The Official Silver Fire V.2 Thread. - Page 52 - AVS Forum
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post #1531 of 1559 Unread 08-04-2014, 10:57 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by rpmfla View Post
I meant the JVC DLA-RS46. I have been watching a few on eBay.

Thanks for your responses to my multiple questions.
Well if you can get a good price on one, getting a JVC that has 1300 lumen output and 50K:1 Native is the one to choose.

Lamps are pricey though...and prior issues with Lens Control and Iris noise...and some original premature Lamp failure issues made it somewhat unpopular with stalwart JVC advocates. But all the same, as a JVC Pro product it received more attention to those issues and more quickly as well, and for all I can say they might have been addressed by the time any one model you get was produced.

It would still be well advised to choose wisely.

Good luck!

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post #1532 of 1559 Unread 08-04-2014, 04:58 PM
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having bit of a hard time getting the colorant to come out right. I was wondering if I could do the amount of colorant by weight instead of Milliliters. Wanting to buy this scale from amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/American-Weigh...ds=micro+scale

Measures in grams. Would this scale work? If so, what are the measurements of each amount of Liquitex coolant in grams??
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post #1533 of 1559 Unread 08-04-2014, 05:47 PM
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I figured I need a scale that does mg and not just grams so how about this Mg scale found here:

http://www.amazon.com/American-Weigh...words=mg+scale
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post #1534 of 1559 Unread 08-04-2014, 06:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by narhic_fd View Post
I figured I need a scale that does mg and not just grams so how about this Mg scale found here:

http://www.amazon.com/American-Weigh...words=mg+scale
To be wholly accurate you would have to know exactly how much a Milliliter weighs.

When first starting out, I originally squeezed a couple 4 oz tubes into a large container, then drew up 30 milliliters into a Large syringe. I then expressed (pushed) out any air from the syringe. After that all I had to do was push out exactly 10 milliliters onto a Gram scale, note the weight amount, then do the necessary math to know how many Grams a given amount of Milliliters were. Multiply.....or divide as required.

Then later, as I moved forward into making Colorant by the Gallon, I just converted Milliliters into Oz. and I simply used full or partial Tubes, knowing that in those amounts I had enough fudge room to make the Colorant be close enough I could correct any slight deviations.

Might just be easier if you asked me to send you some Colorant.

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post #1535 of 1559 Unread 08-04-2014, 07:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post
To be wholly accurate you would have to know exactly how much a Milliliter weighs.

When first starting out, I originally squeezed a couple 4 oz tubes into a large container, then drew up 30 milliliters into a Large syringe. I then expressed (pushed) out any air from the syringe. After that all I had to do was push out exactly 10 milliliters onto a Gram scale, note the weight amount, then do the necessary math to know how many Grams a given amount of Milliliters were. Multiply.....or divide as required.

Then later, as I moved forward into making Colorant by the Gallon, I just converted Milliliters into Oz. and I simply used full or partial Tubes, knowing that in those amounts I had enough fudge room to make the Colorant be close enough I could correct any slight deviations.

Might just be easier if you asked me to send you some Colorant.
i feel that would probably be the best option for me since my skill level seems to be lacking. ill send a p.m. to you with my address and if you need money via PayPal for shipping let me know. shipping would still be cheaper for me instead of buying more tubes. thanks mississippiman.
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post #1536 of 1559 Unread 08-05-2014, 06:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post
I originally squeezed a couple 4 oz tubes into a large container, then drew up 30 milliliters into a Large syringe. I then expressed (pushed) out any air from the syringe. After that all I had to do was push out exactly 10 milliliters
Based on this technique, can you tell me if the following is correct?

When using a syringe, if you draw in more than needed of a given color component and remove any air, all you'd then express is the required amount. Then when you rinse between colors you wouldn't add the rinse water to the mix since the exact amount of colorant is already in the container and not coating the measuring device. You'd just add the full 100 ml of distilled water at the end.

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post #1537 of 1559 Unread 08-05-2014, 06:17 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Adult Beverage View Post
Based on this technique, can you tell me if the following is correct?

