The Official Silver Fire V.2 Thread. - Page 64 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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Old 02-05-2015, 09:57 AM - Thread Starter
DIY Grand Dad (w/help)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eleazar View Post
I just wish that you were mixing that batch to send me some I'm dreading the mixing part of the setup
Who ya gonna call?

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"

http://www.invisiblestereo.com
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Old 02-05-2015, 10:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post
Who ya gonna call?
Ghostbusters! i got ya on speed dial in case i burn down my house or something while mixing. I'm planning to watch all your videos again before getting started.
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Old 02-05-2015, 04:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by merkaba View Post
Wanted to give a little more detail for other folks that are thinking about building a screen. I built a frame with 2x6's (which is way overkill...most just use 1x3 poplar). I notched all the pieces instead of using T and L brackets like most people do. I spray painted the edge of the frame with black spray paint and put LED lights around it. I bought a piece of 5'x10' 6mm sintra (pvc sheet). I used a plastic friendly adhesive to glue the sintra to the frame (no screws at all). Then I hung it on the wall...put plastic up, and sprayed it with Silver Fire. It came out great.

Frame (I kinda wish i added a support in the middle of the frame too):


Sintra:


Getting ready to spray:


Done with LED lights on:


Done with LED lights off:


And looks great with some ambient light. The canned lights are on full high on that room and in the room behind me:
Hats off. That's a great looking screen. Thx for the details about the frame. It really helps me as I am planning a similar screen setup.
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Old 02-06-2015, 08:54 AM
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Gentlemen,

I'm considering going down this route and was wondering if this HVLP sprayer would be adequate for the job. Got it at a pretty good price over the holidays. Thanks.
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Old 02-06-2015, 03:21 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by momswgn View Post
Gentlemen,

I'm considering going down this route and was wondering if this HVLP sprayer would be adequate for the job. Got it at a pretty good price over the holidays. Thanks.
Yes...using the Finish Sprayer (Black & Yellow Nozzle)

To quote James T. Kirk;
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Old 02-07-2015, 06:51 PM
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MM,
Thanks for the response. I noticed on the Laird Plastics website that they have a location in Houston and that the largest piece of Sintra is 5'x10'. The largest screen I could get out of that piece would be 60"x107" or 122" diagonal. So if I wanted bigger, I would have to paint on drywall or maybe a fixed frame or tab-tensioned screen. Any suggestion on a reasonably priced tab-tensioned screen on which to paint?
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Old 02-08-2015, 06:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by momswgn View Post
MM,
Thanks for the response. I noticed on the Laird Plastics website that they have a location in Houston and that the largest piece of Sintra is 5'x10'. The largest screen I could get out of that piece would be 60"x107" or 122" diagonal. So if I wanted bigger, I would have to paint on drywall or maybe a fixed frame or tab-tensioned screen. Any suggestion on a reasonably priced tab-tensioned screen on which to paint?
Not many "Reasonably priced" offerings that are Tab Tensioned.

Here's a 128" diagonal:
http://www.amazon.com/Tensioned-Proj...ojector+screen

Everything else bigger, and from other sources? $1199.00 +

But....unless a retractable is required, building a Frame and stretching out Carl's Flexi-White material offers you a hugely affordable option with almost no "reasonable" size limitations...all coming at a price much less that 50% of the Tab Tensioned.
FlexiWhite Projector Screen Material

It accepts paint like a champ.

And Ok...as far as a Fixed Screen option that can receive paint: Here's a 135"er.
http://www.amazon.com/Silver-Ticket-...ojector+screen

By installing the screen material "reversed" so that the White projection surface is on the rear, you can hang it up rear side out, spray on SF, let dry and then re-install the material face forward.

Of all the options, the Flexi-White is by far the most affordable and flexible in design, and of course, represents the true spirit of DIY'ism.

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"

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Old 02-08-2015, 04:52 PM
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Hi Pebble --

Got your PM, but my post count is too low to reply. I do have the extra jars of white pearl and silver metallic & will ship. Another way to contact you?
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Old 02-08-2015, 05:03 PM
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Hi MM / PMaxx / all -

The spray went really well. My first time working an HVLP sprayer, and I was nervous, but am very pleased with the results. I'll need to update with details and some pics before too long. Thanks for the help!
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Old 02-08-2015, 09:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SvtFoci View Post
Question before I spray. I was ready to do a MaxxMudd screen but found some old Silverfire ingredients from about 2+ years ago (Liquitex basics silver, gold, cadmium yellow deep hue, naphthol crimson,ultramarine blue, phthalocyanine green). Would a Silverfire yield better results to warrant it being used, considering I would have to buy few extra ingredients to make it work, or should I just go with the MaxxMudd? Also, is there anything else needed for the Wagner HVLP sprayer of Amazon that is $55, or just out the box usage is all that is required? I also have a 32oz can of rustoleum metallic white pearl and 32oz I got the other day for the MuddMaxx, also have a can of the Behr 1850 2+ years old and bottle of Ceramcoat pearl finish, 8oz.
I don't mind buying new ingredients or anything extra that is needed. Screen is about 75", light controlled room, PJ is the Optoma hd141x. Eagerly awaiting feedback.
Anybody?
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Old 02-09-2015, 06:11 AM - Thread Starter
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Sorry for the delay in a response.

