The Official Silver Fire V.2 Thread. - Page 34 - AVS Forum
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post #991 of 1658 Old 02-01-2013, 01:59 PM
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Very nice work.

Am I reading you correctly that you more than doubled the pearl and almost doubled the UPW in the original SF 3.0 mix?
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post #992 of 1658 Old 02-02-2013, 04:26 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rengep View Post

Very nice work.

Am I reading you correctly that you more than doubled the pearl and almost doubled the UPW in the original SF 3.0 mix?

No. 24 oz additional Pearl was added to a mix where the amounts were adjusted around my adding in 32 oz (...not 22...) of Pearl from the start.
.......and please note I added the Pearl and UPW to a Mix already made to be 3.0 with the intended result being to lighten the Gray shade to approx 1.0

In the amount as listed in the Formula on the 1st page, that would adjust out to be:

16 oz Pearl
6 oz UPW

Sorry, MississippiMan don't make no puny batches.

I will be making another 2+ (...maybe 4 gal.) Gallon batch of HG Reflectivity Base very soon, and at that time I will clarify the gradient amounts to match with the listed formula.

When I experiment, often it is an intuitive affair. After having reached a certain point with a completed Mix, I myself do not find it difficult to adjust such to whatever properties I feel are required for a given situation. There is a basic route to follow when maintaining a balance between opacity, reflectivity, and hue. Yeah, that sorta "Fly by the Seat of..." adjusting comes from doing this stuff on a rather frequent basis, but by my reasoning only proves that the basic formula is very adaptable. However it would be a crazy thing to try to advise every Poster on how to custom make every Mix to the umpteeth degree of what might be absolutely ideal.

Not that I haven't done so on occasion. wink.gif

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post #993 of 1658 Old 02-02-2013, 08:06 AM
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i'd venture to say it's more in the 1.5 to 1.75 range to end up with.
the pearl in of itself will only lighten it about 1/2 a shade... and the upw maybe a full shade.
don't ask me how i know;)
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post #994 of 1658 Old 02-04-2013, 03:54 PM
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what would be the consequences of thinning the SF mix too much?
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post #995 of 1658 Old 02-04-2013, 04:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by WereWolf84 View Post

what would be the consequences of thinning the SF mix too much?

The paint would exit the gun in a loose splatter of almost watery paint. There would be little "Mist" and excessive "wetness" no mater how you tried to "Dust".

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post #996 of 1658 Old 02-04-2013, 04:13 PM
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because I'm thinking to add some water (probably 4-8 oz) to the leftover 24oz SF mix, not only make it a quart but perhaps also helps to get less texture
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post #997 of 1658 Old 02-15-2013, 08:13 AM
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Just wanted to give an update as its been a few months since I completed the screen.

The screen came out very good, with the exception of a slight sheen which results in a rainbow effect similar to a rear projection DLP TV set has.
Also, I have a LOT of glitter sparkles. I have to move my head a little to get them from blinding me. but at any point in the room, you can move you head to see/hide the sparkle.

I think both the above is from the mica size in the paint. its just too large.

I still am very satisfied with the results and WOULD use Silverfire again, but its not perfect. I had a lot of trial and error, which i posted publicly. The end result, after painting tons of items that are in the room (speaker grills, shade covers, outlet plates, ect ect) I know my spray skills are upto par as all other finished projects came out perfect in execution and resulting in a SUPER smooth finish. I cant say the same for the SF application though. It needs to be looked at for the many of us using the no name sprayer. You have to compare apples to apples when you are telling people that it should result in something that is different than what others are seeing.

Please take this as constructive thoughts and not bashing or talking smack. I think you for ALL of the hard work and research you guys have done and would be staring at a knockdown textured wall still if it wasnt for that said hard work.
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post #998 of 1658 Old 02-15-2013, 08:18 AM
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Here is the finished screen with trim

AppleMark
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post #999 of 1658 Old 02-16-2013, 03:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Greg,

I wish I had heard of this situation before months had passed. You deserve better than to "live with" anything less than you really want.

If you can remove the Trim, purchase a Large Fine Grit Sanding Sponge (8" x 3" x 1") in the Drywall Dept at HD, and very lightly sweep sand the screen's surface with long, broad overlapping strokes. That's "kissing it" with the sponge....using almost no pressure. Just enough to keep it in your hand and against the surface.