When using a syringe, if you draw in more than needed of a given color component and remove any air, all you'd then express is the required amount. Then when you rinse between colors you wouldn't add the rinse water to the mix since the exact amount of colorant is already in the container and not coating the measuring device. You'd just add the full 100 ml of distilled water at the end.
Well, for the most part, yes....if you do actually and precisely dispense the Tints. Small Clear Plastic Cups work great. But note that whatever you dispense the Tints into must be "Zero'ed" out on the scale, or it's own known weight be subtracted. Knowing this, be certain to use as lightweight a mixing container as possible.

I use two identical containers, one for mixing, and one for "Zero'ing". It takes longer to draw up / measure and dispense each Tint than a scale will maintain it's figures. So I simply get my tint ready to dispense, place an empty container on the scale, zero it out, then place the partially filled container back on and add the next subsequent amount.

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post #1538 of 1559 Unread 08-05-2014, 06:33 AM
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Sorry, slightly different topic form nharic_fd. I wasn't looking to weigh anything. Just dispense the precise volume of each tint into the mixing container, discard the rinse water between colors, and add the full 100 ml of water at the end before mixing.

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post #1539 of 1559 Unread 08-05-2014, 06:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Adult Beverage View Post
Sorry, slightly different topic form nharic_fd. I wasn't looking to weigh anything. Just dispense the precise volume of each tint into the mixing container, discard the rinse water between colors, and add the full 100 ml of water at the end before mixing.

Well I understand. For me, weight conversion was simply a way for me to make sure that when I would use 4 ounce tubes of Paint, that I could get very very close to my exact needed amount. One cannot depend upon the amount contained within each tube to be precise each time. I have found some to be overfilled, while others were unconscionably short. I could Weigh a empty Rinsed Tube, then a "New" tube and know immediately if I needed to dispense via weight.

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post #1540 of 1559 Unread 08-08-2014, 11:15 AM
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Behr 1850 no longer available. Options?

I have gradually gathered all of the components for Silver Fire v.2.5. I just got back from 2 Home Depots and they both told me the Behr 1850 UPW Flat is discontinued. What can I substitute?

I do have some Gesso so could try that (thinned of course) but I wanted to ask for options first.

Thanks.
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post #1541 of 1559 Unread 08-08-2014, 05:50 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rpmfla View Post
I have gradually gathered all of the components for Silver Fire v.2.5. I just got back from 2 Home Depots and they both told me the Behr 1850 UPW Flat is discontinued. What can I substitute?

I do have some Gesso so could try that (thinned of course) but I wanted to ask for options first.

Thanks.
Please...no Gesso

Behr 1750 Flat
Glidden Premium Flat White
.....almost any premium Flat white.


But no Gesso.

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post #1542 of 1559 Unread 08-08-2014, 06:12 PM
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Quote:
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Please...no Gesso

Behr 1750 Flat
Glidden Premium Flat White
.....almost any premium Flat white.


But no Gesso.
So, no Gesso?

Ok, back to Home Depot tomorrow.

Thanks for the response.
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post #1543 of 1559 Unread 08-09-2014, 07:05 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rpmfla View Post
So, no Gesso?

Ok, back to Home Depot tomorrow.

Thanks for the response.
Your (No Gesso) welcome.

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post #1544 of 1559 Unread 08-12-2014, 06:52 AM
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Well, I was a bit nervous about trying the Silver Fire 2.5 on my electric screen so instead I decided to test it out on the old sheet of WilsonArt Designer White (5'X10') that I used to use as my screen in the center room in my house. I had never used an HVLP sprayer before. I purchased the Wagner Control Spray Max along with the Detail Front End Kit.

Some difficulties/issues to look out for if you are a newb like me..

1. To me the hardest part of following the Silver Fire recipe was measuring liquids that aren't very "liquidy" like the acrylic paint. I think weight would be much easier to use than fluid measures since it really isn't that fluid when it comes out of the tubes. Put a little container on my scale and zero it out...add x amount of red, zero again...etc. Dealing with all of the residue on the measuring containers made accuracy difficult.