Anytime one can use the newer Rust-Oleum ingredients they should do so, be it for RS-MM or Silver Fire.

That goes for using the Rust-Oleum Ultimate Matte Polyurethane.

Although mention is often made about some choices having been made because of availability, that is the least considered factor.

It's all about making improvements in the Mix by using better components. So use 'em if you can.

The Wagner listed on Amazon http://www.amazon.com/Wagner-0417005.../dp/B000DZBP60
............can be used "as is" with particular care to observe both distance and speed. With it's 1.6 mm nozzle, it lays down more paint more quickly, so speed across the screen surface should always be in the 3' per second range. Such thin "Duster" coats dry quickly, so it should not be too much of an ordeal if 7-8 coats need to be applied to effect complete even coverage.
(...but, if you haven't already purchased the Wagner, get this Puppy:
1000ml Electric HVLP Air Spray Gun Kit 600W Motor Paint Sprayer 1.0mm Nozzle DIY - - Amazon.com

Dusting has it's roots in the older S-I-L-V-E-R application, another extremely loose, wet mix that also depends upon a great deal of translucency.

There is no doubting that Silver Fire has almost infinite adjust-ability, so it is of obvious advantage when dealing with ambient light of varying degrees. It is ideally suited as being great for both controlled lighting in Theaters as well as ambient light that comes into play. It also excels at providing a real boost to Black levels on screen that come from PJs with less than Interstellar contrast specs.

RS-MaxxMudd -Standard- is a modestly performing Ambient Light Mix that has both the former going for it as well as excellent dedicated Theater potential. RS-MM-LL is almost always considered as being for dedicated Theaters and PJs with exceptional Contrast specifications...although it too can help improve the depth and quality of Blacks and Shadow detail to an extent that no Matte White surface can.

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"

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Old 02-09-2015, 01:37 PM
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Originally Posted by pb_maxxx View Post
burbs of Chicago hugh? what kinda of install are you planning? ...great place to be for all the necessary materials.
Can I ask where you are in Chicago? Sprayed out a sample today, if you are close look if you think its what we are shooting for? If not, I'll post pics.
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Old 02-09-2015, 08:38 PM
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I travel all over Chicago. I know where Bensenville is at. I worked many years in Wood Dale.
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Old 02-10-2015, 08:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post
Sorry for the delay in a response.

Anytime one can use the newer Rust-Oleum ingredients they should do so, be it for RS-MM or Silver Fire.

That goes for using the Rust-Oleum Ultimate Matte Polyurethane.

Although mention is often made about some choices having been made because of availability, that is the least considered factor.

It's all about making improvements in the Mix by using better components. So use 'em if you can.

The Wagner listed on Amazon http://www.amazon.com/Wagner-0417005.../dp/B000DZBP60
............can be used "as is" with particular care to observe both distance and speed. With it's 1.6 mm nozzle, it lays down more paint more quickly, so speed across the screen surface should always be in the 3' per second range. Such thin "Duster" coats dry quickly, so it should not be too much of an ordeal if 7-8 coats need to be applied to effect complete even coverage.
(...but, if you haven't already purchased the Wagner, get this Puppy:
1000ml Electric HVLP Air Spray Gun Kit 600W Motor Paint Sprayer 1.0mm Nozzle DIY - - Amazon.com

Dusting has it's roots in the older S-I-L-V-E-R application, another extremely loose, wet mix that also depends upon a great deal of translucency.

There is no doubting that Silver Fire has almost infinite adjust-ability, so it is of obvious advantage when dealing with ambient light of varying degrees. It is ideally suited as being great for both controlled lighting in Theaters as well as ambient light that comes into play. It also excels at providing a real boost to Black levels on screen that come from PJs with less than Interstellar contrast specs.

