The Official Silver Fire V.2 Thread. - Page 61 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1801 of 2249 Old 01-05-2015, 06:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by a4pat View Post
awesome to see MM's reply of "yes" as i bought this exact same base. I'm glad you asked the question and I noticed it.
Perfect, I'm glad I could assist someone else too! Thanks, MM!
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post #1802 of 2249 Old 01-05-2015, 09:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post
We considered MM paints as repalacements for the Liquitex Silver but found the metallic grains to be more pronouced as well as the base having a tendency to puch Blue.

If Rustoleum wasn't so much better, we wouldn't be using it.
not trying to push any buttons MM.... so what you are saying the paints are different even though MM makes the silver metallics for rust-oluem
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post #1803 of 2249 Old 01-06-2015, 06:42 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by little pebble View Post
not trying to push any buttons MM.... so what you are saying the paints are different even though MM makes the silver metallics for rust-oluem
No buttons pushed, just a wrong curtain chosen.

Ya got it backwards.

Rustoleum bought out Modern Masters, which then became a subsidiary of Rustoleum.

The formula "Rustoleum" uses when "they make" Modern Masters Silver Metallic uses a actual Metal content, hence the trend toward a more grainy effect. The object being to make the Finish "look" like metal.

Rustoleum Silver Metallic uses Mica flakes (mineral) ground to an extremely fine point. That is what makes it desirable for adding reflectivity without excessive granularity.

Ya gotta watch out...don't "paint" yourself into a corner !

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post #1804 of 2249 Old 01-09-2015, 06:18 AM
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My main question...what version of SilverFire should I use?

I'm getting closer! I'll be cleaning up and then painting soon. By next weekend I should be ready to hang the PJ (Sony HW40ES) and start working on the SF sintra screen. I still have finish work and some flooring to do, but all the dirty work will be done. This is my non-dedicated theater room. It will be used mostly for watching DirecTV, and movies, but kids will also be playing down there, poker is played down there....it's just basically a hang out area. The room is light controlled to a certain extent. The entire basement is on dimmer. The PJ room lights will likely be off most of the time, but surrounding rooms will likely be on and slightly dimmed. There are windows and a double door as well, but they will have curtains. The ceiling in the PJ room will be a dark matte grey, and the walls will be a slightly lighter grey (still pretty dark though). The rest of the rooms will have the same grey walls, but white ceilings.

Throw is exactly (or really close to) 15 feet
Screen is 60"x120" piece of 1/4" sintra
PJ is a Sony HW40ES


*EDIT*
removed all the pictures...

Last edited by merkaba; 01-21-2015 at 12:42 PM.
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post #1805 of 2249 Old 01-09-2015, 07:47 AM - Thread Starter
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merkaba,

Silver Fire v2.5 3.0 will be very suitable for your room.

But do yourself a huge favor and prime the Screen wall with 2 coats of a good sealing Primer, let it dry for a full day, then mount the Sintra and spray your screen "BEFORE" you paint out any of the rest of the room. That way you will not have to mask off the ceiling above the screen nor any surrounding walls. You can put some plastic around the perimeter of the Screen to accept your "run out" spray off the edges, but that would be all that is needed.

Afterwards, you just have to cover the Screen with plastic until you have finished painting the rest of the room.

That's how I would do it....so should you.

To quote James T. Kirk;
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post #1806 of 2249 Old 01-09-2015, 08:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post
merkaba,

Silver Fire v2.5 3.0 will be very suitable for your room.

But do yourself a huge favor and prime the Screen wall with 2 coats of a good sealing Primer, let it dry for a full day, then mount the Sintra and spray your screen "BEFORE" you paint out any of the rest of the room. That way you will not have to mask off the ceiling above the screen nor any surrounding walls. You can put some plastic around the perimeter of the Screen to accept your "run out" spray off the edges, but that would be all that is needed.

Afterwards, you just have to cover the Screen with plastic until you have finished painting the rest of the room.

That's how I would do it....so should you.
Thanks, MM! That's exactly what I'll do.
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post #1807 of 2249 Old 01-09-2015, 09:54 AM
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I know this is not really the correct spot to ask this question...but based on the calculator the Sony will do about 16fl at my throw distance. Is that too low for daytime viewing? Should i potentially move it forward a bit? What is the recommended best happy medium for a room like mine where there will be viewing with ambient light? I could potentially still return my Sony and get the Epson 5030ub but based on everything I've read I believe I'd prefer the Sony.

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post #1808 of 2249 Old 01-09-2015, 06:37 PM - Thread Starter
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Move the Sony forward to 12' 6" and sitch between Low Lamp and Normal depending upon the viewing conditions at the time.