That will reduce / remove the sheen and also mask out much of the "Sparklies".

From you description, it sounds like the top surface is very smooth. Maybe too smooth for the amount of reflective particles. Sometimes times, people manage to apply a final coating that is just barely thicker than required, and that final coat, going up onto a already smooth surface, can spread out and dry into a very smooth surface.

And paint with the degree of reflectivity and viscosity components as Silver Fire does can easily aquire too much sheen if applied too heavily. Such is the singular most important reason that rolling SF is not an option.

Just be gentle with the sponge, and sand everything evenly (...but briefly...), and your sheen issues will be gone.

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post #1000 of 1658 Old 02-21-2013, 10:38 AM
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MM,

I'm gathering all of the supplies now in prepartion to shoot a SF v2.5 3.0 screen on the wall. I know i will need to sand the wall and primer, etc, but I do have a few questions I haven't seen addressed in the reading I've done. Hopefully you can help me.

1. I have the old HVLP guns I bought back in the day for using with an air compressor. I haven't actually looked to see what all is in those guns, so I don't know if I will need any additional tips (yet). My question is whether or not you recommend using this "old" setup as an acceptable alternative to buying an electric setup? I have a 20 gall compressor I would be using.

2. I have my old MMud screen still and it will go up in the kids' section of the basement with the old Epson pj. I would like to spray this one as a test before I spray the main theater's screen. The needs are different between the two rooms and the pj is very different (700 lumens max when new and it's not new any more...). The TW100 worked well in a no-ambient light theater with the MMud screen, but the new room will have controllable ambient light. It will mainly be used as a gaming rig for Wii and xBox stuff, but they will want to watch TV and movies there, too. My questions are:
a. What is the recommended SF mix for a less-controlled ambient light setting?
b. How much should I make up for this small screen (only 94" diag I think)? Should I make a huge batch and then adjust to make my 3.0 mix?
c. How easy will it be to take the leftover paint from that screen to make my 3.0 screen mix?

Thanks for the help. And if you'll be over this way any time soon, let me know.

Something profound

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post #1001 of 1658 Old 02-21-2013, 05:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scoob5555 View Post

MM,

I'm gathering all of the supplies now in prepartion to shoot a SF v2.5 3.0 screen on the wall. I know i will need to sand the wall and primer, etc, but I do have a few questions I haven't seen addressed in the reading I've done. Hopefully you can help me.

1. I have the old HVLP guns I bought back in the day for using with an air compressor. I haven't actually looked to see what all is in those guns, so I don't know if I will need any additional tips (yet). My question is whether or not you recommend using this "old" setup as an acceptable alternative to buying an electric setup? I have a 20 gall compressor I would be using.

The big issues with conventional Tank Fed HVLPs are:

a. Maintaining consistent pressure. 15-20 gallon tanks will drop by 20 lbs at the gun over just 2-3 minutes. Especially since setting the pressure at the Gun @ 45 psi is required. Loss of pressure= unequal spray pattern. Ugh.
b. Condensation in the Hose / Tank. Remember "Fish Eyes"? Ugh.
c. Rust particles. Especially if you have a older tank. Ugh.
(solution to b. & c. requires a "good" water / rust filter....and even that won't help with under amounts of either
d. Getting the precisely correct settings on the Gun. Fluid - Pressure both must be matched to the Tank's abilities, Over tax the Tank's ability to maintain a adequate reserve and.........Ugh,

I was never so glad as when I discovered the potential and ease of use that Electric HVLP Guns offered. My 32 Gallon / Ingersoll Rand rig has lain dormant for 7 years now. Well, I do use the Tank to pump up Tires. rolleyes.gif
Quote:
2. I have my old MMud screen still and it will go up in the kids' section of the basement with the old Epson pj. I would like to spray this one as a test before I spray the main theater's screen. The needs are different between the two rooms and the pj is very different (700 lumens max when new and it's not new any more...). The TW100 worked well in a no-ambient light theater with the MMud screen, but the new room will have controllable ambient light. It will mainly be used as a gaming rig for Wii and xBox stuff, but they will want to watch TV and movies there, too. My questions are:

a. What is the recommended SF mix for a less-controlled ambient light setting?