2. I'd recommend practicing with the sprayer if you have never done it before. It is pretty simple to use, but I did manage to stumble over the plastic on the floor and the hose a couple of times. Moving side to side, trying to spray a 10' wide panel with an even light coat from 14" away, overlapping each "row" about the same amount, is a bit of a challenge.

3. In my opinion, Silver Fire needs as flat a surface as possible. When I remounted my painted laminate after about a year of being rolled up in the garage, the bottom and top curled back toward the wall a bit and that was noticeable in scenes where the screen was filled with one color. This is not a negative about SF, but more of a rule of thumb for any quality projection surface. I am still undecided as to whether I'll try this on my electric screen since it is not tab tensioned and there is some curl at the sides.

Anyway, the spraying went well and the sheet looked cool...like Silver Fire. I put it up in my central room just to see how it looked. This room is actually horrible as a theater space...white walls, low white ceiling, and shiny white tiled floor. It was early evening by the time I felt the laminate was dry enough to mount, so it was a dim environment but by no stretch dark like a home theater should be.

In my opinion, given it was a trial run with new materials and equipment, the results were amazing. Since I went with (approximately due to acrylic measuring difficulties) version 4.0, the darks were actually close to black. This is really significant since there is a lot of ambient light in that room. But, what I noticed more than that was how vibrant the colors were. Just gorgeous. Sorry, no pics of the movie.

I took the panel down the next day and it is rolled up in my garage again since it was only a test and I'm not going to use that room as the theater. I will probably try spraying the electric screen I have, but haven't decided yet whether I'll take it down and do it in the garage or to do like MM in his other thread and put a lot of plastic up.

[When I had my laminate screen up in the past I came up with what I feel was an elegant way to "hang" it on the wall. I used a jigsaw to cut an angled slot in two 6" wide 6 ' long boards. Then I mounted the boards vertically on the wall about 9' apart. I then slid the sheet into the slots at each end and I had an easy, slightly curved (like the new tvs!) projection screen that actually looked nice when not in use. It was simple and elegant. The accepted downside was that I left off any black borders as that would detract from the minimalist aesthetic.]

Last edited by rpmfla; 08-12-2014 at 06:59 AM. Reason: added pics
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post #1545 of 1559 Unread 08-12-2014, 07:37 AM - Thread Starter
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rpmfla,

That all sounds great. Glad you got the Colorant measured out right. (
narhic_fd....how are you doing so far...? )

But
I strongly suggest that if it turns out you do paint the Electric Screen that you paint the screen in the location it will be, because it will need to stay extracted while curing....and there will be less chance of bugs and debris.

If you do not absolutely need a Retractable, consider using SINTRA, or making a Fixed Screen from Flexi-White.

I hate the idea of the edges curling spoiling what otherwise would be a excellent screen you and everyone else will judge by not only how good it looks under projected light, but how good it looks simply hanging out with you and all your friends.


......and you know they will be looking.


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post #1546 of 1559 Unread 08-12-2014, 08:37 AM
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Quote:
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rpmfla,
...I strongly suggest that if it turns out you do paint the Electric Screen that you paint the screen in the location it will be, because it will need to stay extracted while curing....and there will be less chance of bugs and debris.

If you do not absolutely need a Retractable, consider using SINTRA, or making a Fixed Screen from Flexi-White.

I hate the idea of the edges curling spoiling what otherwise would be a excellent screen you and everyone else will judge by not only how good it looks under projected light, but how good it looks simply hanging out with you and all your friends.

How long would I need to keep it down to cure?

Yes, I do intend to stick with an electric screen for now. The edges curling issue was why in a separate thread I asked you if I could increase the black edging area. If I could blacken a few more inches the curled portion would not be used for the image.
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post #1547 of 1559 Unread 08-12-2014, 09:24 AM - Thread Starter
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How long would I need to keep it down to cure?
48 hours under good drying condidtions.....but the longer the better.

