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post #811 of 1679 Old 08-12-2012, 09:57 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Crim5onKing View Post

So I got my replacement motor for the No Name and have applied 2 dusters of primer. I had a lot of trouble keeping consistent overlap between each pass. Thankfully I can see no horizontal lines however I can tell it's uneven because there are a few spots where I can see specks of the dibond panel reflecting. Should I do another duster to try to even it out or move on to shooting SF? Thanks again for all the help!

Even it out with another light coat. Overlap each row at 80% in necessary, as it's the speed and distance from the surface that determines how much paint (...or if too much...) is laid down.

Applying ultra thin Dusters with extensive overlap is better than heavier Dusters with insufficient overlap by a wide margin.

Also, if you alternate applied rows by starting further down into, or further beyond the leading edge of the surface, and still maintain a medium of accuracy as far as overlapping, you wind up filling in the surface all the more evenly...and further avoid any potential Horizontal Stripping.

In the end, the entire idea behind Dusters is that you don't apply too much paint at once, so by building up to a opaqueness gradually, it's easier to see, and to even out sparser covered areas.

If paint is applied too heavily and a plainly obvious line is seen, it's much more difficult to compensate by "spot filling" without also adding more paint to the heavier area. It's best to avoid that worriesome situation all together.

So use your eyes as a judgement for completion. If you can see any area of Dibond showing through too obviously, hit the surface with another Duster, and adjust your beginning of the next overlapping row, so when it reaches a sparser area, it is centered on the needful area/s.

Once the surface is looking evenly coated to the "Casual" inspection (...it needn't be perfect...) let it dry as long as possible, then proceed with the SF, applying it with the same method, and judgmental criteria. You want a finished coating that shows as even a covering as possible, but without unneccesary thickness.

It was a wise man who once said that it is far easier to add more paint if your determination is that it is needed, than it is to remove an excess of paint evenly, because the image is too soft because of surface absorbtion.


........and I still mean it. tongue.gif

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post #812 of 1679 Old 08-13-2012, 11:24 PM
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So I've applied 5 dusters of SF and I can definitely see horizontal striping. Under ambient light it is almost imperceptible but in a dark room with a flashlight it is obvious. What can I do to repair the situation?
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post #813 of 1679 Old 08-14-2012, 04:25 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crim5onKing View Post

So I've applied 5 dusters of SF and I can definitely see horizontal striping. Under ambient light it is almost imperceptible but in a dark room with a flashlight it is obvious. What can I do to repair the situation?

Lets review your painting technique.

1. How Tall is your Spray pattern? (should be 10" -12' minimum as shot from @ 14" distance from the Screen. If not, check #s 2 & 3 )
2. Is the paint properly thinned?. (...did you do the "Strain Test" through the Nylon Sock Filter? )
3. Is the Gun set to "Wide Open' (...it should be...)
4. How much Row Overlap are you doing?
5. How fast are you going across the surface?
6. You do have the Gun set to "vertical Pattern....right? (...hey, it happens...)
7. Are you cleaning the Gun after each coat...or at least after every other coat?
8. Have you re-stirred the paint left in the Cup...or in the Can?

Hz-striping after 5 coats usually means the criteria of 2 or more of the above are not being met. Most likely, the spray pattern is too weak because the paint is not thin enough and only the center of the pattern is getting much paint. Or the Gun isn't set to "Wide Open' Shooting too close with a correct sized pattern can also produce striping. It could be a combination of several of the above, however the effects would be accumulative and with too many things in error, you'd begetting was too little coverage, even for a Duster Coat

To try to even out the disparity, do your "Flash Light" test and make light pencil marks on the wall that note the center of each lighter stripe.
Start your next series of Rows so that the center of the "correctly sized" vertical spray passes over the weaker areas. continue to do this over the next 3 Dusters.

