The Official Silver Fire V.2 Thread. - Page 51 - AVS Forum
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post #1501 of 1525 Old 07-05-2014, 04:52 AM - Thread Starter
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That'll do it.

Although they do also make a GLN9000 Base that is not a Paint / Primer combo and that is less expensive and just as good for our purposes.

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post #1502 of 1525 Old 07-05-2014, 04:01 PM
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That'll do it.

Although they do also make a GLN9000 Base that is not a Paint / Primer combo and that is less expensive and just as good for our purposes.
Thanks. As long as the primer doesn't cause a problem. I saw two versions of a GLN9011 that had a primer version and a non-primer version, but the non-primer version was only in stock as a gallon (looked like we didn't need anywhere near that much). Only saw +primer in 9000. 1750 also looked to be +primer only, so I figured the cheaper glidden should be okay by your recommendations.

Have the frame built thus far and will mount the sintra soon and start surface repairs, but it will still be a while before the move, being able to spray (don't want to move it after paint), and actually get a projector on it to show pictures off here
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post #1503 of 1525 Old 07-05-2014, 04:04 PM - Thread Starter
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My Amazon Sintra is due on Monday. Got a call from the shipper that one side had a small amount of some surface damage due to a portion of the exterior package tearing, but that one side was pristine.

It's a shame you even have to concern yourself with priming, but done right, it can help make things even more refined.

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post #1504 of 1525 Old 07-07-2014, 06:38 PM
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I ordered the Rustoleum white pearl and sterling silver from Amazon two weeks ago. Just found out they cancelled my order. Anyone having trouble getting these paints? Alternative sources? Lowes has it on the website but requires you to order a minimum of two.

EDIT: Amazon said they had 4 of silver and 13 of pearl in stock. I reordered them. Will wait and see what happens. I get the 1.0 mm needle tomorrow. Besides the Sintra this paint will be the last thing I need.

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Last edited by Adult Beverage; 07-07-2014 at 06:50 PM.
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post #1505 of 1525 Old 07-07-2014, 08:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Did you call Customer Service to inquire as to why the order was cancelled?

I had 3 consecutive instances where they shipped 2 Quarts together in one Box with almost no cushioning, and all three times they broke open in transit.

They finally shipped the order in two separate boxe at my urging s and no problemo.

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post #1506 of 1525 Old 07-08-2014, 01:34 AM
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I ordered the Rustoleum white pearl and sterling silver from Amazon two weeks ago. Just found out they cancelled my order. Anyone having trouble getting these paints? Alternative sources? Lowes has it on the website but requires you to order a minimum of two.

EDIT: Amazon said they had 4 of silver and 13 of pearl in stock. I reordered them. Will wait and see what happens. I get the 1.0 mm needle tomorrow. Besides the Sintra this paint will be the last thing I need.
Got mine in today from Amazon (White Pearl). Packaging was poor and the box was smashed, but the contents are fine.
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post #1507 of 1525 Old 07-11-2014, 10:53 AM
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Please help with the "recipe"

Hello everyone. I'm new to the forum. I purchased a projector a while back (InFocus X10) for very cheap. I then painted a screen based on the projectorcentral forums. It is Sherwin-Williams ProClassic Smooth Enamel Satin Extra White, # B20 W 51.

I've found that it creates hotspots and also has severe graininess on darker images. It looks amazing for animated movies such as Monsters, Inc., etc., but is severely lacking on darker images. I just replaced my bulb hoping to alleviate some of the issues - which did help some. I also am limited in my availability to make the room completely dark. During night hours, I can get pretty dark, but during the day it is entirely impossible. I also like to watch sports with some lighting on anyway.

I've decided that I should switch to a gray screen, but have no idea what shade or sheen. I've read so many contradictory forums regarding sheen in particular. After reading through threads until my eyes feel as if they are bleeding, I've decided that I should try SilverFire, although there appear to be MANY variations of it, and I can't seem to find the "recipe" anywhere.

At any rate, it appears that based on projectorcentral's calculator, I'm would get 18 fL at my viewing distance on a 103" screen with 1.0 gain. However, I don't believe that considers my ambient light issues.