For a -700 lumen PJ? I would suggest you use the Reflective Base Mix with just 1 ounce of Colorant and leave it at that.
Quote:
b. How much should I make up for this small screen (only 94" diag I think)? Should I make a huge batch and then adjust to make my 3.0 mix?

Adjust the amounts used to make the Reflective Mix so that you make 1.5 times the regular amount.
Quote:
c. How easy will it be to take the leftover paint from that screen to make my 3.0 screen mix?

Just make sure you add the 3 oz Colorant to no less than 3 quarts SF Reflective base
Quote:
Thanks for the help. And if you'll be over this way any time soon, let me know.

I might plan a trip into the Smokies, just because your over yonder. Steel yer Wool, Brudder. cool.gif

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post #1002 of 1658 Old 02-22-2013, 06:06 AM
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Thanks a bunch. Looks like electric is the way to go to avoid all kids of issues. Now the big question: which ones are the current best of the best? I don't see any specific model numbers that are current (I cannot find the Wagner 01417210 anywhere now). Teh Wagner 01417005 is listed for about $55 now - is that a "good" one for this? And I guess a 1.5m tip is what I want, right? And advantage to going with a 1.0 instead or in addition to?

Learned last night that the timeline is pushed back by a week, so I have a little breathing room/time to get everything ready.

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post #1003 of 1658 Old 02-23-2013, 03:21 AM - Thread Starter
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Scoob5555,

Gosh....but you are out of touch!

The affordable "go to" Electric HVLP sprayer has been the Graco 2900, and it has been featured in almost every thread concerning spraying.

Most purchase the "re-furb" listed on Amazon.

One thing you might recall is how the price of Parkland board soared once we made it popular? Well recently the vendor selling the 2900 raised his price from $39.00 to $63.00. Easy to understand considering the rush to get them AVS alone created, but also sad to see happen because at $39.00 it was an absolute steal. It made the decision to spray an easy, affordable one for all the chintzy DIY'ers out there. (....you know who you are....)

Anyway, the 2900 comes with a 2.0 mm needle. Aftermarket vendors offer a 1.5 mm & 1.0 mm needles for approx $22.00 - $25.00.

The.Wagners all come with 2.0 or 2.2 mm needles, which will work...of course, but deliver a somewhat coarser spray if exyreme care (...rapidly applied Dusters...) are not applied.

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post #1004 of 1658 Old 02-23-2013, 05:30 AM
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FYI- Gleem Paint in Gulfport, MS has the 2900 refurb for $49.99+ shipping. Here is a link if anyone needs it: http://www.gleempaint.com/noname.html
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post #1005 of 1658 Old 02-23-2013, 06:59 AM
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Thanks for the clarification and that link. I had the Graco number, but was looking for the Wagner numbers. CC and DD don't help much.

Timeline moved up again. Electric getting put in on Wed and the room will be ready for paint by next weekend. Now it's crunch time. Any suggestions on the part number for the 1.5 mm tip? Graco and Wagner, please. Is it the Earlex 1.5mm needle/tip?

Something profound

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post #1006 of 1658 Old 02-23-2013, 11:57 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scoob5555 View Post

Thanks for the clarification and that link. I had the Graco number, but was looking for the Wagner numbers. CC and DD don't help much.

Timeline moved up again. Electric getting put in on Wed and the room will be ready for paint by next weekend. Now it's crunch time. Any suggestions on the part number for the 1.5 mm tip? Graco and Wagner, please. Is it the Earlex 1.5mm needle/tip?

yessir. datsit.

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post #1007 of 1658 Old 03-06-2013, 11:47 AM
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Tonight is the night, at least for priming with the Graco. Since my screen will be close to 12' diagonal MM helped me to create a method for me to be able to spray up almost 10 ft off the ground.

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post #1008 of 1658 Old 03-06-2013, 12:44 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scoob5555 View Post

Tonight is the night, at least for priming with the Graco. Since my screen will be close to 12' diagonal MM helped me to create a method for me to be able to spray up almost 10 ft off the ground.