It sounds like your not in too much trouble. If the issue is simply that the coats have been applied too thinly, then you should have used relatively little paint. That's way easier to correct than overtly heavier striping caused by very thick, too slow-too close applications.

If the Dusters are going on too thin...and your paint is properly thinned and your maintaining both the correct Distance, Pattern height & proper Overlap...., the the issue is simply speed. Slow down so that your movement across the material is at 2' per sec (...a moderate speed walking sideways...) Keep that overlap at 70%. Do not try to go back to "Spot Cover" weaker areas, let more complete coats with adjusted Overlapping rows row the job.

To quote James T. Kirk;
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post #814 of 1679 Old 08-14-2012, 04:14 PM
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Please forgive me for such a basic question, but am trying to figure out where to purchase all the components for this recipe.
I could locate the simple one, but Any help would be appreciated on finding the following...

Liquitex Basics - Napthol Crimson Red
Liquitex Basics - Phthalocyanine Green
Liquitex Basics - UltraMarine Blue
Liquitex Basics - Cadmium Yellow - Deep Hue
Rustoleum Metallic Accents – White Pearl*
Liquitex Basics Silver
Liquitex Basics Gold
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post #815 of 1679 Old 08-14-2012, 05:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by suketu159 View Post

Please forgive me for such a basic question, but am trying to figure out where to purchase all the components for this recipe.
I could locate the simple one, but Any help would be appreciated on finding the following...
Liquitex Basics - Napthol Crimson Red
Liquitex Basics - Phthalocyanine Green
Liquitex Basics - UltraMarine Blue
Liquitex Basics - Cadmium Yellow - Deep Hue
Rustoleum Metallic Accents – White Pearl*
Liquitex Basics Silver
Liquitex Basics Gold

suketu159!

Welcome to AVS's DIY Screen Forum!


Here's your Info:

SILVER FIRE v2.5

(Color Components)
100ml - filtered/distilled water for rinsing color components from utensils

50ml - Liquitex Basics - Napthol Crimson Red
25ml - Liquitex Basics - Phthalocyanine Green
16ml - Liquitex Basics - UltraMarine Blue
9ml - Liquitex Basics - Cadmium Yellow - Deep Hue
.................................................... All components in Blue are sourced at your local Micheal's Arts and Crafts, or www.DickBlick.com

(Viscosity Components)
16 oz. Minwax Polycrylic - Satin Finish @ Home Depot or Lowes
24 - 36 oz. Distilled or Filtered water*

(Reflective Base Components)*

Rustoleum Metallic Accents – White Pearl* ........................................ * Rustoleum Metallic Accents - White Pearl is currently found only at Menards or online.
Liquitex Basics Silver
Behr 1850 UPW Flat @ Home Depot
Liquitex Basics Gold

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"

http://www.invisiblestereo.com
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post #816 of 1679 Old 08-14-2012, 06:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post

Lets review your painting technique.
1. How Tall is your Spray pattern? (should be 10" -12' minimum as shot from @ 14" distance from the Screen. If not, check #s 2 & 3 )
2. Is the paint properly thinned?. (...did you do the "Strain Test" through the Nylon Sock Filter? )
3. Is the Gun set to "Wide Open' (...it should be...)
4. How much Row Overlap are you doing?
5. How fast are you going across the surface?
6. You do have the Gun set to "vertical Pattern....right? (...hey, it happens...)
7. Are you cleaning the Gun after each coat...or at least after every other coat?
8. Have you re-stirred the paint left in the Cup...or in the Can?
Hz-striping after 5 coats usually means the criteria of 2 or more of the above are not being met. Most likely, the spray pattern is too weak because the paint is not thin enough and only the center of the pattern is getting much paint. Or the Gun isn't set to "Wide Open' Shooting too close with a correct sized pattern can also produce striping. It could be a combination of several of the above, however the effects would be accumulative and with too many things in error, you'd begetting was too little coverage, even for a Duster Coat
To try to even out the disparity, do your "Flash Light" test and make light pencil marks on the wall that note the center of each lighter stripe.
Start your next series of Rows so that the center of the "correctly sized" vertical spray passes over the weaker areas. continue to do this over the next 3 Dusters.
It sounds like your not in too much trouble. If the issue is simply that the coats have been applied too thinly, then you should have used relatively little paint. That's way easier to correct than overtly heavier striping caused by very thick, too slow-too close applications.
If the Dusters are going on too thin...and your paint is properly thinned and your maintaining both the correct Distance, Pattern height & proper Overlap...., the the issue is simply speed. Slow down so that your movement across the material is at 2' per sec (...a moderate speed walking sideways...) Keep that overlap at 70%. Do not try to go back to "Spot Cover" weaker areas, let more complete coats with adjusted Overlapping rows row the job.

