The Official Silver Fire V.2 Thread. - Page 25 - AVS Forum
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post #721 of 1525 Old 04-20-2012, 07:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pb_maxxx View Post

narhic_fd;

you can go with eith.er the twh or the mylar behind the plexi... sandwiched as you said... so long as you can get the mylar firmly sandwiched up against the plexi.

as for the differences... the mylar backing will tend to have the better black levels.

when it comes to attaching the Mylar to the plexiglass, what would you use to adhere the Mylar to the Plexiglass but would dry clear enough to not hinder or block the projector beam from hitting the myler??
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post #722 of 1525 Old 04-21-2012, 12:08 AM
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Mini-update as i've b een out with an injury this last week or so and haven't got much done. I created a new thread here http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...0#post21933300 so not to keep asking a million questions in here
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post #723 of 1525 Old 04-21-2012, 06:21 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by narhic_fd View Post

when it comes to attaching the Mylar to the plexiglass, what would you use to adhere the Mylar to the Plexiglass but would dry clear enough to not hinder or block the projector beam from hitting the myler??

I really think you should just mount the Plexi, coat it with Glidden Gripper Primer (Roll on 2 coats minimum using a smooth, Fine Finish Roller and w/a light sanding after the 2nd coat) and them apply SF 1.0

You can instead go with "White Fusion" and use the TWH backer, but doing so introduces the need to get the exact correct amount of paint on the top of the Plexi or otherwise there is really no use for having the "Gap" between the Top surface and the reflective rear 1/4" behind. Likewise if you use the Mylar.

To quote James T. Kirk;
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post #724 of 1525 Old 04-21-2012, 08:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post

I really think you should just mount the Plexi, coat it with Glidden Gripper Primer (Roll on 2 coats minimum using a smooth, Fine Finish Roller and w/a light sanding after the 2nd coat) and them apply SF 1.0

You can instead go with "White Fusion" and use the TWH backer, but doing so introduces the need to get the exact correct amount of paint on the top of the Plexi or otherwise there is really no use for having the "Gap" between the Top surface and the reflective rear 1/4" behind. Likewise if you use the Mylar.

what enhancement am i attaining by doing the plexiglass with 2 coats of white primer, then the Silver Fire on the top vs just spraying Silver Fire on a plain piece of TWH??
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post #725 of 1525 Old 04-21-2012, 10:13 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by narhic_fd View Post

what enhancement am i attaining by doing the plexiglass with 2 coats of white primer, then the Silver Fire on the top vs just spraying Silver Fire on a plain piece of TWH??

Excepting taking into account that the plexiglass will have a surface that will more readily
accept paint, there would be no advantage between the each or the other, especially if you already possess the plexi.

To quote James T. Kirk;
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post #726 of 1525 Old 04-21-2012, 02:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post

I really think you should just mount the Plexi, coat it with Glidden Gripper Primer (Roll on 2 coats minimum using a smooth, Fine Finish Roller and w/a light sanding after the 2nd coat) and them apply SF 1.0

You can instead go with "White Fusion" and use the TWH backer, but doing so introduces the need to get the exact correct amount of paint on the top of the Plexi or otherwise there is really no use for having the "Gap" between the Top surface and the reflective rear 1/4" behind. Likewise if you use the Mylar.

I do really want to go with the light fusion setup. I know it will require exact correct amount of paint on the top but when it comes to precise stuff like that i love those kind of things. I've had plenty practise using the gun on painting my room and doing another screen so i feel confident in doing it. Ill do some test sprays to and post the videos so i can tell me what i need to change.
I'm pretty set on doing it, lol.
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post #727 of 1525 Old 04-22-2012, 05:34 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by narhic_fd View Post

I do really want to go with the light fusion setup. I know it will require exact correct amount of paint on the top but when it comes to precise stuff like that i love those kind of things. I've had plenty practise using the gun on painting my room and doing another screen so i feel confident in doing it. Ill do some test sprays to and post the videos so i can tell me what i need to change.
I'm pretty set on doing it, lol.