If somebody could help point me in the right direction, I'd be greatly appreciative of your help.

Thanks everyone!
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post #1508 of 1525 Old 07-11-2014, 01:10 PM
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Got mine in today from Amazon (White Pearl). Packaging was poor and the box was smashed, but the contents are fine.
I did finally receive my paint from Amazon. The white pearl arrived yesterday and the sterling silver today. Boxes were in good shape by the packing inside could have been better. They rattled around alot. The pearl was fine but the seal under the lid of the silver detached an inch or so allowing a little paint to leak out. Not enough to get out from under the lid but I wiped it all up and tightened the lid good until I am ready to mix it all up. I think I have to finish a tree house before I can get the Sintra and start fabricating the new frame. Ah, summer.

I put the 1.0 mm needle in the 2900 sprayer and will mix up some extra white paint to get a feel for the proper viscosity and how the sprayers feels. Garage door could use a couple extra coats. Quick question for 2900 owners. Does the brass tip and needle need to come out when cleaning or just the plastic end parts? I had the Wagner CS DD previously.

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post #1509 of 1525 Old 07-11-2014, 01:41 PM
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After reading through threads until my eyes feel as if they are bleeding, I've decided that I should try SilverFire, although there appear to be MANY variations of it, and I can't seem to find the "recipe" anywhere.
The ingredients/instructions are in the first post of this thread. It gets updated periodically (hence the various colors/fonts). I went through it recently and most of the rest of the thread and typed up my own set of instructions to print out. These are not MississippiMan/pb_maxxx approved:

SILVER FIRE v2.5

Colorant Components
100 ml filtered/distilled water (rinsing color components from utensils)
50 ml Liquitex Basics - Napthol Crimson Red
25 ml Liquitex Basics - Phthalocyanine Green
14 ml Liquitex Basics - UltraMarine Blue
10 ml Liquitex Basics - Cadmium Yellow - Deep Hue

Viscosity Components
16 oz. Rustoleum Ultimate Polyurethane Matte Finish (water-based)
24 - 36 oz. Distilled or Filtered water

Reflective Base Components
Silver Fire v2.5 hue (Colorant amount in ounces – oz.) 1.0____2.0____3.0____4.0____5.0
Rustoleum Metallic Accents – White Pearl.......................20_____21_____22_____2 3_____24
Rustoleum Metallic Accents – Sterling Silver....................20_____21_____22_____23_ ____24
Behr 1850 UPW Flat (add’l 6 oz. for graininess)..............10_____10_____10_____10__ ___10
Liquitex Basics Gold.............................................. .....1.50____1.75____2.00___2.25____2.50

Mixing Instructions
1. Mix Viscosity components in a 2-gallon plastic container. Add 16 oz. distilled water initially.
2. Add the Reflective Base components (volumes based on Silver Fire v2.5 hue selected) individually to the Viscosity components while mixing. Rinse measuring cup into the mix with distilled water between ingredients.
3. Pour through gallon-size nylon mesh paint strainer into separate container to check viscosity. Poured at a steady rate (width of pinky) should partially fill the strainer, but then drop though at a rate consistent with flow from the mixed paint container. Add distilled water to achieve proper viscosity.
4. Mix Colorant components in separate container. Rinse measuring tool between colors in the container of 100 ml distilled water. Add all the distilled rinse water and mix thoroughly. Color should be similar to dark chocolate.
5. Add the proper colorant volume (in ounces) based on the selected hue (i.e., 2.0, 2.5, 3.0, etc.) to the Viscosity/Reflective Base mixture while mixing thoroughly with squirrel cage mixer.
6. Pour final mix through nylon mesh paint strainer into airtight container for storage. Add distilled water to thin if necessary.

Application
1. Use Graco HV-2900 HVLP sprayer with 1.0 mm needle. Adjust output 1/2 turn down.
2. Mix paint and pour through nylon strainer into sprayer reservoir
3. Paint is applied in dusters (3 feet/second) with 70% overlap. Allow to dry between coats (30-45 min.).
4. Clean sprayer nozzle and needle between coats.
5. Apply 7-8 coats.