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post #1548 of 1559 Unread 08-12-2014, 09:46 AM
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48 hours under good drying condidtions.....but the longer the better.
That is something else I experienced that I forgot to mention in my previous post...I am in Florida and it was hot and humid in my un-air conditioned garage. The duster coats seemed to dry in about 45 minutes and the thicker coats needed 1-1.25 hours. I even had a large fan blowing on it.

So obviously temp and humidity effect drying time.
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post #1549 of 1559 Unread 08-12-2014, 11:45 AM - Thread Starter
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Heat helps hasten drying time, but humidity can drastically lengthen drying time. A Fan is always helpful no matter what.

Hor & Dry with Fan? Bam....15 minutes for a Duster.

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post #1550 of 1559 Unread 08-13-2014, 07:39 AM
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With the Wagner Control Spray Max along with the Detail Front End Kit, what should the two adjustments be set on? There is a dial on the unit and a dial near the trigger on the sprayer. I had them both set to max when I sprayed the laminate.

Did you ever come upon anything I could use to increase the width of my screen's black border? I'd really like to take that screen edge curl out of the equation.
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post #1551 of 1559 Unread 08-13-2014, 08:27 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rpmfla View Post
With the Wagner Control Spray Max along with the Detail Front End Kit, what should the two adjustments be set on? There is a dial on the unit and a dial near the trigger on the sprayer. I had them both set to max when I sprayed the laminate.

Did you ever come upon anything I could use to increase the width of my screen's black border? I'd really like to take that screen edge curl out of the equation.
The Gun is run wide open, the Dial on the back of the Turbine is set back about 1/5th a turn. That would be just over 3/4 full on. But experiment a bit.

The key being to get a smooth consistent flow that also matches your mix's viscosity, as well as your application technique and speed. A Duster should be exactly that...a dusting of small paint particles. Not a "Splatter"....not a heavy solid coat.

That is especially true when painting onto screen material. Far better to apply 8 ultra thin coats and eventually get a super thin but evenly covered surface that retains a high degree of flexibility.

One thing....check the surface texture after the 4th-5th coat. If it feels at all anything less than smooth, take a Large Fine Grit Sanding sponge and dry wipe the surface extremely lightly to reduce any sand-like texture.

As for stiffening the edges to reduce curl and add to the width of the Black Border, what has to be considered is that anything simply added to each side might actually aggravate the Curl. Now if you simply want to get the image area well inside the Curl, then I suggest very thin coating of a ultra dark Black Paint, in a Satin but sprayed on Duster-style. This needs to be done first, then Frog Tape applied over the Black and the screen sprayed afterward. Should you still get any paint crawl under the Tape, better it was the screen paint onto the Black paint than vice versa. You can touch up the threads of Silver Fire on the Black Border much easier using a fine tip, Camel Hair brush.

Using Paint so lightly applied you should have no issues whatsoever as far as retracting the screen when needed. The only other suggestion being to first Tape off the inside edge of where you want the Black Border to be, paint the Screen, then apply ProtoStar tape "very carefully" to the surface, taking care to not wrinkle or stretch it in any way. It is a very thin, flexible tape, so it should roll up into the Screen's Housing without impeding that process.
http://www.fpi-protostar.com/hitack.htm

It comes in 1-5/8" width, which should be ample for you to use to ass just enough the increase you side masking area within the limits of your screen's formatting. a 120" diagonal should measure 59" x 105" viewable (...but some Mfg screens can & do vary....) If you used the Tape to remove 3/4" from each side you only lose 1/2" off the top and bottom. A side benefit might be that the ProtoStar actually stiffens the edges a bit, but that's purely hopeful conjecture there.

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post #1552 of 1559 Unread 08-13-2014, 01:52 PM
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MM -- I see now that Liquitex Silver has been removed from the main post with a stronger push towards the Rustoleum. I'm still a bit out from paint day (have time) and already have all the Liquitex Silver I got during a sale sometime back. Is the Rustoleum silver difference truly noticeable on that switch alone?
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post #1553 of 1559 Unread 08-13-2014, 07:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Medisinyl View Post
MM -- I see now that Liquitex Silver has been removed from the main post with a stronger push towards the Rustoleum. I'm still a bit out from paint day (have time) and already have all the Liquitex Silver I got during a sale sometime back. Is the Rustoleum silver difference truly noticeable on that switch alone?
The Rust Oleum is a Darker paint with more Mica content. It does create a more high performance mix, but there is nothing wrong at all with the Liquitex.