Well then, you should try using the Mylar for your Backing.

A "Sandwich" of Plexi- and Mylar and TWH would work....

To quote James T. Kirk;
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post #728 of 1525 Old 04-22-2012, 04:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post

Well then, you should try using the Mylar for your Backing.

A "Sandwich" of Plexi- and Mylar and TWH would work....

If you were going to do a screen like this using the Mylar and plexiglass. Would you somehow paste the Mylar to the back of the plexiglass using some sort of ultra clear, drying glue of some sort or would you just try to sandwich it as best as possible between the wall and the plexiglass??
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post #729 of 1525 Old 04-22-2012, 04:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post

Well then, you should try using the Mylar for your Backing.

A "Sandwich" of Plexi- and Mylar and TWH would work....

oh, and which version of silver fire do i go with if i'm using the Mylar backing ???
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post #730 of 1525 Old 04-22-2012, 05:15 PM
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i've done several 2x4 samples of a mylar backed plexi... using uiltra clear
adhesive and spray adhesive.

that was tricky enough... so i'm not gonna attempt to do a 4x8 screen.

worse yet the ultra clear glue softened the relfectivity quite a bit. and it takes quite a bit of time for the adhesive to dry between the mylar and plexi.
until it does, you'll actually have more of a milky white screen than a silver reflective screen.

lastly, because the spray adhesive or brush on adhesive become tacky long before you finish putting it on the entire 4x8 surface...getting the mylar to lay perfectly flat and without introducing air bubbles... well, good luck with that.

sandwhich the mylar as best you can between the plexi and twh... without the adhesive.

best of luck
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post #731 of 1525 Old 04-22-2012, 06:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pb_maxxx View Post

i've done several 2x4 samples of a mylar backed plexi... using uiltra clear
adhesive and spray adhesive.

that was tricky enough... so i'm not gonna attempt to do a 4x8 screen.

worse yet the ultra clear glue softened the relfectivity quite a bit. and it takes quite a bit of time for the adhesive to dry between the mylar and plexi.
until it does, you'll actually have more of a milky white screen than a silver reflective screen.

lastly, because the spray adhesive or brush on adhesive become tacky long before you finish putting it on the entire 4x8 surface...getting the mylar to lay perfectly flat and without introducing air bubbles... well, good luck with that.

sandwhich the mylar as best you can between the plexi and twh... without the adhesive.

best of luck

Thanks, i'll let my brain chew on it a bit to see what I come up with. Which Silver Fire version would you use for the mylar light fusion.
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post #732 of 1525 Old 04-23-2012, 06:21 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by narhic_fd View Post

oh, and which version of silver fire do i go with if i'm using the mylar backing ???

sf 2.0

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post #733 of 1525 Old 04-25-2012, 10:39 AM
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I just wanted to chime in after some time away enjoying my work. Following the advice I gained here (and doing so much wrong - the pictures I posted of my progress show it), I don't have a single complaint about my Silver Fire screen.

I used sintra for the screen material and sprayed with a Chicago Electric HVLP sprayer. I followed MM & pb_maxxx's advise. In the end, I love it. I've had several parties at the house and everyone walks away thinking the screen is incredible.

I don't go to the movies anymore, either. I get a better picture at home.

Thanks for all the help MississippiMan & pb_maxxx (and everyone else who posts here). Going on 6 months and I don't think it could have turned out any better.

~Whip
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post #734 of 1525 Old 04-25-2012, 12:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whipdancer View Post

I just wanted to chime in after some time away enjoying my work. Following the advice I gained here (and doing so much wrong - the pictures I posted of my progress show it), I don't have a single complaint about my Silver Fire screen.

I used sintra for the screen material and sprayed with a Chicago Electric HVLP sprayer. I followed MM & pb_maxxx's advise. In the end, I love it. I've had several parties at the house and everyone walks away thinking the screen is incredible.