So I'm thinking my problem is the paint wasn't thin enough and shoddy row overlap. How thin should the paint be? I think I recall reading that it should be almost water thin. Is that true? I had it thinned quite a bit but it didn't really pour right through the nylon strainer.

UPDATE: Well I sure have a talent for bad outcomes. So I thinned the remainder of my SF and started shooting. I was going 2' per sec (approx.) and the gun ran out of paint at the end of my 2nd to last pass. I couldn't have been going too slow as I was done in less than 1 minute. I only have about half a gun left of SF now. (As a side note this is how I can tell I didn't thin the paint properly. I should have much more left after 5 to 6 moderately light coats.) Also there was on little bubble that I tried to lightly dab and did so with a little too much 'umph redface.gif Guess I shouldn't quit my day job and take up painting tongue.gif

Should I sand the little ridge down where I dabbed the bubble then spray again?
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post #817 of 1679 Old 08-15-2012, 07:54 AM - Thread Starter
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Crap.

I wrote some advice last night and then lost my connection at home before I could send it through. Then my Daughter came into town unexpectedly (...she drives Over-the-Road...) and said; "Let me take you out for a Steak dinner for your B-Day."

Zip. I was so gone so fast. The place I went to...while I was waiting for dinner to arrive I got onto the 'ol Galaxy II and re-composed the Post (...Wife & Daughter were not amused...) I hit send, and I thought you were covered.

Now I see it didn't post at all. : (...great Steakhouse, but lousy Cell reception obviously... mad.gif )

But not that it would have mattered if you chugged out of paint. frown.gif

Of course, I want to be "Johnny on the spot" whenever someone posts for help during the process. I know people hate to wait for a response. But basically, most every unfortunate outcome I do see posted results from people forging ahead...so that's why I all too often risk the ire of the Wife, and even go sleep (...and "cuddle"...) deprived to try to stay on top of every request. (.... Been going on for years now, so there's no changin' I guess...)

.....but that 20 oz Ribeye and a bottle of Pinot Noir '02 sorta precluded my checking back at 11:00 pm. when they carried me back home. For that...I am truly sorry. frown.gif

Onward.......................

Yes.....using the corner of a large Fine Grit Sanding Sponge, lightly hit the raised area with a gentle, circular motion. It should not take much to make it feel as smooth as the surrounding surface.

Now...you must feather in some coverage. Gradually. To do this, you place the Gun sideways to the affected area, press the Trigger, then "sweep" into, across, and back outward in one smooth motion, then reverse & return back to the original position. Stop. Wait for 5 minutes. Repeat. Stop. Wait. Repeat one last time.

Then try to get one last coat up, but start down at the bottom so that the next full coat you do is certain to cover the previously affected area. If the rest of the Screen looks to be all good, you can simply stop a couple rows above the area at issue, wait the prescribed drying time, then hit the entire area again. (...if you do decide to stop a couple rows above the affected area, make the last row go on at 3' per second so the leading edge of that row is also kind of "Feathered" into the prior coat...)