To quote James T. Kirk;
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post #1809 of 2249 Old 01-10-2015, 05:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post
yes
Quote:
Originally Posted by a4pat View Post
awesome to see MM's reply of "yes" as i bought this exact same base. I'm glad you asked the question and I noticed it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post
Move the Sony forward to 12' 6" and sitch between Low Lamp and Normal depending upon the viewing conditions at the time.
Thx again, MM. Really appreciate the help.
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post #1810 of 2249 Old 01-10-2015, 05:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by merkaba View Post
I know this is not really the correct spot to ask this question...but based on the calculator the Sony will do about 16fl at my throw distance. Is that too low for daytime viewing? Should i potentially move it forward a bit? What is the recommended best happy medium for a room like mine where there will be viewing with ambient light? I could potentially still return my Sony and get the Epson 5030ub but based on everything I've read I believe I'd prefer the Sony.

The brightness figure on the calculator is notoriously wrong. You are better off finding a review that includes actual lumen measurements like ProjectorReviews.com and then simply dividing that figure (adjusted for gain of screen) by the square footage of the 16:9 image. That particular site usually also gives the change in lumens depending on zoom distance.

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post #1811 of 2249 Old 01-10-2015, 05:20 PM
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Originally Posted by merkaba View Post
Perfect, I'm glad I could assist someone else too! Thanks, MM!
I personally wouldn't use that white paint. It's a primer and base white combined. I've painted plenty from my kids coloring crayons on the wall
and that doesn't work as good as doing a primer coat, then doing a base white.

Use some sort of Killz, or Glidden gripper if the surface doesn't accept paint well.
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post #1812 of 2249 Old 01-11-2015, 05:36 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Debonaire View Post
I personally wouldn't use that white paint. It's a primer and base white combined. I've painted plenty from my kids coloring crayons on the wall
and that doesn't work as good as doing a primer coat, then doing a base white.

Use some sort of Killz, or Glidden gripper if the surface doesn't accept paint well.
You really need to know more about what your commenting on.

  • merkaba was wanting to replace the small amount of White used within the SF formula, not Prime or paint a wall. For that purpose, the Valspar will work just fine.
  • Primer / Paint combos "DO NOT" contain "Primer". They are merely re-badged paints that contain better quality components, a bit more Titanium in the Base, and have a higher amount of Acrylic. As such, they cover better....but they are never intended for nor stated to be for "Sealing" a raw surface.

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post #1813 of 2249 Old 01-12-2015, 06:51 PM
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well. I did it. SF v2.5 3.0.

I absolutely love it. I can believe how well it does with the can lights shining directly on the screen. I set up everything to watch the National championship after I sprayed the screen on the whole wall Saturday night.

here is a before and some after pics

have a Ben q 1080st projecting a 140in diagonal image
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Patrick
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post #1814 of 2249 Old 01-13-2015, 10:30 AM
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Looks great... very tempting to go this route.
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post #1815 of 2249 Old 01-13-2015, 01:28 PM
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Is there anything wrong with painting the screen in a garage instead of on the wall in my house? I don't think I could tie up the living room for that long with a 3 year old running around.
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post #1816 of 2249 Old 01-13-2015, 05:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kszach View Post
Is there anything wrong with painting the screen in a garage instead of on the wall in my house? I don't think I could tie up the living room for that long with a 3 year old running around.
If the Board is pre Mounted on a framework, and you have a fairly unobstructed route to the installation location, it's entirely doable.
Trying to glue a pre-painted screen onto a wall without smudging or scratching / rubbing the surface is tricky business...and not advisable for the uninitiated.

I myself painted at least 50-60 SF Light Fusion screens (Mirror Substrate) in a double Storage Locker (10' x 30') I rented for that express purpose. Painted them on low easels, and hauled 'em out to the given location on my specially built 16' x 6.5' Double Axle Trailer (Lying flat...wrapped in Blankets) Carried then in using new, clean Brown Gurnsey Garden Gloves. But....I always glued the Mirror directly to the wall...and another overriding reason...I hated lugging around my 32 Gallon 5.5 HP Compressor....

But along came Electric HVLP Guns, and I got over the concern of spraying On Site. I either used the Customer's Garage, or masked the room off with Plastic and did the job right where the screen was hung / hanging. Just not many were in Frames...until I started doing some Zero Edge screens w/Edge Lighting.

The only caveat to spraying a screen pre-mounted on a Frame is that you much make a run-out area around the perimeter of the screen's edges. Unless your planning to put Trim whose inside edges will lap into the screen area.