RS-MaxxMudd -Standard- is a modestly performing Ambient Light Mix that has both the former going for it as well as excellent dedicated Theater potential. RS-MM-LL is almost always considered as being for dedicated Theaters and PJs with exceptional Contrast specifications...although it too can help improve the depth and quality of Blacks and Shadow detail to an extent that no Matte White surface can.
Thanks MM, but have few more questions. Should I smooth sand the current screen I have and put primer on it before spraying, I rolled on the current paint, or should I make a frame for the BOC I have and spray that? I could also get the white melamine board and pain that. I already have the Wagner sprayer for $55, so that will have to be used.
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Old 02-10-2015, 09:05 AM
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Can someone reply to the reason for possibly adding the 6 ounces of white to the mix. I have about 5qts of 3.0 V2.5 ready to go, but since I have extra, i might do another sample before I spray the sintra just to compare.
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Old 02-10-2015, 09:08 AM
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A short report on my painting experience.

Disclaimer: This is not advice, just information. If you want advice, listen to MississippiMan (and FToast, PBMaxx) who has painted hundreds (thousands?) of screens. I've painted one.

My substrate is a 5x10 sheet of 1/2 inch MDF special ordered from McCoys lumber. The first one arrived having been stabbed and driven over with a fork lift, walked on, banged up, etc. The stock manager was not happy. I explained the intended purpose, and the replacement board arrived very carefully babied, with protective cardboard, etc. The panel is inset into a surrounding double layer of sheet rock so that it is flush. It is screwed around the top/bottom edges (counter sunk / predrilled) with little white paper "garage sales price" stickers over the holes. This will be covered with masking. Painter's caulk is used as a low-grade adhesive in the center of the screen, which is backed by a layer of sheetrock (notched trowel used to normalize height/distribution of caulk).

Several layers of KILZ2 (Latex) were rolled on with a 3/8 nap roller. There are no roller edges visible. I really wish I had used the "best" microfiber rollers rather than the "better" -- there were little pieces of fuzz that had to be picked out & caused real headaches -- this is the worst $1.50 I ever saved. This fuzz removal process continued into the spraying of SF and was an self inflicted wound. But, I do really like the light texture that the roller leaves. I think it helps conceal any minor imperfections, and potentially aids light dispersion. Photos here are of the painted board, including closeup for texture, and then with masking for the SF spray application.

More to follow in next posts.
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Old 02-10-2015, 09:16 AM
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Now, some description of my mix. Considering that a major benefit of / rationale for the SF mix is contrast enhancement in the face of ambient light, I asked around if it was where I should be looking for a fully light controlled theater. FToast suggested that a pure white screen could be OK, or that SF with no colorant was an option. MM states in the opening post that a dedicated theater can do well with a 1.5 mix, or thereabouts. FToast also suggested that extra white could be added to the base mix. This is how I initially decided to go, SF v2.5 NC, with an extra 8oz of UPW. In the photos here, you can see my supplies (had already purchased colorant mix paints, but returned them), a mixed SF batch, a sample board of the paint mix, and test projections onto that board. From left to right, the sample board is: drywall mix, unfinished sheetrock, KILZ2, and SF.
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Last edited by DrStrangeQuark; 02-10-2015 at 09:59 AM. Reason: Added image of sample board in white light / Fixed typo
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Old 02-10-2015, 09:44 AM
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Continuing ...

I was surprised in plain light how dark the SF mix was. I brought my wife in to look at projected images, without disclosing the finish designations of the sample panel. (Note the PJ is very low end: a 10+ year old hand-me-down VGA DLP). She appreciated the blacks in the SF (and the advantage was greater when opening a door or adding some competition from a flashlight), but found the whites too dark overall, and asked if there were in-between options. I agreed, and decided to add some extra white to the mix. This amounted to an extra 8oz of white pearl, for a total of 28 (most of the jar), and another 8 or 12 oz (my notes/memory are a bit fuzzy on this, but again, most of the can, for let's say 30 oz total) of the UPW. The result was notably lighter, and is what I decided to apply to the screen.

Again, this is not advice, just one person's experience for application in a highly light controlled theater. All together, the recipe I adopted for SF v2.5 NCWB (that's "No Colorant" and "White Boost" or "Wanton Blasphemy", according to taste) was this:

28 oz Filtered Water (including rinse water)
28 oz Rustoleum Metallic Accents White Pearl
20 oz Rustoleum Metallic Accents Sterling Silver
16 oz Rustoleum Ultimate Poly Matte
30 oz Behr Ultra Pure White Matte 1750
3 TBSP (1.5 oz) Liquitex Basics Gold