Just be advised that the art of "Feathering" in onto a repair involves getting your pivoting action centered so the the only area that gets a brief moment of full spray contact as you rotate inward is the area that needs it. The area just ahead of...and past that spot gets less paint. And the rotation must be at a precise, even speed....a smooth twisting of the wrist as you barely move your arm a few inches sideways to help carry the gun into position.

ALWAYS start the Gun up before you start twisting. You want to avoid laying on a lot of paint, and any more possible "start up splatters"

To quote James T. Kirk;
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post #818 of 1679 Old 08-16-2012, 09:36 AM
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No need to apologize. I hope you had good Birthday dinner ( Happy birthday smile.gif ). I glad you thought the post went through, I wouldn't want to be the cause of you reposting during dinner with your family.

As far as the screen goes I ended up just going for it. With half a gun left I figured I was either going to fix it or need to buy more paint so I couldn't really lose. I sanded the area where I poked the screen and then did two REALLY fast dusters. I'll take some pictures when I get home from work but long story short I was able to get rid of most of the dab mark and all of the HZ-striping I had is gone. While I can still see the mark if I look for it I can't see it while watching something and I don't feel like spending $50 to mix up another batch of the reflective base.

All in all I'm happy so far with the screen. It's a little sparkly but I'll give it a week or so for the paint to dry all the way before I judge that aspect.

Thanks again for all your help MM. If your're ever in Boise I'll get you a beer.
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post #819 of 1679 Old 08-16-2012, 11:14 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crim5onKing View Post

No need to apologize. I hope you had good Birthday dinner ( Happy birthday smile.gif ). I glad you thought the post went through, I wouldn't want to be the cause of you reposting during dinner with your family.

That boat has already sailed, and nearly caught a Broadside from the Lady Admirals. Just the one effort was akin to my being guilty of Mutiny at the Bounty. biggrin.gif
They couldn't Keel-Haul me on my B-Day. But who knows how many Decks I'll have to eventually swab.

Quote:
As far as the screen goes I ended up just going for it. With half a gun left I figured I was either going to fix it or need to buy more paint so I couldn't really lose. I sanded the area where I poked the screen and then did two REALLY fast dusters. I'll take some pictures when I get home from work but long story short I was able to get rid of most of the dab mark and all of the HZ-striping I had is gone. While I can still see the mark if I look for it I can't see it while watching something and I don't feel like spending $50 to mix up another batch of the reflective base.

It sounds OK. Most no one can see such defects while watching content. It's only when the Screen surface is showing the contrasting shadows caused by low ambient, indirect lighting that such minor imperfections stand out...and even then most have to go looking for them.

But of course, if you are even 1-200th as particular as I am, perfection with the Lights On can be / is important if your Friends crowd up close to inspect. Friends being the crass, unforgiving people we love them for being will always focus in on that one little spot.

Eviscerate them, clean up the gore...and put on another movie.
Quote:
All in all I'm happy so far with the screen. It's a little sparkly but I'll give it a week or so for the paint to dry all the way before I judge that aspect.
Thanks again for all your help MM. If your'e ever in Boise I'll get you a beer.

If I ever......cool.gif I have to make a run over to Denver at months end for a Home & Garden Show exhibit. Meet me there and I'll buy the 2nd round biggrin.gif (...I just rolled past Boise on the way to Seattle back in June, so don't discount the idea altogether... wink.gif ...)

The "Sparkly-ness will tone down after a bit of curing, but the degree of what you see can be related to, and / or controlled by the position (height) of the PJ in relation to the placement of the screen and where you sit.

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"

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post #820 of 1679 Old 08-19-2012, 05:16 AM
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Michael's weekly Sale Coupon is for 45% includes Liquitex!

Check their web site and print it.

Rew
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post #821 of 1679 Old 09-04-2012, 09:35 PM
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If anyone is having trouble finding the forumula to mix your SF.. let me know. I decided against painting my screen and not sure if I can return all the items.