I don't go to the movies anymore, either. I get a better picture at home.

Thanks for all the help MississippiMan & pb_maxxx (and everyone else who posts here). Going on 6 months and I don't think it could have turned out any better.

~Whip

Well then..."Whip us" up some Screen shots!

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post #735 of 1525 Old 04-25-2012, 08:28 PM
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It's probably right in front of me, in post #1 no less, but which is the "HG, high gain" mix ? Is the HG mix, just Silver Fire v2 with 1oz mixture of colorant added ?
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post #736 of 1525 Old 04-26-2012, 09:02 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The big picture View Post

It's probably right in front of me, in post #1 no less, but which is the "HG, high gain" mix ? Is the HG mix, just Silver Fire v2 with 1oz mixture of colorant added ?

It also has a higher amount of Pearl, and additional UPW.

Shoot PB-Maxx a PM for more tips on this.

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post #737 of 1525 Old 05-03-2012, 08:43 AM
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Over the weekend I started to paint my 2nd screen (this one being for my HT). SF v2.5 3.0 and finished yesterday for a total of 7 coats. So far, it is stunning. I will get pro shots up over the weekend.

Now, the question I have is how to finish the wall off?

I would like to paint it all Mickey Mouse Ear black with no trim around the screen.

Wife thinks a black border (pine frame wrapped with velvet or other blackout cloth) and then the lighter blue paint around that. Having 3 different color walls would look out of place.

What are your guys thoughts.


all fired up
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post #738 of 1525 Old 05-03-2012, 09:38 AM - Thread Starter
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While I'm sure that the majority of members would have an opinion that differs from your wifes
But.....
To quotes King Leonidas, " Thier numbers count for nothing."

Truthfully, you don't have an awful lot of space at the top of the screen for trim, yet more trouble a man that is a fact that your ceiling isn't such close proximity to the screen. That being said, I'd let her decorate the screen wall as she sees fIt, while she allows you to paint a 30 inch wide black stripe across the ceiling directly over the screen.

Many do not realize that the color of the wall the screen is mounted on the can seldomom have any affect on image quality. It is the surrounding walls and ceiling that have the most effect.

To quote James T. Kirk;
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post #739 of 1525 Old 05-09-2012, 06:03 PM
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First off...this forum is the BEST! I think I could spend the next year reading stuff on here and never grow tired of it. Now that the brown-nosing is out of the way...

I'm just getting started on my basement room...currently have a 50" pani plasma but talked the wife into "letting" me get a projector. I ordered an Epson 8350 a few days ago so it should be here by the weekend with any luck. I'm wanting to do a Silver Fire screen on Sintra/Komatex board but I don't know what size I'm going for yet. Even though I am scared out of my mind to spray it, I'm going to. Since this is my first projector I wanted to project it on the wall first and watch a few things, just to get an idea of what a comfortable size would be. It's a lookout basement with a deck over the windows, so there's not a ton of ambient light (see pic below). I included some measurements in the pix below too, except for the fact that my seating is approx 11' from the wall with room to move back up to 1 foot if needed. My questions are these...

1: Given the prj I will have and the amount of ambient light in the room (I don't use the can lights very often at all), what version of SF v2.5 should I use? I was thinking 3 but no clue really.


2: Shown in the pic below, I plan on putting the prj on a shelf instead of ceiling mounting it, but it would be about 16" off center...I would make use of the nice lens shift feature on the epson. Would the SF screen respond well to that or would I be way better off ceiling mounting it centered horizontally with the screen.

3: As you can see, my screen-wall has what I like to call "the stupid shelf" on it. The builder framed in the top portion above the foundation and then framed in the foundation afterwards, so the lower part of the wall is 7" out from the top part (all my measurements are taken from the lower part of the wall.). Is it stupid for me to think I can "rig" something up with a frame and the Sintra board without having to frame in the top part and extend the wall up to the ceiling? I guess I'm just looking for suggestions.

