The Official Silver Fire V.2 Thread. - Page 58 - AVS Forum
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post #1711 of 1731 Old 11-18-2014, 02:07 PM
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Originally Posted by merkaba View Post
This might be a weird questions...what makes a screen 4k ready or not? I'm assuming a painted screen like SF would be fine because it's a flat surface with zero holes. Is it just the type of material used in a screen?
Ignoring the times it's used as a marketing hype word, a "4K" screen should be using only texture or perforation that is small enough to not cause visible moire or other artifacts. The idea as you've probably guessed is to retain the tiny details gained from the higher pixel-density.
A smooth screen surface, spandex AT, or non-shadowing flat/matte can all show excellent 4K.

Simple <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room, build in a day, takedown in an hour.
Easy $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
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post #1712 of 1731 Old 11-18-2014, 02:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ftoast View Post
Ignoring the times it's used as a marketing hype word, a "4K" screen should be using only texture or perforation that is small enough to not cause visible moire or other artifacts. The idea as you've probably guessed is to retain the tiny details gained from the higher pixel-density.
A smooth screen surface, spandex AT, or non-shadowing flat/matte can all show excellent 4K.
Thanks, this is exactly what I figured.
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post #1713 of 1731 Old 11-18-2014, 05:21 PM
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Originally Posted by little pebble View Post
Wow looking around and can't seem to find the complete recipe.. maybe since im in a different country... ohhh anyone package this stuff up and send international?

Americana deco art paints are available but no phthalocyanine green.

Are there any substitutes for this mix ? or a basic recipe i could follow and try?

mmm what to do, how can i compare if i haven't even tried the original.

get someone point me in a direction...
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post #1714 of 1731 Old 11-18-2014, 06:44 PM
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Ignoring the times it's used as a marketing hype word,
I'm shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here!

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post #1715 of 1731 Old 11-19-2014, 06:18 AM
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I have another question about SF. How does this compare to something like a Screen Innovations $3000 screen? I'm interested in overall comparison in picture quality. I am in no way considering purchasing the SI screen...I'm just interested in the comparison. Some of the images I've seen like the ones below of the SI screen are quite impressive. I've seen lots of people hate on the SI screens for whatever reason.





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post #1716 of 1731 Old 11-19-2014, 08:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by merkaba View Post
I am in no way considering purchasing the SI screen...I'm just interested in the comparison. Some of the images I've seen like the ones below of the SI screen are quite impressive. I've seen lots of people hate on the SI screens for whatever reason.

SF has significantly better brightness uniformity and slightly higher actual gain, SF should also have less shimmer/color-cast but won't get quite as deep blacks in the presence of ambient or direct light.

In the picture above, look at the white above the lego's head and compare it to the white on the bottom/right movie cover..that big difference in uniformity is showing despite an optimal setup..a more average throw-distance can make it worse yet.
This limited angle is good for fighting light but they push it too far in my opinion, DIY screens like SF are able to strike a better balance.

Many of the BD screens (even some of their "white" screens) push a blue tint..it can make some scenes appear slightly brighter but it also makes things appear colder and skin-tones can look sickly.

Animated content is easy to make look good in the presence of light. Darker live-action shots are the harder and more important part.

Simple <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room, build in a day, takedown in an hour.
Easy $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
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post #1717 of 1731 Old 11-19-2014, 08:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ftoast View Post
SF has significantly better brightness uniformity and slightly higher actual gain, SF should also have less shimmer/color-cast but won't get quite as deep blacks in the presence of ambient or direct light.

In the picture above, look at the white above the lego's head and compare it to the white on the bottom/right movie cover..that big difference in uniformity is showing despite an optimal setup..a more average throw-distance can make it worse yet.
This limited angle is good for fighting light but they push it too far in my opinion, DIY screens like SF are able to strike a better balance.

Many of the BD screens (even some of their "white" screens) push a blue tint..it can make some scenes appear slightly brighter but it also makes things appear colder and skin-tones can look sickly.

