4inch melamine from menards...

then go with TWH.
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post #719 of 1587 Old 04-20-2012, 04:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pb_maxxx View Post

1/4 plexi is pretty heavy... but i would have the smoothest surface to start from. you'll want to roll 3 coats of white upw on the backside, then do SF on the front side.

unless you know what you are doing with mylar... then no.

if you don't have the option of sintra/komatex...
or even the 1/4inch melamine from menards...

then go with TWH.

Okay first, if i go with the TWH then i'm guessing i don't need the 3 coats of white UPW on the plexiglass. I would perfer going with the TWH anyway cause less work then having to paint the back. So when it comes to mounting the THW behind the Plexiglass on the wall I'm guessing i'll just put the TWH on the wall first then put the plexiglass over it and tighting them together with the little latches i use to attach my bathroom mirrors to the wall.
Second, which will give me a better screen the TWH or the Mylar as a backing?? As the post reads, I"m guessing its a little difficult to work with mylar. What are the problems you have working with mylar in this type of setup?? I have no problem working with Myler and wouldn't be afraid to learn how to mount it on correctly if it means a better screen. Thanks for your info pb_max and look forward to your reply on this. Thanks everyone who is helping on this. can't wait to do it next weekend.
Since it is a 3D setup that i'm focusing on, the one that gives me the brightness, edge is the one i would be going for involving the TWH or the Mylar as a backing.
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post #720 of 1587 Old 04-20-2012, 06:39 PM
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narhic_fd;

you can go with eith.er the twh or the mylar behind the plexi... sandwiched as you said... so long as you can get the mylar firmly sandwiched up against the plexi.

as for the differences... the mylar backing will tend to have the better black levels.
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