Sorry for the long post, and thanks in advance for any comments!
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post #740 of 1525 Old 05-10-2012, 01:19 AM - Thread Starter
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jschuetz,

First off, I'm sure I speak for all DIY Screen contributors when I say we thank you for your compliments. On this Forum, we try our best to address the widest range of possible questions regarding PJ selection and installation / Screens choice, and Theater design. In truth, all the aforementioned are governing factors in determining "Best Case" scenarios. Or even, "I gotta do the best I can..." kinda get-bys.

To that effect, sometimes the advice you receive runs counter to what is expected. But it's "all Good' because it comes for much experience, not a few decidedly different examples.

Answers to your listed posers.

1. SF 2.5 3.0 us a excellent choice. With reservations. (see question 2.)

2. 16" off center translates to being "very off center" as relates to the amount of Lens shift needed to correct such. There are two very good reasons to commit to a Inverted Ceiling mount.

A. Ceiling mounting will allow a "centered" approach, virtually eliminating the need for excessive Lens shift, which can reduce Lumen output, create image distortion, and limit "vertical Lens shift ability...of which you will also need a maximum of travel if you Shelf mount the PJ and needs must lower the image to a great degree. Take my word on this...it's a given.

B. You can move the PJ closer to within 10% of the minimum allowable Throw distance for the given Screen size...allowing you to optimize lumen output, and turn the PJ on Low Lamp mode for better Blacks and longer Lamp life.

If you simply must mount the PJ "away back there" then do so on a Shelf that protrudes out from the Corner "sideways". You could even make it be a high shelf you could then suspend a ceiling Mount from and invert the PJ.

3.You can do it. There won't be that much Screen needing support, and really, a simple 1 x 4 Poplar "Box" Frame directly behind the raised area will suffice if the Sintra itself is adhered to the bottom wall.

To quote James T. Kirk;
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post #741 of 1525 Old 05-10-2012, 03:14 AM
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Thanks a ton MM! I had a hunch that I would be better off ceiling mounting the pj. Just to be sure I get what you're say'in...if I end up going with a 96" screen, the throw "range" is 9' 5" - 20" based on Epson's calculator. The ideal throw distance would be within 10% of the minimum, so 9' 5" - approx. 10' 4"? My only reasoning for putting the pj back farther was to keep it out of the way. The ceiling's pretty low (7' 6") and I figure at the highest I could mount it hanging at most a foot. It sounds like I'll just have to deal with that though...there's a lot of things that are out of our control when it comes to this stuff so it makes a helluva lot of sense to be as precise as we can be with the things that ARE in our control.

I'll get my supplies on order asap and get to work...although I'll probably be back for a confidence boost when I get ready to spray the screen :-/

Thanks again!
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post #742 of 1525 Old 05-10-2012, 06:41 AM - Thread Starter
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jschuetz,

If you use a Chief RPA-168 Mount Kit combined with a Peerless ACC-570 Round Ceiling Plate and a 2" long Threaded 1.5" NPT Nipple, the distance from the ceiling to the bottom of the PJ will only be 9"

To quote James T. Kirk;
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post #743 of 1525 Old 05-12-2012, 08:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post