Shhhhh....................my legal team hasn't yet filed the Patents on the MMan II Fusion Assisted Anti-Grav Levitation Platform. Keep it mum, please.
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post #1009 of 1658 Old 03-07-2013, 04:44 PM
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OK, figured out a solution using two of the contractor's portable scaffolds: put the board up about 5' and tied them together using a ratcheting tie-down for stability. That gives me a good height with only one short barrier to step over for the whole length. The only bad part is that I can only reach about top 1/2 of the screen. Then I have to climb down, push the scaffolds back and do the bottom 1/2. It's the best solution I could find and I just finished the first duster. I'll get the hang of doing it on the scaffolds after the next duster coat I hope. It's just awkward being up so high on a mostly stable, but still-wobbly platform while trying to be perfect. I'm doing really light coats, so I'm planning on probably 6-7 coats. That should give me time to figure out how to get it done the right way.

Something profound

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post #1010 of 1658 Old 03-07-2013, 08:39 PM
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Finished for the night. Did 3 dusters then two heavier coats. I had one faux pas when my knee hit the hose and I looked down and didn't release the trigger, leaving me with a heavy spot by the time I realized what I'd done. So I had to wait for awhile while that dried and I sanded down to match the surrounding area. I had another minor incident when the hose disconnected from the gun right at the end of a row of the last coat. Some larger globs came out so I'll have to sand those down tomorrow. After this second heavier coat the screen is really taking shape and I can tell I'll like the finished product.

After I started the first heavier coat I realized that I had enough time while waiting for it to dry to start the other smaller screen ("only" 94" diag) that will be in the kids area with the old Epson TW100. I did a few duster layers on it on top of the old MMud formulation (I don't remember which at this point). It's going to take at least another two runs on it to get it up to where it should be, but I have enough paint still to make it for both screens barring some bizarre accident.

By the time I upped some of the ingredients to ensure I had enough for both screens, I think I'm spraying a SF 2.5 2.5 for these screens. The main room will be a dedicated home theater with completely controlled ambient lighting and a 20' throw for the Panasonic AE8000U projector. That screen will be around 140-144" diag. The kids room will have less light control but a much smaller viewing area and we can control the placement of the pj to ensure max lumens for the screen we have. It will mainly be used for gaming and occasional movies. I think the 2.5 2.5 will work well for both applications, though I had considered going lighter on the kids screen initially. The timing of everything for the theater, however, dictated that I needed the 2.5 3-ish paint first so I could ensure getting it on the wall before the rest of the room is painted. I would have liked to complete the screen tonight so I wouldn't need to worry about masking off the rest of the painted theater to finish the screens, but I got pinched with work, etc, so I'm only about 60% of the way there. Alas, it will have to be good enough for now. And the good news is that the paint and carpet are being scheduled now and we should have a complete room in the next few weeks (before Easter). Guess I need to start ordering the projector and new receiver so I have a system to run in the completed theater...

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post #1011 of 1658 Old 03-08-2013, 04:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Yep, that's exactly how to approach it.

Light coats gone awry are easiest to fix.
Light coats never run...or develop Orange peel.
Light coats dry faster.
light coats are smoother.

I remember what I had to do on that 16' x 9' ft S-I-L-V-E-R of calbear's

Two Tables holding two Saw Horses holding a 16' long Dual 2x8 walk board.
......and it had to be moved once for each coating...either up or out from the Wall. 8 Times I recall.

....a Man's gotta do what a Man's gotta do.

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post #1012 of 1658 Old 03-08-2013, 06:04 PM
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I think I have it completed. Did two more thicker coats tonight and it looks to be even and smooth. I'll wait for it to dry over night to see how it looks after drying. The main problem I have there is the amount of light available in the room since the lights aren't working yet. I only have my portable fluorescent I use for working on my cars.

I have one more coat for the kids screen and I think that'll be good, too. Time to order the projector!

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post #1013 of 1658 Old 03-09-2013, 07:01 AM
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Done. Ended up doing one more coat on both screens last night before going to bed. That makes 8 total for the main theater screen and I think 7 for the kids screen. Both look spectacular. No time this weekend to do any viewing using the old Epson TW100 pj, but I'll try next week sometime. I'm very happy to have the main screen finished before the painters come to do the rest of the theater. Next week should be a hive of activity with paint, carpet, finishing the HVAC, and the electric and lights.