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post #1554 of 1559 Unread 08-17-2014, 06:18 PM
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Mississippiman, I made a half batch of silver fire 3.0 today by halfing the ingredients. Did fine on reducing all the ingredients to half what is listed but apparently had a brain fart when adding required gold. instead of adding 1 oz of gold, which is half of the required 2 oz for 3.0, I added the whole 2 oz! What should I do?
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post #1555 of 1559 Unread 08-18-2014, 03:22 AM - Thread Starter
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Dude!

Only one solution...re-up the mix to full proportions. No other options are open to you.

Why make a 1/2 batch if you have enough of the ingredients for a Full one? Are you going to finally make a screen, or is this just more experimentation with strips? Even if it's the latter, I'd think you'd still want to have a full mix so you could continue on with your Screen build.

Anyway, that's what you have to do now, and I cannot see why that should be a problem.

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post #1556 of 1559 Unread Yesterday, 11:33 AM
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Hello everyone,

Inspired my MM and others who have shared info and experiences here I am planning to spray my own screen directly to a drywall. The drywall is in very good shape. It has two layers of interior semi gloss paint with roller made roughness to it. First step would be to sand the texture down.

I have had two fixed frame screens both of which had to return due to serious defects. Not something I would expect from a major manufacturer with the rates they are charging. It seems DIY would be a way to get a proper screen and having no one else to blame but myself It is also quite frustrating to install fixed frame screens and return them.

My set-up is in a family room with JVC X35 projecting from 15' on a shelf at 5' height. I would like to have the screen some 124" wide. Not decided on the height of the screen. Maybe doing a hybrid AR as a 16:9 screen with 124" width would be loo large for my taste. The lens memory of the JVC would suit this set-up nicely. The seats are at 11-12'.

The room is sadly with white ceiling and walls. Right hand side wall and the ceiling are very close, some 1' from the screen. I am planning to install some black cloth for the first 3' to combat the most severe reflections.

I am usually watching alone in some 80-90% darkness. There is some streetlight coming in which cannot be avoided. The windows in the family room are quite large. They are not right next to the screen, but next to the projector. I am using aperture at -15 when watching in darkness but opening the iris fully when watching with the family. During that time there is ambient light present and I would also like to have some lightning on as well. I am keeping the lamp on low.

After sanding I guess I should first make a few duster coats with primer followed by light sanding. Or could I jump straight using SF as I am planning to use dusters all the way? In case a primer is needed, would UPW flat be sufficient?

I would also need assistance in the version of SF to use. I am thinking to go 2.0 as I obviously need the gain but also gray base to enable ambient light viewing. MM wrote earlier that that 2.0 would be a good balance between these properties. Which other version or paint could be considered and why?

Many thanks for any insights in advance

Jake
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post #1557 of 1559 Unread Yesterday, 11:48 AM
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After sanding be sure to carefully inspect the surface area. That would be the time to identify any imperfections, however minor. Silver Fire will make them stand out. One handy trick is to shine a flashlight along the surface of the wall. Place your eye as close as you can to the wall and look along the beam to see if any depression (shadows) or protrusions (lit areas) are obvious. Sanding or filling may be needed.

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post #1558 of 1559 Unread Today, 07:26 AM - Thread Starter
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Even better, flood the screen with light from the side and using a step stool, view the surface from up close but at varying angles.

If you do find areas needing correction, post up again if you need further advice on how to accomplish a quick, effective repair.

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post #1559 of 1559 Unread Today, 07:38 AM
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Thanks you for the comments re sanding.

MM, could you recommend paint to use in this application. I was thinking today that could I venture to give HG version a chance. The screen width is practically filling the full room so viewing angle should not be an issue. However, I am not that keen on seeing sparklies
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