sf 2.0

Hey MississippiMan, I've decided to do White Fusion and using the Thrifty White H. as the backing instead of using Mylar. I've put up the TWH and just cut the plexiglass and peeled the paper coating off the 1/4 plexiglass. Cleaned most of the sticky junk from the adhesive paper and this and that. I'm about to put the Plexiglass up and sandwich it with the plexiglass. Few questions, or i should say concerns I've got.
I've noticed my plexiglass has some scratches on it for being in the garage a while and little nicks in it. Will having these little nicks and minor scratches mess up the whole process?? Does the plexiglass have to be perfect looking?? Second, I didn't do the best job cutting the 1 1/2 length of Plexiglass off to give it a total length of 6 and half foot. The edge isn't perfectly straight. Do the edges have to be perfect??
In a Fusion setup how do you keep light escaping out of the sides, or does that not even matter in a light fusion?? Just wanting to know the little bits about all this, lol. Or, is the main thing that matters most about light fusion is getting the paint job on the plexiglass the right thickness??
Im about to mount the plexiglass on top of the TWH and will be using little clips you use to hold mirrors on wall and will tighten them enough to push the plexiglass tightly against the TWH....
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post #744 of 1525 Old 05-13-2012, 04:33 PM
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Here's some screenshots of my Epson 705HD with SF 2.5 2.0. Not the greatest camera, so it's not totally accurate.
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post #745 of 1525 Old 05-14-2012, 11:38 AM
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With regards to framing one of these beautiful screens, is it acceptable to simply use some 3 wide black velvet ribbon for installation in a non-permanent residence?
Or does wrapping MDF which is raised up from the screens surface provide significant blockage of reflected light from undesirable angles?

If it was my own home I would take the extra step and nail in the wrapped MDF, but if the same end result is acquired (minus the elegant look of course) using some quality velvet ribbon, than it would be much easier to go that route, especially when move out time comes.
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post #746 of 1525 Old 05-14-2012, 01:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vullcan View Post

With regards to framing one of these beautiful screens, is it acceptable to simply use some 3” wide black velvet ribbon for installation in a non-permanent residence?
Or does wrapping MDF which is raised up from the screens surface provide significant blockage of reflected light from undesirable angles?

If it was my own home I would take the extra step and nail in the wrapped MDF, but if the same end result is acquired (minus the elegant look of course) using some quality velvet ribbon, than it would be much easier to go that route, especially when move out time comes.

Wrapping is desired primarily because it's a known value. the Black Velvet we primarily suggest is affordable, and overall, creating a trim ring to exact dimensions and placing it exactly where desired usually is easier than using Sticky Back Velvet Tape*...whose anti-reflective properties seldom match those of the "Triple Plush" Black Velvet found here.:
http://www.syfabrics.com/View.aspx/P...Velvet/681/264

That being said, anything that works and does not detract from a screen's performance and appearance, and more so, if it allows a degree of flexibility other "preferred' apps do no...well then, I say ya gotta go for it!
* You did say "Ribbon", yes? Hmmmmm...if it has a plush, non-sheen surface and can be pulled tight enough to lay flat and confrom to the surface, it might be worthy to consider.


Butcha know there's more....what's that question about the trim's depth?

The height of the Mdf Base Board at the leading tapered edge at Screen's edge is less than 1/8", so as to "NOT" produce any shadow onto the edge of the screen from a sideways/overhead positioned-incoming light source.

To effectively mask out incoming light that approaches the screen wall from more than 30 degrees, the depth of the screen's surface from the surrounding outside leading edge would have to be over 3'.

Not practical.

Now if one has Sconces on each side of the screen, well that's different. A 16" wide Velvet surface angled outward from the screen's edge at 70 degrees works wonders.

Still kinda a "I gotta do it because..." thingee.

But absolutely, it's detrimental to have a deep (too tall actually) "Surface Mounted" Trim. The leading edge "WILL" create a inside shadow if the light coming in is of a higher foot candle level than the projected light...something not desired that's also furthered by having a White screen.

Sooooooooo.....when actual trim is used, the "screen edge" should be extremely shallow. Base Board Trim that has a single curved edge is great....as is single curved "Stepped Edge" trim.

1x3 / 1x4 ? Gosh...it's a Screen....not a Picture Window !!!!


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post #747 of 1525 Old 05-20-2012, 11:14 PM
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As what I read here, most SF mix was applied on Sintra or wall, have anyone actually applied SF mix on a retractable screen? mind to share some pictures & review?
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post #748 of 1525 Old 05-21-2012, 08:55 AM - Thread Starter
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As what I read here, most SF mix was applied on Sintra or wall, have anyone actually applied SF mix on a retractable screen? mind to share some pictures & review?