Animated content is easy to make look good in the presence of light. Darker live-action shots are the harder and more important part.
Thanks a lot ftoast. Super helpful. I appreciate it! I'm still trying to decide if I want to paint my SF on the drywall or make a frame. I like the idea of a frame with a zero edge-like look but am struggling to find a product to use on the frame to paint the SF on.
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post #1718 of 1731 Old 11-19-2014, 08:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by merkaba View Post
Thanks a lot ftoast. Super helpful. I appreciate it! I'm still trying to decide if I want to paint my SF on the drywall or make a frame. I like the idea of a frame with a zero edge-like look but am struggling to find a product to use on the frame to paint the SF on.
What size-range were you hoping to hit?
If you're going small enough (98"-100") almost any smooth 4x8 panel will work..or 110" top/bottom crop. For larger sizes, flexi-white is a popular choice.
There's also no reason not to just spray onto a blackout-cloth screen...or is there?

Simple <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room, build in a day, takedown in an hour.
Easy $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.

Last edited by Ftoast; 11-19-2014 at 11:37 AM.
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post #1719 of 1731 Old 11-19-2014, 09:21 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Ftoast View Post
. There's also no reason not to just spray onto a blackout-cloth screen.
Yeah there is....

Spraying onto BOC will always produce "Fuzzies" that need to be knocked off (lightly sanded) after the 2nd or 3rd Duster. No questions there. It's a strange phenomenon that seems peculiar to BOC Vinyl surfaces. Also, wrapping BOC is much more difficult than using Flexi White. And grossly more so than using any Solid Substrate.

If a Zero Edge look is desired, a Solid is best considered, followed by a Flexi-White wrapped Fame. And if Back Lit edging is even remotely considered...then using Sintra that overlaps a Frame by 1.5" is the only really effective route to take.

You can get that 'ol Zero Edge look...least wise every bit as much a Zero Edge look as any BD Screen, by painting a Wall, and then edging the screen using very small Quarter Round Trim painted with a ultra Black Satin Enamel Paint such as Rosco or Disney's Mouse Ears. You can't use a Flat Black because it simply looks ghastly, and with such a tiny Trim surface, you won't get much if any sheen from the Satin Enamel.

BTW merkaba,

SF applications are always better performing than the SI BD option when done correctly and mated with the correct PJ. That's been show many times. A distinct aspect of such being the intense, almost 3D like imagery and depth afforded by the translucency of the SF application.

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"

http://www.invisiblestereo.com
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post #1720 of 1731 Old 11-19-2014, 10:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Ftoast View Post
What size-range were you hoping to hit?
If you're going small enough (98"-100") almost any smooth 4x8 panel will work..or 110" top/bottom crop. For larger sizes, flexi-white is a popular choice. There's also no reason not to just spray onto a blackout-cloth screen.
I am going to do a 112" screen i think. So something like this?

http://www.amazon.com/Carls-FlexiWhi.../dp/B00ELN4BL6

Last edited by merkaba; 11-19-2014 at 10:24 AM.
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post #1721 of 1731 Old 11-19-2014, 10:33 AM
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Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post
Yeah there is....

Spraying onto BOC will always produce "Fuzzies" that need to be knocked off (lightly sanded) after the 2nd or 3rd Duster. No questions there. It's a strange phenomenon that seems peculiar to BOC Vinyl surfaces. Also, wrapping BOC is much more difficult than using Flexi White. And grossly more so than using any Solid Substrate.

If a Zero Edge look is desired, a Solid is best considered, followed by a Flexi-White wrapped Fame. And if Back Lit edging is even remotely considered...then using Sintra that overlaps a Frame by 1.5" is the only really effective route to take.

You can get that 'ol Zero Edge look...least wise every bit as much a Zero Edge look as any BD Screen, by painting a Wall, and then edging the screen using very small Quarter Round Trim painted with a ultra Black Satin Enamel Paint such as Rosco or Disney's Mouse Ears. You can't use a Flat Black because it simply looks ghastly, and with such a tiny Trim surface, you won't get much if any sheen from the Satin Enamel.