Pics of the evolution of the theater so far.

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post #1014 of 1658 Old 03-09-2013, 09:30 AM
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Nice work there scoob. Same shade SF I did for my son and he loves his screen. Looking forward to some screen shots smile.gif
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post #1015 of 1658 Old 03-10-2013, 10:16 PM
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Posted on a different thread asking questions about which SF to use etcetera. (Mississippi suggested 3.0 for a BenQ W1070 with 11' 7" of throw) Long story short put up my 107" x 60" 6mm sintra sheet using double sided 3m tape (stuff is great holds the sheet and if you need to take it down it peels right off the wall). I mixed my paint last night and shot four coats of 3.0 on my left over cut piece. Here are some screen shots you can see the painted section in the middle against the regular white sintra. I like the improvement in contrast and how it deals with ambient light but whites seem to have a blue push to them. Is this something that can be helped with calibration (Was going to wait until I shot the screen until I attempted a calibration) or is it a sign that the colorant was off?



The white water on the falls seems to have a blue tint. Over head lighting on full.



Lights at 30 percent. Lights off.



Shots to show skin tones with 3.0.



Crappy macro shot of screen piece, and a shot of it against the unpainted screen.

My only question is does everything look good? the color of the painted screen piece and so on?

Is the blueish tint just come with having the gray screen, or is it something that can be fixed? (I also have the 1mm needle on order I shot that piece with the 2mm that came with the Graco 2900)
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post #1016 of 1658 Old 03-11-2013, 05:38 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by middlevil View Post

Posted on a different thread asking questions about which SF to use etcetera. (Mississippi suggested 3.0 for a BenQ W1070 with 11' 7" of throw) Long story short put up my 107" x 60" 6mm sintra sheet using double sided 3m tape (stuff is great holds the sheet and if you need to take it down it peels right off the wall). I mixed my paint last night and shot four coats of 3.0 on my left over cut piece. Here are some screen shots you can see the painted section in the middle against the regular white sintra. I like the improvement in contrast and how it deals with ambient light but whites seem to have a blue push to them. Is this something that can be helped with calibration (Was going to wait until I shot the screen until I attempted a calibration) or is it a sign that the colorant was off?

My only question is does everything look good? the color of the painted screen piece and so on?

The painted panel looks to be the right shade for a SF 2.53.0
Quote:
Is the blueish tint just come with having the gray screen, or is it something that can be fixed? (I also have the 1mm needle on order I shot that piece with the 2mm that came with the Graco 2900)

You can correct the slight Blue push by adding an additional 2 ounces of Metallic Gold to the entire mix. Dilute the MG into about 4 oz water first...stirring until it is thoroughly mixed, then add 1/2 the amount into the SF. Apply that, let the paint dry, then observe. If there is any push left at all, add the remaining, then simply let the small amount of calibration needed take care of anything left.

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"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"

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post #1017 of 1658 Old 03-13-2013, 07:52 PM
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Well Mississippi I did what you said and mixed in the 2 ounces of the MG with 4 ounces of water. Tried half first didn't see much difference, then tried the rest this is a screenshot of the results. On the bottom part of the test panel is the original mix for comparison on top the new with the MG added. The blue painters tape in the middle of the piece is the line between the two sections. To me it still looks like I am getting the blue tint the area with the white sintra seems to have a more natural skin tone. So what I need to know is do you think that what you did on that screen were you increased the UPW and the rustoleum would whiten up the mix and still show increased blacks and contrast? Or would the addition of the pearl be overload because of the extra MG that's already in the mix? The problem is that I only have about 6 ounces of the pearl left after doing the initial batch.