Here is a big 'ol 120" DaLite Matte White Electrol Retractable in San Diego, ensconced in a Hacienda-like home in Rancho Sante Fe

It was a "original formula" Silver Fire 2.0, "Dusted" on using a lowly old original Wagner Control Spray a-way back in 2009.

The home was one of those +$4 Mil jobs, with the Furniture in the Formal Living Room costing as much as many peoples yearly salary, so the decision to paint the Screen "inside" was not one I made lightly. Fur Shur....if I had been using a Tank/Hose/Gun HVLP Rig, it would not have happened, nor would I have considered Rolling it (Silver Fire) on since that would have been inadvisable.

As shown, the Walls & Ceiling where a bright Flat White, but fortunately the Ceiling as 12' high and the Side Walls were a good 3' & 5' away on each side of the Screen, so there was little chance of any adverse re-directed reflected light from the PJ to worry about washing out the screen's image.

So the first thing in order of doing was to liberally mask off the area where I was going to temporarily hang the Screen with chains (...eventually the Screen was located behind a built-out section of Crown Molding...) so it would be low enough to effectively reach without a walkway platform.



I covered the strange, skinny Clock, but not the Stone Hearth or Picture, knowing that the "Maid" would dust them off.



However, you betcha a draped every piece of Floor Furniture....



......and every bit of the $150.00 yard Carpet!!!



BTW, that is a Epson 1080UB a'hangin' way up there at 17' away from the Screen

Let the coating commence! (...sorry, no Video, but it was a standard "Duster" procedure w/no primer applied beforehand...) You will note that I taped over the Black Surround using Painter's Blue Tape, then I taped over it again and attached the outside edges of the Screen to each side of the 10' case opening.

1st Coat



2nd Coat



Final Coat after drying.....and under "Flash" conditions



Side shot w/Flash taken from 2' away from the left corner.....



So how'd it turn out?

You tell me......., (note: Screen is now hung at proper height)













When I was done, I simply gathered up the thin plastic (9' x 12' sheets of .7 mil ) into a wad, picked up my "Wagster", and faded off onto the Beaches, where I consumed mass quantities of Anchor Steam Beer and contemplated the wonders of "String" theory as they walked by.

The Universe is a wonderful place to be....leastwise when your at the beach.

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"
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post #749 of 1525 Old 05-22-2012, 03:35 AM
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MM, thanks a lot & really appreciates your pictures, how long you have spent in order for the SF mix fully cure before you rolled up the screen? how about review after some time of usage? any cracks/wrinkles on the screen after frequent usage, roll down & roll up?
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post #750 of 1525 Old 05-22-2012, 05:35 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by WereWolf84 View Post

MM, thanks a lot & really appreciates your pictures, how long you have spent in order for the SF mix fully cure before you rolled up the screen? how about review after some time of usage? any cracks/wrinkles on the screen after frequent usage, roll down & roll up?

Cure Time before initial retraction: 72 hours under good drying conditions. It should feel "Dry" to the extended touch....not "Cool".

The Screen shown was painted in 2009, has been extended & retracted far more than most, and still exhibits no wrinkles, cracking or peeling. I wouldn't say it's been extended more than it's been retracted though, because after all, when lowered it effectively blocks a major Case opening into the Grand Foyer.

In truth, the total amount of paint applied with Duster spraying is very thin, it's very resilient and flexible, and very resistant to normal wear.

The only thing that mars perfection is that the Black Surround's edges tend to curve inward, but that was happening "New out of the Box" before any paint was ever applied. The Screen's surface itself still appears to be wave & wrinkle free

The "perfect" application would be to do such a paint modification on a Tab Tensioned Screen, almost all of which only come in Matte White anyway.

To quote James T. Kirk;
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