BTW merkaba,

SF applications are always better performing than the SI BD option when done correctly and mated with the correct PJ. That's been show many times. A distinct aspect of such being the intense, almost 3D like imagery and depth afforded by the translucency of the SF application.
A solid surface is initially what i was thinking, but was having a hard time finding one that would work for a screen as big as 112". I didn't really want to use multiple pieces. What is "Sintra"? I do like the back lit look for regular TV viewing...it's one of the main reasons why i'm considering building a frame instead of using drywall. I'd probably opt to turn it off for movies in the pitch black. At least having the option is cool in my opinion, and you can't really do it on drywall.
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post #1722 of 1731 Old 11-19-2014, 12:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Sintra comes sized up to 120" x 60", and it is specifically mfg. for painting Signs upon.

It's stiff, but flexible. Needs no priming. It lends itself to being applied to a wood frame that in turn can be made to easily hang onto a wall using a French Cleat system.

So where do you live? (City & State). I usually have no trouble finding and arranging Sintra or similar PVC sheets at the best possible price for members....if they ask "all nice-like".

LED Edge Lit Zero Edge Comeuppance - 110" diagonal Silver Fire 3.0

110" SF v2.1 - 3.0 Floating Sintra Screen w/ Backlighting (Videos too!)

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"

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post #1723 of 1731 Old 11-19-2014, 04:39 PM
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So i'm asking nicely is there anyway one can get this paint mix abroad?

anyone....
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post #1724 of 1731 Old 11-19-2014, 06:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Yep. It's done frequently, shipped out from the Good 'Ol USA of A

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"

http://www.invisiblestereo.com
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post #1725 of 1731 Old 11-19-2014, 07:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post
Sintra comes sized up to 120" x 60", and it is specifically mfg. for painting Signs upon.

It's stiff, but flexible. Needs no priming. It lends itself to being applied to a wood frame that in turn can be made to easily hang onto a wall using a French Cleat system.

So where do you live? (City & State). I usually have no trouble finding and arranging Sintra or similar PVC sheets at the best possible price for members....if they ask "all nice-like".

LED Edge Lit Zero Edge Comeuppance - 110" diagonal Silver Fire 3.0

110" SF v2.1 - 3.0 Floating Sintra Screen w/ Backlighting (Videos too!)
Wow, that is exactly what I want to do. I would absolutely love it if I could get some Sintra or similar for a 112" screen. I live in Danbury, NH but would certainly be willing to travel elsewhere in NH to get it if needed. I'm asking as nicely as possible right now...you just can't see me
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post #1726 of 1731 Old 11-20-2014, 01:26 PM
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I have a Sintra board that I have already painted with Silverfire but I'm not happy with the results. I don't think i mixed the paint right and my application wasn't very good. I'm wanting to redo it, can I repaint the same board? If so do i need to do anything to prepare the board for repainting?
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post #1727 of 1731 Old 11-20-2014, 02:46 PM
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I have a Sintra board that I have already painted with Silverfire but I'm not happy with the results. I don't think i mixed the paint right and my application wasn't very good. I'm wanting to redo it, can I repaint the same board? If so do i need to do anything to prepare the board for repainting?
Are there any particular things you can pretty confidently say how you messed up? Something that could help someone else avoid the same mistake/s?

I'm hoping to spray in the future and will probably try a SF5 at some point as well, I'd love to get it all right the first time..fingers crossed.

Simple <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room, build in a day, takedown in an hour.
Easy $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.

Last edited by Ftoast; 11-20-2014 at 02:50 PM.
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post #1728 of 1731 Old 11-20-2014, 03:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Ftoast View Post
Are there any particular things you can pretty confidently say how you messed up? Something that could help someone else avoid the same mistake/s?

I'm hoping to spray in the future and will probably try a SF5 at some point as well, I'd love to get it all right the first time..fingers crossed.
I messed up the paint mix because I was excited and didn't take my time making sure i measured everything out correctly. The main thing i screwed up was adding a lot more of the colorant than I planned, I tried to balance that by adding more of the reflective base components.

When i sprayed i don't think i had enough overlap because there are distinct lines where the screen is darker and lighter. It is really noticeable when there is a solid bright color on the screen. I tried applying some more coats, that helped but i ran out of paint.