Spraying off a Drop off results in "Vortex-ing"...a swirling air pattern on the edge that prevent paint from evenly hitting the surface all the way out to the edge. What you wind up with is a perimeter whose edges do not have as much paint as the center....a lighter outside ring as it were.

Something as simple as 12" strips of 2 mil Plastic stapled flush to the outside edges and pulled taunt and taped to the wall gets rid of the worries.

Just be sure to include a French Cleat hanger system so that when you haul the finished screen in you can simply slap it into the wall.

To quote James T. Kirk;
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post #1817 of 2249 Old 01-15-2015, 01:02 PM
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Hi MM --

I am building a highly light-controlled theater.

No windows, dark walls. Screen is 130", with seating
10-15' from screen. Ideal projector is Sony VPL HW40ES.

Would you recommend Silver Fire or something else (light
control is again not an issue). If SF, what colorant?

Thanks much
DSQ
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post #1818 of 2249 Old 01-15-2015, 06:06 PM
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A note on the Rust-O-Leum metallic accents paints: They can be ordered currently from Lowes (not in stores, but ordered online for store pickup) and the price is currently about half of what Amazon is charging. Here's the catch: The minimum order of each variety is two quarts. If anyone wants to split costs, PM me and I'll arrange to ship the extra silver and white.
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post #1819 of 2249 Old 01-15-2015, 09:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrStrangeQuark View Post
Hi MM --

I am building a highly light-controlled theater.

No windows, dark walls. Screen is 130", with seating
10-15' from screen. Ideal projector is Sony VPL HW40ES.

Would you recommend Silver Fire or something else (light
control is again not an issue). If SF, what colorant?

Thanks much
DSQ
Just to fill in for MM a little..In a totally ambient-light controlled room SF NC (no colorant) can give a great 1.3gain screen that will also be able to restore some contrast/blacks if you decide to watch with a few lights on. If the cleanest possible image is desired, adding an extra 8oz or so of UPW to the mix will help the screen to disappear with the image.

A simpler/cheaper alternative that also fits a good room is just a simple flat/matte-white paint. That will disappear perfectly as well as give perfect uniformity and colors, BUT it won't help you if you have some lights spilling onto the screen and its brightness will be slightly lower. This can also be rolled on if you prefer not to spray.

MaxxMudd LL is another option..somewhat similar to SF NC but slightly more matte/flat and it has the option to be rolled.

Simple <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room, build in a day, takedown in an hour.
Easy $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
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post #1820 of 2249 Old 01-16-2015, 07:30 AM
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FToast --- Thanks very much. Let me ask another couple of questions:

About ten years ago I was helping my Dad put his theater together and took recommendations on the screen paint from AVS. We ended up doing a silver metallic undercoat with a semi-translucent white overcoat. What was that preparation called & is it out of favor these days? It still looks great on his wall and has helped a couple of budget PJs really excel. I ask mostly out of curiosity ... actually the under/over coat is a bit daunting to me as it seems very delicate to achieve a uniform and appropriately thick overcoat (he managed to pull it off, but is a more experienced spray painter).

Also, what is the perceived advantage of mixing R/G/B/Y to achieve a near-black for the SF colorant/darkener mix as opposed to just mixing in some pure black acrylic? Just curious.
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post #1821 of 2249 Old 01-16-2015, 08:48 AM - Thread Starter
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I'll take this.

The Screen app you mention was SM-MM (Silver Metallic-MississippiMud)
Metallic Silver/ MississippiMud screen intructions

That was the DIY screen app that first showed the potential of some degree of ambient light performance due to the use of a reflective substrate. Mirrors came next as "Light Fusion".

The natural progression was to then use a darker surface coating due to the greatly enhanced reflectivity from a Mirror. Silver metallic was added to the MMud. Then came Black Flame...and it's alter ego, Silver Fire. Upgrades to Silver Fire became necessary when larger sized Mirrors became unavailable. Hence all the "Versions" that have come along.

The Silver Fire RGBY mix is a carefully balanced dark...but translucent (highly diluted) additive. The individual components do not so much as "blend" together as the simply combine to exist as separate individual components that while creating a Gray shade, still individually reflect the light of their given color spectrum.

This allows for more gain from a darker mix when also combined with separate Metallic components such as Silver & Pearl and a slight amount of Gold.

Recently some have re-introduced the possibility of using Silver metallic under a Dark Top Coating, but unless that coating is very translucent, it's not really effective at all. a pure white base is just as effective.

In the case of the original SM-MM, the Behr Silver Metallic was rolled on, while the Top Coat was sprayed.

Remember this, the original reason for the SM-MM app was to have the balance between a bright white translucent top coat and the contrast enhancing aspects provided by a Silver metallic undercoat.