All was power mixed and filtered through a nylon strainer. Application was with an air powered HVLP sprayer, with alternating horizontal/vertical bands. Photos below of the first spray pass, and some of the disaster I was dealing with cleaning up "fuzzies". Some of these were (I believe) left over from the roller and some (perhaps?) little bumps and imperfections seemed to be intrinsic to the spray process. Once a coat was dry, I was able to knock them out with a paper towel, and the situation improved dramatically (but not entirely) after several coats. You can see the marking that this clean up process left on the screen in an early coat. The experts can tell you how to avoid this hassle. However, all's well that ends well, and subsequent coats were able to mask all the troubles underneath. Wrapping up in one more post ...
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Old 02-10-2015, 09:54 AM
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Last photos here are of the beautiful, uniform light silver screen, with masking removed, and then of some projected images. The final sprayed finish ended up quite clean. It was something like 6 sprayed coats. (I had some last VERY light knock-down to do with a paper towel, but waited 2-3 weeks to try this after the last coat really cured and was mostly very gentle).

Again, this is a super low-end projector by today's standards (early 2000's vintage VGA DLP BenQ), but the results are still most impressive to me. As a "side note", the off-axis performance is incredible, even from a straight side-on view.

Thanks once more to MM and FToast, and good luck to all screen DIYers!
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Old 02-10-2015, 11:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kubbie View Post
Can someone reply to the reason for possibly adding the 6 ounces of white to the mix. I have about 5qts of 3.0 V2.5 ready to go, but since I have extra, i might do another sample before I spray the sintra just to compare.
I noticed some sparklies on my SF screen that were a bit bothersome. I also didn't mix it properly from the start. So i was fixing other issues as well. I ended up adding white to fix it. Some people can't see it and or aren't bothered by it...and if mixed properly from the start it may not have been an issue. I don't see a reason for you to change anything unless you spray it and aren't happy with it. You'll have plenty left and can add it later if needed.
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Old 02-10-2015, 11:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrStrangeQuark View Post
Last photos here are of the beautiful, uniform light silver screen, with masking removed, and then of some projected images. The final sprayed finish ended up quite clean. It was something like 6 sprayed coats. (I had some last VERY light knock-down to do with a paper towel, but waited 2-3 weeks to try this after the last coat really cured and was mostly very gentle).

Again, this is a super low-end projector by today's standards (early 2000's vintage VGA DLP BenQ), but the results are still most impressive to me. As a "side note", the off-axis performance is incredible, even from a straight side-on view.

Thanks once more to MM and FToast, and good luck to all screen DIYers!
Awesome job. I ended up using about 32oz of white too....except I made a mistake and added all 7oz of colorant instead of the 3oz i was supposed to add. I'm quite happy with my results too.
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Old 02-10-2015, 11:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrStrangeQuark View Post
Last photos here are of the beautiful, uniform light silver screen, with masking removed, and then of some projected images. The final sprayed finish ended up quite clean. It was something like 6 sprayed coats. (I had some last VERY light knock-down to do with a paper towel, but waited 2-3 weeks to try this after the last coat really cured and was mostly very gentle).

Again, this is a super low-end projector by today's standards (early 2000's vintage VGA DLP BenQ), but the results are still most impressive to me. As a "side note", the off-axis performance is incredible, even from a straight side-on view.

Thanks once more to MM and FToast, and good luck to all screen DIYers!
Well done. Looking great!
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Old 02-11-2015, 09:43 PM
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I'm still in the proses of doing my screen and was wondering is there anything more to do after spraying. the reason being i test sprayed some n8 rubbed it back with 800and it was smooth to the hand and eye. Then applied the final coats and the finish looks good to the eye but is brittle to the hand. Is this normal finish or should it be as smooth as the unpainted surface.
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Old 02-11-2015, 10:18 PM
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By "brittle to the hand", do you mean it feels like very fine sandpaper or do you mean something else?

Simple <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room, build in a day, takedown in an hour.
Easy $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
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Old 02-12-2015, 05:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Ftoast View Post
By "brittle to the hand", do you mean it feels like very fine sandpaper or do you mean something else?

yeah i guess it could feel like fine sandpaper
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Old 02-12-2015, 07:18 AM
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While the duster method does naturally result in a very fine texture,it's usually fine enough for people to describe it as feeling smooth I believe.
That texture looks perfectly alright with flat/matte but adding metallic causes it to visually stand out as grain or visual-noise if the texture is large/rough enough, and it doesn't take much.
Good job both taking the time to test and then question, this probably saved you a bit of money and re-do time.

MM should be able to sort out the cause, but getting some things out of the way first can't hurt:

During your test, was the N8 thinned down (watered down) to the same thickness recommended for SF?

What size needle were you using with the sprayer?