I have all liquitex colors including the silver and gold. the minwax and behr 1850 flat if you need it ( i think i can return that to Home depot), the rustoleum pearl.

Just asking for price paid, each liquitex was 4.99, rustoleum was $35, minwax was about $15 and behr I think was about 13. Add cost of shipping and the complete set/formula can be yours.

PM me if needed, Glad to help someone having hard time finding everything vs it just sitting in my home not being used.

Thanks
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post #822 of 1679 Old 09-05-2012, 01:51 PM
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Hi MississippiMan and pb_maxxx.

Thank you for all your inspiring work and help with DIY guides and tips. Your know how and experience really shines through in your efford to enlighten individuals like my self. I'm a newbie when it comes to DIY screens but after reading some of your threads I feel like I can give somewhat not to misleading advice to my neighbor when he asks me how, what, when, where my home theater came to life.

If I may;
I have just required an Epson tw980, very much like the Epson PowerLite Home Cinema 1080, and like your opinion on SF v2.5 shade choise for my living room.

The living room is 10' by 20' and the screen will be mounted on the 10' wall. On the opposite side of the room from the screen there are three large floor to ceiling windows. They let in a lot of light and we allways keep the ceiling light on when we are awake. My wife would like to keep it that way so I have to aim for a screen that can work for her.

The tw980 is 1200 ansi with contrast 10.000:1 and full HD. I know it's not a lot to work with but I'm open to any suggestions. Thank you.

Regards
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post #823 of 1679 Old 09-06-2012, 05:23 AM
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@ bjamm - PM sent...
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post #824 of 1679 Old 09-06-2012, 10:16 PM
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I've seen mention of a High Gain versions of Silver Fire but see no recipe for it on the first post. What gives?
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post #825 of 1679 Old 09-07-2012, 10:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hubbs1982 View Post

I've seen mention of a High Gain versions of Silver Fire but see no recipe for it on the first post. What gives?

The really High Gain versions all involve SF 2.5 6.0 or darker versions, where the additional Gain is intended to offset the attenuation such exceedingly dark Gray screens usually present.

In the next day or so I'll be posting screen shots of a SF 6.0 that is approx. 2.0 gain

To quote James T. Kirk;
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post #826 of 1679 Old 09-07-2012, 10:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post

The really High Gain versions all involve SF 2.5 6.0 or darker versions, where the additional Gain is intended to offset the attenuation such exceedingly dark Gray screens usually present.
In the next day or so I'll be posting screen shots of a SF 6.0 that is approx. 2.0 gain

Thanks for the reply.

So if you follow the formula for SF 2.5 6.0, you end up with a high gain version?

I'm thinking of going with a 3.0 blend to combat ambient light, I was wondering if I could make a High Gain version of 3.0.

Thanks
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post #827 of 1679 Old 09-08-2012, 07:49 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hubbs1982 View Post

Thanks for the reply.
So if you follow the formula for SF 2.5 6.0, you end up with a high gain version?

No, you get a mix whose reflectivity quotent has been increased enough to compenstate for the attenuation such a dark hue will introduce. But it is not a high gain app.
Quote:
I'm thinking of going with a 3.0 blend to combat ambient light, I was wondering if I could make a High Gain version of 3.0.
Thanks

You can....by increasing the amount of Pearl. Doing likewise with the Silver however results in excessive graininess and considerable lessening of viewing cone.

The darker versions were created more specifically for really BIG screens (180" +) that had to deal with excessive ambient light. Being larger that average, t5he viewing distances involved usually rendered any degree of graininess far less noticeable.

I will review some documentation I have stored away involving the higher gain apps, and get that info to you sometime early next week after I return from the Denver area.

Meanwhile, tell me about your own situation, (PJ - Room Lighting )that makes a higher gain version necessary. 3.0 is still above 1.0 gain, and usually more than adequate for today's higher Lumen PJs.