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post #1510 of 1525 Old 07-11-2014, 05:10 PM - Thread Starter
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I'd say by only giving them a cursory glance that they appear to be dead on the money.

.....except that if a Fan is used and dry time is 30 minutes or less, I myself do not find it necessary to clean the Gun every coat. More along the lines of every 3 coats.

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post #1511 of 1525 Old 07-11-2014, 05:47 PM
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The ingredients/instructions are in the first post of this thread. It gets updated periodically (hence the various colors/fonts). I went through it recently and most of the rest of the thread and typed up my own set of instructions to print out. These are not MississippiMan/pb_maxxx approved:

SILVER FIRE v2.5

Colorant Components
100 ml filtered/distilled water (rinsing color components from utensils)
50 ml Liquitex Basics - Napthol Crimson Red
25 ml Liquitex Basics - Phthalocyanine Green
14 ml Liquitex Basics - UltraMarine Blue
10 ml Liquitex Basics - Cadmium Yellow - Deep Hue

Viscosity Components
16 oz. Rustoleum Ultimate Polyurethane Matte Finish (water-based)
24 - 36 oz. Distilled or Filtered water

Reflective Base Components
Silver Fire v2.5 hue (Colorant amount in ounces – oz.) 1.0____2.0____3.0____4.0____5.0
Rustoleum Metallic Accents – White Pearl.......................20_____21_____22_____2 3_____24
Rustoleum Metallic Accents – Sterling Silver....................20_____21_____22_____23_ ____24
Behr 1850 UPW Flat (add’l 6 oz. for graininess)..............10_____10_____10_____10__ ___10
Liquitex Basics Gold.............................................. .....1.50____1.75____2.00___2.25____2.50

Mixing Instructions
1. Mix Viscosity components in a 2-gallon plastic container. Add 16 oz. distilled water initially.
2. Add the Reflective Base components (volumes based on Silver Fire v2.5 hue selected) individually to the Viscosity components while mixing. Rinse measuring cup into the mix with distilled water between ingredients.
3. Pour through gallon-size nylon mesh paint strainer into separate container to check viscosity. Poured at a steady rate (width of pinky) should partially fill the strainer, but then drop though at a rate consistent with flow from the mixed paint container. Add distilled water to achieve proper viscosity.
4. Mix Colorant components in separate container. Rinse measuring tool between colors in the container of 100 ml distilled water. Add all the distilled rinse water and mix thoroughly. Color should be similar to dark chocolate.
5. Add the proper colorant volume (in ounces) based on the selected hue (i.e., 2.0, 2.5, 3.0, etc.) to the Viscosity/Reflective Base mixture while mixing thoroughly with squirrel cage mixer.
6. Pour final mix through nylon mesh paint strainer into airtight container for storage. Add distilled water to thin if necessary.

Application
1. Use Graco HV-2900 HVLP sprayer with 1.0 mm needle. Adjust output 1/2 turn down.
2. Mix paint and pour through nylon strainer into sprayer reservoir
3. Paint is applied in dusters (3 feet/second) with 70% overlap. Allow to dry between coats (30-45 min.).
4. Clean sprayer nozzle and needle between coats.
5. Apply 7-8 coats.
Thanks so much guys! Is it possible to roll this mix with a fine foam roller? I don't own a sprayer, and while I don't mind the idea of purchasing one, I'm not sure my wife would approve of my use of it inside our house. Thanks again!
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post #1512 of 1525 Old 07-11-2014, 06:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks so much guys! Is it possible to roll this mix with a fine foam roller? I don't own a sprayer, and while I don't mind the idea of purchasing one, I'm not sure my wife would approve of my use of it inside our house. Thanks again!
No

SF is spray only. Rolling would result in too much sheen and reflectivity.

But .....take heart, I often spray inside very expensive homes, around furniture that cost more than my Vehicle. I simply cover everything close at hand with thin, inexpensive plastic, or at most, make myself a temporary Paint booth out of Plastic and Thumbtacks.