All my mistakes were lack of experience and not taking my time. The screen still looks good everyone who comes over loves it. I just know it could be better.
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post #1729 of 1731 Old Yesterday, 09:51 PM
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Colorant / Formula Questions (Outside USA)

Hello all! It's been awhile!
I'm loving my new Sony HW40ES PJ on my DIY silver/grey reflective cloth screen. But think this fantastic PJ deserves a top quality screen like the Silver Fire v2.5. Maybe a 3.0 hue for mixed use daytime closed curtains and dark room night time?

None of the listed ingredients are available here, so I'm hoping to create a reasonable copy (MM face palms and sighs "not again?") using locally available products. I do have extensive painting and color mixing experience and this HVLP rig.

My questions: are the 4 colorant ingredients meant to 'fix' the non neutral mix that results from the viscosity and reflective ingredients? Why aren't they used/needed in RS-MaxxMud?

I am starting with Beger Matte Polyurethane (water based) and Beger Matte 'white' Base A. This base is used for pastel colors and I believe it is more neutral than Bear UPW.

My 'silver' is a glaze based Nippon Momento Special Effect paint, called Cloud Pearl, tinted with lamp black to a color called CP182 Falling Star, about an N8 hue, but silvery and opaque. Lower right on this chart.


I think (hope?) this stuff is something lke the sterling silver and white pearl from the recipe when already combined.

If my assumption (note the first three letters...) on the silver/pearl is correct, I should combine:
1 part flat white
4 parts silvery cloud pearl
1.5 parts Matte Poly
1.5 parts water or more to taste

MM, any advice? So far am I ontrack for a Thai Silver Fire copy or a Thai RS-MaxxMudd? I guess what I'm really hoping for is some moral support, because I think the only way to judge this mess is mix-n-test, mix-n-test, right?

Little Pebble, I don't think shipping paint all the way across the Paciifc is going to be cost effective.

Then: Infocus X1, Sanyo PLV-Z1, Sanyo PLV-Z4, Epson EMP-TW600 (Pro Cinema 800)
Now: Sony VPL-HW40ES

Last edited by joesthai; Yesterday at 10:29 PM. Reason: Add chart image
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post #1730 of 1731 Old Yesterday, 10:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Joesthi

Shipping the Silver & Pearl paints already mixed, along with a 4 oz Bottle of pre-made SF Colorant is not that expensive. You supply the White / Poly / Water, and mix everything together.

As for the Mix above, all you can do is try...roll the dice and see. Personally, I don't see you obtaining the same results, because Silver Fire is based upon a balance between transparency of Color and masked Reflectivity, and a reflective substrate whose degree of reflectivity is dependent upon the depth of "Transparent" Gray chosen. Very specific types of Pearl and Silver are used....many are not suitable. You might get lucky though. I'm not there to overview the appearance of the components.

BTW....I've shipped to virtually every Country in SE Asia, also China, Australia, NZ, almost all the "nistans", Baltic States, Russia, the Middle East, Africa, SA, Europe, and Scandinavia. One Country is a toughie. Denmark. Outrageous Duties. Everywhere else, shipping via USPS International Priority Flat Rate gets'er dun. Average cost is $75.00 shipping for 3 US Quarts.

To date, after several years of doing such shipments, no refusals, returns, nor spillage.

I have restricted such endeavors to those with no hope of obtaining the needed components without quadruple the shipping cost, if indeed the suppliers would even consent to ship.

To quote James T. Kirk;
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post #1731 of 1731 Old Today, 12:23 AM
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Thanks MMan,

That'll be a solid plan B! Agree with USPS being best by far for shipping. I imagine you're aware of the flat rate medium box for $60, no matter the weight. Maybe you could PM the all-in cost if you have time.

Meanwhile I'll see what I can do with what I have. Luckily for me you have well documented the real thing, so I have lots of reference pics and posts. Thank you!

I May post up some progress pics if anyone's interested. Here is the space I'm working with, 104" 16:9, PJ ceiling mounted at 12'. Viewing distance is 13 feet once we slide the sofa forward. The tape is too see where 2.35 would get me, scrapped that idea already.

Cheers!

Then: Infocus X1, Sanyo PLV-Z1, Sanyo PLV-Z4, Epson EMP-TW600 (Pro Cinema 800)
Now: Sony VPL-HW40ES

Last edited by joesthai; Today at 12:29 AM.
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