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"

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post #828 of 1679 Old 09-08-2012, 08:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post

No, you get a mix whose reflectivity quotent has been increased enough to compenstate for the attenuation such a dark hue will introduce. But it is not a high gain app.
You can....by increasing the amount of Pearl. Doing likewise with the Silver however results in excessive graininess and considerable lessening of viewing cone.
The darker versions were created more specifically for really BIG screens (180" +) that had to deal with excessive ambient light. Being larger that average, t5he viewing distances involved usually rendered any degree of graininess far less noticeable.
I will review some documentation I have stored away involving the higher gain apps, and get that info to you sometime early next week after I return from the Denver area.
Meanwhile, tell me about your own situation, (PJ - Room Lighting )that makes a higher gain version necessary. 3.0 is still above 1.0 gain, and usually more than adequate for today's higher Lumen PJs.

I had another thread going.

I am doing a 96" wide 2.35:1 piece of sintra in a room with moderate ambient light during the day, but well controlled at night. Off white walls and ceiling and brown carpet. Projector is a Mitsubishi HC6800 mounted at approximately 12' with a 12' seating position.

I am thinking of doing 3.0 to combat ambient light and to improve blacks.
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post #829 of 1679 Old 09-08-2012, 01:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hubbs1982 View Post

I had another thread going.
I am doing a 96" wide 2.35:1 piece of sintra in a room with moderate ambient light during the day, but well controlled at night. Off white walls and ceiling and brown carpet. Projector is a Mitsubishi HC6800 mounted at approximately 12' with a 12' seating position.
I am thinking of doing 3.0 to combat ambient light and to improve blacks.

Well that'll do the job quite nicely. I can definitely assure you that with that size screen, that projector, and a room with that type of viewing conditions, SF 3.0 will accomplished everything you're settng out to do.

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"

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post #830 of 1679 Old 09-10-2012, 10:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post

Well that'll do the job quite nicely. I can definitely assure you that with that size screen, that projector, and a room with that type of viewing conditions, SF 3.0 will accomplished everything you're settng out to do.

Thanks for the reply.

Unfortunately I am traveling with work for the next 10 days, otherwise I would be enjoying my new screen. Finished spraying late last night, checked it before heading to the airport this morning, I am really happy.

Thanks
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post #831 of 1679 Old 09-11-2012, 01:31 PM
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Hi, I've been scanning this forum for about a month now. Great resource, and thanks for the contributions of everyone.

Over the last few weeks I have acquired a 60"x107" piece of Sintra, well actually it is Komatex (only $76). I can't mount it directly to the wall because it has a very heavy texture to it. So, I built a frame out of 1x4 poplar that is about 1.75" larger than the outside dimensions of the Sintra. So the Sintra overlaps the wood frame by 1.75" and 1.75" of frame remains exposed for me to attach some trim. I have searched the forum a lot for specific recommendations on adhesives to attach Sintra to wood. MM made some specific recommendations in one thread but the links provided were to the Canadian Home Depot site. Those products are not available in the U.S. stores as far as I can tell. I also saw some people recommend double sided tape. I was just wondering if anyone had any specific products that they recommend. I worry about kinking the Sintra, and I also worry about the difficulty of applying the adhesive and getting the Sintra on the frame squarely.

I have all the ingredients for SF headed to my doorstep which I plan to spray on with the Graco sprayer. I'm just struggling with deciding whether I should go with 3.0 or 4.0. I have an Optoma HD20 (got it for a steal at $650 on Amazon), the throw is roughly 14'-6", the screen size is 122", my room is a basement with no windows, so I have the option of going pitch black, but I would like to be able to use the projector with some ambient light in the back behind the viewing area or to the side of the viewing area. I want to be able to have a party while watching a football game or watch a movie with my wife while the kids are playing so I don't want it totally dark for those kinds of events. Any suggestions on which version to go with?