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post #1018 of 1658 Old 03-13-2013, 10:54 PM
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here in lies the issue...
the only way to get a fairer assessment of the situation to 'reverse' the sample with the larger sintra sheet...
otherwise for the most part all the medium to light colors of the spectrum will appear lighter on the white sintra as opposed to the smaller grey sample.
and we often equate lighter with brighter... and the same can be said of flesh tones.
take a second look at your mouth area of the girl in your sample above... and you see that what appears 'brighter' is really an unatural warm spotting...
so unless you reverse and recalibrate for the grey screen the situation 'may' never change.

understand this... more saturated colors by its very definition means that color is deepened. and in a comparison as you've done where the sintra is the predominate focus... the grey sample will always appear to have a greyer/blue tint...

but to make you feel much better about the what you are seeing...
my advice to you would be the use the entire 6oz of pearl you have and add it to the mix along with 3oz of UPW...
then you'll see a difference you can more appreciate... and wrap you mind around.




while it's not scientific... i wanted to get a better sense of where your mix was headed... without the blue tape line influencing my eyes.
so i did a little cropping and found that mm's initial suggestion is working in the right direction.
if you consider the skins tones of the 1st sample vs the sintra and the 2nd sample vs the sintra...
the skin tones on the sintra on top is lighter than the skin tones of the sintra of the bottom.
and yet the there is less greyish in the top sample vs the lighter skin tones on the top sintra then...
the more greyish on the bottom sample vs the slightly darker skin tones on the bottom sintra...
that would tell me that your mix is less grey/blue tint.

follow through with my mix suggestion... then spray away.
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post #1019 of 1658 Old 03-15-2013, 07:00 AM
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Help needed! I made up a batch of SILVER FIRE v2.5 2.0 not too long ago, sprayed onto a freshly primed wall. After priming, I did notice a couple small imperfections from the mudding. I touched those up with more mud, resanded, and reprimed. Everything was looking good. Sprayed numerous very light coats of SF. After letting it dry for a couple days, I fired up the Mits HC4000 and on a bright white scene, I made note of a couple other spots that may have been sprayed thin. I sprayed an even coat again across the wall, but this time I am getting blisters in a 12" square! I sanded then all down, resprayed, and the blisters are all back again. How do I correct this? Thanks for any assistance.



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post #1020 of 1658 Old 03-15-2013, 09:51 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Golitzbt View Post

Help needed! I made up a batch of SILVER FIRE v2.5 2.0 not too long ago, sprayed onto a freshly primed wall. After priming, I did notice a couple small imperfections from the mudding. I touched those up with more mud, resanded, and reprimed. Everything was looking good. Sprayed numerous very light coats of SF. After letting it dry for a couple days, I fired up the Mits HC4000 and on a bright white scene, I made note of a couple other spots that may have been sprayed thin. I sprayed an even coat again across the wall, but this time I am getting blisters in a 12" square! I sanded then all down, resprayed, and the blisters are all back again. How do I correct this? Thanks for any assistance.

Blisters are caused by trapped moisture rising up through the painted layers. At one point or another, not enough drying time was allowed, probably at the "Mudding" stage.

Blisters must be 'edged' off using a Blade that excises them off the surface. After doing so, very lightly sand only the edges where you cut away the risen area. Then, after 24 hrs, you apply a very small amount of drywall compound into the depression...just enough to barely even the surface out. This application will shrink inwards, and you then apply another very light cost. let it dry ( thin spots do dry fairly quickly)

At some point when the mud no longer shrinks below the surface level, and after you know it is completely dry, apply one final "skim" coat that goes beyond the edges of the area by a few inches, and VERY LIGHTLY sand the EDGES only first, feathering them thinly enough you start to see the Mud fade away. Then give the center of each area a few light swipes of the Sanding sponge. Now Prime "LIGHTLY" and let dry. Re-prime "Lightly" again.

Now...you "feather-dust in" a light coating of the SF. Let dry for about 1hour (..we don't want to take any chances...) because moisture evaporating on a surface tends to draw up moisture trapped at lower layers. Repeat the "Feather-Dusting" process over each spot until you see them almost disappear. Then do 1-2 Dusters" over the entire screen.

Feathering paint into an area involves engaging the trigger of the Gun while the Gun is pointing sideways to the affected area, and sweeping into that area by twisting your wrist in a smooth motion that brings the spray into and across the affected area and continues out and away from same.. You do at most 2 sweeps and then GO AWAY!

I myself have had Blisters the size of Silver Dollars pop up after a Finish Coat....and successfully made them go away using this method. As stated earlier, the real advantage of not rushing drying times is what makes for a successful repair.

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"

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