Simple <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room, build in a day, takedown in an hour.
Easy $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
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Old 02-12-2015, 07:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post
(...but, if you haven't already purchased the Wagner, get this Puppy:
1000ml Electric HVLP Air Spray Gun Kit 600W Motor Paint Sprayer 1.0mm Nozzle DIY - - Amazon.com
Anyone know where to buy a hose extension for this sprayer or make one work with a little engineering? I am not a professional sprayer like MM, and with a short 65" hose I could see myself not being very coordinated with it.

Homedepot has this one on sale for $95, I like that it has a 20' hose, but I have read about the wagner's and their plastic nozzle components.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Wagner-Pa...specifications
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Old 02-12-2015, 09:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by poormonkey View Post
Anyone know where to buy a hose extension for this sprayer or make one work with a little engineering? I am not a professional sprayer like MM, and with a short 65" hose I could see myself not being very coordinated with it.

Homedepot has this one on sale for $95, I like that it has a 20' hose, but I have read about the wagner's and their plastic nozzle components.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Wagner-Pa...specifications
For my rig I spliced (using a interior Shim section) a 20' Wagner hose with a 15' Earlex / Graco hose.

You should consider getting a Earlex 2901 w/ 1 mm Needle accessory. 15' is usually enough, but Earlex can supply you with a Wagner Control Spray Max hose....because Earlex now owns the Wagner brand.

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"

http://www.invisiblestereo.com
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Old 02-14-2015, 09:37 AM
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I am looking into setting up our basement home theater. Thanks to threads like this one and others, we were encouraged to get an Epson 7230 that is currently being used in the living room instead of investing in a flat screen TV. I have attached some screenshots of the Epson 7230 being used in the living room and projected directly on the wall (light beige/Mautz Paints). The image size is roughly 48" high x 80" wide and around 92" diagonal, projected from around 9ft away which is adequate for us.

In the basement theater/family room, we will likely move up to an Epson 2000 or Epson 2030 (if pricing is favorable) and the 7230 might be moved to the master bedroom. The basement theater will be right below the living room and the master bedroom will be right above. All three rooms have windows on the same side (direct east facing windows). As can be seen in the sample images, the Minnie Mouse was taken during daytime (around ~11:30am) with curtains drawn (these are not blackout curtains - just sheers and "regular" curtains").

To help with ambient light and the image getting washed out due, I am considering getting a motorized screen and paint it with the Silver Fire (I am thinking of following the process shown by MississipiMan here Painting Onto A 106" Tab Tensioned Screen with Silver Fire v2.5 4.0 ) and the paint mix discussed in this thread. Would appreciate any input on this screen as the starting point: http://www.frys.com/product/6745425


I have seen other threads where screens from other, more expensive brands are recommended - however, due to budget I am considering the above route (buy a basic screen and enhance it with the DIY paint here), especially since I am not sure how much better the more expensive brands might be considering the price difference? I am reasonably handy and should be able to follow the steps in both this and the other thread linked.

Thanks for any input.
-Topper
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Old 02-14-2015, 11:11 AM
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Originally Posted by topperdude View Post
I am looking into setting up our basement home theater. Thanks to threads like this one and others, we were encouraged to get an Epson 7230 that is currently being used in the living room instead of investing in a flat screen TV. I have attached some screenshots of the Epson 7230 being used in the living room and projected directly on the wall (light beige/Mautz Paints). The image size is roughly 48" high x 80" wide and around 92" diagonal, projected from around 9ft away which is adequate for us.

In the basement theater/family room, we will likely move up to an Epson 2000 or Epson 2030 (if pricing is favorable) and the 7230 might be moved to the master bedroom. The basement theater will be right below the living room and the master bedroom will be right above. All three rooms have windows on the same side (direct east facing windows). As can be seen in the sample images, the Minnie Mouse was taken during daytime (around ~11:30am) with curtains drawn (these are not blackout curtains - just sheers and "regular" curtains").

To help with ambient light and the image getting washed out due, I am considering getting a motorized screen and paint it with the Silver Fire (I am thinking of following the process shown by MississipiMan here Painting Onto A 106" Tab Tensioned Screen with Silver Fire v2.5 4.0 ) and the paint mix discussed in this thread. Would appreciate any input on this screen as the starting point: http://www.frys.com/product/6745425


I have seen other threads where screens from other, more expensive brands are recommended - however, due to budget I am considering the above route (buy a basic screen and enhance it with the DIY paint here), especially since I am not sure how much better the more expensive brands might be considering the price difference? I am reasonably handy and should be able to follow the steps in both this and the other thread linked.

Thanks for any input.
-Topper
Top,
I am thinking about the same route, but with a tab tensioned screen as the non-tensioned screens will eventually develop waves. Tab tensioned screens are more expensive of course.
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