Absolutely some care must be taken and certain things allowed for, but since each coat usually takes less than 1 minute to apply, and the Gun is a HVLP...there really isn't much to worry about.

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post #1513 of 1525 Old 07-11-2014, 06:38 PM
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No

SF is spray only. Rolling would result in too much sheen and reflectivity.

But .....take heart, I often spray inside very expensive homes, around furniture that cost more than my Vehicle. I simply cover everything close at hand with thin, inexpensive plastic, or at most, make myself a temporary Paint booth out of Plastic and Thumbtacks.

Absolutely some care must be taken and certain things allowed for, but since each coat usually takes less than 1 minute to apply, and the Gun is a HVLP...there really isn't much to worry about.
Got it - thanks again. How to I decide what hue is best for my situation (i.e. medium ambient light and the necessity to watch daytime sports with relatively high ambient light)? Would I be best going with the 5, or would I sacrifice too much during low ambient light during night time movies, which is really the primary use?
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post #1514 of 1525 Old 07-11-2014, 09:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Got it - thanks again. How to I decide what hue is best for my situation (i.e. medium ambient light and the necessity to watch daytime sports with relatively high ambient light)? Would I be best going with the 5, or would I sacrifice too much during low ambient light during night time movies, which is really the primary use?
It seems many have the misconception that a screen that performs well in ambient light suffers in controlled lighting.

In fact the opposite is true. If a paint can produce deep Blacks, Vibrant colors, and maintain excellent Whites in ambient light, it will absolutely stun in controlled lighting.

The real issue you have it that you have a X10, a low lumen / Low Contrast PJ. Even at it's closest possible Throw distance the best you can get is 19 fl. @ 103"

Under those auspicious limitations I would suggest Silver Fire v2.5 3.0

Nothing darker..........and do what you can to mitigate what you call "High Ambient Light".

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post #1515 of 1525 Old 07-12-2014, 08:58 AM
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It seems many have the misconception that a screen that performs well in ambient light suffers in controlled lighting.

In fact the opposite is true. If a paint can produce deep Blacks, Vibrant colors, and maintain excellent Whites in ambient light, it will absolutely stun in controlled lighting.

The real issue you have it that you have a X10, a low lumen / Low Contrast PJ. Even at it's closest possible Throw distance the best you can get is 19 fl. @ 103"

Under those auspicious limitations I would suggest Silver Fire v2.5 3.0

Nothing darker..........and do what you can to mitigate what you call "High Ambient Light".
Thank you!
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post #1516 of 1525 Old 07-22-2014, 10:36 PM
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MississippiMan, after seeing your new 130" Diagonal 2.39:1 Silver Fire v2.5 1.0 Drywall Screen thread, I'm considering this for my own setup. I've got an Epson 5030UB in an non-light-controlled room with low to medium ambient light. The throw is exactly 11'7" from lens to screen. I'm currently projecting onto a 100" Elite CineGrey 5D screen which is nice for daytime use, but I really dislike what I get from it in low to no-ambient light conditions. Even calibrated (I did it myself, using projectorreviews settings + my own observations with Disney WOW) in THX eco mode (supposedly the least lumen output) causes bright scenes to sparkle like crazy. I'm also limited to a screen size of 53" high, maximum.


What Silver Fire blend would you recommend for these conditions? I'm assuming that I need to sand down the texture on my wall first...or is there a flat material that you're aware of that is large enough in place of doing a lot of extra work to my living room wall?
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post #1517 of 1525 Old 07-23-2014, 05:16 AM - Thread Starter
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eydsamoht,

Using a 60" x 120" sheet of Sintra can afford you a 60" x 107" -122" diagonal 16:9 image.........but darn it...the minimum throw for that size with the 5030 is 11'-11"

Scaling back to 57" x 101" gets you 116" diagonal at a minimum throw of 11' -4" so at 11'-7" you still have a wee bit of Focal length left.

Post up what City you live in / near and I can source you the Sintra.

As for the level of Silver Fire, I suggest a v2.5 3.0
...and you absolutely want to use the latest components (Rustoleum Silver & Pearl and their Ultimate Matte Poly)

Building a Framed Screen and using Flexi-white is another viable alternative that affords a smooth, ready to paint surface.