Thank you!
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post #832 of 1679 Old 09-11-2012, 01:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Knock, knock......?

Adhesive......

"Powergrab Heavy Duty" for Paneling in "Clear" (Home Depot - Ace - or Lowes) Expect to have to block the edges with applied pressure to seat the Komatex to the wood securely.

One potential issue it that with the sheeting not being supported (braced) in the middle, you might get a outward "bow'. You might not. The best way to avoid such is to lay the Sintra face down and press the 1x4 frame into place "AFTER" you glue an additional 1x4 frame that creates a inset perimeter. Or do it in reverse...no difference...the goal is to increase the tensioned support on the Komatex. The combined 7.25" support on all sides should hold the entire sheet rigid.

I assume you'll use a "French Cleat' hanging method? I suggest you use an actual "Hangman Pro " assembly:
http://www.ooks.com/p-495-hangman-professional-french-cleat-picture-hanger-200lbs.aspx

After hanging, hold the screen out to where it's level vertically and cut / place corner shims at each bottom corner to bring the bottom out to the same distance as the top where the Hangman is attached.

SF Paint? 3.0 all the way...

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post #833 of 1679 Old 09-11-2012, 03:43 PM
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Thanks for the adhesive suggestion, I will look for that at Lowes or HD tomorrow. Your suggestion to apply the frame with the Komatex face down seems like an intuitive way to do it to minimize the possibility of bowing or kinking. I will definitely try that. The frame I built does have one vertical member in the center to help stiffen things. Do you think I should follow your instructions the same in light of that, but also apply adhesive to the middle support or is that risking putting an indent in the Komatex?

I already purchased a Hangman french cleat, so that is how I plan to hang it. Good suggestion on the corner shims, I hadn't thought of that yet.

SF 3.0 it is then!

I'm sure I will be back here in a week or two with some painting questions. I think I have it figured out now, but I know once I get into it, there will be something that is a head scratcher.

Thanks again for the help and the quick response!
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post #834 of 1679 Old 09-12-2012, 02:32 AM
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Hi Mississippi man.

Have you had any experience with vinyl mirror suspended on a frame as the base for SF light fusion? I found some suppliers that sell vinyl mirrors 66" wide on rolls and they are like $10 per yard.
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post #835 of 1679 Old 09-12-2012, 03:48 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rengep View Post

Hi Mississippi man.
Have you had any experience with vinyl mirror suspended on a frame as the base for SF light fusion? I found some suppliers that sell vinyl mirrors 66" wide on rolls and they are like $10 per yard.

Nope....only Mylar. I's be very interested in seeing whatever link you could provide though...... smile.gif

If SF paint is applied over a Mirrored surface that has no "depth" it becomes what is known as "1st Surface Light Fusion".

Achieving the correct amount of paint coverage on such 1st Surface SF applications is extremely touchy. Unlike a normal 1/8" thick Acrylic Mirror, the paint must be applied more thickly, but only to the extent that no vestige of a hotspot is seen. This requires constant checking after the 3rd Coat using the actual PJs output.

However it's made easier when a darker SF formula is involved...and it's those applications where it is of most benefit.

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post #836 of 1679 Old 09-12-2012, 03:03 PM
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Thank you MM.

I was leaning towards SF 3.0 as there is a fair amount of naturall light being reflected through the North and East facing living room windows. I got a good deal on the eu version of the Epson 8100 and were looking for a very cheap light fusion to go with it.

Here are two suppliers that may have what I need:

http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/618559134/Wholesale_Air_bubble_Silver_and_golden.html

http://www.ebay.com/itm/SILVER-Shiny-Mirror-Foil-costumes-fancy-dress-Fabric-45-/140539921837?pt=UK_Crafts_Fabric_Textiles_SM&hash=item20b8d505ad

The first one is expensive but has 30 meters on the roll so I could sell of the leftovers for DIY car pimping.