Nowadays, one can spray on such a SM undercoat....back then....when diluting paints with water seemed less than desirable, such was not possible using the gooey, thick Silver metallic paints.

To quote James T. Kirk;
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Last edited by MississippiMan; 01-16-2015 at 08:53 AM.
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post #1822 of 2249 Old 01-16-2015, 09:56 AM
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MM -- Very Cool. THANKS
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post #1823 of 2249 Old 01-16-2015, 01:17 PM
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We should start an official "show me your DIY screen" thread. I'm always looking for photos to look at of what others do. Also PJ used, throw distance, quick info on screen/frame and how it was all made would be nice to include.
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post #1824 of 2249 Old 01-17-2015, 06:16 PM
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I heard there is a video of MM spraying a screen. Does anyone have a link to the video? I'm going to be spraying in the next day or two and wanted to get a good idea of the pace he used before I start.

EDIT
**Nevermind I found them...***

Last edited by merkaba; 01-17-2015 at 07:07 PM.
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post #1825 of 2249 Old 01-19-2015, 07:05 PM
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help with paint please

I'm using dry wall for my screen.

What shade of white (correct me if i'm wrong) is best used under sf?
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post #1826 of 2249 Old 01-19-2015, 08:59 PM
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Quote:
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help with paint please

I'm using dry wall for my screen.

What shade of white (correct me if i'm wrong) is best used under sf?
Smooth, white primer would be a great choice.
Good adherence, base-color, and smooth finish.

For maximum results, roll two coats and sand smooth with a bright lamp shining at a sharp angle against the wall. Then spray a final coat or two.
This will allow you to start with a beautifully smooth and even surface which will really bring out the best for your sprayed screen.

Simple <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room, build in a day, takedown in an hour.
Easy $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.

Last edited by Ftoast; 01-19-2015 at 09:04 PM.
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post #1827 of 2249 Old 01-22-2015, 07:42 AM
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Well I got my sintra up! Unfortunately I wasn't able to spray it before we painted...but oh well. I'll put plastic up. I'm spraying my screen on Saturday morning and wanted to make sure this all looks good one last time.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
SILVER FIRE v2.5 3.0


STEPS I PLAN TO DO
1) mix the colorant components seperately and set aside
2) mix viscosity + reflective components together using squirrel mixer
3) strain step #2 above using nylon paint strainer (should have consistancy of milk...add water if needed)
4) mix colorant in using squirrel mixer


NOTES
i will be using a few different size syringes for measuring my colorant
i will be using the "1000ml Electric HVLP Air Spray Gun Kit 600W Motor Paint Sprayer 1.0mm Nozzle DIY" sprayer from amazon








Last edited by merkaba; 01-22-2015 at 07:50 AM.
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post #1828 of 2249 Old 01-22-2015, 08:00 AM - Thread Starter
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You already installed the Edge lighting?

How far off the wall does the Frame set the Screen's surface?

Will there be any border on the edges of the Screen?

Yes...if everything is as it seems, somebody has gotten the progression of steps mixed up...perhaps out of necessity, but unfortunate nonetheless, considering how much time has elasped.

Not an impossible task, but one made more difficult for certain.

To quote James T. Kirk;
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post #1829 of 2249 Old 01-22-2015, 11:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post
You already installed the Edge lighting?

How far off the wall does the Frame set the Screen's surface?

Will there be any border on the edges of the Screen?

Yes...if everything is as it seems, somebody has gotten the progression of steps mixed up...perhaps out of necessity, but unfortunate nonetheless, considering how much time has elasped.

Not an impossible task, but one made more difficult for certain.
From the wall to the back of the sintra is exactly 1 and 9/16 inches. I am really digging the borderless look. If i decide to add one later I'd do it on top of the paint....but I don't plan on it right now.

We had a family friend painter in town who offered to cut everything in for us before the screen was up and ready....and we couldn't say no (because we suck at it). So we did it, and ended up just painting right behind him and getting it all done at the same time.
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post #1830 of 2249 Old 01-22-2015, 02:47 PM - Thread Starter
DIY Grand Dad (w/help)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by merkaba View Post
From the wall to the back of the sintra is exactly 1 and 9/16 inches. I am really digging the borderless look. If i decide to add one later I'd do it on top of the paint....but I don't plan on it right now.

We had a family friend painter in town who offered to cut everything in for us before the screen was up and ready....and we couldn't say no (because we suck at it). So we did it, and ended up just painting right behind him and getting it all done at the same time.
Well here's the deal. You are going to have to equalize the edges around the perimeter....make then flat so when you run off the Top/Bottom/Side edges there is no drop-off.

Is the edge of the Sintra unsupported, or backed all the way out to the edge?

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"

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