Drywall surfaces are of course the best if they are...or can be made to be ultra smooth and blemish free. Plus, you'd gain a small amount of depth of throw....though not much more if you consider Sintra applied directly to the wall is virtually flat. (6 mm = 3/16")

Here is perhaps the best news. When going into calibration of a Silver Fire screen, many if not indeed most all find that there is such a extremely slight amount of adjustment needed (...brightness @ 1 point) that they just leave it alone.

I'm all about that!

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post #1518 of 1525 Old 07-23-2014, 01:17 PM
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I'm in the north Seattle area, if you know of a place. I looked at your thread regarding getting Sintra shipped through Amazon, and I think I'll pass on that method. What about Flexi-white directly on the wall?


I don't have anything in particular against working the drywall texture down with an orbital sander, I was just wondering what my options are. One concern I have with projecting directly onto the wall is that there is a slight inward bow. It's not more than a quarter inch. Does the SF v2.3 3.0 have any gain, or is it pretty close to 1.0?
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post #1519 of 1525 Old 07-24-2014, 03:46 AM - Thread Starter
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I'm in the north Seattle area, if you know of a place. I looked at your thread regarding getting Sintra shipped through Amazon, and I think I'll pass on that method. What about Flexi-white directly on the wall?


I don't have anything in particular against working the drywall texture down with an orbital sander, I was just wondering what my options are. One concern I have with projecting directly onto the wall is that there is a slight inward bow. It's not more than a quarter inch. Does the SF v2.3 3.0 have any gain, or is it pretty close to 1.0?
...

Flexi must be stretched....but if one did use Truss head screws or Broad Head Staples....in abundance....I believe you could impart the small amount of tension required to attach it directly to Drywall. Then lay your Trim over the Fasteners.

As far as knocking down texture completely with a Orbital Sander, that is something that would have to be done with exacting evenness. The best route to take is instead to "flatten" the peaks of the texture down evenly....then skim coat the surface with Compound until filled and smooth, then hand sand to utter perfection.

That's how I would do / have done it...and on some pretty coarse textured walls too. But I sure would not have entertained trying to reduce all the texture down to a flattened surface.

Too much like real work!

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post #1520 of 1525 Old 07-24-2014, 12:39 PM
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Silver fire 2.5 4.0

Let me get this straight. I've calculated everything from oz to ml and heres the result:

100 ml filtered/distilled water (rinsing color components from utensils) 100 ml
50 ml Liquitex Basics - Napthol Crimson Red 50 ml
25 ml Liquitex Basics - Phthalocyanine Green 25 ml
14 ml Liquitex Basics - UltraMarine Blue 14 ml
10 ml Liquitex Basics - Cadmium Yellow - Deep Hue 10 ml

16 oz. Rustoleum Ultimate Polyurethane Matte Finish (water-based) 16 oz -> 473,176 ml
24 - 36 oz. Distilled or Filtered water 24 oz -> 709,764 ml

Silver Fire v2.5 hue (Colorant amount in ounces – oz.) 4.0 4 oz -> 118,294 ml
Rustoleum Metallic Accents – White Pearl 23 23 oz -> 680,1905 ml
Rustoleum Metallic Accents – Sterling Silver 23 23 oz -> 680,1905 ml
Behr 1850 UPW Flat (add’l 6 oz. for graininess) 10oz 10 oz -> 295,735 ml
Liquitex Basics Gold 2.25oz 2,25 oz -> 66,540375 ml

In total that's the 3222,890375 ml or around 3,23 l of paint.
Is this correct or have I miscalculated? (and if yes - where?)
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post #1521 of 1525 Old 07-24-2014, 02:08 PM - Thread Starter
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3.23 liters = 3.4 US quarts = 0.85 US Gallons

Your spot on.......

Personally, I make all my own mixes in 18.927 liter batches.