The second is not vinyl but polyester, painted with mirror like silver color. This would be the "dirt cheap" option.

I do believe the first option will have the most potensial. Feel free to comment:)
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post #837 of 1679 Old 09-13-2012, 04:34 AM - Thread Starter
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I agree with your assessment of the 1st choice. It should offer a decent shot. One of the detrimental aspects of Mylar was the lack of adhesive backing.

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post #838 of 1679 Old 09-16-2012, 06:07 AM
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I've been reading through the forum and I have decided to do a Sf light fusion screen. I have all the materials already ordered. I've chosen to use a 2 mil Mylar that has a black poly backing , and a 3mm clear acylic to put over the Mylar . I'm making a 100 inch 16x9 screen , my seating distance is 10ft and my throw distance is 15 ' using a jvc rs40. I watch a lot of movies in 2d and 3d on my current screen which is made from the designer white laminate , but now football season is around the picture gets washed out with the lights on , or If the bay window to the left of the screen is open. Well my question is which silver fire 2.5 light fusion would be best for 2d , 3d active , and watching football with some ambient light in the room ?
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post #839 of 1679 Old 09-16-2012, 07:41 AM - Thread Starter
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3DHT,

Welcome aboard!

Getting your feet wet by diving in head first is a quick way to immerse one's self in DIY-ism. However if you find yourself running out of air...or just need a rope tossed for support, please ask before you hold up 3 fingers and wave goodbye.

"Some Ambient" does not refer to unrestricted "Lights ON' or having a Bay Window (...that's the biggest kind...) to the side of a screen with the Blinds/Curtains open during the day. With the JVC we /you are working with 1300 lumen...which while they "are" JVC type lumens, and the screen only 100" diagonal, at 15' throw the foot lambert of reflectivity you'd get from a SF application robust enough to deal with a worst case scenario would almost certainly present you with a dimmer 3D image than you'd want. If it was possible, moving the rs40 up to 12 feet throw would make a significant difference, allowing for a significantly darker Gray surface.

Light Fusion will help, brook no doubt, and the darker the shade, the thinner the coating over the Mylar/acrylic can be. But having sufficient lumen output for such a given task is paramount.

I'd suggest a SF 2.5 3.0 4.0 if the PJ can be relocated.

Apply at least 4 coats. the first being a Duster, and the following 3 being very light coats, all with the specified 70% overlap. Or do all Dusters (6-7 ...same overlap ) Bag that PJ during painting, but use it after the 3 light coats or the 6th Duster on to check for a noticeable pinpoint of light from the PJ's lamp reflecting from off the Mylar. Whether you do 1 Duster and 3 Coats (...be careful...only LIGHT coats...) or all Dusters, after you start checking, if the point of light is barely there, only do Dusters until it's completely gone. (...and only check a completely Dry screen...2-3 hours dry to the touch minimum... ) Usually, a ultra light sanding then a final Duster applied after the final application removes the pin point of light garners the best, most smoothest surface, which in turn will always produce the best result.

BTW....my old Bud CMRA swears by the results he achieved by applying two Duster Coats of white Primer first, then applying the dusters of SF. Doing such both created a initially more opaque but reflective base over the Mirror, as well as it also seemed to help more evenly distribute the Reflected Light coming from the Mirrored surface at the rear, minimizing the Lamp's hotspot sooner, which in turn helped reduce the thickness of the darker SF overlay by reducing the number of required coats. Basically speaking, it helps Noobs reach the delicate balance point of translucency / opaqueness / reflectivity a bit easier.

I feel safe in swearing by what CMRA swears by...and we have both swore repeatedly at each other to good effect. biggrin.gif

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post #840 of 1679 Old 09-17-2012, 09:49 AM - Thread Starter
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A Bump to give notice that updated Component and Tool & Material Supply sources have been added to the 1st page / 1st Post.

Look for Red / Blue Highlighted information.

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