(18,927 mil. )

***5 Gallons***

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post #1522 of 1525 Old 07-25-2014, 02:45 PM
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MississippiMan, thnx for help

Also theres not a single brand of paint that is needed for SF in my country so I'll have to improvise with other brand. Also here's a real problem with acryl metalic matt colors - no one seams to import them, only in hobby line bottles of 50ml

Only brand I found in my country is this: http://www.c-kreul.com/fileadmin/www...ic_faka_en.jpg
Altrough it doesnt say, there are bottles of 250ml but no silver metalic ones, just silver...
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post #1523 of 1525 Old 07-26-2014, 11:54 AM
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Questions about colors:

I've took picture of color samples from store and I need advice:

left part of samples, those matte with glitter are for metal with anti corrosion protection but water based. Would those be good? Also does that looks like desirable matte-glitter effect or do i need some shine like those to the right that have pearl shine (that "is" peral shine, is it?). those to the right are for interior wall painting and are water based. So am I looking for that left "sand paper" with glitter look or right "pearl shine" with glitter?

Also I need advice about Behr 1850 UPW Flat substitute - theres a interior wall paint "latex matte" whch is plain latex based wall paint and "briliant" matte which it top of the line wall paint which gives the matte "velvet" finish. For which should I go? As I understand Behr 1850 has "beige" color and not pure white like artic snow? Should I try to find that "bermuda beige" color or should I find pure pure white one?

Also I don't understand the "colorant" need to be mixed - isn't it more simple just to mix primer like Behr UPW into desired RAL that that "colorant" has? For example look at this color chart:
http://www.ralcolor.com/
"Naphthol Crimson" is most likely "RAL 3000-3003"
"Phthalocyanine Green" is most likely "RAL 6009"
"Ultramarine Blue" is most likely "RAL 5005"
"Cadmium Yellow Deep Hue" is most likely "RAL 1007"

so my question is: if you mix all 4 colorants shouldn't you get just another "RAL" color? As it's been said on forum, colorant in the end has somewhat brown color. So lets say its the "RAL 8017" "Chocholate brown" - in't it easier just to mix primer with that ral and not to mess around with that exotic combinations?
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Last edited by gesaugen; 07-27-2014 at 12:25 AM.
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post #1524 of 1525 Old 07-26-2014, 12:07 PM - Thread Starter
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If you have a interest in Silver Fire and all that it has to offer, then you must accept that the formula as listed is exactly what it takes to obtain those results.

Everything else amounts to pure speculation and a roll of the dice. Certainly you can and have every right to try to find other materials that might be more readily available to you, but frankly if such materials were available and easily accessed, we would have them up on here.

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"
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post #1525 of 1525 Old 07-27-2014, 12:26 AM
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well, this brand that I'm looking at is pretty much regional (south east europe) and it has been one of those brands that has successfully survived transition from socialism into capitalism so I don't think many ppl on this forum would use even if it is good (and it is, lot of people I've spoken said that this brand is better and more cost effective than international brands)

The point I'm trying to say is that not much ppl are researching projection screen colors in this area or are not posting on this forum so for ppl who do try to make their own SF screen is easier to order from internet (and pay way more that those paints would cost locally) than to experiment with colors from regional brands which may have same (or better) properties.
I would like to be one of those who do experiment with colors but I don't have any even basic stuff to do it and screen that I'm making is purely enthusiastic and will be made with a lot of collaboration of my friends that don't know squat about projectors, projection screens or paint mixing but do have works space, tools and will to help me

so, one great help tread would be colors research thread in which all aspects of more exotic paints like Rustoleum Metallic Accents – White Pearl / Sterling Silver would be tested and explained because as far I could have figured out, there are three properties of reflection: "pearl" shine (and "pearl shine" excludes matte), glitter (as in larger and a lot of reflective particles) and shimmer (as in tiny and not so much in concentration of a reflective particles)
from those three, as I've been searching, there are only shimmer matte colors and as as I've figure out, the desired "metalic" color is not completely matte but shimmer with slight pearl shine, something like this:
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/iipcache/121781.jpg

EDIT:
is there a mix for SF with "Dulux" brand?

Last edited by gesaugen; 07-27-2014 at 07:33 AM.
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